G3S Mafia | Day 4 starts | Deadline: 1st Feb [11:59pm CET]

[#HBC | Ryker]

You give Gorf a helping hand, Gorf will accept without hesitation. Now why would a scum help someone who is town like that? Gorf concludes you're town.
Now Ryker and Gorf are a front. And you know how strong you two both are with convincing other players. Not to mention, there's probably a scum-partner for you out there, Ryker. If Gorf is town, this would've been one of the best moves possible to make as scum, simple as that.

Possible, yes. Still unlikely.

What happens when Gorf calls my bluff?

I have to preserve that "masonry" through the game until LyLo. Whereupon Gorf claims that we weren't actually masons and I have to somehow get him lynched anyway. The long and short of it is that it would lead to short term success with no long term gain.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Examine the other possibility today.

You lynch Gorf. He flips scum. You lynch me.


You lynch Gorf. He flips town. My actions are given more weight and Axel becomes a hot topic. I turn up an investigation on one of you.







What you're saying is that you aren't certain of my alignment (you can't be). You have two investigative claims IN DIRECT CONFLICT. You would rather not lynch the one you have a claimed guilty on, have read as scum, and matches the investigation result of the claimed player you trust more.

Bull****.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And confirmed town mason does not paint that on Gorf? Or yourself for that matter? Alignment confirms are exclusively two sided. Maybe less of a target, but I guess it wasn't worth the lie, was it?

Do I care about a target on Gorf's back? It's infinitely better than wasting a lynch on a townie which seems like what we're ****ing destined to do at this point. Let him die in the night, that's fine. He'd die after Felipe anyway and I fully intended to have a guilty on Axel at that point which would have been well worth it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker if you read the entire game and give me read lists with references and stuff I'll get a better read on you. Play this game properly. If you really want to survive and on the off-chance that you're town who just did the dumbest ****ing thing ever, you're going to have to show me that you're town.

Alternatively I could give you the noob card.

..........

YOUR ENTIRE READ IS BASED OFF OF MECHANICS AND MY RECENT PLAY! IF YOU'RE SET ON LYNCHING ME OVER GORF WHO YOU THOUGHT WAS SCUM AND HAVE A CLAIMED GUILTY FROM A TOWN READ ON THEN NO READ LIST I COULD POSSIBLY POST COULD SWAY YOUR OPINION!

You're fishing for a backdoor out of this ****ing situation. **** you. No. The show just got cast and the leading actors are you, Axel, Gorf, and me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Possible, yes. Still unlikely.

What happens when Gorf calls my bluff?

I have to preserve that "masonry" through the game until LyLo. Whereupon Gorf claims that we weren't actually masons and I have to somehow get him lynched anyway. The long and short of it is that it would lead to short term success with no long term gain.

Gorf won't call your bluff any time soon. And you KNOW you can pull that off, don't fuck with me. You've survived through worse than that.
...I want to go into this more but I don't want to go into my role. I'll just say that this is a bull**** point. You can kill him off and survive. Besides, you know Gorf, there's a damn good chance that he'll keep it up for a loooong time. And after that, people won't even lynch you for it. You're Ryker, you can bullshit yourself out of almost any situation. Hell, you're even slipping right now.

Examine the other possibility today.

You lynch Gorf. He flips scum. You lynch me.


You lynch Gorf. He flips town. My actions are given more weight and Axel becomes a hot topic. I turn up an investigation on one of you.

The problem is that your investigation holds no value, because you could as well be a scum trying to survive.

Get this; Ryker's alignment has nothing to do with Gorf's alignment. The only way to concretely link the two is if Gorf flips scum.​

Gorf town? Ryker can be anything.
Gorf scum? Ryker is scum saving a scummate.

Ryker town? Gorf town.
Ryker scum? Gorf can be anything.

Looking at these odds, I know it is better to lynch Gorf. The problem is, that you, Ryker, are an unbelievable survivalist who will sacrifice multiple towns-folks to survive.

As town vanilla: conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As town cop: get guilty, push it, survive as Rykertown (unlikely, I am town, I feel Axel is town too)
As town cop: get innocent, conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As scum: conjure guilty, survive as Rykerscum, win game.

I don't trust you regardless of your town/scum-being with the position you're in now.

What you're saying is that you aren't certain of my alignment (you can't be). You have two investigative claims IN DIRECT CONFLICT. You would rather not lynch the one you have a claimed guilty on, have read as scum, and matches the investigation result of the claimed player you trust more.

Bull****.

Explanation above. I simply don't trust you, and

you've given me nor anyone in the game any reason to keep trusting you. For all we know, you will henceforth lie about every result just to survive.​

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Do I care about a target on Gorf's back? It's infinitely better than wasting a lynch on a townie which seems like what we're ****ing destined to do at this point. Let him die in the night, that's fine. He'd die after Felipe anyway and I fully intended to have a guilty on Axel at that point which would have been well worth it.

You don't know Gorf's role. For all I know, it's better than your 'cop' claim.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

..........

YOUR ENTIRE READ IS BASED OFF OF MECHANICS AND MY RECENT PLAY! IF YOU'RE SET ON LYNCHING ME OVER GORF WHO YOU THOUGHT WAS SCUM AND HAVE A CLAIMED GUILTY FROM A TOWN READ ON THEN NO READ LIST I COULD POSSIBLY POST COULD SWAY YOUR OPINION!

You're fishing for a backdoor out of this ****ing situation. **** you. No. The show just got cast and the leading actors are you, Axel, Gorf, and me.

Ryker. You're bound to get lynched by me and Axel, because there's no way you're going to help us regardless of our or your alignment. There is no question; either of us are going to die. If you survive today, we are going to die. If we survive today, you are going to die. It's almost that easy, but I haven't thought it through too much, might be factors I'm forgetting here.

Thing is, I've been playing this game. Axel has been playing this game. There are many people currently with town reads on us because we've been town. Our play lines up.

On the other hand
Gorf has been found scummy by multiple people.
Ryker has been found lying on multiple occasions and his play has not been lining up.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Besides that, Gorf has been inactive the entire day. He might as well get modkilled by now for inactivity.

On top of that, you haven't been playing this game at all.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Your scum-read on me is based on my play not lining up. Read the entire game, and judge again.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Alright I really have to stop playing mafia now. I'll be back later tonight.

 

[Omni]

ok here's my analysis (btw, Axel is an *** for not answering my question since it wasnt answered during the reread)

- it doesn't make sense to vote Ryker. we have to investigative roles having a town and scum on Gorf. the most logical conclusion is to vote Gorf hands down. however, we have Axel here voting Ryker which completely goes against what he should know "without a doubt". it doesn't make a lick of sense to vote for Ryker if you are in Axel's position.

- brosuke, you're not really playing mafia IMO. it's more like Claim Wars where you're trying to meta a closed set-up with no confirmation on what roles could or would exist. your push has thrown regular scumhunting out the window to the point where players like me, Soupa, Inferno, and RR don't really have to do **** except comment on what we think the mechanics of the game were built. anyway, the same point applies to you as Axel: his existence is clearly a pivotal point for both Ryker and Axel so it doesnt make sense not to put the vote on Gorf

- this is really stupid without Gorf here. the amount of inactives and replacements makes actual scumhunting trails close to non-existent.

- soupa: why do you want to vote Ryker over Gorf?

- generally agree with what RR, Inferno, and Bardull have been saying.

i think Ryker is not the play toDay. outside of the gambit and claiming bull****, he seems very authentic.

if this was BK and i could have it my way i would:
1.) lynch Gorf
2.) hope someone kills Brosuke overnight
3.) find out Gorf is town and lynch Axel

the problem with all of this is that Axel as scum would not ****ing say Gorf is scum and risk being outed as i said earlier. the same applies to Ryker. as a scum role for both of them, these gambits provide lots of risk with very little reward. if i was scum i wouldn't gambit anything on the off chance of perhaps getting Gorf lynched earlier; he's not worth the slot in the least bit

i still dislike how Felipe has been riding the sidelines even after the doc claim. and with all the claims its getting to the point where they're becoming moot until they are somehow 100% confirmable.

- no deaths lastnight + felipe + soupa leads me to believe that this is a reasonable pick. if soupa is town he'd be a nice target. he didn't stand out much but he was very reasonable and logical D1.

- the entire Ryker/Gorf/Axel debacle has yet to be proven. lynching Gorf leaves us with the most questions answered.

- this mason **** doesn't mean anything. wouldnt be surprised if masons had differing alignments.

that sums up my thought process

Vote: Gorf

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker. You're bound to get lynched by me and Axel, because there's no way you're going to help us regardless of our or your alignment. There is no question; either of us are going to die. If you survive today, we are going to die. If we survive today, you are going to die. It's almost that easy, but I haven't thought it through too much, might be factors I'm forgetting here.

Oh hurr, maybe? YOU THINK A ****ING COP ROLE MIGHT AFFECT THAT? You essentially admit to running scared here.

No, I'll read the game to some degree. It'll get skimmed. I'm not going to act like I'm reading 20 pages in depth, but I'll get the jist.

How in the hell would reading it change the fact that you're playing this scenario out from a scum PoV rather than town?

Thing is, I've been playing this game. Axel has been playing this game. There are many people currently with town reads on us because we've been town. Our play lines up.

Do I give a ****? Look at the playerlist.

On the other hand
Gorf has been found scummy by multiple people.
Ryker has been found lying on multiple occasions and his play has not been lining up.

Come at me bro.

 

[Omni]

ryker u dont have to read the entire game. it's literally filled with just Brosuke posting every other post.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

ryker u dont have to read the entire game. it's literally filled with just Brosuke posting every other post.

Probably has something to do with all the town reads on him with such a malleable cast.

@Brosuke - You're doing it again. You're shunning the option that nets you the most insight into this investigative duel and instead are aiming to lynch me because you're "afraid Ryker might be scum and could pull off a win through really bad odds." Bull****. Not Xonar-town's course of action.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Voted |

Voter(s)​

|

Votes to lynch​

Ryker |

Brosuke, Axel, felipe_9595​

|

3 / 6​

Axel |

Ryker​

|

1 / 6​

Gorf |

Sworddancer., Omni​

|

2 / 6​

---​

Not voting: Inferno, Gorf, Red Ryu, Soupamario, Bardull;

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gorf is not getting lynched today.

You can still be scum while Gorf is town.

Nope.

Not doing this.

Vote: Gorf

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Brosuke, shut up about Ryker trying to survive as either alignment, I've yelled at him for this before and is 100% null and is trying to appeal to people who dislike this as well.

I don't give two ****s about that.

I care about what is best for town objectively over lynching someone for play I dislike him doing in a lot of games to influence me.

Two cops means we lynch Gorf, Gorf's flip matter 100% more than Rykers. In addition to this, if you think if Gorf flips scum I'm going to let Ryker ride this out, you better think again. I sure as hell will not let ScumRyker wright that off as nothing if it happens.

Plus, Gorf is nowhere to be found, Ryker is here, Gorf is a liability at this point for giving no info and being inactive.

He dies first, I will not be changing my mind from this.

 

[Omni]

i dont see how voting potential town-cop has any merit over getting rid of Gorf who has a mixed flip and his death gives us a good amount of information on both Axel and Ryker. i think RR said this statement nearly word for word earlier on

i -hate- how Axel/Xonar/Felipe have been ignoring this very obvious point. i also dislike how easily both have acquitted Felipe all together. and lastly, i hate that Gorf isn't here for any of it.

regarding the investigative roles. i dont see it being past Gheb to make it intentionally like this. masons with cross alignments. roles that produce opposite reads (WL's Town Traitor role). for all we know, lynching Gorf and going from there could be a horribad idea, but since we've already come down this road of "Everyone Claim and Meta Gheb's Mafia Game" we might as well follow through. at least until this Day is over.

 

[Omni]

@axel: answer all of my questions. ive asked you several. read up if you dont know what they are.
@brosuke: the same applies to you.

oh fyi bardull, i wasn't pushing Felipe after Axel's claim.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

- it doesn't make sense to vote Ryker. we have to investigative roles having a town and scum on Gorf. the most logical conclusion is to vote Gorf hands down. however, we have Axel here voting Ryker which completely goes against what he should know "without a doubt". it doesn't make a lick of sense to vote for Ryker if you are in Axel's position.

[collapse="the point I'm making here"]Gorf town? Ryker can be anything.
Gorf scum? Ryker is scum saving a scummate.

Ryker town? Gorf town.
Ryker scum? Gorf can be anything.

Looking at these odds, I know it is better to lynch Gorf. The problem is, that you, Ryker, are an unbelievable survivalist who will sacrifice multiple towns-folks to survive.

As town vanilla: conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As town cop: get guilty, push it, survive as Rykertown (unlikely, I am town, I feel Axel is town too)
As town cop: get innocent, conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As scum: conjure guilty, survive as Rykerscum, win game.

I don't trust you regardless of your town/scum-being with the position you're in now. [/collapse]

- brosuke, you're not really playing mafia IMO. it's more like Claim Wars where you're trying to meta a closed set-up with no confirmation on what roles could or would exist. your push has thrown regular scumhunting out the window to the point where players like me, Soupa, Inferno, and RR don't really have to do **** except comment on what we think the mechanics of the game were built.

Fluff.

if this was BK and i could have it my way i would:
1.) lynch Gorf
2.) hope someone kills Brosuke overnight
3.) find out Gorf is town and lynch Axel

So you think I'm town?

the problem with all of this is that Axel as scum would not ****ing say Gorf is scum and risk being outed as i said earlier. the same applies to Ryker. as a scum role for both of them, these gambits provide lots of risk with very little reward. if i was scum i wouldn't gambit anything on the off chance of perhaps getting Gorf lynched earlier; he's not worth the slot in the least bit

How short-sighted to group Ryker and Axel like that. I don't see how Ryker's gambit has a low reward as scum. Explain that to me?

I do agree on Gorf not being worth this much trouble for Ryker. Mhm. Great point there.

Oh hurr, maybe? YOU THINK A ****ING COP ROLE MIGHT AFFECT THAT? You essentially admit to running scared here.

Of course I'm scared, regardless of either of our alignments, you're going to try to kill me (or Axel).

ryker u dont have to read the entire game. it's literally filled with just Brosuke posting every other post.

End of day 1:
Omni - ~110
Xonar - ~55

Probably has something to do with all the town reads on him with such a malleable cast.

So yeah, that town read people have on Omni? Probably has something to do with all the town reads on him with such a malleable cast.

I want to punch things now.

@Brosuke - You're doing it again. You're shunning the option that nets you the most insight into this investigative duel and instead are aiming to lynch me because you're "afraid Ryker might be scum and could pull off a win through really bad odds." Bull****. Not Xonar-town's course of action.

I'm trying to lynch you because I don't want to die, and I don't want Axel to die. I've said this on multiple occasions now, why don't you just accept it yet?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Brosuke, shut up about Ryker trying to survive as either alignment, I've yelled at him for this before and is 100% null and is trying to appeal to people who dislike this as well.

I don't give two ****s about that.

I care about what is best for town objectively over lynching someone for play I dislike him doing in a lot of games to influence me.

Two cops means we lynch Gorf, Gorf's flip matter 100% more than Rykers. In addition to this, if you think if Gorf flips scum I'm going to let Ryker ride this out, you better think again. I sure as hell will not let ScumRyker wright that off as nothing if it happens.

Plus, Gorf is nowhere to be found, Ryker is here, Gorf is a liability at this point for giving no info and being inactive.

He dies first, I will not be changing my mind from this.

...
You're asking me to let the player survive who is going to kill the two slots who I perceive as most town? (myself and Axel)

Like, I can see why others don't mind. But it'd be weird for me to just let that happen.

...

Ugh I need to think this over.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Alright I'm slightly lost. I need someone to bounce ideas off of, so if the active user viewing this thread that's not me wants to speak up now, please do so.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Assume:

Xonar = Town
Axel = Town
Ryker = Scum

Ryker survives today and starts tomorrow by claiming a guilty on Xonaxel. What does town do?

 

[Omni]

Gorf town? Ryker can be anything.
Gorf scum? Ryker is scum saving a scummate.

Ryker town? Gorf town.
Ryker scum? Gorf can be anything.

Looking at these odds, I know it is better to lynch Gorf. The problem is, that you, Ryker, are an unbelievable survivalist who will sacrifice multiple towns-folks to survive.

you are coming to conclusions that are not confirmed, Xonar. more importantly, this equation doesn't even include Axel. if you agree that Gheb's setup is twisted, how can you come to such static game mechanic conclusions where you've already stated in a nutshell that anything can go?

ryker and i sacrificing multiple town-folks? for me, Xonar, i have no idea if they are town folk or not which is why they can be sacrificed. what makes you think the people i'm willing to sacrifice are town? is this a slip? or are you very confident in your reads that the people i've wanted to kill over inactivity and lack of playing are town? fos: xonar

As town vanilla: conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As town cop: get guilty, push it, survive as Rykertown (unlikely, I am town, I feel Axel is town too)
As town cop: get innocent, conjure guilty, survive as Rykertown, sacrifice Axel/Brosuke.
As scum: conjure guilty, survive as Rykerscum, win game.

why are you so adamant about Axel being town? and if you truly believe he is 100% town then why are both of you entertaining a Ryker lynch when it should be 100% certain that Gorf is scum?

I don't trust you regardless of your town/scum-being with the position you're in now.

dont care

So you think I'm town?

if i thought u were town i wouldn't wish that u would die.

How short-sighted to group Ryker and Axel like that. I don't see how Ryker's gambit has a low reward as scum. Explain that to me?

I do agree on Gorf not being worth this much trouble for Ryker. Mhm. Great point there.

what does Ryker have to gain in protecting Gorf? town is up ahead one mafia. this kind of gambit would be more plausible late game with a mafia advantage; not early game with a town advantage. that's why Ryker's gambit has a low reward; the risk being that well everyone flips **** cuz he lied like RR and everyone jumps down his throat.

End of day 1:
Omni - ~110
Xonar - ~55

Spoiler

Touche.

 

[Omni]

Assume:

Xonar = Town
Axel = Town
Ryker = Scum

Ryker survives today and starts tomorrow by claiming a guilty on Xonaxel. What does town do?

this depends entirely on Gorf's flip which u left out the scenario

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

this depends entirely on Gorf's flip which u left out the scenario

Exactly how does it depend on that flip?

Reading ur post, gimme sec

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

you are coming to conclusions that are not confirmed, Xonar. more importantly, this equation doesn't even include Axel. if you agree that Gheb's setup is twisted, how can you come to such static game mechanic conclusions where you've already stated in a nutshell that anything can go?

ryker and i sacrificing multiple town-folks? for me, Xonar, i have no idea if they are town folk or not which is why they can be sacrificed. what makes you think the people i'm willing to sacrifice are town? is this a slip? or are you very confident in your reads that the people i've wanted to kill over inactivity and lack of playing are town? fos: xonar

Sorry, that post was towards Ryker and quoted. I wasn't blaming you of anything. Sacrificing multiple town folks refers back to me being pretty sure that Ryker will try to get me and Axel offed just to survive. So that's a miscommunication there.

The conclusion is not confirmed, but I really think that Ryker is out to get mine/Axel's *** regardless of our alignment, just to survive.

why are you so adamant about Axel being town? and if you truly believe he is 100% town then why are both of you entertaining a Ryker lynch when it should be 100% certain that Gorf is scum?

Killing Ryker is to preserve myself and my best town read. I've been on this multiple times.

dont care

What reason do you have to still trust Ryker? Serious question.

what does Ryker have to gain in protecting Gorf? town is up ahead one mafia. this kind of gambit would be more plausible late game with a mafia advantage; not early game with a town advantage. that's why Ryker's gambit has a low reward; the risk being that well everyone flips **** cuz he lied like RR and everyone jumps down his throat.

...He never predicted to get his lie outed at this stage, remember? That's why it wasn't high risk in the first place.

The reward being high regardless of Gorf's alignment I've already explained. I promise.

Sorta OoC:
Really Omni, I can see you as town in some ways for this, but on the other hand it looks like you haven't read all the points I've brought forth and are forgetting some severe factors here. I've read this game at least 30 times, this is my game. I'm into it and I want to win it. So many things in this game that I know by heart. I'm not losing this, and I feel like you're challenging my knowledge of the game on some points. While that isn't scummy, it is extremely frustrating.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Exactly how does it depend on that flip?

Reading ur post, gimme sec

THIS is most important right now. I want to keep bouncing this until you make me satisfied with leaving Ryker alive, because that's what you want, right? If you conclude that I can't be satisfied with keeping Ryker alive, then I won't be.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

...
You're asking me to let the player survive who is going to kill the two slots who I perceive as most town? (myself and Axel)

Like, I can see why others don't mind. But it'd be weird for me to just let that happen.

...

Ugh I need to think this over.

Your also leaving out how Felipe will doc one of you tonight if Gorf flips scum.

Assume:

Xonar = Town
Axel = Town
Ryker = Scum

Ryker survives today and starts tomorrow by claiming a guilty on Xonaxel. What does town do?

Gorf flip 110% matters here, he loses credibility on getting the wrong alignment on Gorf and Axel being right.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Brosuke, if both are scum to you, why does it matter that Ryker goes first?

We got a Doc here for ya, so lynching Gorf could confirm Axel as the real cop and Ryker as scum. Lynching Ryker does nothing about Gorf, where are Lynching Gorf will do it for Ryker.

He's not going to play this off, if he is proven to be lying he dies.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ohhhhhhhhh

And then it clicked.

Forgot about Axel's thingy.



Vote: Gorf

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Seriously I was making a counterpost and then I discovered

but hey

if Gorf does flip town

then Axel is wrong

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT

 

[Omni]

cool about the misunderstandings

killing Ryker for self preservation... hrm. you're going under the intention that Ryker is auto-scum? if Gorf flips town and Ryker gets a guilty on Axel, how would you feel? and if you are town and Ryker is cop then what exactly do you fear? a scum flip on Gorf means Ryker looks bad. a town flip on Gorf means Ryker looks good. all-in-all, you should have nothing to fear regardless of any investigation made on yourself... so what does killing Ryker do in regards of self-preservation?

i don't sense scum in Ryker's posts. he doesn't seem to be flailing and his frustration screams PO'd townie rather than Salty Angry scum. this is me playing mafia here; not pouring attention into the flips.

hm @ OoC

im town and im here to win it, too. my main beef with you is your overzealous protection of Axel and somewhat disregard for Felipe. this OoC does make me feel better about u. tbh, if neither you nor Axel flip scum i will contest that my reads are off, but i would have a hard time resetting.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

killing Ryker for self preservation... hrm. you're going under the intention that Ryker is auto-scum? if Gorf flips town and Ryker gets a guilty on Axel, how would you feel? and if you are town and Ryker is cop then what exactly do you fear? a scum flip on Gorf means Ryker looks bad. a town flip on Gorf means Ryker looks good. all-in-all, you should have nothing to fear regardless of any investigation made on yourself... so what does killing Ryker do in regards of self-preservation?

Nope, not going under the intention that Ryker is auto-scum. Just under the intention that Ryker will try to off me regardless of alignment. Still scared of that, but I can see now how getting Gorf is better.

Ryker will conjure up results to self-preservate. That's what I'm fearing.

my main beef with you is your overzealous protection of Axel and somewhat disregard for Felipe.

Understandable from your PoV.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yes. I can see now.

Still scared of Ryker's preservationist play here. But relying on Town to not straight-out trust him regardless of what happens.

 

[Omni]

if ryker is scum, yes, he will conjur results to self-preservate. but lets just look at it from simple terms.

two cop like players get two different results on one player. that one player flips and we have new evidence to look into. if Ryker ever investigates and the flip is wrong then he is outted as auto-scum. cops who come up with results that are false after the lynch don't survive. problem here is that now that his role is outed night actions can **** **** up. but that's just WIFOM we have to deal with now that everyone and their mom has claimed.

regardless, flips will speak for themselves toMorrow. and **** will go down toNight again. any real further debate now is useless since we aren't actually mafia scumhunting nor are we applying pressure to anyone outside of Gorf/Ryker/Axel.

 

[Omni]

a scarier in-game preservation is Felipe IMO

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

if ryker is scum, yes, he will conjur results to self-preservate. but lets just look at it from simple terms.

What stops him from doing this as town?

 

[Omni]

why would he fabricate flips as town? it doesn't benefit him to lynch townies for his own survivability

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It would if it's me and Axel.

He could write wrong results off as set-up stuff here, and more. It's Ryker, he's slippery, he can pull that off. It would help him survive, which I feel he puts over scum-hunting.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It should be obvious by now that I don't trust Ryker in the slightest.