Game Play and Technical Analysis

[Mighty_Guy100]

At 5:01 of the direct, wii fit trainer dashes toward bowser and F-smashes pretty quickly.

(90% sure that's a F-smash since she puts her hands to her side instead of the middle)

Could you always act this fast out of initial-dashes with something that's not a grab or U-smash?

 

[Renji64]

People on this community like things to be hard for the sake of being hard, look at L-Cancelling and the fact that Project M still has it. I think grabbing the ledges backwards was one of the best mechanics from Brawl, I mean, it makes no sense that such agile characters like Mario, Sonic or Samus can't grab the ledge while facing backwards. I also like how there's still a little bit of ledgesnap, but not as ridiculous as Brawl's, recovering on Project M and Melee feels like an overly-precise chore, I mean, having to sweetspot the ledge every time? That's a little ridiculous.

To be fair you want everything to be easy and take no effort.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

To be fair you want everything to be easy and take no effort.

He has a valid point about L-canceling. It has no real reason to exist, it's a needless tech barrier. Wave dashing is whatever, it's input is just stupid.

 

[BigHairyFart]

He has a valid point about L-canceling. It has no real reason to exist, it's a needless tech barrier. Wave dashing is whatever, it's input is just stupid.

I like L-Cancelling. It's not game-breaking or obnoxious, but those that care to do it have a bit of an edge over those who don't, while people who don't care to do it aren't really hurting their own fun.
Wavedashing is just a pointless tech to me. It looks gross and unnatural, especially when you see these "high-level players" using it at every possible chance rather than moving normally.

 

[Renji64]

He has a valid point about L-canceling. It has no real reason to exist, it's a needless tech barrier. Wave dashing is whatever, it's input is just stupid.

Having less Lag on moves is never bad I can understand people not like how to perform it but L-canceling it's self itsn't bad. Wavedashing is a good movement option. Sounds like lazyness to me. People who know to L cancel or Wavedash doesn't mean they can use them effectively. All games require inputs.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Having less Lag on moves is never bad I can understand people not like how to perform it but L-canceling it's self itsn't bad. Wavedashing is a good movement option. Sounds like lazyness to me. People who know to L cancel or Wavedash doesn't mean they can use them effectively. All games require inputs.

The reason L-canceling is bad, is because there is no reason for it to be there. you press the L-button as you land in an air attack to lessen the landing lag, correct? and landing lag is bad right? So why wouldn't you ever L-cancel? That's the problem right there. There are no disadvantages for doing it, and no advantages for not doing it. As opposed to the game having the lessen landing lag as the default landing lag, it forces you to press a button with timing to lessen the lag yourself. Which you should always do, might I add. it's just an added technical barrier that doesn't really add much depth. Wave dashing, I don't really have an opinion on though. I just feel the input for it, is a little wonky. That's because it's abusing the air dodge's physics, and isn't a natural movement.

 

[R0Y]

I wonder if slowdown will happen much. The resolution and frame rate is quite ambitious for a game of this scale on Wii U, even if it is a side-to-side fighter. Smash games also don't seem to drop frames, so at the expense of speed the game will probably go slow-mo to maintain 60 frames of input and movement.

 

[Second Power]

Let's not derail this thread with a discussion on l-cancelling that's been had a thousand times. I'm interested if what @ Mighty_Guy100 posted is correct. I just watched the clip he's talking about, it certainly looks of though Wii Fit starts charging a smash but is interrupted. To my (albeit pretty uneducated eyes), it seemed like there wasn't even an animation to end the dash, and no deceleration, she simply stopped. Isn't that new?

 

[[TSON]]

Let's not derail this thread with a discussion on l-cancelling that's been had a thousand times. I'm interested if what @ Mighty_Guy100 posted is correct. I just watched the clip he's talking about, it certainly looks of though Wii Fit starts charging a smash but is interrupted. To my (albeit pretty uneducated eyes), it seemed like there wasn't even an animation to end the dash, and no deceleration, she simply stopped. Isn't that new?

That's weird. You can see like a frame or two of what looks to be a skid animation before the fsmash. We know skids can be acted out of faster, but what if they're completely interruptable?

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

That's weird. You can see like a frame or two of what looks to be a skid animation before the fsmash. We know skids can be acted out of faster, but what if they're completely interruptable?

That would be sweet. We see character initial-dash ALOT though out the direct so maybe sakurai made it (more) useful.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Let's not derail this thread with a discussion on l-cancelling that's been had a thousand times. I'm interested if what @ Mighty_Guy100 posted is correct. I just watched the clip he's talking about, it certainly looks of though Wii Fit starts charging a smash but is interrupted. To my (albeit pretty uneducated eyes), it seemed like there wasn't even an animation to end the dash, and no deceleration, she simply stopped. Isn't that new?

Watching at 0.25x speed, it looks to me like WFT does come to a stop, but only briefly.

 

[Bobojack]

I don't know, if this was discussed yet but...
Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3w98wf0eY&list=UUhqY2TO8vmLxtxhUi9jeuqA (sorry for using your video D1 ) and look at Villager after his back air (the slingshot) at 24:00. There is almost no lag, when he lands, even less then his normal landing lag, as you can see 1-2 secs afterwards. If you watch this Video at 2:59: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ, you can see that Villager has much more landing lag after his back-air! I know that it could have been changed but his normal landing lag is still worse than the landing lag of his bair, what seems kinda strange…
Did I miss something or is there l-cancel potential? Let me know, if you have an opinion about this!

 

[[TSON]]

I don't know, if this was discussed yet but...
Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3w98wf0eY&list=UUhqY2TO8vmLxtxhUi9jeuqA (sorry for using your video D1 ) and look at Villager after his back air (the slingshot) at 24:00. There is almost no lag, when he lands, even less then his normal landing lag, as you can see 1-2 secs afterwards. If you watch this Video at 2:59: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQD1yJinzeQ, you can see that Villager has much more landing lag after his back-air! I know that it could have been changed but his normal landing lag is still worse than the landing lag of his bair, what seems kinda strange…
Did I miss something or is there l-cancel potential? Let me know, if you have an opinion about this!

That's an autocancel.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Auto-canceling

 

[Bobojack]

Oh ok… I guess its still a good thing. (If it wasn't shown already)

 

[Aeronite's Kiseki]

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice we haven't gotten 3DS final smashes?

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Well that depends on character. I played Ness in melee and brawl, so I already had to be precise. It felt like a godsend since I could vary my timing more and make it harder for the opponent to eff up my recovery. I also played wolf occasionally in brawl who had almost no magnetism.... It was hella hard to recover with those two from certain angles. The whole "too difficult to edge guard" argument only really applies to characters with great recovery, most of whom are the few in the "top tier".

I can vouch for Wolf, at least with his Up-B. That thing's inability to grab the ledge in Brawl made it seem as though his arms were as short as a Trex, relative to his own body of course.

 

[D-idara]

I wonder if slowdown will happen much. The resolution and frame rate is quite ambitious for a game of this scale on Wii U, even if it is a side-to-side fighter. Smash games also don't seem to drop frames, so at the expense of speed the game will probably go slow-mo to maintain 60 frames of input and movement.

I think you're enormously underestimating the Wii U.

 

[MAGMIS]

The next SSB looks like Sakurai is not "only" just caring about the casuals anymore, but both categories casual/competitive gameplay. Wonder how bad is it going to be when playing speed between brawl and melee. I <3 melee gamespeed. hopefully it doesn't feel much of a difference.

 

[Prototype]

Pic of the day. Tether recovery? Yes, you can! And from even longer range than before. Multiple fighters can latch on--who actually grabs hold is determined by the same rules as the standard ledge grab.

Any thoughts? I found the wording quite confusing.
I'm assuming it means that the player who grabs the ledge first will be given the set amount of invincibility similar to the standard ledge grab.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

A couple things I noticed. Momentum with jumps has either changed for characters who short hop or it works differently all together.

On D1's video at around 5:00 you can see Bowser short hop and cover a great distance, then jump again and not cover as much. It is also seen when Zelda jumps on the side scrolling Mario stage; she darts forward rather quickly.

Also in the Yoshi video when he was Fighting Mario Yoshi did a charged D-smash right out of the roll, and again, did his neutral B out of a roll on Mario. Either Yoshi has cancelable/no shield drop lag or there are new rolling mechanics implemented.

 

[Shariq]

Any thoughts? I found the wording quite confusing.
I'm assuming it means that the player who grabs the ledge first will be given the set amount of invincibility similar to the standard ledge grab.

Yeah thats what it most likely is. It's good to see tethers getting a buff.

 

[Shariq]

This thread needs to be a sticky, seriously. From this thread alone my hype levels have increased quite a bit. Also some of the theories are really good. Especially the smoke trail being a visual indicator of hitstun.

 

[Empyrean]

The new tether mechanic is highly interesting. It seems Link will benefit the most from this. I also suspect that it might be fairly easy to possibly edgeguard a tether recovery, say, in Link's case in that image, Samus could do a drop-down nair after grabbing the ledge. Regardless, we still need more info before making any grounded conclusions.

@ E Eternal phoenix Fire If that is the case, then it is indeed good news. I need to go take a look whenever I get the chance, as I hadn't noticed anything previously concerning momentum. Also, rolls in general seem to have a lot less lag in general and a faster start-up, but I am unsure if it's just limited to certain characters or is the same for all of the cast.

 

[Gameboi834]

Those tethers are hella long doe. I noticed that before seeing that two people had latched on.

Also, just an aesthetic thing, Link's using a Clawshot rather than a Hookshot.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Those tethers are hella long doe. I noticed that before seeing that two people had latched on.

Also, just an aesthetic thing, Link's using a Clawshot rather than a Hookshot.

Well, it makes sense, since he used a Clawshot in Brawl, and his new model is basically just that, but prettier.
Also, Clawshot>Hookshot in general.

 

[Big-Cat]

What's with the weird lines connecting Samus and Link?

 

[MAGMIS]

It looks like those lines are coming from samus? a move?

 

[Prototype]

What's with the weird lines connecting Samus and Link?

That's just part of the background of BF. Haha.
You can see the same chains elsewhere on the stage.

 

[mimgrim]

Any thoughts? I found the wording quite confusing.
I'm assuming it means that the player who grabs the ledge first will be given the set amount of invincibility similar to the standard ledge grab.

Now that is a buff for Link.

 

[[TSON]]

Any thoughts? I found the wording quite confusing.
I'm assuming it means that the player who grabs the ledge first will be given the set amount of invincibility similar to the standard ledge grab.

That Project-M-fluence just won't let up

 

[Shariq]

That Project-M-fluence just won't let up

Project Mewtwo

 

[[TSON]]

More stuff:

- Swimming might not be back, at least on Japes (Fox falls into the water during the jungle japes clip, there's no splash, & he immediately jumps out and it looks like the water is just a windbox that pushes you while you're in your falling animation.)
- Attack-induced tripping is back
- I'm starting to think that turning animations are faster & transition into dash again or there's a special turning animation for turning during dash that goes into dash now and that's what those "Dash dances" are that we keep seeing... Dash dances never had a turning animation before, so that would be a small nerf but a nice visual change.
- DK's dash attack can roll off ledges
- Pivot grabs are returning

 

[Shariq]

Those chains from the background which look like they are linking Samus and Link actually gave me an idea for a team battle game mode. For example in a 2 vs 2 team match, players on the same team get linked together by a rubber band like rope. This would pull them towards each other if they stray to far from one another. Lets say one team mate gets sent flying then the other team mate would pulled towards them with rubber band like physics. Or you could help a team mate recover by jumping and using your recovery to pull them back to the stage if they cant make it. It would make for some hilarious and fun matches which would require new tactics. I know it probably sounds really silly and dumb and will probably never happen. But I like the idea personally.

 

[Prototype]

- DK's dash attack can roll off ledges
- Pivot grabs are returning

Where did you find these things?

 

[VhatDeHel]

Where did you find these things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYb38UBQB4

0:52, top right corner

 

[[TSON]]

Where did you find these things?

For the DK dash attack, there's a Smash Run clip where he rolls off a ledge with it.
Pivot grabs (specifically Mario's) happens in the MM vs. Mario video. It looks like a really awkward animation, but it's definitely a pivot grab.

 

[Prototype]

For the DK dash attack, there's a Smash Run clip where he rolls off a ledge with it.
Pivot grabs (specifically Mario's) happens in the MM vs. Mario video. It looks like a really awkward animation, but it's definitely a pivot grab.

Good find! I wonder if the hitbox will stay out for long after he leaves the edge.

 

[2ndComing]

That Project-M-fluence just won't let up

In all honesty, I think its Melee mostly because they wanted tethers to work like they did in melee, not brawl but it was left it because they couldn't change it

Smash seems to build on its fundamental flaws sometimes

 

[DaDavid]

So two people latch on but only one can actually pull up and grab the ledge, based on the previously explained edge rules? Interesting.

 

[Jalio_the_Brave]

So two people latch on but only one can actually pull up and grab the ledge, based on the previously explained edge rules? Interesting.

I see it being a huge mind game tactic. Because if you pull up first, you risk being trumped by the other person. However, if you wait to latch, you run the risk of being meteor smashed