:034:
Smash Hero
Yeah, although there hasn't been a new tourney since November... Although, there are some rumors of tourneys around February, so I'll definitely be attending.
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Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.
- Thread starter Ray_Kalm
- Start date
deadpoe7
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys, is it possible to sourspot dair into a "thunder-tempest?" I got my friend (who was also using Ganon) with a ssdair and proceeded to thunderstomp him 3 more times, and he says he couldn't get out of it. Was he really locked for a little bit, or does his DI just suck?
You shouldn't be able to hit with the 3'd one if your opponent DI, air dodge or nair correctly.
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I got a question:
When Stutter stepping Fsmashing with Ganon, there are two ways of doing it, right?
(Ganon is facing right)
1. Forward -> C-stick right (Gives a little distance bonus)
2. Turn around -> C-stick right (Gives a litte bit more distance than #1)
#2 gives the most distance bonus possible, right?
hyperstation
Smash Lord
There's a third option that yields the most distance:
Tilt forward a tiny bit, Smash backwards and C-Stick forwards at the same time.
I mentioned that I'm working on Spot Dodge buffered sliding sh*t for the DSL...I have some new stuff that makes FSmash's range even bigger than stutter step.
:034:
Smash Hero
Demonic Smash!?
hyperstation
Smash Lord
I've got a whole f*cking demonic MOVESET.
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
Where's our frame information on Aerial Choke / Aerial Flame Choke / Aerial Gerudo / Aerial Murder Choke? (made difficult to search by the fact we haven't picked a consistent name. I mean why do we call it Gerudo at all? This isn't Melee and the move changed.)
I've always wondered how followups work from an aerial choke after it lands (or if there are any).
I've always wondered how followups work from an aerial choke after it lands (or if there are any).
hyperstation
Smash Lord
This is amazing, and I wouldn't call it worthless. I'd call it "bait". Lace up yr lollerskates, Z1GMA.
You know what I think? You really should try the buffered dash cancel out of its IASA's lulz
Gleam
Smash Ace
Actually you can at the very least do a dash attack out of it.
So I assume it should be possilbe to Buffered Dash Cancel.
TP
Smash Master
A bomb can walk under Ganon while he is doing his up taunt. Equally worthless and awesome.
Nobody answered my question that was actually relevant in a Q&A thread. Instead, everyone focuses on the fun and irrelevant things.
His taunts are teasers..A bomb can walk under Ganon while he is doing his up taunt. Equally worthless and awesome.
Nobody answered my question that was actually relevant in a Q&A thread. Instead, everyone focuses on the fun and irrelevant things.
Utaunt - He CAN fly, but he refuses to use it when needed.
Dtaunt - He HAS a sword, but he refuses to use it.
Staunt - He IS strong enough to almost crush his own hand with the
other fist, but he refuses to use that power.
That's Ganon ~
TP
Smash Master
Fine, ignore my question. >_>
Here's another: How long should we wait before the next Ganon tourney? Those things are fun, even if they are not necessarily accurate indicators of skill. Nothing like a good Ganon tourney.
Anomilus
Smash Lord
I guess I have a question, sort of. I just stumbled upon Reverse Jump-Canceled Up Smashing (Was kind of hoping it was something new, but it was discussed on the Tactical Board). Anybody think a technique like this would have any use for Ganondorf? I haven't seen it discussed, and it seems like it could be a nice spacing or baiting tool, running away then suddenly turning around and throwing out that large hitbox and still having IASA frames to boot. Any thoughts on this technique?
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
Our 'similar-fightingstyle' friends! How are you?!
I have a noobish question... Have you found any good uses for Ganondorf's Utilt? It's so awesome and intruiging, I wish I could use it better.
I have a noobish question... Have you found any good uses for Ganondorf's Utilt? It's so awesome and intruiging, I wish I could use it better.
TP
Smash Master
Edgeguarding. It hits people hanging on the edge from like half the stage away. I hit with it like once per set. Now Warlock Punch is not useful at all. I have hit with it once in a serious match, and that was only after I broke the guy's shield with an Utilt.
Gleam
Smash Ace
...While I was trapped in a box no doubt...lol
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
If you catch someone like Squirtle charging a F-smash or D-smash, throw it out, and you'll give the guy a huge scare. If he doesn't release the Smash immediately and gtfo, BOOM!
You can throw it out if you read someone misspacing something fairly laggy. If they don't get hit by it, they will probably be scared and shield, in which case you'll possibly break their shield.
Set off Snake's land mines with it for the lolz. If he likes spacing fulljump N-airs, it's possible to punish him with Up-tilt.
Use it to encourage people to stop edgecamping...I guess.
All in all you need a lot of mindgames to actually hit with it, but at least the attack has low ending lag.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Have these boards figured out yet you can ledgehop D-air onto stage :O
Finally I found my way to get back with a ledgehop O_o.
Finally I found my way to get back with a ledgehop O_o.
TP
Smash Master
Yeah, you can get back with any aerial or an air dodge. Dair is the easiest. The best thing is the flipman, which is a lagless uair, which is really really hard. Look it up.
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Regarding UTilt. I'm gonna drop a little knowledge real quick. I use Utilt more and more every match. Maybe because I'm stubborn and I just like the move a lot, but I'm determined to make it work.
One really common usage for me is on Smashville.
I go up on the moving platform, especially when it's beyond the edge of the stage. Say the platform is on the far right of the screen. I'll stand on the far right edge of the platform facing left, and set up a Utilt either while the platform is stationary or while it's coming back in towards the center. In the former case (stationary), it's just a mindgame. You're tempting the enemy to come out to the platform to punish your charge time. The hitbox extends slightly below the platform, nearly the entire length of it, and the height of Ganon. It's f*cking HUUUUUGE, and it limits approach options a lot. This obviously won't work too well with projectile spammers. I'll sometimes time this to temp opponents right after they respawn and catch them as their invincibility frames run out.
The latter case (platform moving back to the center) is useful against really tall chars: samus, snake, DK, etc. The Utilt box is gigantic, and it can catch their heads if they're standing anywhere below the platform.
Also...Utilt is a KILLER in teams. I mean...I love that move SO much in teams. I was teaming with Brahma yesterday (he's a DK main - I know you've played him, Swoops), and everytime we had just one opponent left, I'd just stand on one edge of the platform and charge a utilt. He'd cargo carry them and just toss the opponent in the general direction of my Utilt, and chances are, because the hitbox is so huge, they're dead.
I'd say in summation that Utilt is a move that is either HORRENDOUS or GREAT depending on the terrain of the level you're playing on.
Side note: I believe you can eff up Ike's side B (or Aether?) recovery by extending the wind beyond the edge of the level and sucking him under the ledge.
One really common usage for me is on Smashville.
I go up on the moving platform, especially when it's beyond the edge of the stage. Say the platform is on the far right of the screen. I'll stand on the far right edge of the platform facing left, and set up a Utilt either while the platform is stationary or while it's coming back in towards the center. In the former case (stationary), it's just a mindgame. You're tempting the enemy to come out to the platform to punish your charge time. The hitbox extends slightly below the platform, nearly the entire length of it, and the height of Ganon. It's f*cking HUUUUUGE, and it limits approach options a lot. This obviously won't work too well with projectile spammers. I'll sometimes time this to temp opponents right after they respawn and catch them as their invincibility frames run out.
The latter case (platform moving back to the center) is useful against really tall chars: samus, snake, DK, etc. The Utilt box is gigantic, and it can catch their heads if they're standing anywhere below the platform.
Also...Utilt is a KILLER in teams. I mean...I love that move SO much in teams. I was teaming with Brahma yesterday (he's a DK main - I know you've played him, Swoops), and everytime we had just one opponent left, I'd just stand on one edge of the platform and charge a utilt. He'd cargo carry them and just toss the opponent in the general direction of my Utilt, and chances are, because the hitbox is so huge, they're dead.
I'd say in summation that Utilt is a move that is either HORRENDOUS or GREAT depending on the terrain of the level you're playing on.
Side note: I believe you can eff up Ike's side B (or Aether?) recovery by extending the wind beyond the edge of the level and sucking him under the ledge.
Anomilus
Smash Lord
B-but my question! Not even a glance?? That's pretty cold... D:
hyperstation
Smash Lord
Jump canceled USmash is just to get your Usmash to slide a little bit. This has been known for a long time. I actually just mentioned it in Kalm's thread about USmash edge guarding. Anyway, my take on it is that there's no reason to Jump cancel your USmash because you can just Dash cancel your upsmash which is easier to carry your momentum and slides pretty much the same distance. I donno if one goes farther.
TBH, I dash cancel into almost every USmash I use just to take advantage of that tiny slide you get. It's like a moving really tall hitbox of doom. D*mn I wish Ganon had a DACUS like Snake. Imagine that moving hitbox...mmm.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
why would reversing your U-smash help you...? Unless you run away from your opponent instead of approaching
hyperstation
Smash Lord
You admitted in another thread that you have been playing Ganon for one day. Comments like this confirm that. Please tell me you see the logic in retreating, quickly turning and sliding your USmash into an approaching opponent. Not to mention that USmash has IASA frames, so you could turn around bait with USmash and follow up with a jab or something quick during the IASA frames...
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
We all have to start somehow :O
But this does not apply to all characters. Why would one with a projectile run after you. Over half the cast has a projectile, so yes, this is useful, just not on the better characters. (having a projectile)
But this does not apply to all characters. Why would one with a projectile run after you. Over half the cast has a projectile, so yes, this is useful, just not on the better characters. (having a projectile)
hyperstation
Smash Lord
The implications of what you're saying are very, very bizarre. By your logic, anytime a character retreats, if you have a projectile you will fire it. This is not true. A lot of the time, players will see a retreat as an opening not available during an approach (or vice versa). That is, you may retreat and Samus sees that as an opportunity for a quick Dash Attack, SH DAir, or SH Broiler only to end up eating a reversed USmash. Just an example, and perhaps not the BEST one, because Samuses will generally keep up projectile/ZAir pressure. However, the point stands.
BTW, I'm not trying to bust your chops, man. I know you're interested in becoming a Ganon player, which is awesome, but I'm just trying to show how this idea is viable as a mind game. It's not THAT different from approaching, stopping and reversing, then catching your opponent in a Gerudo. That's KOSK's bread and butter, right there, and it works because it's a pretty potent mind game.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
O_o... I suck at Gerudo anyway...
BTW, why is there never anyone in ganon chatroom :O
BTW, why is there never anyone in ganon chatroom :O
hyperstation
Smash Lord
You're not on the Sonic Boards anymore, chief. Usually I just tell Kalm, Swoops, or Kosk to meet me there when I have something new to talk to them about before posting it here. I'll also use it to talk to someone I just had a match with after we're done. I'll go in there now and keep you company. lol.
Anomilus
Smash Lord
I guess I'll just have to put it to use myself. One idea is with Falco. Let's say Falco's knocked off the stage, but gets to the ledge before Ganondorf can make it over there to edgeguard. Falco likes to ledge-hop Phantasm back on the stage. I tend to fight Falco's myself, so I've learned to predict stuff like this and counter. Eventually though they get the idea and become less likely to Phantasm into an F-Smash or DAir.
...On the other hand, if Ganon's facing away, it may encourage them to do this; Moreso if it seems Ganon's within range to be hit. Basically, this is one instance where a Reverse JC'd USmash works to both bait the Falco and punish in one fell swoop. It retreats Ganon, and the sliding effect helps space him further to avoid the attack all while putting up a big wall of hitbox in front of him.
Yeah, and this tactic isn't the same as a normal JC'd USmash or retreating, turning around, and Hyphen Smashing. It's another option, though I just wasn't sure where it could be applied. Guess it's up to me. I guess I'm just glad even I could find something to work with, even if it's not much.
...Oh yeah, and the IASA frames. Nobody forget that. NOBODY.
...On the other hand, if Ganon's facing away, it may encourage them to do this; Moreso if it seems Ganon's within range to be hit. Basically, this is one instance where a Reverse JC'd USmash works to both bait the Falco and punish in one fell swoop. It retreats Ganon, and the sliding effect helps space him further to avoid the attack all while putting up a big wall of hitbox in front of him.
Yeah, and this tactic isn't the same as a normal JC'd USmash or retreating, turning around, and Hyphen Smashing. It's another option, though I just wasn't sure where it could be applied. Guess it's up to me. I guess I'm just glad even I could find something to work with, even if it's not much.
...Oh yeah, and the IASA frames. Nobody forget that. NOBODY.
I don't know if this is known or not, but Ganon's Fair will take priority over Snakes Usmash. I was battling a guy, and he launched the moratar. I randomly did Fair and it exploded the mortar, with Ganon coming out unharmed. :D
hyperstation
Smash Lord
That's cool, Divilenta. I like the idea of FF FAiring into the mortar AND Snake's body. It seems like it would be a pretty nice counter due to the curve of Ganon's arm during FAir.
deadpoe7
Smash Apprentice
Okay, I have a shameful question, considering how long I have been playing Brawl, but I never learned about this, so here goes: What are IASA frames, and how do they factor into gameplay?
Anomilus
Smash Lord
IASA = Interrupt As Soon As
Basically, a latter set of frames for an action that can be interrupted by another action. Ganon's best example of this is his USmash. Normally when you perform a USmash, Ganon throws his boot high into the air, then brings his leg back to the floor and assumes his neutral position. From the frame where his boot being in the air (right after he Yells) to the frame where he's about to be neutral position again, you can input another move and it'll execute, disrupting the rest of the animation. This makes USmash, as well as other moves, safer to use than they look simply because the end lag is greatly reduced by another action.
Ganon's DTilt and FTilt also have IASA frames, though not as much as USmash.
Basically, a latter set of frames for an action that can be interrupted by another action. Ganon's best example of this is his USmash. Normally when you perform a USmash, Ganon throws his boot high into the air, then brings his leg back to the floor and assumes his neutral position. From the frame where his boot being in the air (right after he Yells) to the frame where he's about to be neutral position again, you can input another move and it'll execute, disrupting the rest of the animation. This makes USmash, as well as other moves, safer to use than they look simply because the end lag is greatly reduced by another action.
Ganon's DTilt and FTilt also have IASA frames, though not as much as USmash.