Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Ultimastrike]

To be honest, I think I might've found a solution after multiple thoughts of how I should improve.

I need to find someone who would teach me about Smash in general, not characters. If I can understand the mechanics more and learn how to read and predict, then I might see myself getting better.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah I want to focus "bloggish"/personal advice to this thread, or at least a central thread for them. Not only does it give people a reference to look for similar questions being answered (search for it or just read through it), centralises a place for smart/helpful people to answer (subbed threads and stuff) it also keeps the board itself uncluttered for other discussions.

I'll be merging new threads into here as they come, but people are fine to highlight a question they had go "missing" in one if it didn't get caught.
If traffic/activity for such stuff is too high for everyone to have a good conversation or give helpful advice at all, then we'll try split it up further with another system.

 

[dragontamer]

@ Shaya
Can I request this thread to be renamed "Tips on Self-improvement Thread" ??

"Gameplay and Strategy" is awfully generic, and I don't think it actually portrays the intent of this thread.

 

[Funkermonster]

How exactly do I input a pivot grab (on the Wii U Gamepad, only because I have no better controller atm)? Whenever I try one, it only sometimes comes out. Most of the time I get a tilt to come out instead, even though I am clearly pressing the grab button. What gives?

 

[Conda]

Watching videos of other people playing - both top-level players as well as mid-level players - helps me improve a bunch, and also lets me take my own losses less seriously. It's just For Glory, no worries.

I wrote this guide that tells people the value of learning by spectating:
http://smashboards.com/guides/improving-at-super-smash-bros-friendly-advice-from-a-commentator.102/

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

My biggest long term problem is that there are no at least somewhat serious smash players in my city or it's impossible to find them.
I watch a lot of videos and train my techs in training mode. I get better every day I think, but not having someone on my level to play against (I'm not even good) really sucks.
Online FG isn't an option because most people I get matched with aren't even on the same continent and lag ruins any movement improvements I could get through playing online.
So what I am asking is, what can I do to actually improve besides the things I stated? Are Amiibos good training partners? Do they even compare to humans?

 

[Trunks159]

I share your pain. There's a limit to how good you can get on your own. I play with others but frankly they suck...how about we play each other? Perhaps Smashboards is the answer.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I share your pain. There's a limit to how good you can get on your own. I play with others but frankly they suck...how about we play each other? Perhaps Smashboards is the answer.

Pennsylvania to Germany? Lag idea.
But you're right, Smashboards could be a possibility. Gonna ask around for some German players here.
My chances to meet someone irl are still near 0 though. East Germany ftw.

 

[Trunks159]

Pennsylvania to Germany? Lag idea.
But you're right, Smashboards could be a possibility. Gonna ask around for some German players here.
My chances to meet someone irl are still near 0 though. East Germany ftw.

Yea, lag is inevitable, though I guess you can work around it.

 

[Dinotard]

Sorry if this has been answered already but I've been playing this game over a month, I have a decent grasp on the mechanics. But how exactly do I break out of a grab?
I always button mash and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, so I don't think that is what I'm supposed to be doing to get out of it.

 

[Trunks159]

Button Mashing is the way to do it. At higher percentages it takes more button imputs to mash out.

 

[capfalcon159]

I can beat a lvl 9 CPU, but I haven't played very many good people. Should I start playing competitively or just keep practicing more? I play online for glory mode a lot, but my win percentage is only 7 percent. I probably need more practice, so any suggestions?

 

[FiddleBum]

practice practice practice get that win rate up

 

[MarioFireRed]

Level 9 CPUs play too systematically to actually resemble human play.

For starters they read your button inputs (in order words legitimately cheating) in order to perfect shield your attacks and don't really go into the effort of actually approaching you. Instead they only respond to what you do first and react accordingly (which can lead to some funny yet unrealistic results like, say, a Palutena spamming Auto Reticle at you while you stand still).

From your winning % at For Glory was it from only using Falcon or did you experiment with a lot of different characters as well? Also how many games have you played in it (lower # of matches played aren't very indicative of a player's skill regardless of win %).

As for practice I suggest playing against Level 8 CPUs instead for solo play as they play roughly the same as Level 9s except they don't read your inputs, don't go full-on aggressive all the time, and still put up somewhat of a decent fight. However the best way to improve is always keep playing with other human players, whether online or (much more preferably to avoid input lag as much as possible) offline. Save some replays while you're at it so you can analyze how you won/lost certain matches and improve yourself that way as well.

tl;dr Keep playing with other people and take note of how you play vs how they react.

 

[dragontamer]

Level 9 computers make you worse in actual competition.

If anything, you should stop playing computers if you want to get better. They gimp your ability to learn. Stop playing against computers, and you'll get better.

 

[capfalcon159]

Level 9 CPUs play too systematically to actually resemble human play.

For starters they read your button inputs (in order words legitimately cheating) in order to perfect shield your attacks and don't really go into the effort of actually approaching you. Instead they only respond to what you do first and react accordingly (which can lead to some funny yet unrealistic results like, say, a Palutena spamming Auto Reticle at you while you stand still).

From your winning % at For Glory was it from only using Falcon or did you experiment with a lot of different characters as well? Also how many games have you played in it (lower # of matches played aren't very indicative of a player's skill regardless of win %).

As for practice I suggest playing against Level 8 CPUs instead for solo play as they play roughly the same as Level 9s except they don't read your inputs, don't go full-on aggressive all the time, and still put up somewhat of a decent fight. However the best way to improve is always keep playing with other human players, whether online or (much more preferably to avoid input lag as much as possible) offline. Save some replays while you're at it so you can analyze how you won/lost certain matches and improve yourself that way as well.

tl;dr Keep playing with other people and take note of how you play vs how they react.

Thanks so much! I'll definitely work on that!

And yes, I was only using falcon and I probably have played about 30 matches, I have to start playing more online.

 

[MarioFireRed]

No problem mate. Good luck and may the smash gods be with you (corny inspirational quote ftw).

 

[capfalcon159]

Level 9 computers make you worse in actual competition.

If anything, you should stop playing computers if you want to get better. They gimp your ability to learn. Stop playing against computers, and you'll get better.

Ive heard many things saying that, but I just don't have any friends that are good at smash, and online lag can just be dreadful. I think that starting competitive play early might be good practice because I am playing more real people. I will still try to play less cpu's. Thanks for the help!

 

[dragontamer]

I would suggest training mode to practice tech.

For example, if you haven't mastered it yet, practicing juggling off stage as the training dummy tries to recover is great. Now opponents in a real match will recover high or low, in strange ways... and the only way to really learn to do "back-stage spikes" consistently is to play against humans (in particular, humans who like to recover low a lot).

Computers don't vary their recoveries. They instead rely 100% on their superior reaction speeds to punish you in ways no human ever will.

--------------

There's also the option to remain a casual, which is what most people do honestly. It means being a master at the single-player game. Beating Master Core while taking no damage, collecting all of the equipment, completing the challenges. That sort of thing.

Believe it or not, very few "competitive" players can do things like defeat Master Core on insane mode. Competitive play vs Humans is more about reading opponents, and it is a completely different skillset from what most "casual" players build up.

Basically, go into the competitive arena if you wish to become a competitive player. If you're happy remaining a single-player game, just play the game for what it is.

I personally played Brawl as a casual, and proud of it. Subspace emissary was extremely fun for me, and I enjoyed doing runs over and over again. This time around, I'm feeling a bit more serious... so I'm personally going into Smash4 with a bit more of a competitive mindset.

 

[BluHawk007]

If your win rate gets low in online play don't get discouraged: input lag is super annoying and because of that For Glory does not really represent your skill as a player imo. (plus the stage list in For Glory is sorta dumb)

 

[OllyD]

So I've been playing Smash for a long time now but Smash 4 is just different.

Generally if I play a friend in Melee or PM I can 4 stock them. However, if I play the same friend in Smash 4 it always seems close, if not in their favour.

A lot of the time the matches to me seem to follow the same pattern *constant dodging, grabbing, and really oddly placed smashes

It just seems like my attacks never connect but theirs always do and even if mine seems to connect it doesn't actually get pulled off at all and they end up with the better end of the trade off.

I'm really hoping for some tips to boost my game. My main is Palutena and I feel pretty confident with her and am open to also using other characters.

 

[Problem2]

Try to find some players in your area to practice with. Check the regional boards as well as search around Facebook for your nearest city. There are now lots of Facebook groups for regional smash communities that are very active.

If that doesn't work, you can supplement some player practice with a little bit of For Glory, but make it a goal to practice against people with good connections as much as possible. If the lag in a match makes you feel uncomfortable, just leave after the match (Self Destruct twice if you have to). You're win rate is only visible to you and is not entirely reflective of your ability as a smasher.

Most of all, don't beat yourself up if you are not where you want to be skill wise. It used to be a Smashboards mantra to new players back when I first joined, "You're not good, even if you think you are, but you can get good."

 

[Raijinken]

For starters, some of the big changes:

• There's a lot of landing lag if you land while airdodging. This means that a lot of players' preferred method of landing will now get you killed.
• No more edgehogging. Recoveries are pretty good, but since that's double edged, you may need to chase offstage. Palutena's not particularly great at this, alas.

Aside from that, Palutena has a pretty easily-executed combo. If you use her downthrow, you can almost always (depending on the enemy's DI and your reaction to it) get either a forward air or up air from it. Once they hit 80-90 (using shieldgrabs can get you a lot of free hits in if your friends are predictable enough), use the up air, as it can kill.

It's hard to tell you more without really seeing how you play, but those are some starter tips that might help.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

The game is still 'user-friendly' so for the most part you'll only die at low % due to a sweetspotted smash with no DI (since its nearly impossible to gimp due to no edgehogging). You dont even have to try really to keep up with people. Sheild-grabbing is probably the most used technique after rolling. Theres no big seperation between skilled players and somewhat good players, but then again the game hasn't been out long enough for that seperation to be established. Plus the game is well balanced. A light-weight character can get like 10 hits in and a heavy character can do the same damage, and possibly even kill u, with one attack.

U need advice? Learn to punish all the rolls that im sure your friend does and learn your character matchups

Here, this helps http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWXCTKKDV0 and if the link doesnt work then youtube 'smash theory: the neutral'

 

[RIP_Lucas]

My only suggestion is to watch some good matches. Not necessarily pro, but good players that know what they're doing. If you watch what they do, and more importantly what they don't do, you'll get a basic understanding of what's good and what's nut.

The biggest thing however is like other people have said, don't be afraid to lose. Losing is good because it means someone else just gave you an opportunity to get better, so make sure you take it. Any time you lose but don't know what you did wrong, save the replay and watch it looking for punished you missed or things they did that you could have avoided. Then try to not make those mistakes again (you will, but less and less until almost never)

Oh yeah, and don't play against anyone that can make you wise. This includes computers, roll spammers, and super laggy opponents. To beat those guys, you have to play completely differently than you normally would, and if you're still learning, it's not worth it.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Palutena has very situational specials and smashes, but her tilts and aerials are pretty quick and effective. She won't be an easy character to win with, but if you're committed to her you should focus on your mechanics. Practice your technique, learn to short hop her aerials and fast fall them when you need to. She's essentially an edgeguard character, so your goal will be to just get them off the edge and keep using either her up smash, forward smash, reflect, or auto-reticle to make it difficult for them. When you see their recovery can't get them back just stop attacking and let them fall. If you're going for the usual top/side KOs you're going to have a hard time. Palutena struggles to finish off stocks like that. All of the best Palutena mains I've played have stuck with tilts for damage, down smash for spacing, and throws off the edge to start the guard.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Gotta practice against humans, mang. You don't even have to be competitively good to beat a Lv9 CPU, they all play too predictably and systematically to be an actual threat.

Now, a fully-trained amiibo, on the other hand, is possible to be good training buddy, although that natural buff to their damage output is somewhat unfair.

 

[Inger]

Everyone else has the right idea. Computer opponents make you good against computers, not humans. The only scenario I find myself vs computers is to learn a new character's moveset.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

playing competitively =/= playing ranked

if you want to get better, do what's best for improving for you

Whether that is practicing against a CPU with no lag so that you can improve your control of your character, or playing online against a human player.

Don't worry about your win %

You're trying to improve, so you're already playing competitively

If you don't know if you're better off playing against the CPU or against a human player, pick the one that's more fun.

 

[capfalcon159]

I would suggest training mode to practice tech.

For example, if you haven't mastered it yet, practicing juggling off stage as the training dummy tries to recover is great. Now opponents in a real match will recover high or low, in strange ways... and the only way to really learn to do "back-stage spikes" consistently is to play against humans (in particular, humans who like to recover low a lot).

Computers don't vary their recoveries. They instead rely 100% on their superior reaction speeds to punish you in ways no human ever will.

--------------

There's also the option to remain a casual, which is what most people do honestly. It means being a master at the single-player game. Beating Master Core while taking no damage, collecting all of the equipment, completing the challenges. That sort of thing.

Believe it or not, very few "competitive" players can do things like defeat Master Core on insane mode. Competitive play vs Humans is more about reading opponents, and it is a completely different skillset from what most "casual" players build up.

Basically, go into the competitive arena if you wish to become a competitive player. If you're happy remaining a single-player game, just play the game for what it is.

I personally played Brawl as a casual, and proud of it. Subspace emissary was extremely fun for me, and I enjoyed doing runs over and over again. This time around, I'm feeling a bit more serious... so I'm personally going into Smash4 with a bit more of a competitive mindset.

Thanks, I have not really worked on techniques very much. Also, about just staying a casual player, Im not really a fan of the play modes smash 4 has to offer, if I was going to just play casually I think I would just try to find people to play with, bit that's still a bit tough because I live in Charlotte nc. At my school I think there is a smash club, but I am to young to join. I will definitely look into that when I can. Thanks for all the help!

 

[capfalcon159]

Gotta practice against humans, mang. You don't even have to be competitively good to beat a Lv9 CPU, they all play too predictably and systematically to be an actual threat.

Now, a fully-trained amiibo, on the other hand, is possible to be good training buddy, although that natural buff to their damage output is somewhat unfair.

Huh, that's a great idea! I do have a few GameStop gift cards, so I might get an amiibo.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

A Fox amiibo actually placed well in a tournament a while back. But as long as the players the amiibo fights have good strats they'll learn from that and also be good.

Or you can be like that one guy that bought a Pikachu amiibo and just taught it to spam Thunder and it somehow became a monster. It was an article on Kotaku, or maybe Gamnesia or something.

 

[Pazx]

Honestly I entered my first Melee tournament before I could beat level 9 CPUs. Find your local scene, get involved, play with others who like the game.

 

[capfalcon159]

A Fox amiibo actually placed well in a tournament a while back. But as long as the players the amiibo fights have good strats they'll learn from that and also be good.

Or you can be like that one guy that bought a Pikachu amiibo and just taught it to spam Thunder and it somehow became a monster. It was an article on Kotaku, or maybe Gamnesia or something.

Lol, I will probably try the first option

 

[capfalcon159]

Honestly I entered my first Melee tournament before I could beat level 9 CPUs. Find your local scene, get involved, play with others who like the game.

How old were you when you entered, I'm also not sure if I'm to young, I'm only 13

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Wizzrobe is 16 and he's a top level pro. You're never too young. If you're good, you're good. Simple as that.

 

[dragontamer]

How old were you when you entered, I'm also not sure if I'm to young, I'm only 13

At that age, unless you can get parental support to drive you around, or you're one of the lucky few who is walking distance from a scene... you're gonna have issues even reaching the scene.

Until then, I'd sit tight and be content with your school friends. When you are able to drive, you will gain an opportunity to face stronger opponents.

 

[capfalcon159]

At that age, unless you can get parental support to drive you around, or you're one of the lucky few who is walking distance from a scene... you're gonna have issues even reaching the scene.

Until then, I'd sit tight and be content with your school friends. When you are able to drive, you will gain an opportunity to face stronger opponents.

My parents are fine with driving me around, but would it just be weird for me, being 13, next to a bunch of 18-25 year olds playing smash, and also probably getting crushed along the way lol. Also, not many of my friends play smash, and the ones that do don't play very much. I don't even think they know that competitive smash exists.

 

[Funkermonster]

Couldn't find a better place to ask this, but here goes: I got a bad habit of playing multiple characters, a total of 15 currently, and I think its starting to affect my learning process and slow me down. While I don't actually main all 15 and I wouldn't use them all in a tournament, I think even my pocket characters are hindering my growth since trying to semi-learn them takes away time I could spend training with my true mains, and I still haven't found the top 5 I enjoy the most. As a thorn in the side, I haven't yet played with everyone and there are about 3 more characters I'm starting to like too which is probably gonna make it worse. A couple of the characters I'm playing are also seen by some as technical and hard to use, so that might be a bit of an issue too.

I still wanna get at least semi-good in the future, but I think learning around 15 fighters is seriously hurting my progress right now, since I tend to get bored using the same guy multiple times and can't help playing another. Has anyone dealt with this kind of thing before? How do you overcome it?

Can anyone still help me with this? I asked earlier but I don't think I got the answers I needed (I appreciate those who tried to help me anyway though) .

 

[mimgrim]

On the age thing. IIRC M2K was around 12 or 13 when he first got into competitive Smash and is now considered one of the best players in the world. There's also a play in my region known as MegaFox who I believe is around the age of 15 and is one of our best Brawl/Smash 4 players. There's also a Project M player in Dallas called Lunchables who is considered one of the best players in his region. Starting at a younger age is generally better, I think, as it allows you to learn more at a faster rate. Most of the people you'll meet for competitive Smash IRL will be mostly nice and willing to help you get better and not care about your age.

....

Also. I get the chance to play Smash 4 U today for the first time, thankfully will be getting the game tomorrow. But I was having a hard time finding a character(s) I liked playing, I also don't like playing characters I main/sub in other games (64 is Fox, Melee is Sheik, Brawl is Olimar main Marth sub, and Project M is Toon Link main Mario sub) so they're out of the equation. I seem to have a tendency to favor character with, at the very least, decent mobility, a projectile or disjoint of some kind, or both even, and I seem to have a preference for shorter characters but it isn; a huge deal on this last thing. However most characters I try there is something I dislike that makes me go ehhhhhhhh, maybe not. Like Robin fits the bill for disjoint and projectiles but sheesh that mobility. Or Palutena, which is a character who I want to like and at first glance she seems to fit the bill decently well but there is something making me go eh maybe not. Or Villager, who is another character I want to like as I love his Specials and Fair/Bair but I find his other moves awkward as hell to use. Diddy and Pikachu also seem as if they fit the bill but something about them also makes go eh maybe not. I just seem to be having one hell of a time finding, at least, a few character I want to play around with on the quest to find a main and sub.