G3S Mafia | Day 4 starts | Deadline: 1st Feb [11:59pm CET]

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gorf lynch tells us about cop results, removes an inactive, and removes a semi scummy player off play.

Feels better than lynching between Axel and Ryker.

 

[Inferno3044]

Disagree with Gorf lynch, I honestly think he's Town based on what I've read from his posts.

Inferno, that's phishing. Is that question really in dire need of answering for Town's sake?

Well here are the main events that have led up to this situation:

-Axel claims that he is 95% sure Gorf is scum due to his night action (he includes some sort of investigation with clues that is open to interpretation)
-Ryker claims masonry with Gorf
-Brosuke calls the gambit and claims neighborhood
-Ryker claims cop with an innocent on Gorf

What's going on in my mind is that there are 2 investigative roles claimed and that sounds odd to me in a setup of this size. It seems very likely that between Ryker and Axel there is one scum slot and a Gorf flip would help answer that (Axelscum on townflip, Rykerscum on scumflip). However Axel stated his role so vaguely that he can easily change it to how it seems fit. He basically said "there's a strong chance Gorf is scum, but if he's not don't blame me." It shows a strong stance from him without the commitment. Ryker on the other hand is committed to his stance by claiming innocent on Gorf. If Gorf flips scum, he is ****ed regardless of alignment.

 

[BarDulL]

What does this even mean?

Why are you voting me? Why is Brosuke's CC town?

Statement one implicates that caution isn't beyond the realm of "reasonability," my friend. It should be pretty obvious why I'm voting for you: I told you to drop the act, and you didn't drop it. You're also trying to pin Brosuke as scum when, well, gee, not only did he call you out on his masonry, he's in a claimed mason! It doesn't get more objective and conclusive than that, or am I wrong? I'm not really seeing the Town intent in your actions either; see Axel's reasoning as well as Brosuke's. Axel's claim was too vague and could have easily been a gambit, so what did you hope to achieve by potentially dissolving his gambit? You just look like you're really trying to go out of your way for Gorf who you didn't even have a read on because, well, you haven't read yet. Huh. Interesting. You claimed masonry, then switched to day cop, neither of which are believable by any means.

I mean, put yourself in my shoes for a second. How the hell am I supposed to interpret your actions other than:

1. Attempting to look Town by calling out Axel on a vague claim that may have been a gambit/real claim.
2. You get caught in a lie, then you try to change your claim so that you aren't being contradicted...but wait, why would you claim to have been in a masonry instead of just outright claiming day cop in the first place? It's pretty obvious that you're lying, and it looks mega scummy.
3. You're trying to fight your way out by attempting to pin Brosuke as scum when, what the hell, Brosuke called YOU out on not being in a masonry, and he was right! He's practically soft cleared at this point. INB4 F&L part 2.
4. You still haven't explained your entire thought process and told the whole truth. Until then, the vote isn't going off.

 

[BarDulL]

Gorf lynch tells us about cop results, removes an inactive, and removes a semi scummy player off play.

Feels better than lynching between Axel and Ryker.

Hmm...I guess so.

@Infinity, that's a good point, hadn't thought about it that way, interestingly enough. Guess it's because I feel good about Axel for some reason.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Read, Bardull.

He's a claimed neighbor. Alignment unconfirmed. Hell, his role isn't even confirmed. Your treating him as cleared when he is far from that.

I did stick my neck out for a player I have no read on. That's because I have a ****ing cop clear on him. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And yes I have explained the entire ****ing thought process. You just don't read.

 

[BarDulL]

Yeah, I'm going to have to mimic your question, Infinity.

@Axel, can you go more in depth with "the clues" you've been getting? I agree that your claim is too vague and gives you leeway to escape upon a Gorf Town flip, so I'd prefer a level of investment from you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm just a cop and it was randomized which is why I have a read on Gorf of all people. Can't keep from being outed. Can't keep from being role blocked.

Here you are, blind man.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

How many votes are on me?

Xonar, Axel, Felipe, and Bardull.

L-2 or L-1 if I missed one (I think Soup unvoted).

Do NOT let Xonar push a lynch through on me without letting further discussion take place. If I go down, I want him to BURN for it.

 

[BarDulL]

Oh, missed your reasoning. Random huh? That's pretty damn convenient that Axel's presumed clue is on Gorf. >___________>

Not sure how I feel about your claim anymore. :-X.

Don't worry, you're not going to die...yet. I'm going to collect my thoughts first before putting my vote anywhere again. Your reasoning is believable, but it just means you were really unlucky. Eh.

Unvote

 

[BarDulL]

I honestly feel like I'm being suckered right now. A random cop investigation role that investigated the same player that Axel is presumably connected with just seems so unlikely. >____>

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Or a role that Axel can't even talk about that leads him to have a "strong reason" to think Gorf is scum.

 

[BarDulL]

Point taken.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Voted |

Voter(s)​

|

Votes to lynch​

Ryker |

Brosuke, Axel, felipe_9595​

|

3 / 6​

Axel |

Ryker, Omni​

|

2 / 6​

Gorf |

Sworddancer.​

|

1 / 6​

---​

Not voting: Inferno, Gorf, Red Ryu, Soupamario, Bardull;

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Doing this post by post, so excuse me being redundant

You'll get none at all. You're straight up entrenched at the moment and I don't look good.

Point taken.

No. As scum you would want to make sure I wasn't telling the truth because you wouldn't have the info. As town, you would counter claim immediately.

Alright, all this WIFOM aside, let me pull forth an argument (that held me up tonight, love that feel) that on one hand shows why my claim is not based on alignment and why this argument is also null.
The scum gets to communicate with each other too. So regardless of Neighbor/Scum, I would know whether a communication duo gets a quick topic or not. Thus, the timing is not based on alignment. A scum would have as much information as town w.r.t. a quicktopic.

The information you got linked the two players. The second player is one who Axel has claimed his guilty on.

Yes, but guess what, your gambit says nothing about Gorfs alignment.

Do you believe Axel is telling the truth about that guilty? I really like how you continue dodging around that.

It's not a guilty. The fact that you're treating him as cop makes me further doubt your claim.
It's a 95% chance. I think it's likely based on the fact that I've found Gorf scummy throughout the game.

Are you kidding me? I don't need lots of explanations. I need enough to point out the lack of town intent.

Give me a bullet point list, give quotes, give responses and why they don't work. Sum those up too.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ask Omni if it's feasible. Ask pretty much anyone with an IQ above 10 that isn't Xonar and Axel.

*****, you even fished for my scum partner.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

neighbor partner* wow I was not thinking well there.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

God I need to explain this.

You keep saying I'm scum, and by that line of thought, you were basically fishing for my "scum" partner, who is in actuality a neighbor.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Gorf scum = Ryker scum, but Ryker scum doesn't necessarily = Gorf scum. At least from the general perspective.

Agreed here.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It was merely a hunch, nothing regarding my role or power.

I can buy this.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Serious question, if people believe the guilty on Gorf from Axel as him being the legit cop, wouldn't we lynch Gorf over Ryker?

Lynching Gorf in this situation sounds way more beneficial in the long run.

Here's the problem. Ryker is scum. Ryker also claimed to be cop. Now, if we keep him alive, he will start tomorrow with a "guilty" on me/Axel, and possibly kill the other of us two off.

Me and Axel pretty much need each other at this point for support, especially with Ryker in here and his persuading skills.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What's going on in my mind is that there are 2 investigative roles claimed and that sounds odd to me in a setup of this size. It seems very likely that between Ryker and Axel there is one scum slot

Agreed here. Never really thought about it that way. Legit.

Axel stated his role so vaguely that he can easily change it to how it seems fit. He basically said "there's a strong chance Gorf is scum, but if he's not don't blame me." It shows a strong stance from him without the commitment. Ryker on the other hand is committed to his stance by claiming innocent on Gorf. If Gorf flips scum, he is ****ed regardless of alignment.

Ryker being committed? Dude, have you seen what he did? He claimed Mason, then Daycop then Nightcop. HE WAS IN NO WAY COMMITTED TO ANYTHING BUT GORF BEING TOWN.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Read, Bardull.

He's a claimed neighbor. Alignment unconfirmed. Hell, his role isn't even confirmed. Your treating him as cleared when he is far from that.

Would like to repeat this. Don't be a Ryker and clear people on no basis, especially when I explicitly stated that alignment is unconfirmed to both parties.

Though riding a clear would make this all a lot easier.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Do NOT let Xonar push a lynch through on me without letting further discussion take place. If I go down, I want him to BURN for it.

Fluffing it up I see. Nice to see that you're at least admitting to having nothing else.

Ah right, anti case coming up obviously. FL style? Gotta love ya, usotsuki.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Anti-case? I intend on having a guilty on you.

Unless you're Godfather.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh, missed your reasoning. Random huh? That's pretty damn convenient that Axel's presumed clue is on Gorf. >___________>

Hard call-out. Two investigatives? Both targeting the same target? One getting a guilty, the other a clear?

Looking at purely scumhunting, it is, for everyone, clear that we're taking Axel's side.

People have found Gorf scummy. You have lied on multiple occasions, and your reasoning is weak.

So who to believe, the guy who confirms my read or the one who disproves it BUT HAS ALSO LIED AND BEEN A LIABILITY ALL THE WAY THROUGH? Even if we leave you alive, regardless of alignment, you'll just be that guy who never read, you'll try to kill off me and Axel and rule this game as mr Convincing without even having read the first 20 pages.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Anti-case? I intend on having a guilty on you.

Unless you're Godfather.

Nagga ya be dead eatin nooses by then

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Or a role that Axel can't even talk about that leads him to have a "strong reason" to think Gorf is scum.

Fair point. Even without his role I found Gorf scummy and lynchable regardless.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

*****, you even fished for my scum partner.

*waits *

Spoiler

hint: it's impossible to fish for a scum partner

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Fair point. Even without his role I found Gorf scummy and lynchable regardless.

What would you do if Gorf gets lynched today and flips town? You have no further claims on night actions (from myself or Axel) and Felipe gets killed tonight. What are you thinking at that point?

You keep drumming home that I lied and conveniently ignoring WHY I lied. Your entire case on me blows up should Gorf flip town. So why are you trying to hammer through my lynch?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Gorf is not getting lynched today.

You can still be scum while Gorf is town.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14066869&postcount=900000000000000000000

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Again ignoring me.

You completely ignored my hypothetical question and AGAIN started trying to push through me. That **** is NOT going to fly.

Also again (I'm getting tired of repeating myself), why am I scum if Gorf is town? The staple your wagon together is that I'm scum trying to protect Gorf. Why then, would you not lynch Gorf first?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You keep drumming home that I lied and conveniently ignoring WHY I lied. Your entire case on me blows up should Gorf flip town. So why are you trying to hammer through my lynch?

Why you lied is as WIFOM as it gets and still shows holes. Like Bardull said multiple times and so did I, why claim Mason and not just Daycop immediately?

Here's the problem. Ryker is scum. Ryker also claimed to be cop. Now, if we keep him alive, he will start tomorrow with a "guilty" on me/Axel, and possibly kill the other of us two off.

This point is still true. Speculation incoming, but still;
Even if you're town and not cop you will conjure up a guilty to get one of us lynched.
If you're town and cop and get an innocent, you will conjure a guilty on the other and get that person lynched.


I know you, Ryker. You play to survive, at the extent of others. You're detrimental. Killing you is the best way for me to survive, and/or to keep Axel alive. And that's assuming you're town.
Which I don't. You're scum. And if you're scum, you're going to be a pain in the ass for the entire town. Especially me/Axel, if you survive today by some miracle and get that fake guilty on me/Axel. Not letting you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Again ignoring me.

You completely ignored my hypothetical question and AGAIN started trying to push through me. That **** is NOT going to fly.

Patience, young padawan.

Also again (I'm getting tired of repeating myself), why am I scum if Gorf is town? The staple your wagon together is that I'm scum trying to protect Gorf. Why then, would you not lynch Gorf first?

Situation:
Gorf is Town.
You are Scum.

You give Gorf a helping hand, Gorf will accept without hesitation. Now why would a scum help someone who is town like that? Gorf concludes you're town.
Now Ryker and Gorf are a front. And you know how strong you two both are with convincing other players. Not to mention, there's probably a scum-partner for you out there, Ryker. If Gorf is town, this would've been one of the best moves possible to make as scum, simple as that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Why you lied is as WIFOM as it gets and still shows holes. Like Bardull said multiple times and so did I, why claim Mason and not just Daycop immediately?

As has already been addressed, because it paints a HUGE ****ING TARGET ON MY BACK!

Someone might start thinking that you're the one who hasn't read the thread.

If my mason play had gone off without a hitch then I could sit there and remain the person who hasn't read the game and doesn't have a role. I had seen Axel's claim and would've been free to investigate him without having to worry about any sort of night interference.

 

[Omni]

fully read and caught up

this is dumb

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Obviously, on the other hand, if Gorf is your partner, this would've left him as being town. Effectively leaving him out of focus.

Thus, your action has no influence on his alignment.

As has already been addressed, because it paints a HUGE ****ING TARGET ON MY BACK!

And confirmed town mason does not paint that on Gorf? Or yourself for that matter? Alignment confirms are exclusively two sided. Maybe less of a target, but I guess it wasn't worth the lie, was it?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Omni you better make a good post. I would really love to know where your head is at right now.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ryker if you read the entire game and give me read lists with references and stuff I'll get a better read on you. Play this game properly. If you really want to survive and on the off-chance that you're town who just did the dumbest ****ing thing ever, you're going to have to show me that you're town.

Alternatively I could give you the noob card.