Gamestop Tournament Tips and Info!

[Yuna]

You misinterpreted my point. Although, for a ruleset where the best players don't automatically win, you could try the default rules for Super Smash Brothers and its sequels.

I do not undestand what you're trying to say here.

Anyway, I find tournaments where the same people are always winning to be bland, to be honest. I suppose that sounds odd, but if you consider it, it's not so strange. I like sudden upsets, surprising victories, and amazing comebacks more than anything, and SSBM tournaments just haven't offered enough of them. It's usually no surprise when the winner is announced, because the winner is ALWAYS the more skilled person, and everyone knows who that will be. There are no sudden upsets- the rules dictate that the random element of luck must be banished, after all.

You know why? Because when there's money and other prizes at stake, people tend to want the more skilled players to win/place high.

We do not wish to have to train meticulously only to have a random luck element lose us a set! There are often surprising victories, sudden upsets and amazing comebacks. If you haven't seen any, then you just haven't been to many tournaments.

Me, I like to see the odds thrown asunder by luck and randomization, and that's really what draws me to Super Smash Brothers in the first place- what other fighting game out there allows for luck and random chance to overcome dedicated skill? None. If I wanted that, I'd watch one of the thousands of Street Fighter tournaments. I like the random element, and I feel that it's not represented enough in the tournament scene, which is why I joined SmashBoards in the first place. I'm not saying "hey, let's remove skill from its dominant spot!" I'm saying that skill should be one of multiple factors, including luck.

Yeah, but we, the community, don't want that. And I doubt the organizers of the tournament at Gamestop want that as well. "Hey, let's make a ruleset where some lucky ******* can just win it all despite being obviously very bad at the game!".

And before you declare that to be against the way a competition works, let's look at Poker, where skill and luck go hand in hand in the most elaborate of dances. There are prizes there exceeding a million dollars in cash. Yet, by definition, the most skilled, experienced player is not always going to be the winner. Why? Because of luck. Because of chance. I can't take the so-called "tourney***" scene seriously until it acknowledges that skill is not the end-all be-all for deciding a winner.

Poker is not Smash.

You cannot limit luck in Poker unless you want to make everyone's hands open, which would make it boring. Poker is also inherently luck based and people know this going in.

Poker is also not something for everyone and even the Pros know that it's risky and that they can lose entire tournaments to amateurs because of sheer dumb luck.

Poker is still a lot about mindgames and skill. If you know the game, you can also predict it and see if it's really worth going All-In when your chances of having the best hand aren't that high.

Good for you. However, need I remind you that Nintendo is catering to children and seniors along with the powergaming crowd? Don't be naive; you're not the only kind of person interested in Smash tournaments, and it's demoralizing and humiliating to some to get thoroughly trashed like that. It's not a way to be introduced to a community, it's a brick freaking wall.

How is it demoralizing and humiliating? I just lost at a game I haven't played much if at all. Wow, must mean I suck! For not having played the game before! Yay!

Also, Gamestop =/= Nintendo. And Nintendo catering to children and seniors =/= Everything Nintendo does should be adapted to kids and seniors, even rulesets in tournaments with 5000 dollars, TVs and Wiis on the line!

Something that everyone here acknowledges, I'm sure, is that no one is the best of the best- there's always a better player.

Then why get upset when you lose, even by a great deal? The good players don't want to lose due to randomness so they do this by winning by as large a marginal as they can to prevent randomness from screwing them over.

And then I ignored the last part of your post because it's the same stuff all over again.

 

[Dunas]

I think he really was referring to the tournaments he runs, aka "his tourneys". Yuna lives in Sweden, so it's not like he can go to the gamestop tourneys >_>

Wasn't aware of that. Alright, that works, although applying that logic to a public tournament is still a little odd.

 

[Yuna]

I concede that this argument is wholly inappropriate, then. My attitude in general was more geared toward the kind of people that I had observed in other occasions, whose outlook in general on casual players was to call them degrading names ("scrub" comes to mind) and to mock them for not using the same rules set, or to feel that they were not worthy of enjoying the game.

A casual player is not necessarily a scrub. But a scrub is almost always a n00b/newbie/casual player. Being a casual player is not inherently bad. Being a scrub is.

I believe I owe you an apology, as I was taking your points from an entirely different standpoint than the one they were intended for. That said, you're right- the prizes in this tournament are big ones. I just dislike the talk of crushing the people in the first round. Win against them, show off your skill, fine. But don't go full-on with them unless it's necessary. Let them enjoy the event too.

Who ever said people should crush other people in the first round just to crush them? It's to ensure a win. What if I enter (somehow), get ahead by 1 point and then something random happens and the opponent ends up winning by a close margin? How do I prevent this? By winning by as large a marginal as I can, minimizing the chance of losing!

Wasn't aware of that. Alright, that works, although applying that logic to a public tournament is still a little odd.

All tournaments are public unless it's only for a select few. So are "my" tournaments and other SWF tournaments. Skilled people will show up if there's money or big stuff on the line.

And they will play all-out to win no matter who they play. To sandbag and "be nice" is to risk random loss.

 

[travis.luckiest]

I joined SWF because I like Smash Bros and I had a friend or two here at the time.

i like halo ..and have lots of friends that play it casually and competitively ..but i'm not interested in going onto bungie forums and bugging all the super competitive kids

it seems like a lot of you casual kids are just lurking our forums waiting for one of the competitive guys to say something that sounds elitist and call them out on it
i know some of us can sound elitist sometimes ..but it's only because we're good at the game ..and it's humanly innate to to want to be better than someone at something and take pride in it

(i don't actually like halo ..that was mostly used as an example)

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

It's worth mentioning that, at a standard Melee tournament, there's not too much need for an experienced competitive player to go all out against a casual or newbie. Most will actually go for flashier stuff than they would normally because they can get away with it, and who doesn't like techchasing with Falcon Punches?

But the difference is, Melee tournaments are 4 stock, no items, etc. The Brawl gamestop tournaments are 1 minute, items on, single elim. Even ignoring the huge transition from Melee to Brawl, there's a HUGE amount of luck involved in who wins a 1 minute match. So figuring out the best way to increase your chances of winning before going is a really good idea.

 

[ImpactAR]

TO ALL YOU CASUAL PLAYERS WHO COMPLAIN!

I'm not talking about casual players who play just for fun and don't care for tournaments because they know they aren't that hardcore.

I'm talking about you casual players who think you're special and are better than others and anything thing that disproves that causes you to make excuses and complain. That's right. You scrubs!

All competitive players made Smash into a sport. To see who is better and having a prize at the end pushes them to be better.

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?

Honestly, do you scrubs really expect to come to any type of tournament and win without research, practice, or studying other players? This exist in all types of competitive game. Pro football, basketball, soccer, boxing... Pro chess, checkers, poker...

The winners study the other teams or players, research strengths and weaknesses, practice and experiment with different strategies. That's why they win.

Do you understand the point of their actions? No? Let me say it word for word. They are trying to increase their winning chance through skill and smarts and minimize luck.

OTHER COMPETITIVE GAMES

"Oh, but this is just a game. It's different. And no other game is like that." Anyone who say that STFU. Again your wrong due to your lack of experience. FPS and other fighters are the same way.

FPS teams practice together and develop plans and strategies. They develop quick communication language and have many back up plans in order to adapt. There are banned maps and weapons that have a degree of unfairness or too much luck.

Other fighters have the same pattern of SSB. "But SSB is the only game with banned stages and items." Because SSB has stages and items with too much randomness. Certain fighting games have banned characters because of a high degree of imbalance. Again, trying to push the winning edge of skill.

The only thing with SSB is the controls are easy to pick up so it draws a lot more casual players which increase the chance n00bs who think he should have a fair chance at a tournament because he thinks he's one of a kind.

YOU KNOW WHY YOU'RE OFFENDED?

There are always some inexperience player who play with their friends who think they can enter and win against people who play against people who literally train to get good. This applies to everything. Not just SSB.

But really why do you even bother to post and defend your "classification" or rather yourself? Because what Mookie said is true. What he said applies to you to some degree. It's not just because he's says "casuals are..." and you said to yourself "I am a casual, therefore he's talking about me without knowing me." You're offended because you belong in that category and think somehow you're different from other casual players.

But you're looking at it the wrong way. He's simply saying you're inexperienced so you follow patterns and react instinctively on what you think would work. Through experience and knowledge you can become better and know what works and what doesn't.

A competitive player will pick up on your inexperience and start to take advantage of a typical inexperience player. Anyone who pick up on any new game will do this. Even the best players right now started do it in the beginning. As time progress the competitive players started to pick up on good and bad patterns.

What gets me is how scrubs say competitive players somehow make the game less fun or even ruin the game for them.

WRONG. You do no have to enter a tournament. You can stay home play with your friends and have fun.

SUCH A COCKY PERSON!

Well, if you're good at something you would show some degree of arrogance. Not just games. People will brag in sports, strategy games, and even gambling if they win most of the time in their known area.

I mean, how many players have you meet that talk a lot of trash and turn out to be crap. I know I meet a lot. People who win against their friends and start bragging. You don't know any better.

Mookie's tone is based on his experience and pride. Good players turn out to be more understanding and try, just try, to stay more modest. But it's human nature to leak it out. You think what he says offends you now? Then you don't want to know what he really has on his mind.

YOU WANT TO WIN?

You don't like the rules? Fine, don't enter competitive tournaments. Make your own tournament. But if say a competitive player comes in your tournament what do you think is going to happen? You'll be on equal footing. Nope, I'm sorry you're not. He has a very high chance of winning still. You would then be relying on a lot luck. And if you do happen to win do you think it's because you're better? Nope, it's because you got VERY lucky, not because you're good.

Why do you think tournaments with items and stages with a lot of randomness don't so well? Because it's has too much luck factored in.

You want a fair chance of winning a big prize based on luck? Go play the lottery.

WHAT AM I GETTING AT?

Am I defending Mookie? Nah. I honest don't think he care for it. Although it might make him feel better someone is on the same page.

I'm just attacking you casual players who come and complain about the way competitive players play the game because you can't benefit from it.

Nintendo's default settings touches upon everything that game has to offer and makes the game a party game for anyone. Not because Nintendo thinks you need to play THAT way.

The game has settings to adjust so people can play the way the want. Competitive players play it the way we play for OUR own reasons. You can play the game the way YOU want for YOUR own reasons..

No one force you to play like competitive players. You can go play with your own crowd. You see the prize and just want to get in on it.

How old are YOU? 16 year olds and under? If you're older you should know better. Grow up. Why are YOU here? Why do YOU care? Because YOU want a piece of the pie and YOU think we should adjust the rules just for little ol' YOU?

Casual players who come and want to improve in their game in their own way are welcome to come and learn and pick up on some things from here and have fun in their own way. Casual players who complain about not having a chance in tournaments and being categorize by competitive players as scrubs need to go back where you belong. www.gamefaqs.com

 

[MookieRah]

This wasn't a life-or-death scenario, I didn't desperately need $50. I was playing a game against a vastly superior player, and from that point forward, I just had fun with it. Toying around, letting him beat me, but holding my own (I did get a single KO by making him laugh long enough to hit him with a smash attack.) It's not something I let get to me anymore, and you should try that sometime.

This is all an assumption on your part. Even if competitive players lose, we don't really fret too much.

I'm not saying let them win. I'm saying give them a chance, instead of completely crushing them.

You are applying ethics to a video game. From your own argument, it's just a game. Why do we have to sandbag for the sake of others?

Don't change the rules (I'm looking at you, GameStop managers on this board) to suit YOUR play style instead of going with something that allows everyone a fair chance.

Those rules don't give ANYONE a fair chance. Why? Because some importers have played the game for a month and in the standard rules there isn't a clause to let people even warm up who have yet to touch the game. On top of that I'm pretty sure that it will basically have items and smashballs, which then promote randomness. When two people of relative skill play then the outcome would likely be affected by one bit of randomness or the other, and it isn't fair to win or lose based on the luck of the draw.

One specific reason why I posted in this thread about breaking these rules was to show casual players who criticize the tournament scene why we use the rules that we do. If the rules can be exploited, they will be.

If this prize is so important to you, fine, have at it, but give those who haven't played competitively a chance to win, too. Otherwise, it's winning just for the sake of winning, without consideration being given to your opponent.

This is complete garbage... Like Yuna said... competition is about defining who is best. If you get thrashed by someone you don't deserve a spot in the next round, much less the freaking prize. Then you pull out "it's against Nintendo to do this"... I don't care what Nintendo thinks. They made a game and it's out of their hands now. Sakurai isn't going to come up to me and tell me he is disapointed that I used every trick in the book to work towards winning a tournament.

It was designed, if the evidence is to be believed (ex. Sakurai's explanation of the reasoning behind not having online ladders and rankings) to be a fun game for EVERYONE who played it,

It will be fun for those that play it, but you shouldn't focus on fun in a competition. The basis for every competitive sport and gaming scene is to provide a sterile environment to determined who is the most skillful. The point is not to have fun. There is fun through competing; however, the emphasis is on skill. It doesn't matter if Nintendo is involved, it's still a competition.

Calling those who don't play competitively "******", and saying they can't "play the game", is why I feel that you're not worth much as a tournament player.

I never said that people who don't play in tournaments are *******, and I never said they "can't play the game" what I and others have said is that by comparison they are playing a dumbed down game and they aren't nearly as skilled as the competitive scene. You and others get upset about this, but the fact remains that this is the truth. This isn't boasting or being an ***... it's really common sense. If people play this game competitively, travel to tournaments, stay informed with the metagame, and are always constantly trying to improve... they will be able to beat people who just play it with their friends from time to time.

Plus, who are you to say who Nintendo would feel was more "deserving" of the prize?

Nintendo doesn't give a crap. This is a gamestop tournament. Their feelings and opinion doesn't matter. What matters is that this is a competition and you should treat it as such. If someone is drastically better and can psyche out an opponent who doesn't know what they are doing, they deserve to win. Again, you are applying ethics to a video game... We are playing by the rules, and we are playing to win. I don't care if some 10 year old gets 4 stocked by me in the process, because in all honesty he probably shouldn't be there.

 

[f8lmatt]

The internet is Serious Business

 

[fr0st2k]

^ i cant believe i read all that. /sigh - in response to impacts post *edit

the biggest thing here is the definition of "casual" and the definition of "competitive player"

they both have slightly different meanings in the brawl community then they would outside of it. Noobies dont understand that.

Impact .. the way you use the word casual is like youre calling someone a ******.

"But you're looking at it the wrong way. He's simply saying you're inexperienced so you follow patterns and react instinctively on what you think would work."

This isnt the definition of a casual ... its the definition of someone who is stupid, or inexperienced at all games in general. If you fall into this category, even at the start of your smash career, i can assure you, you'll NEVER be a pro, no matter HOW much practice you put into the game. You simply did not grow up with a gaming mindset, and hence, will NEVER gain it.

A competitive player CAN fall into that category above. The way youre putting it is implying that a person who competes, ISNT a competitive player. But the person who is GOOD(actually good) at the game, IS.

Youre mincing definitions and confusing the noobs. Something should really be done about that.

 

[fr0st2k]

I don't care if some 10 year old gets 4 stocked by me in the process, because in all honesty he probably shouldn't be there.

you forgot to mention that, by the kid getting thrashed, over and over again, he is getting better and better each time. And in TIME, he will be able to hold his own.

 

[ImpactAR]

^ i cant believe i read all that. /sigh - in response to impacts post *edit

the biggest thing here is the definition of "casual" and the definition of "competitive player"

they both have slightly different meanings in the brawl community then they would outside of it. Noobies dont understand that.

Impact .. the way you use the word casual is like youre calling someone a ******.

"But you're looking at it the wrong way. He's simply saying you're inexperienced so you follow patterns and react instinctively on what you think would work."

This isnt the definition of a casual ... its the definition of someone who is stupid, or inexperienced at all games in general. If you fall into this category, even at the start of your smash career, i can assure you, you'll NEVER be a pro, no matter HOW much practice you put into the game. You simply did not grow up with a gaming mindset, and hence, will NEVER gain it.

A competitive player CAN fall into that category above. The way youre putting it is implying that a person who competes, ISNT a competitive player. But the person who is GOOD(actually good) at the game, IS.

Youre mincing definitions and confusing the noobs. Something should really be done about that.

Actually you and I are on the same page. It's a long post and I was just typing it up right off of my head.

But there are types of casuals. Two in my mind.

Casuals who play the game for fun and know that's all they want from it.

Casuals who play the game and think they're great without any experience. When they lose or have a disadvantage they make excuses. n00bs in a sense. The people I'm attacking are these right here.

But you're right. I need to go back and reword some things.

 

[MookieRah]

you forgot to mention that, by the kid getting thrashed, over and over again, he is getting better and better each time. And in TIME, he will be able to hold his own.

Not to mention the fact that if the kid came up to me later and asked for advice, not only would I give him advice and help him out, but I would get his email and send him out my Brawl friend code. I would then tell him about the smashboards too. The competitive scene isn't composed of *******s, and our views on things aren't out to alienate those who don't play the game competitively. I, nor is anyone who is skilled, is an *** for playing seriously against someone in a tournament who is a lesser player. I find it insulting to others to hold back to let them feel better... that is amazingly patronizing. If I thrash someone at a tournament, I usually talk to them after the match and tell them about the smashboards and try to be friendly and helpful.

For all those who attacked me for stuff I said in previous posts: Get off your high horse. If you actually knew who I was and what I typically advocate then you know that I am a helpful person and I'm nice to those who are nice to others. Yes, I got pumped up in this thread and said some things I probably shouldn't have; however, this was not directed towards every casual player. My spite is directed to all the casual players out there that invade forums to tell us how we are wrong in how we play and go about the game. These people are scrubs. They are very different from a simple casual player. Getting back to the topic of this paragraph, how are you (those that criticize me and tournament play heavily) so much morally greater when the vast majority of your group (scrubs) lurk around to antagonize each and every competitive player that says something that you don't agree with? Why do you even bother??? You are supposed to be casual, right? You guys take this game, and your code of ethics within games, way way way way way more seriously than any competitive player.

 

[Yuna]

fr0st2k:
I have no idea what the 360 you're talking about.

Casual Gamer:
Someone who doesn't take the game seriously, someone who doesn't try to stay at the top of the metagame, who doesn't research the game online, go to tournaments, play for money, etc.

Competitive Gamer:
Someone who does all that.

Right and Wrong:
Neither is right and wrong. It's just two different philosophies.

Scrub:
Someone who not only categorically refuses to use techniques and tactics they deem "cheap" and "overpowered" but who also whines when others do. This is wrong.

Scrubs are almost always Casuals.

Casuals and Competitives can exist side-by-side. Scrubs, however, cannot and should not exist side-by-side with anyone at all.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Last I heard, MookieRah was a good dude. You don't talk trash to good dudes.

 

[fr0st2k]

fr0st2k:
I have no idea what the 360 you're talking about.

Casual Gamer:
Someone who doesn't take the game seriously, someone who doesn't try to stay at the top of the metagame, who doesn't research the game online, go to tournaments, play for money, etc.

Competitive Gamer:
Someone who does all that.

Right and Wrong:
Neither is right and wrong. It's just two different philosophies.

Scrub:
Someone who not only categorically refuses to use techniques and tactics they deem "cheap" and "overpowered" but who also whines when others do. This is wrong.

Scrubs are almost always Casuals.

Casuals and Competitives can exist side-by-side. Scrubs, however, cannot and should not exist side-by-side with anyone at all.

so .. who exactly is someone who researches and does all the work, but doesnt go to tournaments? is that a casual player?

your definitions are so black and white, that they exclude a lot of people. do you get it now?

and lets add onto that. Casual gamer and Competitive gamer are not opposites.

Casual vs. Hardcore : Yes

Competitive vs Friendly : Yes

Casual vs Competitive : No

 

[SilentDrifterZ]

...you know I really like where this "Gamestop tip" thread went to a "The understanding of Casual/Competitive/all other categories gamers"

This is seriously starting to get out of hand and over a tournament. It's really simple. Either you enter, or you don't. Don't contemplate about it if it hasn't even happen yet.

 

[Yuna]

so .. who exactly is someone who researches and does all the work, but doesnt go to tournaments? is that a casual player?

You cannot be a competitive fighter gamer if you don't go to tournaments, this is a fact.

You can sit at home and practice how much you want, you need to play actual people to be competitive (and become good). You specifically need to play a lot of actual people to adapt to new styles and characters.

If you don't go to tournaments (at all, ever) but still try to stay at the top of the meta-game through, I don't know, reading on Smashboards and watching videos, then you're a competitive casual, I guess.

You can never become truly competitive until you experience the stuff you see in videos firsthand, though. Seeing is not the same as doing.

 

[ImpactAR]

...you know I really like where this "Gamestop tip" thread went to a "The understanding of Casual/Competitive/all other categories gamers"

This is seriously starting to get out of hand and over a tournament. It's really simple. Either you enter, or you don't. Don't contemplate about it if it hasn't even happen yet.

I have to agree. I thought this thread was a great topic. But once the topic started to talk about not characters, but patterns that people make when they aren't "competitive" people started to get offended.

Anyways, if we want to talk about the topic at hand. What are some specific strats against the seemly to be used the most characters. Metanight, Pit, and Ike.

 

[MookieRah]

so .. who exactly is someone who researches and does all the work, but doesnt go to tournaments? is that a casual player?

your definitions are so black and white, that they exclude a lot of people. do you get it now?

and lets add onto that. Casual gamer and Competitive gamer are not opposites.

Casual vs. Hardcore : Yes

Competitive vs Friendly : Yes

Casual vs Competitive : No

This is just a misunderstanding of our jargon. We refer to casual smashers as all the smashers that aren't competitive. We aren't saying that they aren't hardcore gamers. We aren't saying that they only play "casual" games. This should be something that comes as a no brainer simply by how people use the term casual player on the boards.

Why do people all the sudden become creatures of assumption whenever they log onto the internet? Seriously... all the casual players that I know in person never misunderstood this nor really found a reason to be upset by it. Then again, I'm in college and so they are much older and likely more mature than your average smashboarder, but seriously guys... learn to infer without over analyzing.

I have to agree. I thought this thread was a great topic. But once the topic started to talk about not characters, but patterns that people make when they aren't "competitive" people started to get offended.

Casual players don't have a reason to not use patterns. They aren't playing against the best players and they aren't actively seeking sources for the latest and best smash information. I'm not saying they run on patterns as an insult and trying to make them out as ********. Hell, I USED TO DO THAT! Even when I was learning I even said that I didn't adapt to my opponents, I would simply switch to a different habbit style that works against people that kinda/sorta play like my current opponent. When you realize the power of observation, things like that start to click. These are things that all of the good tournament players realize. People also refer to this as "taking control of the flow of the match" and "mindgaming" but honestly that is very cryptic for competitive newcomers. I spilled things out to people open and honestly, and even invited casual players to try this stuff out if they were attending the tournament.

 

[fr0st2k]

You cannot be a competitive fighter gamer if you don't go to tournaments, this is a fact.

You can sit at home and practice how much you want, you need to play actual people to be competitive (and become good). You specifically need to play a lot of actual people to adapt to new styles and characters.

If you don't go to tournaments (at all, ever) but still try to stay at the top of the meta-game through, I don't know, reading on Smashboards and watching videos, then you're a competitive casual, I guess.

You can never become truly competitive until you experience the stuff you see in videos firsthand, though. Seeing is not the same as doing.

thats precisely what im saying .. casual, and competitive have different meanings here on smashboards then somewhere else.

you use the world "casual" as an insult. Its not... You use the word competitive like you are some godly being...most people arent.

I dont disagree with you .. playing better people makes you a better player. Thats fact. But thats not what were arguing. The arguement is, are the words being used in the correct way? IMO, no they arent.

 

[fr0st2k]

This is just a misunderstanding of our jargon. We refer to casual smashers as all the smashers that aren't competitive. We aren't saying that they aren't hardcore gamers. We aren't saying that they only play "casual" games. This should be something that comes as a no brainer simply by how people use the term casual player on the boards.

Why do people all the sudden become creatures of assumption whenever they log onto the internet? Seriously... all the casual players that I know in person never misunderstood this nor really found a reason to be upset by it. Then again, I'm in college and so they are much older and likely more mature than your average smashboarder, but seriously guys... learn to infer without over analyzing.

hey ... dont preach to the choir. This is exactly what i said in the post Yuna was posting about, and that i responded to. THe original post to impacts post.

 

[MookieRah]

you use the world "casual" as an insult. Its not... You use the word competitive like you are some godly being...most people arent.

We don't use the word casual as an insult. We use it to define people who aren't competitive players. I never said competitive players are "some godly being" I just referred to them as being better smashers. When you make these kinds of assumptions things go downhill. I know that I wasn't specific in some of the stuff I was saying when I got into the thread, but I've already stated that these were more out of latent spite towards scrubs who find it necessary to go out of their way and tell me how I should play the game.

hey ... dont preach to the choir. This is exactly what i said in the post Yuna was posting about, and that i responded to. THe original post to impacts post.

Well I'm sorry about that; however, my intent was to respond to you specifically with the first paragraph. The second paragraph was more an open ended response to everyone in this thread that like to search for ways to demonize competitive players and wasn't directed towards anyone in general.

 

[Yuna]

thats precisely what im saying .. casual, and competitive have different meanings here on smashboards then somewhere else.

No it doesn't. Point me to a single community where the definition of "competitive gamer" isn't "someone who plays the game competitively" (and while it might not be a requirement, it's pretty hard to play the game competitively without having other competitive people to play against, like at tournaments or at least by having a very large number of competitive friends you can Smash a lot against).

you use the world "casual" as an insult. Its not... You use the word competitive like you are some godly being...most people arent.

Show me a single case of me myself, MookieRah or any competitive Smash using the word "casual" as an insult or "competitive" as an expletive. A single case of such behavior.

I have, however, used the word "Scrub", which isn't a synonym to "Casual" in its correct form and talked derisively of such Scrubs. I have, however, never used it as a direct insult as in "You're a scrub!" or something like that.

I dont disagree with you .. playing better people makes you a better player. Thats fact. But thats not what were arguing. The arguement is, are the words being used in the correct way? IMO, no they arent.

What you're arguing is downright lies.

Find me one single quote of a competitive gamer using the words Casual and Competitive in the ways you claim and I'll MM you for 1000 dollars as Pichu, a character I've played maybe 5-6 times during my entire lifetime.

 

[fr0st2k]

No it doesn't. Point me to a single community where the definition of "competitive gamer" isn't "someone who plays the game competitively" (and while it might not be a requirement, it's pretty hard to play the game competitively without having other competitive people to play against, like at tournaments or at least by having a very large number of competitive friends you can Smash a lot against).


Show me a single case of me myself, MookieRah or any competitive Smash using the word "casual" as an insult or "competitive" as an expletive. A single case of such behavior.

I have, however, used the word "Scrub", which isn't a synonym to "Casual" in its correct form and talked derisively of such Scrubs. I have, however, never used it as a direct insult as in "You're a scrub!" or something like that.


What you're arguing is downright lies.

Find me one single quote of a competitive gamer using the words Casual and Competitive in the ways you claim and I'll MM you for 1000 dollars as Pichu, a character I've played maybe 5-6 times during my entire lifetime.

i already quoted it ...here it is again .. this is the quote that MADE me type what i did.

"There are always some inexperience player who play with their friends who think they can enter and win against people who play against people who literally train to get good. This applies to everything. Not just SSB.

But really why do you even bother to post and defend your "classification" or rather yourself? Because what Mookie said is true. What he said applies to you to some degree. It's not just because he's says "casuals are..." and you said to yourself "I am a casual, therefore he's talking about me without knowing me." You're offended because you belong in that category and think somehow you're different from other casual players.

But you're looking at it the wrong way. He's simply saying you're inexperienced so you follow patterns and react instinctively on what you think would work. Through experience and knowledge you can become better and know what works and what doesn't."

This 100% implies that all "casuals" fall into this category.

Now...lets look back to what you said about competitive players ... Those who go to tournaments and compete. OK ... i have only visited 2 tournaments. I no longer do. So therefore, i am not competitive. However, i am NOT inexperienced, and I do not follow patterns and react instinctively on what i think would work. So...i am not casual. But im also not competitive. So on this board, due to the ill defined classes of people, i am nothing.

What else would you like me to say to you?

 

[Yuna]

How is any of that an insult?! He's saying that casual gamers are inexperienced. Of course Casual Gamers are inexperienced. And they should be because they're Casuals. There is nothing wrong with it.

While some of what he says is kinda wonky, none of it is an insult. "You're inexperienced" =/= An insult.

He also said that what MookieRah meant was that "Casual gamers generally...", not "All Casual Gamers...". And none of that was still an insult. Point me towards the parts that were insulting, please.

Everyone reacts instinctively and do what they think will work. That's what we do. It's just that we the Competitive Gamers have a better idea of what will and will not work since we have more experience.

 

[fr0st2k]

How is any of that an insult?! He's saying that casual gamers are inexperienced. Of course Casual Gamers are inexperienced. And they should be because they're Casuals. There is nothing wrong with it.

While some of what he says is kinda wonky, none of it is an insult. "You're inexperienced" =/= An insult.

He also said that what MookieRah meant was that "Casual gamers generally...", not "All Casual Gamers...". And none of that was still an insult. Point me towards the parts that were insulting, please.

Everyone reacts instinctively and do what they think will work. That's what we do. It's just that we the Competitive Gamers have a better idea of what will and will not work since we have more experience.

Im not arguing that its insulting. Despite whether or not that has been brought into the real argument or not is irrelevant. The only thing i said was that Casual and Competitive are badly defined on smashboards.

Even mookie agreed that they were defined differently. What are you arguing about??? I really think youre aruging just for the sake to argue.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

We don't use the word casual as an insult. We use it to define people who aren't competitive players. I never said competitive players are "some godly being" I just referred to them as being better smashers.

Just because one plays competitively does not make one better than another at the game, as both sides play how they want to, there is no better way to play than the other; as a casual player might believe playing for fun and not competitively is better for them. What I'm trying to say is, we're all Smashers and I can see how being told someone is better than you because you're casual can be a tad bit slight disheartening, at it's core; separation. Yes, granted, competitive Smashers may play the game better, but they are -not- better Smashers just because of -that- fact alone; understand?

Because after all, both sides play the game differently, is that not right Mookie. It's all about wording I guess. Granted however, I take Mookie's side in this argument in that he is not an *** that likes to bring casual players down.

 

[fr0st2k]

Lets add another scenario to this disagreement.

What if some noobie scrub decided to go to a tournament. He sucks...he has no skill in video games...yet he desperately wants to succeed.

He watches videos, he reads up on it, and plays in tournaments. But he lacks any talent whatsoever.

According to you, he is considered competitive, and thus, he is now instantly better than all the "casuals"

this is just totally untrue. And another reason why casual vs competitive is a stupid comparison.

And i honestly think you misunderstood my point when i stated ...

Competitive vs Friends [check]
Casual vs Hardcore [check]
Casual vs Competitive [makes no sense]

do you get it?

 

[Yuna]

Im not arguing that its insulting. Despite whether or not that has been brought into the real argument or not is irrelevant. The only thing i said was that Casual and Competitive are badly defined on smashboards.

Even mookie agreed that they were defined differently. What are you arguing about??? I really think youre aruging just for the sake to argue.

I'm sorry, what?

Let's take a look at our last couple of posts:

You:
you use the world "casual" as an insult. Its not... You use the word competitive like you are some godly being...most people arent.

Me:
Show me a single case of me myself, MookieRah or any competitive Smash using the word "casual" as an insult or "competitive" as an expletive. A single case of such behavior.

I have, however, used the word "Scrub", which isn't a synonym to "Casual" in its correct form and talked derisively of such Scrubs. I have, however, never used it as a direct insult as in "You're a scrub!" or something like that.

What you're arguing is downright lies.

Find me one single quote of a competitive gamer using the words Casual and Competitive in the ways you claim and I'll MM you for 1000 dollars as Pichu, a character I've played maybe 5-6 times during my entire lifetime.

You (quoting what I just quoted):
i already quoted it ...here it is again .. this is the quote that MADE me type what i did.

*quote of ImpactAR:s post*



I'm sorry if I somehow misconstrued this as you telling me that this quotes is the quote I asked for in which you were to quote a single competitive player using the word "Casual" as an insult and "Competitive" as an expletive. I really am!

How dare I interpret your post that way! Shame on me! MookieRah, you should give me 12 warning points for this!

If that wasn't you trying to prove your claim (more like "filthy lies") of how "we" use the words "Casual" and "Competitive", then the challenge still stands. You claim "we" use "Casual" as an insult and "Competitive" as an expletive. Prove it.

 

[ImpactAR]

Okay, now you're missing the point of what I'm saying.

I never said anything about all casuals are all the same. Even before I fixed my post I stated there are two types of casual players in my mind.

ONE are the ones who play for fun and don't care for anything much outside fun.

SECOND are the ones think they good because they simply think they were blessed or something.

Both are inexperienced. That is not an insult. Everyone at one point is inexperienced. Everyone at one point react instinctively to what they assume will work. As you gain experience you'll know what is effective and what is not.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Say what you will about definition. Looks like everyone will have their own version. But "casuals" players does not put as much effort, practice, or mental thought in the activity of their choice as"competitive players."

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Lets add another scenario to this disagreement.

What if some noobie scrub decided to go to a tournament. He sucks...he has no skill in video games...yet he desperately wants to succeed.

He watches videos, he reads up on it, and plays in tournaments. But he lacks any talent whatsoever.

According to you, he is considered competitive, and thus, he is now instantly better than all the "casuals"

this is just totally untrue. And another reason why casual vs competitive is a stupid comparison.

Actually, he could read up on it and play, but one would still need the experience and skill needed to be considered truly competitive scene worthy, much like someone in an mmorpg needs to reach level 70 for say, a job or title upgrade; understand?

 

[JTB]

Man, the brawl boards are full of ******** people.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Man, the brawl boards are full of ******** people.

That's almost sig worthy. You get a thumbs up.

 

[Yuna]

Lets add another scenario to this disagreement.

What if some noobie scrub decided to go to a tournament. He sucks...he has no skill in video games...yet he desperately wants to succeed.

He watches videos, he reads up on it, and plays in tournaments. But he lacks any talent whatsoever.

According to you, he is considered competitive, and thus, he is now instantly better than all the "casuals"

this is just totally untrue. And another reason why casual vs competitive is a stupid comparison.

And i honestly think you misunderstood my point when i stated ...

No one ever said all Competitive Gamers are automatically better than Casual Gamers.

But if you want to be truly good, you have to be Competitive. However, the Top Casuals can beat the Bottom Competitive, much like how the Top Amateurs in any sports can probably still beat the Bottom Pros.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

That's almost sig worthy. You get a thumbs up.

Meh I don't know, it's kind of pessimistic, I don't really like thinking our community is full of idiots, granted theres a few, it just can't be -that- many.

 

[ImpactAR]

No one said competitive players are better than casual players.

A dumb competitive player could lose to a smart casual player.

The chance of it is unlikely because the competitive player would know more effective strategies, but it may be possible.

A competitive player tend to take the extra mile to gain knowledge and experience to be good while casual player just goes with whatever.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Meh I don't know, it's kind of pessimistic, I don't really like thinking our community is full of idiots, granted theres a few, it just can't be -that- many.

A valid point. It's a sad truth that while it may not necessarily be MORE, simply more that are loud.

 

[Gesi1223]

I like how this thread turned into another stupid and endless "Casual players and competitive players don't mix" debate.

 

[fr0st2k]

I'm sorry if I somehow misconstrued this as you telling me that this quotes is the quote I asked for in which you were to quote a single competitive player using the word "Casual" as an insult and "Competitive" as an expletive. I really am!

How dare I interpret your post that way! Shame on me! MookieRah, you should give me 12 warning points for this!

If that wasn't you trying to prove your claim (more like "filthy lies") of how "we" use the words "Casual" and "Competitive", then the challenge still stands. You claim "we" use "Casual" as an insult and "Competitive" as an expletive. Prove it.

what?!?!

Lets summarize all i meant by this, before you blew it way out of proportion. I decided to bold my words so maybe you can understand it.

first off ... reread what you posted. It makes so little sense. Are you overly frustrated or something? You typically write well.

Second. Lets summarize what i was trying to say.

Impact used the term Casual, and implied that everyone who was casual was inexperienced and played poorly. Yes, this is the quote i used to counter you bet.

You said that this wasnt an insult. The fact of whether its an insult or not is irrelevant. My argument directed towards the inconsistinces that are brought about by using only 2 words to describe the smash community.

PERHAPS, years ago, when there were about 30 people on this board at any given time, those 2 words were simple enough to describe the smash community. But now, with over 500 people on at any time, the community has grown. 2 words, with absolutely no relevance to each other, are not good enough to describe people on smash.

However, the "competitive" players, still use them as if they were related in some form.

You know what this implies? YES! My original point. That smashboards have developed a relationship between two words which have no relationship outside of this forum.

I really dont know what else to tell you

 

[Kirby M.D.]

Meh I don't know, it's kind of pessimistic, I don't really like thinking our community is full of idiots, granted theres a few, it just can't be -that- many.

Yeah, it's just the internet, so people get angry easily. It is SERIOUS BUSINESS and all. Anyway, all of this **** and misinformation could have been avoided with some well-chosen words. I love you Mookie, and you've kept a sense of authority about you throughout this whole debacle; but this might have been a bad place to post this thread. We're all fanboyish for Brawl, and some of us overreact on both sides. Granted, the choice of words in the first few offending posts were (probably unintentionally) incisive. That, and if you give some posters an inch, they'll take a mile. This thread got messed up due to a long chain of misunderstandings, do we have anything relevant to talk about in it anymore?