Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[ATH_]

Figure out what attacks you have that have a hitbox out for more than a few frames. Then use that attack when the airdodge is coming to an end to basically guarantee a hit.You also have to trace your opponent, if that wasn't clear.

 

[Mrawesome48]

I have tried multiple characters and i get the same result even against the computers.

 

[Thinkaman]

There is almost never a guaranteed way to land a hit--good thing, too, because that would be a pretty awful game!

You have to read (guess, based on the opponent's behavior and style) when they are going to air dodge. Will they dodge right away, or wait?

If the opponent is going to dodge right away, as CPUs often do, you can wait a moment and attack a half-second later. (At the end of their dodge.)

 

[HeroMystic]

I have tried multiple characters and i get the same result even against the computers.

It sounds like you're very impatient when fighting. It's okay to wait and get a good opportunity to attack.

I would suggest watching tournament videos and watching players bait out air dodges or defensive options in general, and look at how they punish.

 

[Mrawesome48]

It sounds like you're very impatient when fighting. It's okay to wait and get a good opportunity to attack.

I would suggest watching tournament videos and watching players bait out air dodges or defensive options in general, and look at how they punish.

Im not impatient im doing simple combos like dthrow-upair only difference is that they can land the hit and i cant.

 

[Kofu]

Im not impatient im doing simple combos like dthrow-upair only difference is that they can land the hit and i cant.

It could be explained by your opponents DIing to make the followup harder, or you might not be getting UAir out soon enough. A lot of throw combos can be foiled this way.

 

[Funkermonster]

Is perfect pivoting doable on a wii u gamepad? I have no GCN Adapter or any better controller so its all I can use for now.

Also, what's B-reversing and how is it performed?

 

[Jeronado]

When someone says a character has "good frame-data" what exactly does that mean? Is it just related to how many frames of lag they have at the beginning and end of their moves?

 

[Thinkaman]

When someone says a character has "good frame-data" what exactly does that mean? Is it just related to how many frames of lag they have at the beginning and end of their moves?

Pretty much.

Note that we have no hard, automated data on the latter at this time.

 

[dragontamer]

Is perfect pivoting doable on a wii u gamepad? I have no GCN Adapter or any better controller so its all I can use for now.

Perfect Pivoting was originally done on the 3DS controller.

I've done it on a 3DS as well, but I've stopped abusing my 3DS because I don't want to repair its control stick. But yes, even on a 3DS controller, fingers can be trained to do perfect pivoting just fine.

Also, what's B-reversing and how is it performed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0jgnFEZqLY

This one is much easier to do than it looks. You need to see this one before you can do it however. The timing is relatively strict, but you'll be able to do this one in just a few practice sessions. The main issue is that the timing is massively different on different characters.

Turn-around B, B-Reversals, and Wavebouncing are all the same technique really. But the implied change in momentum (B-reversals "float" a different direction. WaveBounce sorta "loops" a little bit) makes it useful to have different terms describing the situation. But its simply hit the "B" button, then hit left or right immediately afterwards. (where the "immediately" timing depending on the character)

So if you're gonna start practicing B-Reversals, you'll probably want to choose a specific character to master first.

 

[Chickenmcdonky]

So this has been bugging me for a while.

I've been launched into the air and I want to get my feet back on the ground, but my opponent says no. So I attempt an airdodge. He waits it out and punishes. Next fall i wait a half second later and do it as soon as he jumps. At this point he seems to flat out IGNORE it and hit me anyway. What exactly is going on here? People airdodge me all the time by doing this sort of thing. Am I just that easy to predict or am i timing it wrong?

 

[Dwiz]

Much like a ground dodge, you have a few frames at the beginning and end of a dodge where you can't input anything but have no invincibility. Your opponent is likely hitting you in these frames.

 

[LogicallyHank]

Are there any guides for players that are just getting into competitive Sm4sh?

 

[smashbroskilla]

What am I doing wrong against Sonic? I main Captain Falcon, Ness, Dedede, Falco, Donkey Kong. I do well with Falco and Ness but I still struggle and every match against a decent Sonic is a struggle for me. What are Sonic's disadvantages and moves I should be looking to punish? I never played Sonic but started to play him last night in order to better understand him. Any advice?

 

[Mrawesome48]

It could be explained by your opponents DIing to make the followup harder, or you might not be getting UAir out soon enough. A lot of throw combos can be foiled this way.

I've been playing with people locally and online and im throwing out u airs faster than they are and none of them are connecting. Like this is an every game thing. I cannot get a single aerial to connect. I'm spending hours and hours and nothing is working

 

[Smog Frog]

alright, so in an attempt to get better, i have come to 3 options:

train my friends to get good so i can practice against them
go on FG and practice
find a place online with matchmaking services

which do you all think is the best choice

 

[mimgrim]

alright, so in an attempt to get better, i have come to 3 options:

train my friends to get good so i can practice against them
go on FG and practice
find a place online with matchmaking services

which do you all think is the best choice

Option 4; Find a local Smash scene. This site has regional zones, http://smashboards.com/forums/regional-zones.89/ , that you can go to to find your area and see if there is a local Smash scene, you could also try FB. And with this option you can also take a friend(s) with you for them to get better so you have a training partner(s) so you can play more. And you can find an online ladder if you want to as well. You don't have to limit yourself to only one.

 

[Smog Frog]

Option 4; Find a local Smash scene. This site has regional zones, http://smashboards.com/forums/regional-zones.89/ , that you can go to to find your area and see if there is a local Smash scene, you could also try FB. And with this option you can also take a friend(s) with you for them to get better so you have a training partner(s) so you can play more. And you can find an online ladder if you want to as well. You don't have to limit yourself to only one.

the reason i left out option 4 is because there isnt a scene where i live and i cant even go to one even if there was one, because i'm only 13 =/ if i had that option i certainly would take it

 

[Artmastercorey]

the reason i left out option 4 is because there isnt a scene where i live and i cant even go to one even if there was one, because i'm only 13 =/ if i had that option i certainly would take it

if theres no local scene I'd try to find an online scene like here for example and play against the good players. I think every character section has a social thread.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I saw on the front page a video that rosalina and luma can cancel out their landing lag with an aerial. Is this possible for every character as I use toonlink and his landing lag is hideous.

 

[Shin Chie]

I have a really time figuring out an opponent's habits and making the right decisions in a match. I lose most of my matches because of really stupid mistakes I make. Is there anyway I can improve?

 

[Kofu]

I saw on the front page a video that rosalina and luma can cancel out their landing lag with an aerial. Is this possible for every character as I use toonlink and his landing lag is hideous.

To a degree. They're specifically referring to airdodge landing lag. Before landing after using an airdodge close to the ground, there's a small window where one can use another attack. The key is to use the aerial that will have the fewest frames of landing lag; I'm not sure which of Toon Link's aerials fits that description. If you're talking about his DAir landing lag (which, AFAIK is the only one of Toon Link's aerials with significant lag), tough luck. The move is laggy; stop trying to land with it.

I have a really time figuring out an opponent's habits and making the right decisions in a match. I lose most of my matches because of really stupid mistakes I make. Is there anyway I can improve?

Honestly? Just practice. Learn which of your moves are good for spacing, which ones are good for comboing, and which ones are good for killing. If you feel yourself being punished for some action constantly, try to mix it up and do other things. When you have a match you feel you could have won if not for mistakes, record it, then watch it and figure out what you could have done better. Try to find matches of your character by better players and watch them to try to learn from them.

 

[Artmastercorey]

To a degree. They're specifically referring to airdodge landing lag. Before landing after using an airdodge close to the ground, there's a small window where one can use another attack. The key is to use the aerial that will have the fewest frames of landing lag; I'm not sure which of Toon Link's aerials fits that description. If you're talking about his DAir landing lag (which, AFAIK is the only one of Toon Link's aerials with significant lag), tough luck. The move is laggy; stop trying to land with it.
.

Thanks for your reply Kofu, yeah it seems toonlink lags on most of his aerials when he lands. (its on and off and im not sure why it happens when it does). By that I mean i do an attack in the air like a neutral a or fair or something and he lands there a 1 second get up animation that plays preventing me from shielding. I often find myself getting killed because I cant shield in time. Its alittle annoying where as link doesnt seem to suffer so much from this. Anyway thanks for your reply this is something I'd probably have to post in the character specific thread. I just wanted to know if this is something all characters can do to reduce landing lag from an aerial.

 

[mimgrim]

I have a really time figuring out an opponent's habits and making the right decisions in a match. I lose most of my matches because of really stupid mistakes I make. Is there anyway I can improve?

Just keep on playing against people. There isn't any magical way to improve at getting better at adapting at opponents and getting out of bad habits. The more you play the better you will get at figuring out the opponents habits while also trying to get rid of your bad habits.

 

[Mrawesome48]

Is there anyone who can help me learn how to attack someone in the air. Been trying for weeks now. Everyone air dodges out of any aerials i cannot hit anyone in the air. I have tried multiple characters and nothing is working but when everyone'e else does an aerial they connect. It's gotten to the point now that once im in the air im there until i lose a stock. I've tried air dodging, fast falling, countering you name it. I just keep getting pummeled in the air till i die.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

Is it necessary to learn how to perfect pivot to get better at the game? I play on 3DS, and while perfect pivoting was discovered on the 3DS version, I don't think it was really a big thing at the time.

 

[CrazyPerson]

So some general questions.

I have casually played Smash for quite a while... and by casually I mean the extent of most of my tactics is use normal and specials to bring my foes damage up then try to land a smash attack... and dodge everything thrown my way with... let's say varying degrees of success... and run after items. (Which I know aren't used in competitive play)

I know I won't have the time to become a top player but I want to learn and implement some of the tactics used by those who do well in tournaments. I am playing the Wii U version.

I have tried to find some guides... but a lot of the terminology used is foreign to me. Any guides on those basics?

2ndly, I find myself reverting to my instincts and not realizing it for a bit... any ideas how to stop that?

3. What are the 1st advanced tactics a player should work on?

4. How should I train these? Any good CPU to go against?

5. Are there any good youtube channels for studying the pro tournaments?

Thanks in advance for any responces!

 

[M15t3R E]

Is it necessary to learn how to perfect pivot to get better at the game? I play on 3DS, and while perfect pivoting was discovered on the 3DS version, I don't think it was really a big thing at the time.

That still remains to be seen. While the perfect pivot has been called the new wavedash (this is an exaggeration), it can be useful. Nevertheless, it's rarely seen at high levels of play thus far. So I'm wondering if some top player is going to demonstrate how useful it can be in tournament sometime soon.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Are there any guides for players that are just getting into competitive Sm4sh?

I am wondering this too... if nothing else I'd like explanations of a lot of the terms I am hearing and how to perform them.

 

[Shaya]

@ C CrazyPerson

http://smashboards.com/threads/a-guide-to-becoming-a-competitive-smash-4-player.370561/

 

[M15t3R E]

So some general questions.

I have casually played Smash for quite a while... and by casually I mean the extent of most of my tactics is use normal and specials to bring my foes damage up then try to land a smash attack... and dodge everything thrown my way with... let's say varying degrees of success... and run after items. (Which I know aren't used in competitive play)

I know I won't have the time to become a top player but I want to learn and implement some of the tactics used by those who do well in tournaments. I am playing the Wii U version.

I have tried to find some guides... but a lot of the terminology used is foreign to me. Any guides on those basics?

2ndly, I find myself reverting to my instincts and not realizing it for a bit... any ideas how to stop that?

3. What are the 1st advanced tactics a player should work on?

4. How should I train these? Any good CPU to go against?

5. Are there any good youtube channels for studying the pro tournaments?

Thanks in advance for any responces!

First of all, welcome to SmashBoards! Knowledge is power, and SmashBoards is a plethora of knowledge.

1.This guide defines every smash term you'll ever need to know: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-dictionary.374538/
2. Short answer is that practice and watching videos helps you to break bad habits. What do your instincts make you do? This can be good or bad at times. Some people's instincts tell them to roll constantly and they get punished for it. Other times instincts may tell you to dash and up smash that poor landing from your opponent. This would be a good thing. Tell us what you do on instinct.
3. The universal techniques have to come first. Do you know how to DI, fast fall, Short hop, tech chase, wall/floor tech, pivot grab, angle your shield? If so, now go to your character's section and look up their mindgames, combos, AT's, and how they play the neutral game, off-stage, and ledgeplay.
4. If you don't have a human opponent, level 3-6 computers are generally advised.
5. Check out Clash Tournaments, VGBootcamp, and Shi-Gaming on youtube. There are excellent matches there updated frequently.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

That still remains to be seen. While the perfect pivot has been called the new wavedash (this is an exaggeration), it can be useful. Nevertheless, it's rarely seen at high levels of play thus far. So I'm wondering if some top player is going to demonstrate how useful it can be in tournament sometime soon.

Okay, so what general techniques should definitely be learned?

 

[CrazyPerson]

First of all, welcome to SmashBoards! Knowledge is power, and SmashBoards is a plethora of knowledge.

1.This guide defines every smash term you'll ever need to know:

Had to edit out link because of post count,but I will look into that later.

2. Short answer is that practice and watching videos helps you to break bad habits. What do your instincts make you do? This can be good or bad at times. Some people's instincts tell them to roll constantly and they get punished for it. Other times instincts may tell you to dash and up smash that poor landing from your opponent. This would be a good thing. Tell us what you do on instinct.

I do a lot of side dodging while not doing much/any shielding, or grabbing. Im trying to work those into my games... but at least against computers (and i would prefer to practice there before battling friends and getting slaughtered even worse) they counter that much better than the side dodges... but I know im being way to predictable for a human opponent.My air game is minimal at best with most characters... and an aspect I have always struggled to pick up.

3. The universal techniques have to come first. Do you know how to DI, fast fall, Short hop, tech chase, wall/floor tech, pivot grab, angle your shield? If so, now go to your character's section and look up their mindgames, combos, AT's, and how they play the neutral game, off-stage, and ledgeplay.

Not sure what most of those mean, but I now have some stuff to look up.

4. If you don't have a human opponent, level 3-6 computers are generally advised.

At this point I don't... if life allows me I might look for a local smash scene but not sure it will happen anytime soon.

5. Check out Clash Tournaments, VGBootcamp, and Shi-Gaming on youtube. There are excellent matches there updated frequently.

Will do, thanks.

 

[Death Arcana]

is there an updated copy of smash 4 landing lag for all aerials and air dodges like this one?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uwEvYc82aUOUJ22_NE_oK3LlmUglglrwN0_A_aiTKlM/edit#gid=0

 

[GSM_Dren]

Is there anyone who can help me learn how to attack someone in the air. Been trying for weeks now. Everyone air dodges out of any aerials i cannot hit anyone in the air. I have tried multiple characters and nothing is working but when everyone'e else does an aerial they connect. It's gotten to the point now that once im in the air im there until i lose a stock. I've tried air dodging, fast falling, countering you name it. I just keep getting pummeled in the air till i die.

Is there any way you could post a replay video of yourself? From what others have said above, it sounds like you're getting too frustrated with yourself over not being able to hit with an aerial. You don't need to necessarily hit every aerial in order to win the game. Smash is a game of positioning and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. You may be getting to impatient when trying to hit an opponent who air dodges away, instead try to predict your opponent's movements and air dodges; punish them after they dodge accordingly.

Do not put yourself down for being unable to land an aerial or dodge an attack, everyone starts from somewhere. I recommend watching replays of pro players and analyze what they do when it comes to positioning, aerials, etc. Good luck.

Is it necessary to learn how to perfect pivot to get better at the game? I play on 3DS, and while perfect pivoting was discovered on the 3DS version, I don't think it was really a big thing at the time.

Copypasting this from my FB group: Perfect pivots, like anything, take practice and have to be done with intention. Sorta like wavedashing in melee, they both give good positioning, but when used incorrectly or inputted wrong, can spell disaster.
I'm thinking about incorporating them, but to be honest they are not necessary to win the match. If you try use them, I suggest practicing it for defensive positioning, once you get confident enough and get the hang of it try using it aggressively.

That being said, one of my friends have been actively incorporating it to his games and says he feels that it improves his neutral game. PP works with practice and patience, but you do not need to learn how to do it to get better at the game.

 

[V_x_I_D]

Guys I have a question, I'm getting better but I have issues reading people.
How do I read people? That's my goal this week, I've stopped rolling so much, I've gotten better at punishing, but I have an issue with reading people.
Do I have to commentate the match in my head?
Do I have to actually SLOW DOWN and question my actions while still keeping the pace of the match going?
I feel like I'm better when I'm not watching MY character, but when I'm watching THEIR character, because I know my character in and out already.
I was playing matches with a fellow anon, and while I was approaching I started thinking "ok, he can either do this, this, or this, so be ready" and it seemed easy enough until the intensity got greater and I wasn't able to clearly cover my options because I was too busy going on "auto pilot" to protect myself.

Tl;dr: I need help reading people. How do you do it?

 

[Jaxas]

Guys I have a question, I'm getting better but I have issues reading people.
How do I read people? That's my goal this week, I've stopped rolling so much, I've gotten better at punishing, but I have an issue with reading people.
Do I have to commentate the match in my head?
Do I have to actually SLOW DOWN and question my actions while still keeping the pace of the match going?
I feel like I'm better when I'm not watching MY character, but when I'm watching THEIR character, because I know my character in and out already.
I was playing matches with a fellow anon, and while I was approaching I started thinking "ok, he can either do this, this, or this, so be ready" and it seemed easy enough until the intensity got greater and I wasn't able to clearly cover my options because I was too busy going on "auto pilot" to protect myself.

Tl;dr: I need help reading people. How do you do it?

I think you have the right idea, honestly. For now you'll have to 'slow down' and focus on their options, but eventually it'll become second nature (part of 'autopilot', as you called it).

For now definitely watch the opponent, and try to figure out what they can do; also, when you're practicing something extremely specific (in this case reading) then go in to matches and keep in mind that your goals are in this order:

1. Get better at whatever you're practicing
2. Winning the match

It's practice, so if losing a match now to focus on learning gets you better in the long run faster, then that's what you should be doing. If you're in tournament of course the only priority is winning the match, but that's why you do this specifically in practice!


Anyways, best of luck, and keep at it!

 

[V_x_I_D]

I think you have the right idea, honestly. For now you'll have to 'slow down' and focus on their options, but eventually it'll become second nature (part of 'autopilot', as you called it).

For now definitely watch the opponent, and try to figure out what they can do; also, when you're practicing something extremely specific (in this case reading) then go in to matches and keep in mind that your goals are in this order:

1. Get better at whatever you're practicing
2. Winning the match

It's practice, so if losing a match now to focus on learning gets you better in the long run faster, then that's what you should be doing. If you're in tournament of course the only priority is winning the match, but that's why you do this specifically in practice!


Anyways, best of luck, and keep at it!

Thank you based Jaxas

 

[Mrawesome48]

Is there any way you could post a replay video of yourself? From what others have said above, it sounds like you're getting too frustrated with yourself over not being able to hit with an aerial. You don't need to necessarily hit every aerial in order to win the game. Smash is a game of positioning and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. You may be getting to impatient when trying to hit an opponent who air dodges away, instead try to predict your opponent's movements and air dodges; punish them after they dodge accordingly.

Do not put yourself down for being unable to land an aerial or dodge an attack, everyone starts from somewhere. I recommend watching replays of pro players and analyze what they do when it comes to positioning, aerials, etc. Good luck.

I'm frustrated because i cant land any attacks in the air while my opponents are playing the exact same characters, attacking with the exact same moves but there's are connecting. My main is Princess Peach and she is an aerial fighter. I didn't say i have to land every aerial but atm im not landing any not a single attack in the air is connecting. When im playing someone there is no such thing as a good game, outplaying the other person etc. Either im destroying someone or im getting destroyed myself. The part that upsets me is that these are basic fundamental things that everyone else seems to be able do.

 

[CrazyPerson]

3. The universal techniques have to come first. Do you know how to DI, fast fall, Short hop, tech chase, wall/floor tech, pivot grab, angle your shield? If so, now go to your character's section and look up their mindgames, combos, AT's, and how they play the neutral game, off-stage, and ledgeplay.

What would you recommend I learn first?