Data Ganondorf: Hitboxes and Frame Data [3.6]

[Sartron]

what's the deal with the angle on dthrow? it's listed as 80 degrees but that would imply that the victim would be sent in front of Ganon whereas in reality it sends behind.

There's an event in PSA called Reverse Direction that is changing the angle at which Mario is thrown at. It seems to alter angles to go slightly lower than they actually are.

The left is dthrow's true angle, and the right shows the altered angle. Looks like a shift from 80 degrees to about 70 or so.

also I was under the impression that it was a throw with an angle between 180 and 360 (ie a downwards trajectory), due to the impact GFX on the ground and the fact that opponents seem to be in hitstun disproportionately long compared to how far the knockback sends them, which is a result of downwards angled hitboxes affecting grounded targets.

The impact GFX on the ground is just an aesthetic, it's not actually the victim hitting the ground. They are thrown after the GFX.
The hitstun of the throw is also proportional to the amount of knockback Mario receives: 85.0845 * 0.4 = 34.

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

I think the frame data on F-air is wrong. It looks to be exactly like Melee from here, but in gameplay, it actually ends quicker, to the point where you can auto-cancel it from a short-hop (provided you do it on the first frame after the squat) and air dodge after you do it from a full jump (so you can waveland after doing it), neither of which I have been able to replicate in Melee.

 

[Bazkip]

I think the frame data on F-air is wrong. It looks to be exactly like Melee from here, but in gameplay, it actually ends quicker, to the point where you can auto-cancel it from a short-hop (provided you do it on the first frame after the squat) and air dodge after you do it from a full jump (so you can waveland after doing it), neither of which I have been able to replicate in Melee.

That's just due to engine differences.

In Melee, performing an aerial on the first airborne frame results in reduced height. This does not occur in PM.
In PM, you can airdodge out of IASA frames, whereas you couldn't in Melee.

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

That's just due to engine differences.

In Melee, performing an aerial on the first airborne frame results in reduced height. This does not occur in PM.
In PM, you can airdodge out of IASA frames, whereas you couldn't in Melee.

That's very interesting to note. Do you know if it's just PM where the aerial thing doesn't reduce height or did Brawl have it as well?

 

[Bazkip]

That's very interesting to note. Do you know if it's just PM where the aerial thing doesn't reduce height or did Brawl have it as well?

Pretty certain it's just a quirk of Melee.

 

[Zigludo]

How come you removed the hitstun at 0% and 100% values for each move? it was quite useful as an offhand metric for figuring out if a move would break crouch cancel in rough % ranges

 

[Sartron]

How come you removed the hitstun at 0% and 100% values for each move? it was quite useful as an offhand metric for figuring out if a move would break crouch cancel in rough % ranges

I didn't like having them anymore for a couple reasons...
The tables look significantly more appealing without them.
Knockback is dependent on weight and percent, simplifying it down to 1-2 numbers wasn't really doing it justice.

I doubt I'll be putting knockback values back up. However, BKB/WDSK/KBG remains so anyone who wishes to calculate it still may, and it would most likely be more accurate as they could calculate for weight and percent instead of having my defined preset (preset being weight 100, 0%/100%).

 

[Zigludo]

Just noticed that the angle on the tipman (last active frames of uair) is -360 degrees.

Is there any functional difference between -360, 360, and 0?

 

[Sartron]

Just noticed that the angle on the tipman (last active frames of uair) is -360 degrees.

Is there any functional difference between -360, 360, and 0?

4 hammer has a -360 angle instead of 0 because 0 has an additional property of never knocking down vs a grounded opponent. Fully charged eruption uses 0 so you can't always ground tech it and survive. Other 0 angle attacks like Fox's shine, Pikachu's u-air, and Ganon's u-air use -360 as well, and it has no special properties. They all use -360 instead of 360 because when converted to radians 360 results in a slightly above horizontal angle (2.0000something pi) which makes it cause instant landings on flat ground when it doesn't knock down while -360 is slightly below horizontal (-2.0000something pi) which gives grounded hitstun.

tl;dr 0° never knocks down grounded opponents.
360° is slightly above horizontal.
-360° is slightly below horizontal.

 

[Zigludo]

so it's impossible to ASDI late uair downwards to crouch cancel? a la Fox shine

 

[Commander]

The gifs of the moves are no longer present/working. Is it possible for you to repost them?

 

[Bazkip]

I was checking something in debug the other day and I noticed that dthrow seemed to last 39 frames instead of the 38 listed here. It was on Mario who's weight is 100. Am I counting wrong or is that actually incorrect?

 

[CORY]

I know dthrowbis weight dependent. Is 100 supposed to be the "baseline"

 

[Sartron]

I was checking something in debug the other day and I noticed that dthrow seemed to last 39 frames instead of the 38 listed here. It was on Mario who's weight is 100. Am I counting wrong or is that actually incorrect?

Thanks, fixed. No idea why I put 38 whenever I wrote this.

 

[Bazkip]

This is really pedantic but shouldn't the >100% ledge options actually be marked as ≥100%?

 

[Bazkip]

I was just messing around in debug and IASA for grounded wizard's foot seems to be frame 78 and not 67 as listed here?

 

[Sartron]

I was just messing around in debug and IASA for grounded wizard's foot seems to be frame 78 and not 67 as listed here?

Thanks for noticing, you are correct. Turns out there was a hidden 0.725x FSM for the endlag of this move; the thread is updated now.