Data Ganondorf Hitboxes and Frame Data

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#1
Credits to SuperDoodleMan for most of the frame data.
Images compiled and edited by Standardtoaster.
"Hitbox System" format, method, and organization developed by Stratocaster.
All animated GIF's are at 1/3rd game speed.
Credit to Magus420 for info on neutral air and wizard's foot.


Jab

Total: 21
Hit: 3-5
IASA: 19
___________

Forward Tilt



Total: 29
Hit: 9-11
___________

Down Tilt

Total: 35
Hit: 10-12
IASA: 35
___________

Up Tilt

Total: 114
Hit: 81-83
IASA: 113
___________

Dash Attack

Total: 39
Hit: 7-16
IASA: 38
___________

Forward Smash



Total: 66
Charge frame: 10
Hit: 20-24
IASA: 60
___________

Down Smash

Total: 49
Charge frame: 14
Hit: 19-22, 29-32
IASA: 47
___________

Up Smash

Total: 54
Charge frame: 8
Hit: 21-23, 26-29
IASA: 40
___________

Neutral Air

Total: 44
Hit: 7-8, 16-17 (v1.0) or 20-21 (later versions)
Auto cancel: <3 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
___________

Back Air

Total: 35
Hit: 10-15
IASA: 29
Auto cancel: <6 19>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
___________

Forward Air

Total: 44
Hit: 14-19
IASA: 35
Auto cancel: <6 34>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
___________

Up Air

Total: 33
Hit: 6-16
IASA: 30
Auto cancel: 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
___________

Down Air

Total: 44
Hit: 16-20
IASA: 38
Auto cancel: <3 36>
Landlag: 35
L canceled: 17
___________

Warlock Punch

Total: 119
Hit: 70-72
___________

Gerudo Dragon


Total: 79
Hit Window: 15-34
___________

Gerudo Dragon Hit


(removed hitlag frames from pictures)
Total: 25
Hit: 4-8
Upon striking from the air…
Landlag: 40
Landfallspeciallag: 40

Otherwise
Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 20
___________

Dark Dive

Total: 64
Grab: 13-33
Direction choosing: 13
Landlag: 30
Landfallspeciallag: 30

Grabs edges from both sides as early
as 45

If it hits…
Hit: 3-5, 9-11, 15-17, 21-23
Releases on frame 25
Free falling 60 frames after release
___________

Wizard's Foot

Total: 77
Hit: 14-34
Total (ends in the air): 69
If you hit a wall, 60 frame animation

Aerial Wizard's Foot

Total: 58
Hit: 15-29
Landing hit: 2-3
Landing animation: 57

The large foot hitbox on grounded wizard foot can only hit stage hurtboxes, so it actually only hits a bit past his knee leaving his foot/shin exposed like the aerial version. It's the reason Kirby can duck underneath it without getting hit even though that hitbox clearly goes right through him.
___________

Air dodge
Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

Ground dodge
Invulnerable 2-20 out of 32

Roll
Invulnerable 4-19 out of 31
___________

Jumpstart: 6
Airborne on frame 7

Air time: 42
Earliest FF: 22
FF air time: 32

SH air time: 33
Earliest FF: 18
SH FF air time: 24

2nd jump earliest FF: 20

Landlag: 5

Dash becomes run at frame 16
Turn-jump Threshold: 16
Run turnaround: 28
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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#3
N-air was changed in v1.1 and onwards. In 1.0 the timer for the 2nd kick is wrong and it starts/ends before the actual kick and doesn't hit unless you're pretty much ontop of them since the leg is still underneath him. The gif is from a later version and shows it hitting on 20-21.

N-Air
Total: 44
Hit: 7-8, 16-17 (v1.0) or 20-21 (later versions)
Auto cancel: <3 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12




The large foot hitbox on grounded wizard foot can only hit stage hurtboxes, so it actually only hits a bit past his knee leaving his foot/shin exposed like the aerial version. It's the reason Kirby can duck underneath it without getting hit even though that hitbox clearly goes right through him.
 

Ulti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
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#11
It almost looks as if dtilt has more range than ftilt. Does it? Should I be using that as my ground spacing tool?

Nice job on this.
 
Joined
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#12
Dtilt is the longest grounded attack. If you are going to space, dtilt is a good choice. Pops them up for some dirtiness if they don't di correctly. But, most people will di correctly. And, it's not the fastest option.
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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#13
I like the shorter lag on f-tilt. Harder to punish/get in on you if it misses or gets blocked closer up.


F Tilt
Total: 29
Hit: 9-11

Damage 14(Up); 13(Neutral); 12(Down)
Hit Lag 7/7/7
Shield Stun 8/7/7
Advantage -12/-13/-13


D Tilt
Total: 35
Hit: 10-12
IASA: 35

Damage 12
Hit Lag 7
Shield Stun 7
Advantage -17
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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#16
I definitely use downtilt for spacing, you hit the tip of your foot on the opponent to add some pressure and I think sometimes it shield stabs. Downtilt is underused vs jiggs, its pretty good too.
 
Joined
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#17
Downtilt is a great spacing tool if you can use it right. Aerials are much slower but frequently more threatening. 7 frames before he takes off, and then another X frames for the aerial. Uair comes out frame 14 if you do it as fast as you can. And that's the fastest aerial possible. Downtilt is a couple of frames faster, and since he crouches/leans back a little it can definitely catch people off guard once in a while.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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#18
Abuse Ganon's hitboxes, I cannot stress this enough.. If you are accurate with these, it's devastating. That's why I say all the time, learn your range and your movement. And then when you understand this completely, you can do whatever you want. I think doing this also practices your reactions because I believe you can practice reaction time, it's not necessarily an innate ability. It's just acquiring the wisdom so you can react against any situations.
 
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#19
Movement is crucial for Ganon. Which is why I practice every movement option I can think of with Ganon. Even things that aren't super useful like perfect waveland moonwalks, or ledgedash moonwalking might lead to mindgames, or grabs, etc.

I think most people can react to some getup attacks, and other things that we find hard to do, or near impossible 'on reaction'. A lot of it all has to do with practice. And that's really it. When I started I couldn't waveland once out of ten tries. Now I do it while looking away and just hearing audio cues. Automating your Ganon is important, but also bad in a way. I don't want habits, but I do try to practice lots of 'automated' or usual avenues of attack or spacing. Like platform land to fair, or waveland to jab, etc.

I just hope someday I can use all the things I learn without thinking about it at all. Most of it is subconscious at this point, but I hate having to think about doing any movements I want. It literally makes my stomach nauseated. Which is most of the reason why I learn something to the point I can't screw it up. It makes me sick to watch me mess up.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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#20
When you do something on reaction, it's definitely conscious. The unconscious is simply things you cannot conceive or have not yet learned. The auto-pilot mode, is more like a series of pattern that you are conditioned to practice. In a match, I check where my opponent is and depending on what he does or what he's trying to bait out of me then I would try to do something to better my position and not get caught in stupid traps. It's not always easy of course since your decisions cannot always be the best but when you land one hit, you better try to do everything to keep landing hits.

Doing this, is changing your movement, changing your timing, changing attacks often.. go for grabs idk, it depends. This way, it's x10 harder for the opponent to read you, don't throw out useless attacks either because you just might get punished inside your lag as Ganon's moves is kinda slow. All that is pretty much gaining more experience, fight all kinds of different people and then you can formulate a style which can counter most of them.
 
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#21
Well, there are lots of kinds of reaction times. The kind that fighters train is a type that starts at the base of the spine and goes to the body. They don't want to waste precious miliseconds thinking about their strike, or their defense. That's why fighter's reaction times are so much better than our own. They often perceive and react within a fifth of a second. Whereas most people react and perceive around 1 second.

I want to lower my reaction time to something like that. Where I can perceive and react in the smallest window possible. That requires SOME automation. Because it is impossible for me to think about an action and take it within the same time it would take me to merely automatically respond. Other types of reaction are like flinch reaction time. Mine is around .141 seconds. Sometimes my flinch reaction saves me from lots of nonsense. But, it often is inaccurate since it is an evolutionary trait given to us to help us avoid split second disasters like a predator killing us, or falling, etc.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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#22
Well the predators instinct is what you use to prevent a lot of things, well at least it works with me a lot. I've been taught a lot of things in life and what you can use in life, can be used in melee too.
 
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#23
I transfer lessons from everything to life. But melee taught me some stuff at least about how to become good at something. Chess taught me that dedication and understanding lines and the psychology of your opponent is important. Melee taught me those things as well but on a far more dynamic scale. One that is impossible to discern as easily as a king's gambit, or a roy lopez opening.

I just want to hone my reaction time to the limit. I know I am not a genetic abnormality that my reaction time is superhuman--but it is better than average by a bit.

Also, as a sidenote. I've been noticing a lot of Ganon's saying that Falco's and Fox's have been getting smarter at the Ganon matchup and aim near his head with their phantasm. Because he has little time to react (or none at all). Has anyone tried pressuring the edge with a uair, FF ledge-canceled then downtilting?

If you face the ledge when you do it, you stop dead and are free to do anything. I try to put the upair near vertical when I hit the lip then downtilt. If they go for a phantasm they will get punished regardless. Your downtilt will be out fast enough and low enough to catch a short phantasm as well. Maybe I'm just theory crafting too hard.

It's ultra sexy on battlefield, because you can platform waveland toward the lip, just hold down before you come off, and upair, then downtilt. Very easy.
 

Dorsey

Banned via Warnings
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#24
my tl;dr version:
familiarize yourself with his hitboxes and spacing, using his movement to enable/facilitate all situations involved with this. The more habitual this becomes = the more you can focus on your opponent = the better your reaction will get w/ practice.
 

ERayz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
292
Location
Lachute, QC
#27
Is there any frame data for Ganon's grabs?

I fail to find this anywhere and I'm kinda collecting these infos, because I wanna learn what kind of shield pressure I can theoretically do on each character as Fox.
 

Construct

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Location
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#33
Does anyone know what the shield advantage or disadvantage is with all of ganons aerials (of course with them l cancled)

:phone:
Fair: -3

Bair: -3

Nair if both hit: -1

Dair: -6

Uair: -5

Calculations based off unstaled moves using strongbad's hitlag/shieldstun excel thing.
 

odinNJ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
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Location
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#36
I guess this goes here.

tl:dr ganons taunt saved him from a charge shot.

basically this is what happened.
I was playing a doubles match on pokestadium. standard rules, but we all randomed our charis.

anyways i was samus teamed with a fox against a ganon and a sheik. (lot of top tiers for a random) anyways ganon kick spiked my fox from zero on his last stock and taunted in the hilarity of the situation.

I decided to be that guy and hit him with a fully charged charge shot from pointblank to punish.
and this was halfway through the taunt. the shot hit him, and disapeared as if ganon was invicible (he had about 60 damage at the time). we all stopped and yelled "What the ....!!!!!" no one understood how the taunt saved him from the charge shot, and i ragequit on the spot.

can anyone with access to frame data please prove that this was obviously a glitch and that ganon is not that much of a boss. i have not tried to replicate it since as it was the most recent match i have played
 

tm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
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Location
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#39
not to whine but could we get the gifs / data for ganon's rolls and dodges? Most other chars have them posted and I think they would be useful (I also have no idea how to make these gifs or where to find them if they already exist).

Ledge attacks / jumps / rolls would also be useful.

edit: and grabs! can't believe I forgot that lol. I'm assuming it's 30fr, grabs on 8/9, dash grab is 40, grabs on something like 11 but still it would be nice to see.
 
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