Data Ganondorf: Hitboxes and Frame Data [3.6]

[Sartron]

• Up to date as of Project M 3.6.
• First animation plays at 1x speed, second animation plays at 1/2x speed. GIFs run at 30fps.
• Hitboxes with the same ID replace older hitboxes of the same ID.
• Hitlag calculations include the hitlag multiplier, and are not included in animation times.
• Hurtboxes in the BrawlBox animations disappearing do not reflect their ingame representations.
• Debug Mode GIFs include hitbox interpolation but do not include hurtboxes or stretched hitboxes.
• Images hosted on ssb.sartron.pro.

Frame: 1/60 of a second
Hitbox: Collision box that interacts with hurtboxes, as well as hitboxes (known as a clang)

• Angle: Direction in which the player is sent from an attack or throw

- A 365° angle is the Auto Link Angle and will send the opponent in the same direction as the player
- A 361° angle is the Sakurai Angle and will send all aerial opponents 45°
- Any angle between 260° and 280° is classified as a meteor.
- Any angle above 361° is classified as a spike, with the exception of the Auto Link Angle.​

• Base Knockback (BKB): Base value used in knockback calculations
• Weight Dependent Set Knockback (WDSK): Value that affects knockback according to weight
• Knockback Growth (KBG): Percentage multiplier that changes knockback in relation to the opponent's damage
• Hitstun: Amount of frames that locks non-directional inputs after hitlag and when the shield is not hit (DI)
• Shieldstun: Amount of frames that locks non-directional inputs after hitlag and if the shield is hit (ASDI)
• Hitlag: Amount of frames that locks the attacker's inputs but only the victim's non-directional inputs upon hit (SDI)​

Hurtbox: Collision box that interacts with hitboxes and other hurtboxes, usually representative of the player

• Invincibility: A state in which hurtboxes can still make contact with hitboxes, but cannot receive damage
• Intangibility: A state in which hurtboxes can no longer make contact with hitboxes
• Armor: A state in which the hurtboxes can receive damage but no knockback up to a certain threshold (Light, Medium, Heavy, Super)​

IASA: Interruptible As Soon As is the first frame in which an action may be interrupted by another action
Landing Lag: Uninterruptible frames that occur on landing
Auto-cancel Window: A designated amount of frames in which landing from an aerial will cause the player to suffer empty landing lag rather than aerial landing lag
Input Window: An amount of frames in which a specific input will trigger a designated action

Spoiler: Jab

Spoiler: Dash Attack

Spoiler: Forward Tilt

Spoiler: Up Tilt

Spoiler: Down Tilt

Spoiler: Forward Smash

Spoiler: Up Smash

Spoiler: Down Smash

Spoiler: Neutral Air

Spoiler: Forward Air

Spoiler: Back Air

Spoiler: Up Air

Spoiler: Down Air

Spoiler: Neutral Special (Dead Man’s Drift/Volley)

Spoiler: Side Special (Flame Choke)

Spoiler: Up Special (Dark Dive)

Spoiler: Down Special (Wizard's Foot)

Spoiler: Grabs

Spoiler: Throws

Spoiler: Taunts

Spoiler: Dodges and Get Up Options

Spoiler: Ledge Options

Spoiler: Miscellaneous

Spoiler: Thread Changelog (1/30/20)

 

[RKM]

Untilted fsmash and nair gifs are mixed up.

 

[teluoborg]

Superb work ! Thanks a lot !

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Nice work, good information here. Any chance we could get the frame data for aerial Flame Choke?

 

[Sartron]

Nice work, good information here. Any chance we could get the frame data for aerial Flame Choke?

I had a feeling I may have been forgetting something. Hopefully the Flame Choke section is really complete now.

 

[Magus420]

The side and up special gifs are showing the hitboxes that only hit targets and ungrabbable things, and not the grab collisions on the moves. Only the small arm hitboxes on up-b hit other players. Not sure if that's a limitation of the newer versions of BBox or not, as I've always used v0.64d B-γ instead.

Also, Dash attack hits 7-16, and IASA on 38 like melee (there is a frame speed modifier in the subaction that removes 3 frames during startup). A FSM between the kicks on d-smash removes 10 frames there, and another after the 2nd kick removes 3 endlag, making it match melee with Hit: 19-22, 29-32; IASA: 47. There are FSMs in the pac as well as in the codeset on some throws and side-b throws. Would be easier to just look at those in game with the frame advance code added to the gct (on d-throw Mario who is 100 weight would give 1x throw speed).

Aerial landing lags are (N/F/B/U/D): 12/25 . 12/25 . 12/25 . 10/20 . 15/31
You get the aerial's landing lag during these windows (autocancel with 5 landing lag when not): 4-21 . 7-33 . 7-18 . 1-19 . 4-31

 

[Sartron]

The side and up special gifs are showing the hitboxes that only hit targets and ungrabbable things, and not the grab collisions on the moves. Only the small arm hitboxes on up-b hit other players. Not sure if that's a limitation of the newer versions of BBox or not, as I've always used v0.64d B-γ instead.

Also, Dash attack hits 7-16, and IASA on 38 like melee (there is a frame speed modifier in the subaction that removes 3 frames during startup). A FSM between the kicks on d-smash removes 10 frames there, and another after the 2nd kick removes 3 endlag, making it match melee with Hit: 19-22, 29-32; IASA: 47. There are FSMs in the pac as well as in the codeset on some throws and side-b throws. Would be easier to just look at those in game with the frame advance code added to the gct (on d-throw Mario who is 100 weight would give 1x throw speed).

Aerial landing lags are (N/F/B/U/D): 12/25 . 12/25 . 12/25 . 10/20 . 15/31
You get the aerial's landing lag during these windows (autocancel with 5 landing lag when not): 4-21 . 7-33 . 7-18 . 1-19 . 4-31

Thanks for the info. I really should start to take FSMs into account so I can have more accurate data. As for the Frame Advance Code, is it any different that Dolphin's Frame Advance function? I am currently using Dolphin for my stuff. I'll also look into some Brawlbox differences.

 

[Magus420]

Should be the same for getting frame data. Technically would be a bit better in general since it stops the entire game while the code just stops animation stuff, but that doesn't matter for that. C-stick presses don't work right with the code for example since the c-stick inputs something for a single frame only and then inputs nothing, so you can't hold it while 'stopped' to get its button effect when advancing a frame since the game was still running the whole time.

 

[lukifer]

Mmm yeah, them f-air hitboxes are sexy. I approve of this thread.

Would be nice if there was a slider or something to advance the animations frame by frame, but that's probably more advanced then the forum will allow. There always Brawl Box for that I suppose.

On the topic of b-air, can anyone confirm/deny that it has a disjointed hitbox? I can't really tell from the images posted here. I have a friend who plays Ness and I'm often able to interrupt his recovery with bair without getting hit myself, which suggests to me that it has a disjointed hitbox given the massive priority that PK Thunder 2 has compared to most other recovery moves.

 

[Sartron]

Would be nice if there was a slider or something to advance the animations frame by frame, but that's probably more advanced then the forum will allow.

This is possible but I'm not a web designer and don't own a domain. There's already an equivalent of this concept for Melee I believe.

On the topic of b-air, can anyone confirm/deny that it has a disjointed hitbox?

You can't really just decide if something is disjointed. Disjointed just means that it is large for it's respective polygon or completely seperated from the player's body. In regards to bair, you can see that the fist hitbox is quite large. It is a little disjointed, maybe to the point where it's allowing you to edgeguard Ness.

 

[lukifer]

You can't really just decide if something is disjointed. Disjointed just means that it is large for it's respective polygon or completely seperated from the player's body. In regards to bair, you can see that the fist hitbox is quite large. It is a little disjointed, maybe to the point where it's allowing you to edgeguard Ness.

Well, I guess I was wondering if he had a hitbox on his fist during bair but not a hurtbox, or "invincibility" on his fist as some people like to put it. But perhaps it's simply a good tool for edge-guarding most recoveries by virtue of it having a large hitbox.

 

[Mr.Random]

I had a feeling I may have been forgetting something. Hopefully the Flame Choke section is really complete now.

Are you planning on doing most of the characters?

 

[MrButterFuzz]

So I just got done watching [Melee] In the Lab with GimR - Dissecting how to hit Sheik out of Up-B, and at 46:20 GimR starts talking about Ganon's cliffcatch fame data. He says that Ganon as the longest intangible cliffcatch in melee like 29 frames to grab on the ledge and be intangible. So that's cool. I wanna check this out in brawlbox for PM3.0. I found out that its 21 frames for PM3.0 though. Is this PMBR's doing, to just make everyone in the cast cliffcatch 21 frames?

 

[teluoborg]

21 frames is the same as Brawl, so I guess that's where it comes from.
And yes in Brawl everyone has 21 frames of intangibility, even if some character have to stay longer on the edge than others.

 

[Alter Requiem]

Good lord I wish his foot didn't make contact before the hitbox of aerial Wizard Foot. That explains so much BS that happens with that move.

 

[CORY]

a couple questions:

1) why isn't this stickied? seriously, this is too useful to have flounder to the back pages on accident!

2) what's the calculation for shield stun? i'm trying to do some theorycrafting on just how safe some of his moves are on shield.

 

[Sartron]

a couple questions:

1) why isn't this stickied? seriously, this is too useful to have flounder to the back pages on accident!

2) what's the calculation for shield stun? i'm trying to do some theorycrafting on just how safe some of his moves are on shield.

To answer your questions...
1. The Project M forums don't appear to be actively moderated in terms of managing stickies or relevant information, atleast outside of the general discussion forum.

2. The calculation for shieldstun is the following: FLOOR((Damage + 4.45)/2.235))

Calculating move advantages and the like are something I plan to do further along the road.

 

[CORY]

thanks! what's FLOOR, if i may ask?

and i'm assuming the answer you get is in frames? will it round up or down?

 

[Sartron]

thanks! what's FLOOR, if i may ask?

and i'm assuming the answer you get is in frames? will it round up or down?

Flooring is rounding the number downwards into an integer from a decimal. So for example, we have a number like 4.9999999. That number would round down to 4.

The answer you get will be in frames, yes.

 

[teluoborg]

Dayum that's some very good information, thanks a lot !

 

[Bazkip]

Ganon's jump start is 6 frames, btw

Here is everyone's JumpStart and empty landing. Empty landing is simply just jumping and then landing. You can disregard that as it does not relate to DACUS.

-------------------------------------
Character       |  JumpStart . Empty
-------------------------------------
Bowser..........|     8      .   6 
Captain Falcon..|     4      .   4 
Charizard.......|     4      .   5 
Diddy Kong......|     4      .   4 
Donkey Kong.....|     5      .   5 
Falco...........|     5      .   4 
Fox.............|     3      .   4 
Ganondorf.......|     6      .   5 
Giga Bowser.....|     6      .   11
Ice Climbers....|     3      .   4
Ike.............|     5      .   4 
Ivysaur.........|     5      .   4 
Jigglypuff......|     5      .   4 
King Dedede.....|     6      .   6
Kirby...........|     3      .   4 
Link............|     6      .   4 
Lucario.........|     3      .   4 
Lucas...........|     4      .   4 
Luigi...........|     4      .   4 
Mario...........|     4      .   4 
Marth...........|     4      .   4 
Meta Knight.....|     3      .   4 
Mewtwo..........|     5      .   5 
Mr. Game & Watch|     4      .   4 
Ness............|     4      .   4 
Olimar..........|     4      .   4 
Peach...........|     5      .   4 
Pikachu.........|     3      .   4 
Pit.............|     5      .   4 
R.O.B...........|     6      .   4 
Roy.............|     4      .   4 
Samus...........|     3      .   4 
Sheik...........|     3      .   4 
Snake...........|     5      .   4 
Sonic...........|     3      .   4 
Squirtle........|     4      .   4 
Toon Link.......|     3      .   4 
Wario...........|     5      .   4 
Wolf............|     4      .   4 
Yoshi...........|     5      .   4 
Zelda...........|     5      .   4 
Zero Suit Samus.|     4      .   4

 

[CORY]

interesting, i thought it was higher than that (like, 7 frame startup ;x). i also thought bowser had a 9frame jumpsquat, so i guess i misremembered a lot of stuff.

edit: also, looks like reporting the thread to request a sticky worked : p

 

[Yanoss1313]

interesting, i thought it was higher than that (like, 7 frame startup ;x). i also thought bowser had a 9frame jumpsquat, so i guess i misremembered a lot of stuff.

edit: also, looks like reporting the thread to request a sticky worked : p

hehe, good job =D

also, i've always wished ganon's jump startup with 1 or 2 frames faster >.<
can't have it all though.

 

[Bazkip]

hehe, good job =D

also, i've always wished ganon's jump startup with 1 or 2 frames faster >.<
can't have it all though.

Gives him a pretty easy DACUS, at least

 

[CORY]

it's true, his dacus is super easy. too bad it's not all that useful : (

another question about frame safety: when you land a hit, moves have varying amounts of "hit stop" (i think that's the phrase. that little laggy animation where they don't move, that allows for sdi). does this exist on shields as well?

for example, ganon's fair, if landed at the last frame before you land, is -4 on block, correct? is there any hit stop counted into that? or is hitstop just thrown in with the hit/shield stun frames?

 

[teluoborg]

Yes hitlag (or hitstop, call it as you like) exists on shields too. I don't know about melee and pm, but in brawl you can actually SDI in shield during shield hitlag, to reduce the knockback and have a slightly better grab.

Now seeing that Ganon has a 6 frames jumpsquat explains why I find it so hard to wavedash with him when I have no trouble at all with other charachers. Meh.

 

[CORY]

so, does the hit stop on shields factor in "under" the shield stun? or is it an additional factor that you account for when calculating shield safety?

 

[standardtoaster]

The hitlag on shield is not factored into shieldstun at all. The amount of damage a move does along with how much landing lag is all that's used for shield safety.

 

[CORY]

awesome, thanks, toaster! now that i know all the variables i can theorycraft (mostly) properly!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm looking at this data and some of it is incomplete (example Dash Attack)

Maybe I have the wrong files or something also but from what I can tell Jab has hitboxes on 3-4 not 3-5.

idk I'll look into this later in more depth. I would like to assist in creating accurate frame data for Project M.

 

[Sartron]

I'm looking at this data and some of it is incomplete (example Dash Attack)

Maybe I have the wrong files or something also but from what I can tell Jab has hitboxes on 3-4 not 3-5.

idk I'll look into this later in more depth. I would like to assist in creating accurate frame data for Project M.

This is basically jab...

Asynchronous Timer: frames=2
Offensive Collision: Id=0, Bone=0, Damage=7, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=361, BaseKnockback=30, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=3.91, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=12.02, X Offset=12.23, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1.2, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=956498563
Offensive Collision: Id=1, Bone=0, Damage=8, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=361, BaseKnockback=30, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=3.52, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=13.5, X Offset=6.75, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1.2, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=956498563
Offensive Collision: Id=2, Bone=0, Damage=8, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=361, BaseKnockback=30, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=2.73, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=12.02, X Offset=2.109983, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1.2, SDIMultiplier=x1, Flags=956498563
Synchronous Timer: frames=3
Terminate Collisions

Asynchronous timer starts it on frame 3.
Synchronous timer has to count 3 frames starting on frame 3.
So: 3, 4, 5... then execute the Terminate Collision. If you're seeing something different you may have the wrong files or miscalculated. The reason Dash Attack is incomplete is because I'm still working on everything. Everything takes work and I've been in the process of updating my 4 frame threads up until this one, being the last one in my "queue." Now I want to take things a step further and list hitbox data. tl;dr work

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ohhhhhhhh, ok I'm used to most things in Brawl being Asynchronous timers, I didn't even notice that that it was Synchronous.

My frame advance code is bugging with Project M. How weird.

I haven't used OpenSA2 for a very long time.

Edit: By the way, personally I think that total frames and IASA frames are unneeded data. I would use FAF (First actionable frame) and scrap the total frames since it isn't needed.

 

[ShadowGanon]

There doesn't seem to be a thing that shows the hitboxes for the landing aerial wiz kick...

 

[Sartron]

There doesn't seem to be a thing that shows the hitboxes for the landing aerial wiz kick...

I don't understand what you mean by thing. If you mean animation (gif) it's listed under "Aerial Wizard's Foot" and the hitbox data and hit frames is listed under SpecialAirLwEnd.

 

[ShadowGanon]

I don't understand what you mean by thing. If you mean animation (gif) it's listed under "Aerial Wizard's Foot" and the hitbox data and hit frames is listed under SpecialAirLwEnd.

Oh...... I feel dumb......

 

[ShadowGanon]

Hey, @ Sartron , would you happen to know if there is any hit-box/grab-box difference between reversed and non-reversed specials?

 

[Sartron]

Hey, @ Sartron , would you happen to know if there is any hit-box/grab-box difference between reversed and non-reversed specials?

If you turn around Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, it's stronger. That's the exception, as reversing a special does not actually change any of its properties.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Just wanted to say, thanks for assembling the frame data. Also, why would Warlock Punch be stronger on the turn around?

 

[CORY]

programmed as such. it gets stronger on each turn around, up to 5 (?), both damage and knockback (i'm sure on the damage, making an assumption on knockback).

 

[ShadowGanon]

Hey, @ Sartron , is shield stun measured in frames? For example, if one of the hitbox info things says that a move has 7 shield stun, does that mean that the guy in the shield cannot act out of his shield for 7 frames?