Ganondorf Patch 1.1.0 Changes (Good News!)

[WwwWario]

Finally Dorf recieved some great buffs.


...though, I'm still waiting for that Dark Dive buff :'(

 

[BOB R.O.B.]

Finally Dorf recieved some great buffs.


...though, I'm still waiting for that Dark Dive buff :'(

Melee Dark Dive when. Also the community patch notes say that Ganon changes are all found, but the Aerial Wizard Foot Shield Break is still up in the air. Was it changed to be better or does it still do the same high shield damage?

 

[WwwWario]

Melee Dark Dive when. Also the community patch notes say that Ganon changes are all found, but the Aerial Wizard Foot Shield Break is still up in the air. Was it changed to be better or does it still do the same high shield damage?

Yeah. His Dark Dive now is just so weak. It needs a good amount over 200% to kill most people from the middle of the stage. The punch at the end is decent, though.

As for the shield damage, I'm unsure. It always did a great amount of shield damage, so not sure.

 

[Z1GMA]

Fair doesn't kill earlier. It kills about 2% later than Bair, just like before (center stage).

Olimar now dies from a Gerudo > Dsmash at around 60% by the ledge if you've got some rage.

Bonus: We can SH AC Dair in the green structure at Hyrule Castle 64 by doing FH Dairs

 

[Shmeckie]

Did you get a chance to test the Wizard Foot? Because I've never got a shield break from it at all before and now I've already gotten a few post-patch. Something changed.

 

[MezzoMe]

@ Z1GMA Fair's knockback until now results unchanged, it's just the fact that knockback is calculated based on the damage after the latter rises so technically it kills earlier compared to the before-hit damage but remains the same for what concerns the damage after the hit.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

What changed, most likely, is that y'all keep trying to break shields with aerial wizkick now.

It wasn't in the data dump, and as far as I can tell, the only changes not included in the dump are projectiles, luma and IASA frames.

 

[TinDust]

Ganon is lookin fine

 

[Z1GMA]

Did you get a chance to test the Wizard Foot? Because I've never got a shield break from it at all before and now I've already gotten a few post-patch. Something changed.

No, I haven't had the chance to test it yet.

 

[Blobface]

Can confirm Wizkick shield damage buff*. It was buffed from 10 bonus shield damage to 15. In addition, Quake tends to shieldpoke less and directly hit the shield more, but I can't really confirm that. Fresh Wizkick + Quake is 40 shield damage now .

From what I tested Ganondorf's spaced F-air is safe on block when fastfallen (tested vs Needles, ZSS grab OoS, Captain Falcon Shield Drop Dash Grab, and Sheik F-air OoS, 1/4th speed in training). Ganondorf is secretly Sheik confirmed. While the higher damage would increase the shieldstun, it's also possible we got a landing lag buff on F-air.

*Right after recovering from a shieldbreak, your shield starts at 30 hp. Aerial Wizkick will instantly break it in this situation. 15 + 15 = 30.

 

[BOB R.O.B.]

Can confirm Wizkick shield damage buff*. It was buffed from 10 bonus shield damage to 15. In addition, Quake tends to shieldpoke less and directly hit the shield more, but I can't really confirm that. Fresh Wizkick + Quake is 40 shield damage now .

From what I tested Ganondorf's spaced F-air is safe on block when fastfallen (tested vs Needles, ZSS grab OoS, Captain Falcon Shield Drop Dash Grab, and Sheik F-air OoS, 1/4th speed in training). Ganondorf is secretly Sheik confirmed. While the higher damage would increase the shieldstun, it's also possible we got a landing lag buff on F-air.

*Right after recovering from a shieldbreak, your shield starts at 30 hp. Aerial Wizkick will instantly break it in this situation. 15 + 15 = 30.

If this is fully confirmed by Dorfologists then...Yes...so much power. Fear and Reverse Warlocks for all eternity...until next patch maybe.

 

[jmanup85]

Can confirm Wizkick shield damage buff*. It was buffed from 10 bonus shield damage to 15. In addition, Quake tends to shieldpoke less and directly hit the shield more, but I can't really confirm that. Fresh Wizkick + Quake is 40 shield damage now .

From what I tested Ganondorf's spaced F-air is safe on block when fastfallen (tested vs Needles, ZSS grab OoS, Captain Falcon Shield Drop Dash Grab, and Sheik F-air OoS, 1/4th speed in training). Ganondorf is secretly Sheik confirmed. While the higher damage would increase the shieldstun, it's also possible we got a landing lag buff on F-air.

*Right after recovering from a shieldbreak, your shield starts at 30 hp. Aerial Wizkick will instantly break it in this situation. 15 + 15 = 30.

I wonder if grounded wizkick does more shield damage

 

[King9999]

I think training mode needs a buff so we can do proper tests.

 

[Swoops]

*Right after recovering from a shieldbreak, your shield starts at 30 hp. Aerial Wizkick will instantly break it in this situation. 15 + 15 = 30.

So you're saying that it broke without the additional damage from quake? Pre-patch was 15% (bonus +10%) + quake 8% = 33 HP shield damage.

I'm still skeptical on the shield damage buff for Wizkick. At this point it could go either way. I think the DSmash and FAir buffs are nice little treats though. DSmash will probably be my go to punish now, and hopefully the FAir percent buff translates into practical pressure on shields.

 

[Blobface]

So you're saying that it broke without the additional damage from quake? Pre-patch was 15% (bonus +10%) + quake 8% = 33 HP shield damage.

I'm still skeptical on the shield damage buff for Wizkick. At this point it could go either way. I think the DSmash and FAir buffs are nice little treats though. DSmash will probably be my go to punish now, and hopefully the FAir percent buff translates into practical pressure on shields.

It was without the quake.

In addition, Wizkick + Quake deals enough shield damage for an F-tilt to shieldbreak. Reverse Warlock punch deals enough shield damage for an F-tilt to shieldbreak. Both do 38 Shield damage.

 

[Dark Phazon]

It was without the quake.

In addition, Wizkick + Quake deals enough shield damage for an F-tilt to shieldbreak. Reverse Warlock punch deals enough shield damage for an F-tilt to shieldbreak. Both do 38 Shield damage.

Does Air Kizkick destroy shields in 1 hit?

 

[MezzoMe]

It doesn't against shields with full healt

 

[Radical Larry]

Okay, with Ganondorf's buff on D-Smash, he's not the kind of character an opponent wants to rush up to near the edge of the stage anymore. Like literally, one mistake could lead to an early stock loss. That buff on D-Smash might let Ganondorf jump a tier because of this.

Rush in aerial, Ganondorf may use D-Smash. Rush on ground, Ganondorf may use D-Smash. The only real safe methods against this attack are to roll away or spot dodge, but seeing as how fast the first kick comes out...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Okay, with Ganondorf's buff on D-Smash, he's not the kind of character an opponent wants to rush up to near the edge of the stage anymore. Like literally, one mistake could lead to an early stock loss. That buff on D-Smash might let Ganondorf jump a tier because of this.

Rush in aerial, Ganondorf may use D-Smash. Rush on ground, Ganondorf may use D-Smash. The only real safe methods against this attack are to roll away or spot dodge, but seeing as how fast the first kick comes out...

One of the few moves in this game which knocks you the opposite way it is used. Has about as much range as dtilt, the move will be a bit useful now.

 

[MezzoMe]

More like he has a range between DTilt and FTilt so it's not bad at all when either spacing and punishing range-wise.

 

[Radical Larry]

More like he has a range between DTilt and FTilt so it's not bad at all when either spacing and punishing range-wise.

And thanks to its knockback changes (I think it's more horizontal?), Ganondorf can easily set up for a spike or semi-spike

 

[S_B]

Still want that grab range buff so we can bid farewell to "Dorfasauras Rex" for good...

 

[Opana]

I think dorf can ledge camp even better now with this dsmash buff, if he gets a stock lead in certain mus he can just wait the edge for a potential dsmash/cide. Vs even someone like Mario I could see this being viable, fireballs are fairly easy to power shield and he seems pretty lacking in range otherwise. Only thing that worries me is the first hit of dsmash on shield pulling them towards us, unsure if it'd happen but it could potentially put us in a position to be back thrown.

Glad uthrow has the same knockback, it's good where it is imo, we can follow their landing fairly easily while more distance gives them more room. We don't really need a kill throw imo, we have a lot of options as is and I think it serves more use as is despite what many others may think.

 

[WwwWario]

Can someone explain more about this Shield Damage? So apparently, his areal Wizard Kick + its quake now does 38 shield damage (I think?). How much health does a full shield have? 40? And does it have 30 after a Shield Brake?

 

[Blobface]

Can someone explain more about this Shield Damage? So apparently, his areal Wizard Kick + its quake now does 38 shield damage (I think?). How much health does a full shield have? 40? And does it have 30 after a Shield Brake?

Shields have 50 hp when full. After a shield break, you start at 30. Shields take the full brunt of damage (13% attack = 13 damage to the shield) along with any bonus damage (marth's shield breaker).

In addition, big news here. There don't seem to be any frame changes to Ganondorf, but he got something better.

Spotdodges and rolls were made worse across the board by 1-2 frames.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Can someone explain more about this Shield Damage? So apparently, his areal Wizard Kick + its quake now does 38 shield damage (I think?). How much health does a full shield have? 40? And does it have 30 after a Shield Brake?

Full shield is 50 I believe.
Edit: 'd

 

[S_B]

Spotdodges and rolls were made worse across the board by 1-2 frames.

I just found out about this.

I guess they listened to people complaining that the game was too defensive?

 

[Radical Larry]

Shields have 50 hp when full. After a shield break, you start at 30. Shields take the full brunt of damage (13% attack = 13 damage to the shield) along with any bonus damage (marth's shield breaker).

In addition, big news here. There don't seem to be any frame changes to Ganondorf, but he got something better.

Spotdodges and rolls were made worse across the board by 1-2 frames.

Alright, I'm just waiting for someone to put up a Smash 4 video with Ganondorf exploiting the dodges and rolls to his benefit...
While playing the sound Bender (from Futurama) made with his heartbeat (which was a drumbeat set).

Aside from that, so that I don't get infracted on anything (please do my request anyone?), has anyone noticed Ganondorf might have a little start up buff on Wizard's Foot, by at least 2 frames?

And has Ganondorf's start up and middle hitboxes on Dash Attack always had invulnerability frames? Because recently I did testing on exploding capsules and Bob-ombs, and noticed Ganondorf's Dash Attack just phases right through them. Always been in the game or something new?

Confirm or deconfirm? (And possible request please?)

 

[Blobface]

Alright, I'm just waiting for someone to put up a Smash 4 video with Ganondorf exploiting the dodges and rolls to his benefit...
While playing the sound Bender (from Futurama) made with his heartbeat (which was a drumbeat set).

Aside from that, so that I don't get infracted on anything (please do my request anyone?), has anyone noticed Ganondorf might have a little start up buff on Wizard's Foot, by at least 2 frames?

And has Ganondorf's start up and middle hitboxes on Dash Attack always had invulnerability frames? Because recently I did testing on exploding capsules and Bob-ombs, and noticed Ganondorf's Dash Attack just phases right through them. Always been in the game or something new?

Confirm or deconfirm? (And possible request please?)

I don't think so. If you want to test Wizard's Foot startup (or flame choke startup for that matter), you can run the two into each other and they should trade (make sure it's spaced correctly though, both can have blind spots).

As for Dash Attack, it's always been disjointed, but I've never been able to run into a bob-omb without taking damage. I might've just been testing wrong though. If you want to test for full body invincibility, Dash Attack into a Smart Bomb explosion.

 

[Radical Larry]

I don't think so. If you want to test Wizard's Foot startup (or flame choke startup for that matter), you can run the two into each other and they should trade (make sure it's spaced correctly though, both can have blind spots).

As for Dash Attack, it's always been disjointed, but I've never been able to run into a bob-omb without taking damage. I might've just been testing wrong though. If you want to test for full body invincibility, Dash Attack into a Smart Bomb explosion.

Well, I first stumbled upon the Dash Attack invincibility by accident when I accidentally Dash Attacked into an exploding capsule. Let's just say it was both scary and very "WTF" in the sense that I didn't take damage nor flinch.

EDIT: I just used 1/4 Speed on Training Mode (L Button to activate the speed) and I can confirm that around the first little air wave that Ganondorf produces, he has invincibility frames that allow him to actually phase through a Bob-omb. It seems to last around 1-3 frames, and I saw it activate from a faint gray glow when it hit the Bob-omb.

So this confirms my suspicions that Ganondorf's Dash Attack DOES have invincibility frames on it. It's just right after it starts up and activates. Like, not when it starts up but almost directly after, when the first air wave starts to appear. Test it yourselves and you'll see the same result.

 

[TinDust]

I think dorf can ledge camp even better now with this dsmash buff, if he gets a stock lead in certain mus he can just wait the edge for a potential dsmash/cide. Vs even someone like Mario I could see this being viable, fireballs are fairly easy to power shield and he seems pretty lacking in range otherwise. Only thing that worries me is the first hit of dsmash on shield pulling them towards us, unsure if it'd happen but it could potentially put us in a position to be back thrown.

Glad uthrow has the same knockback, it's good where it is imo, we can follow their landing fairly easily while more distance gives them more room. We don't really need a kill throw imo, we have a lot of options as is and I think it serves more use as is despite what many others may think.

I find very limited uses for up throw, at mid percent it still sends them too high for any good followups, but you could potentially ge t juggles. Usually the optimal throw is down throw since it is easier to follow up, and having a kill throw is good since sheilds are so strong. Yes we have flame choke but having another option to kill helps Ganon mix it up with maybr a really close up dash grab or something.

 

[Radical Larry]

I find very limited uses for up throw, at mid percent it still sends them too high for any good followups, but you could potentially ge t juggles. Usually the optimal throw is down throw since it is easier to follow up, and having a kill throw is good since sheilds are so strong. Yes we have flame choke but having another option to kill helps Ganon mix it up with maybr a really close up dash grab or something.

Well, I believe U-Throw is meant for a mind game and reads of the U-Air and U-Smash type. With the huge damage buff it got, it's better for racking up damage now in addition to performing mind games.

All of Ganondorf's Throws are optimal in their own sense. F-Throw is good for edge-guard set ups and easy damage racking, B-Throw is decent for (but obsolete due to D-Smash) edge grab KOs and follow ups to D-Air at lower damages, and D-Throw is amazing for setting up for Dash Attack, WizFoot, WizKick, Flame Chain, U-Air and F-Air (F-Air if you read a dodge). Yes, I said D-Throw can link into Flame Chain, but it's almost like F-Air, but you can still hit the opponent at lower damages as a follow up. You can also use Warlock Thrust after D-Throw and hit it relatively quickly.

But back to U-Throw, remember that it's not for the combo game, but for the reads to set up into the combo game.

 

[King9999]

I think Ganon's throw game is one of his weaknesses. Only f-throw and d-throw are truly useful. He needs a better throw range.

 

[GanonPawnch]

I think Ganon's throw game is one of his weaknesses. Only f-throw and d-throw are truly useful. He needs a better throw range.

I honestly think he needs a godly grab range to make him more of a grappler. And considering how strong shields are in this game, it would make him so much better over all.

 

[MezzoMe]

WizFoot, WizKick

I wonder which is supposed to be flying(guess the second)
Anyway, it's not about having every grab useful but rather having grabs able to answer to any situation, and I haven't experienced grabbing someone and not having the right throw to use.

 

[Z1GMA]

I think training mode needs a buff so we can do proper tests.

I always thought it'd be nice if you were able to enter trainingmode online with a friend to test stuff.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well, I first stumbled upon the Dash Attack invincibility by accident when I accidentally Dash Attacked into an exploding capsule. Let's just say it was both scary and very "WTF" in the sense that I didn't take damage nor flinch.

EDIT: I just used 1/4 Speed on Training Mode (L Button to activate the speed) and I can confirm that around the first little air wave that Ganondorf produces, he has invincibility frames that allow him to actually phase through a Bob-omb. It seems to last around 1-3 frames, and I saw it activate from a faint gray glow when it hit the Bob-omb.

So this confirms my suspicions that Ganondorf's Dash Attack DOES have invincibility frames on it. It's just right after it starts up and activates. Like, not when it starts up but almost directly after, when the first air wave starts to appear. Test it yourselves and you'll see the same result.

I've been able to only do this once unfortunately...

I have to sleep, attempt to do this a few more times.

Also out of sheer curiosity, how often does Ganon's Dair trip grounded opponents? Does it trip them after a few or is it just random?

 

[Blobface]

I think Ganon's throw game is one of his weaknesses. Only f-throw and d-throw are truly useful. He needs a better throw range.

I'd say Ganon has good throws. D-throw is a great combo throw and F-throw and B-throw both do a lot of damage and put people in a crappy position offstage, which Ganon loves.

 

[Z1GMA]

Tested Airwiz Shield Damage. It's pretty much the same as before.
If there's a change, it's very, very small.

 

[Radical Larry]

I think Ganon's throw game is one of his weaknesses. Only f-throw and d-throw are truly useful. He needs a better throw range.

B-Throw sets up for a U-Air, B-Air, F-Air and D-Air due to how far it sends opponents in medium to high damages. It's also got a decent amount of damage to it and at lower damages is meant for reading the opponent's next move and punishing it.

I honestly think he needs a godly grab range to make him more of a grappler. And considering how strong shields are in this game, it would make him so much better over all.

Ganondorf is supposed to have a grab game that punishes rush-in opponents. You shield the attack and grab it once the hitbox is no longer in effect (since shielding nullifies single-hit hitboxes), or you wait for the multi-hit attack to end before grabbing the opponent and punishing accordingly. Ganondorf doesn't need a proper grab range, he needs proper utilization of his grabs from his players, something I can prioritize upon.

I wonder which is supposed to be flying(guess the second)
Anyway, it's not about having every grab useful but rather having grabs able to answer to any situation, and I haven't experienced grabbing someone and not having the right throw to use.

WizFoot is the purple one, WizKick is the one with the better recovery (the flying).

I'd say Ganon has good throws. D-throw is a great combo throw and F-throw and B-throw both do a lot of damage and put people in a crappy position offstage, which Ganon loves.

U-Throw deals descent damage and makes the opponent either go left or right. If Ganondorf reads it all right, he can get a U-Smash, U-Tilt, U-Air, B-Air, F-Air, F-Smash, F-Tilt and D-Smash punish, and on the rare occasions, a Warlock Punch. I've been able to do this to opponents I've fought against and read.

Tested Airwiz Shield Damage. It's pretty much the same as before.
If there's a change, it's very, very small.

Actually, I'm going to have to deconfirm the change. The video that sparked the controversy over WizFoot aerial has a key flaw; Mario was shielding much earlier, causing the shield to lose HP before Ganondorf could land the attack; in fact, that's about the same amount of HP lost if you hold the shield AFTER all hits of Ganondorf's WizFoot aerial connect.

So no, it hasn't been changed at all. It is the same, just a misconception.