G3S Mafia #4 | Game over - Town wins!

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Ryu: how far off was my pressure from Ran;s was I ? How hard did ran go in your game

 

[Xivii]

^was BW's game: http://smashboards.com/threads/dr-who-mafia-endgame-town-wins-the-universe-is-doomed.336422/page-5

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That is fair to think, but things were much more clear in those games. There was so much more to go with. We already had a claim and clearer scum reads. They were a bit easier to read. Here, everything is unclear and it's much tougher to make a read out of something that I'm not even sure of. In the game where I reacted cool to pressure, the pressure was nothing compared to what Rake through. I thought I was in trouble right from the get go, so I floundered poorly until Rake opened my eyes with his explanations; on that, I stepped back and tried to think a lot more with any content since I already fell apart once in this game. Hence why I'm sticking on the read I finally ended up making. I don't want to waffle anymore than I already have.

Make stances regardless of how strong or weak you feel they are on the whole cast, and why you think that way.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Ok RR, gimmie a moment.

 

[Sokr]

You on CPU?

I am now. I wasn't at the time of those posts.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Please forgive me, may take a little longer because my internet crapped out mid-post. I saved it, but I cannot navigate the page until I fix it. I'll post my full list once laptop is going again.

Sorry again

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: Scary

[collapse=Update]Town: Zen, Rake, Kantrip, Ruy, Kafkaesque

Null: Scary, Xatres

Vigbait: frozenmarsh (possibly trying to draw in the mafia kill by playing like a PR? Whatevs vig this dude for real)

Weak Scum Lean: Joey, Magic Bounce

Strong Scum Lean: Sokr [/collapse]

What changed?

 

[Sokr]

No explanation? Not even a quick sentence about how you agree with a point or two someone made? Nothing. And lynching without claim? Why? A claim is a chance to produce more content and (pardon my Xatres) get discussions going. I can't see a position in which town would ever want to lynch without a claim. Again, he's trying to stop information from being produced. Scummy.

Rake, any thoughts on Xatres or do you want to stick where we're at?

Can it be? An actual legit question? An attempt at scumhunting? Wait, where we're at? You haven't discussed this with Rake at all. You guys scum mates? Or are you trying to buddy with him again? Null.

I'm baffled as to why anyone thinks Scary is Town. Down to lynch him.

Can someone run over why Xatres is scummy? His posts are pretty mechanical, but I'm not really getting anything one way or another with regards to that.

Rake, I think we oughta swag wagon Scary again but full hardbody this time. And I'm Town.

MB, Rake's "Rambo" approach is fine and I'm having trouble believing you're genuinely having difficulty getting a read on the dude.

Zen, reads lists are ******** and I'm not doing that ****. I also don't care that you've failed to see me be vote hoppy before.

Finally. Some content. I'll talk about this line by line.

1) If you're down to lynch him, why didn't you vote him? More buddying of Rake? Null.

2) Ah, finally. His first analysis of a player. Null.

3) He's unwilling to scum hunt by himself and wants to make sure he has a partner to share the blame if things go south. And, unsurprisingly, that person he chooses is Rake. Scummy.

4) Sticking by Rake. I'm having trouble believing you genuinely have no difficulty getting a read on the dude. Unless you already know his alignment? Rake's a good player. Jumping behind him blindly is dumb. I learned this the hard way in FE:A. Null.

5) Null.

Vote: Scary

Oh we in there!

Oh here's the vote you should have given last post. An hour and a half later. Null.

Actually, I don't anymore. Cherish that moment!

No but for real, join me?

handreach.jpeg

He's finally gotten Rake's attention. I believe he's trying to get into Rake's good books so that Rake will overlook him for as long as possible. But I could be wrong. Null.

Ruy, I don't see what's scummy about vote jumping. I'm sirprised you think I'm scum for it when normally as scum I just tunnel and say LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

Lol @ Scary voting me and "something bugging him about my wording" and that my posts aren't helpful. Neither is concrete. Town needs to stop giving this dude the benefit of the doubt because he is new. Note that I'm being voted for "wahh unhelpful" and the only dude who has even tried to explain scumminess in my play is Ruy. And y'all call me lazy.

But you are saying LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH. Only this time, it's between three or four players.
Criticizes Scary for his gut reads. Scary is a new player and hasn't fully got the hang of developing reads yet. I remember in my first games when almost all of my reads were based off of gut. I wasn't scum either. Different views aren't a scumtell though.
Yes, you are being voted because you're unhelpful. Because you're doing it purposefully and in a scummy way. Do you have a solution to this? Do you think scum is on your wagon? Do you have anything to say at all other than "wahh love me while I be unhelpful" Scummy.

In conclusion, holy crap he's scummy. I'd be totally fine with him being the kill toDay.

 

[Sokr]

EBWOP derpderpderp

Ok. Wrt Fromo:

I've got a liiiiooon in my pocket
I'm lyin', I've got a niiiine in my pocket
And baby, I'm just dyiiiin' to **** it

Vote: Scary

I feel like we were moving out of RVS at this stage so this vote without saying anything else is odd. Possibly trying to get into Rake's good books? It's a stretch, but possible. Null or Scummy, depending on future posts.

Vote: Joey

We were definitely out of RVS at this point. A vote like this without any previous or accompanying content is enough to raise eyebrows. Scummy.

This was in response to MB trying to get content out of Fromo. This refusal to contribute content is gross. Scummy.

I'm not one to interrupt but...what the **** is up with that last question Potato? Like Joey's last post is suppose to be the least bit town?

What the **** is wrong with mother****ers these days. No wonder why garbageass mother****ers like Overswarm win over y'all; verbosity + effort = Town. ****'s sake, such an *** backwards mentality.

What is the purpose of this? All he's doing is quelling conversations and (surprise surprise) stopping content from being produced. Scummy.

Vote: Sokr

Best play. Please lynch without claim.

No explanation? Not even a quick sentence about how you agree with a point or two someone made? Nothing. And lynching without claim? Why? A claim is a chance to produce more content and (pardon my Xatres) get discussions going. I can't see a position in which town would ever want to lynch without a claim. Again, he's trying to stop information from being produced. Scummy.

Rake, any thoughts on Xatres or do you want to stick where we're at?

Can it be? An actual legit question? An attempt at scumhunting? Wait, where "we're" at? You haven't discussed this with Rake at all. You guys scum mates? Or are you trying to buddy with him again? Null.

I'm baffled as to why anyone thinks Scary is Town. Down to lynch him.

Can someone run over why Xatres is scummy? His posts are pretty mechanical, but I'm not really getting anything one way or another with regards to that.

Rake, I think we oughta swag wagon Scary again but full hardbody this time. And I'm Town.

MB, Rake's "Rambo" approach is fine and I'm having trouble believing you're genuinely having difficulty getting a read on the dude.

Zen, reads lists are ******** and I'm not doing that ****. I also don't care that you've failed to see me be vote hoppy before.

Finally. Some content. I'll talk about this line by line.

1) If you're down to lynch him, why didn't you vote him? More buddying of Rake? Null.

2) Ah, finally. His first analysis of a player. Null.

3) He's unwilling to scum hunt by himself and wants to make sure he has a partner to share the blame if things go south. And, unsurprisingly, that person he chooses is Rake. Scummy.

4) Sticking by Rake. I'm having trouble believing you genuinely have no difficulty getting a read on the dude. Unless you already know his alignment? Rake's a good player. Jumping behind him blindly is dumb. I learned this the hard way in FE:A. Null.

5) Null.

Vote: Scary

Oh we in there!

Oh here's the vote you should have given last post. An hour and a half later. Null.

Actually, I don't anymore. Cherish that moment!

No but for real, join me?

handreach.jpeg

He's finally gotten Rake's attention. I believe he's trying to get into Rake's good books so that Rake will overlook him for as long as possible. But I could be wrong. Null.

Ruy, I don't see what's scummy about vote jumping. I'm sirprised you think I'm scum for it when normally as scum I just tunnel and say LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

Lol @ Scary voting me and "something bugging him about my wording" and that my posts aren't helpful. Neither is concrete. Town needs to stop giving this dude the benefit of the doubt because he is new. Note that I'm being voted for "wahh unhelpful" and the only dude who has even tried to explain scumminess in my play is Ruy. And y'all call me lazy.

But you are saying LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH. Only this time, it's between three or four players.
Criticizes Scary for his gut reads. Scary is a new player and hasn't fully got the hang of developing reads yet. I remember in my first games when almost all of my reads were based off of gut. I wasn't scum either. Different views aren't a scumtell though.
Yes, you are being voted because you're unhelpful. Because you're doing it purposefully and in a scummy way. Do you have a solution to this? Do you think scum is on your wagon? Do you have anything to say at all other than "wahh love me while I be unhelpful" Scummy.

In conclusion, holy crap he's scummy. I'd be totally fine with him being the kill toDay.

 

[Xivii]

What changed?

Kafka.

 

[Sokr]

Btw, those are all his posts minus two or three including his confirming.

Expansion on the conclusion:

Fromo has been deliberately getting in the way of content being produced and information being created. He refuses to explain votes or produce any form of content. His one indication of going scumhunting was a request for Rake to help him through it.

Now, if Rake and him are scum buddies, they are playing it extremely well. But I don't think that's what's going on. So I'll say Rake=/=Fromo

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fromo has been deliberately getting in the way of content being produced and information being created. He refuses to explain votes or produce any form of content. His one indication of going scumhunting was a request for Rake to help him through it.

Yeah, this is null for marshy.

Gotta dig deeper if he is scum or not.

 

[Kantrip]

@Potassium: You make some valid points in your case against me, but also left some glaring holes as well. I'll run down the list.



This is actually pretty astute. I suppose a Sokr/Xatres scumteam COULD have planned it, but I think your assessment of T/T or T/S is logical.

Well I'm glad you understand my connection-based reading process now, at least.

On first read, you asked me directly why I voted for myself. Here's the exchange:





QUESTION: In our earlier exchange, you seemed to not only accept my reasoning, but expect that reasoning as well. What exactly made you more suspicious upon second read? Just gut feels?

I expected that answer because it was what I assumed you would say. I saw you as a player who loves to get people talking and have central events for people to discuss. That's the only town intent I can see to voting yourself and it lined up with your play in the past, so yeah I accepted that answer. What bothered me the second time wasn't that it didn't line up to your meta (not even town meta, just meta in general), but that it clearly disregarded half the point of votes and wagons, which is the act of pressuring a player. Now, maybe you just didn't have anywhere better for your vote. That would be understandable. But you helped Rake pressure Scary without giving him your vote. Making both your self vote and your Scary pressure relatively hollow when you could have given one of them (Scary pressure) more weight. This is what bugged me. I don't get why you would find your vote better on yourself than the player you are calling scum.

I guess I'll go ahead and ask again: What changed your mind? You specifically objected to this answer the first time, where I once again explained my general strategy D1 and pointed to meta. You admit to having accepted my answer at the time, and admit that my play so far has indeed fit my town meta to a tee. So... what's changed?

An important distinction to make is that your play is fitting your meta, before accounting for alignment. The stuff you were doing is stuff I would expect from YOU, but not necessarily from you as TOWN. I don't know your scum meta, and you've said you don't even have scum meta, so I can look at what you've given me and say "yeah, that's Xatres all right," but I can't say "yeah, Xatres is town all right." Do you get what I'm saying?

Again, you validate that my town meta is dead on, and yet still think I'm scum. Please explain why "there's more to it."

See two quotes above. More to it being there's more to reading your actions than just matching them to your meta. And again I will stress that I'm not matching to your town meta, but just your player meta in general.

This one is actually a valid point. I definitely could have thrown a vote on Scary to increase the pressure even harder, but I felt that might be taking a sledgehammer to an issue that might require only a standard, household one.

This explanation doesn't do it for me. There's really no such thing as too much pressure unless you accidentally get the slot you're pressuring lynched. There was obviously no risk of lynching Scary so your failure to put your vote where your mouth was was a bad oversight on your part. I find it weird that you said earlier to MB that you were so excited to play in a game with votes, and then you don't even USE yours properly.

All my first sentence did was give Sokr an update on my votecount. I fail to see how that is irksome.

If you are objecting to my second sentence (encouraging Sokr to vote for me if he thinks I'm scum), well... Do you not want players to put votes behind scumpicks? You literally JUST said it was scummy for me not to do so with Scary. Why is it not wrong for Sokr to do the same?

I was referring to the latter, and it bugged me because of how smug I imagine the statement being. Encouraging people to vote who they think is scum is one thing, but when that includes you that is NOT the correct response. Why not ask why they find you scum, try to convince them otherwise? Being fine with pressure because you're a townie is one thing, but inviting people to vote you is stupid. If you're town, you should still try to convince people not to vote for you because a vote on you would be a vote not on scum. That is what bugged me.

Unfortunately, at that point in the game, town didn't seem to think this. stuff. was. so. obvious. Both MB and Joey had offered serious objections to Rake's pressure on Scary. Since I was involved in pressuring Scary, I felt justified in offering an explanation.

And actually, if you look back at the posts leading up to #358, you were online and in-thread when all of this was going down. If you thought what Rake was doing was so obvious, why didn't you take a moment and explain it yourself? You seem to feel very strongly on the obviousness of the situation now, why didn't you feel strongly enough about it to post before?

I didn't point it out because it wasn't my business. Like, Rake was pressuring Scary and that's great. Why would I point it out? "Hey kids, look, Rake's pressure is just for a reaction and Scary isn't actually in danger. And look, Xatres is helping by adding some pressure of his own! Isn't that swell?"

No. That's ********.

***

There were a number of posts that you skipped in your reads, most of which were small and/or inconsequential. I do find it odd that you left out my #449, although you may have prepared your post before reading it. Thoughts on that one?

***

I'll look at that after this, but this little segment of your post is unnecessary. I don't make notes on every post, just the ones that stand out to me. If I didn't make note of a post, I probably didn't get anything alignment-wise out of it or deemed it unnecessary to comment on.

All in all, I'd say your case against me is actually pretty weak. It basically all hinges on me reacting TOO calmly to pressure, which if I recall, was exactly a reason levied against Dastrn and I in FE:A during D1 as well.

This is untrue. Read my responses and you'll see there's more to it. Also this is not what you guys were pushed for in FE:A.

You yourself admit that I'm matching my town meta perfectly, and yet you keep alluding to there being something sinister behind my posts without actually providing any evidence as to why.

I've covered how it's not your town meta you were matching, but rather your meta as a player, regardless of alignment. Sinister is the wrong word. I'm not pushing you for sinister intent. I think you're scum because of oversights on your part that make it look like you're not approaching the game from a town mindset.

You said a few times in your notes that my throwing a vote on myself was a waste of time. But if you actually look at the following posts, there was quite a bit of discussion about my play that allowed for a number of different interactions (including several with you). Clearly town was able to garner information from my choice to vote myself. You got to see who put votes on my slot after I voted myself, who objected to the decision, who kept putting pressure down, and who backed off. All of these can and will be useful in reads down the line.

You have a point with this. It wasn't a complete waste of time and I can actually see reasons to do this. However, my other points in this post regarding your self vote still stand. I will concede that it was not useless though.

***

Honestly, I'd say there's actually more in your notes condemning Sokr than there is condemning me. The difference is how you are choosing to interpret them.

Your notes on Sokr say, "This is confusing," and "That doesn't quite make sense," and yet declare him townie.

Yes there are things confusing me about his play but there are also things that he has done that I refuse to believe he could/would do as scum. Just because I find things strange doesn't mean I have to doubt my 99% towntells.

Your notes on me say, "This matches his town meta," and yet declare me scum.

Again, I'm generalizing, but I'd encourage anyone else to look through your notes and look for the incongruity themselves.

Meta point covered already.

Xatres still scum

 

[Kantrip]

Now, if Rake and him are scum buddies, they are playing it extremely well. But I don't think that's what's going on. So I'll say Rake=/=Fromo

You learn so well :')

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Make stances regardless of how strong or weak you feel they are on the whole cast, and why you think that way.

Town: Scary, RR, Joey

-I'm town, this I am certain.

-I like you RR, you've made sure you have played careful and have tried to rationalize every move that you've made. Even when wanting info out of myself or fromarsh, I like that you consider every option. Nothing worth considering scum with you.

-Joey I also have no issue with. He just hasn't done anything scummy or has slipped at all. Like me, once he saw through Rake's pressure on me, everything clicked.

Town Lean: Rake, Kantrip

-Rake, on my OMGUS, was of course one of my scum reads but that changed quickly on his explanations. All the pressure he placed just made sense. I am a still wary with the idea of the alliance. I know that he wanted further information from me based on my reactions to the alliance so I still kinda keep him at arm's distance. Cool with Rake.

-Kantrip seemed to move with Rake in the early game from what I saw. He's been genuine in scumhunting and hasn't really done anything wrong.


Null: MB, Kefkaesque, Xatres, Sokr

-MB I'm not sure about. I enjoy that he came to my aid against Rake's pressure but I don't know if there was any other intent.

-Kefka I don’t understand. I don’t have much at all about Kefka since he came in late so he will remain null for now.

-Xatres I really don’t know because he came along with Rake late but didn’t commit as mentioned by others. I don’t know if he had the same intent as Rake.

-Sokr is just null to me. Must have more posts lol.

Slight Scum Lean: Zen
I was fine with Zen up until the fodder comments and his read list. If he has FroMarsh lower on the totem pole than me, and we all fit his fodder label, than why me instead of him? There is something more there.
Scum Lean: FroMarsh
I don’t believe I have to explain this again. Something is there. Lack of cases, and just jumping on each wagon doesn’t have a town lean for me. I know Rake came back to me on here about the possibility of antitown but I just don’t see anything that aids the town.

I like Sokr a bit more after that. This is the best I've got for now. Relegated back to phone since laptop is being dumb.

 

[Kantrip]

I've noticed a strange change in tone from Scary recently. Scary is suddenly sounding a lot more level-headed, analytic, and intelligent and I'm not sure what to make of it. I want to like it, but then it makes his earlier "classic newbie play" look really gross. If we stick to his earlier "classic newbie play" being for real, then that makes this new Scary really strange. This would go beyond scummate coaching into scummate writing his posts for him territory. I don't know that he's scum but this is an interesting development.

@Someone who has read Scary's newbie games: Which version of Scary that we've seen in this game lines up more with his play in his newbies?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Town: Scary, RR, Joey

-I'm town, this I am certain.

-I like you RR, you've made sure you have played careful and have tried to rationalize every move that you've made. Even when wanting info out of myself or fromarsh, I like that you consider every option. Nothing worth considering scum with you.

-Joey I also have no issue with. He just hasn't done anything scummy or has slipped at all. Like me, once he saw through Rake's pressure on me, everything clicked.

Town Lean: Rake, Kantrip

-Rake, on my OMGUS, was of course one of my scum reads but that changed quickly on his explanations. All the pressure he placed just made sense. I am a still wary with the idea of the alliance. I know that he wanted further information from me based on my reactions to the alliance so I still kinda keep him at arm's distance. Cool with Rake.

-Kantrip seemed to move with Rake in the early game from what I saw. He's been genuine in scumhunting and hasn't really done anything wrong.


Null: MB, Kefkaesque, Xatres, Sokr

-MB I'm not sure about. I enjoy that he came to my aid against Rake's pressure but I don't know if there was any other intent.

-Kefka I don’t understand. I don’t have much at all about Kefka since he came in late so he will remain null for now.

-Xatres I really don’t know because he came along with Rake late but didn’t commit as mentioned by others. I don’t know if he had the same intent as Rake.

-Sokr is just null to me. Must have more posts lol.

Slight Scum Lean: Zen
I was fine with Zen up until the fodder comments and his read list. If he has FroMarsh lower on the totem pole than me, and we all fit his fodder label, than why me instead of him? There is something more there.
Scum Lean: FroMarsh
I don’t believe I have to explain this again. Something is there. Lack of cases, and just jumping on each wagon doesn’t have a town lean for me. I know Rake came back to me on here about the possibility of antitown but I just don’t see anything that aids the town.

I like Sokr a bit more after that. This is the best I've got for now. Relegated back to phone since laptop is being dumb.

I want everyone's thoughts on this.

 

[Sokr]

You learn so well :')

Thanks bud! I try.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I've noticed a strange change in tone from Scary recently. Scary is suddenly sounding a lot more level-headed, analytic, and intelligent and I'm not sure what to make of it. I want to like it, but then it makes his earlier "classic newbie play" look really gross. If we stick to his earlier "classic newbie play" being for real, then that makes this new Scary really strange. This would go beyond scummate coaching into scummate writing his posts for him territory. I don't know that he's scum but this is an interesting development.

@Someone who has read Scary's newbie games: Which version of Scary that we've seen in this game lines up more with his play in his newbies?

Who really believe he is being coached town or scum?? I've never had someone coach me as scum. I've never seen anyone around here coach scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Still not ok with Scary after that, though the change is defiantly different.

 

[Sokr]

I want everyone's thoughts on this.

I don't like his Joey read. Town=/=lack of scum content.
I disagree with his reasoning for his Zen read. Kind of omgusy. He's starting to do that too much.

 

[Kantrip]

Same thing with Laundry. Why ask these questions?

They help me read the players I asked them too. Were you expecting another answer?

Why was Zen leaning town to you at all during this period of time? There doesn't seem to be enough content in thread to justify this read.

[Collapse=early Zen notes]

-Zen #24 – Zen asking strange questions; #26 – Zen making strange request of everyone. Different than play in FE:A. More involved, less care about what he says. Very slight town lean.


-Zen/Rake #31-#35, #37, #38 – Not scum mates.


-Zen #98 – Immediate switch from inactive lynch to voting Xatres. Looks like pressure, not opportunism. Zen still townie.


-Zen #135 – Actually a good point. Xatres saying he's fine with a wagon on him for generating discussion is consistent with what I'd expect, but that's an easy thing to say. Hm. Pressuring him could prove valuable, curious to see if he maintains the “this is good” line of thought as more votes pile on. Back to null until then.[/collapse]

Honestly Xat "holding his cards pretty close to his chest" is pretty null of him. In matter of fact I get a slight town read due to his honesty. It's a generic way of thinking, I know, but I think scum would generally avoid saying things like that that will make them look bad in public.

This is an interesting point. A scum that gets called out for holding his cards close might try to show some of his cards to prove he has stuff to show and isn't trying to be so closed-handed on purpose. I think it's easy to fake as scum and still null though.

If you were anyone but Laundry I would vote you for this. It's very surface level stuff, but at least it's not calculated.

What makes Laundry different?

Actually never mind MB town (late page 5 and early page 6 postings).

I like that Kafkaesque changed reads on MB while going through. Shows he's weighing town vs scum and not just sticking to reads once he's obtained them.

Rake vs Joey was TvT

Joey and Rake are town as ****.

Kantrip is also town as ****. I was actually worried about him at first because his early game didn't seem to have a direction (early vote on Xat seemed useless, so was the vote on FM), but he really bombshelled later and I'

What is this supposed to say? It's cut off.

WL town. RR leans town.

Xat leans townie. Everything from the way he states that he doesn't want to bias his results, to the way that he pressured Scary does not strike me as fabricated at all. However with his recent post where he disclosed his intent over pressuring Scary I'm not too sure where he wants to go now. He simply stated that both Rake and WL had good points, which isn't really committing to anything. This is fine for the time being, but I'll like to see him decide on this read as well as develop other reads,

Will talk to Kantrip about tihs tomorrow.

Talk about what? Is that tomorrow as in game day or real life day?

As per Zen's request:

Town:

Rake
Laundry
Joey


town leans:

RR
Kantrip
Xat

scum leans: Scary

null: FM for inactivity.
everyone else because I haven't thought/read about it yet.

Vote: Scary

Night duders.

Why am I only a town lean if you called me town as **** like Rake and Joey, who are full town?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Coached???

Man I just cannot catch a break. RR and Zen both said that I can substantiate better than I had been, so I go ahead and try to and the first thing that comes up is coaching.

Ok.

 

[Kantrip]

Town: Scary, RR, Joey

-I'm town, this I am certain.

-I like you RR, you've made sure you have played careful and have tried to rationalize every move that you've made. Even when wanting info out of myself or fromarsh, I like that you consider every option. Nothing worth considering scum with you.

Point about seeing you consider every option is legit as ****.

-Joey I also have no issue with. He just hasn't done anything scummy or has slipped at all. Like me, once he saw through Rake's pressure on me, everything clicked.

First point is pretty garbage, second point is reasonable. I don't see why Joey is full town over a town lean for "not scum slipping." Meh.

Town Lean: Rake, Kantrip

-Rake, on my OMGUS, was of course one of my scum reads but that changed quickly on his explanations. All the pressure he placed just made sense. I am a still wary with the idea of the alliance. I know that he wanted further information from me based on my reactions to the alliance so I still kinda keep him at arm's distance. Cool with Rake.

This is pretty basic after seeing what he's said previously.

-Kantrip seemed to move with Rake in the early game from what I saw. He's been genuine in scumhunting and hasn't really done anything wrong.

Point on me is similar to his point on Joey. Town lean makes sense with this, especially given how much more content I have than Joey. I don't see how Joey got full town, still.

Null: MB, Kefkaesque, Xatres, Sokr

-MB I'm not sure about. I enjoy that he came to my aid against Rake's pressure but I don't know if there was any other intent.

Do like that he's not trying to fit MB into a townread just because he defending him. Good stuff.

-Kefka I don’t understand. I don’t have much at all about Kefka since he came in late so he will remain null for now.

Completely fair.

-Xatres I really don’t know because he came along with Rake late but didn’t commit as mentioned by others. I don’t know if he had the same intent as Rake.

@Scary: What intent do you think he had?

-Sokr is just null to me. Must have more posts lol.

I think there's stuff to read Sokr on but not gonna penalize him for this, it's reasonable.

Slight Scum Lean: Zen
I was fine with Zen up until the fodder comments and his read list. If he has FroMarsh lower on the totem pole than me, and we all fit his fodder label, than why me instead of him? There is something more there.

This is really surface level but I expect that from newbies. It does kind of bug me that Zen is voting for Scary so Scary scumreads Zen, but his reason that he gives is legit.

Scum Lean: FroMarsh
I don’t believe I have to explain this again. Something is there. Lack of cases, and just jumping on each wagon doesn’t have a town lean for me. I know Rake came back to me on here about the possibility of antitown but I just don’t see anything that aids the town.

Pretty much the same as Zen. Convenient that it's someone voting for him, but at the same time the reasoning makes sense.

I like Sokr a bit more after that. This is the best I've got for now. Relegated back to phone since laptop is being dumb.

@Scary: By after that do you mean his case on frozenmarsh?

@Ruy: Can you answer my question about his meta? Is he playing closer to his newbie games now, or was he closer earlier?

 

[Kantrip]

Coached???

Man I just cannot catch a break. RR and Zen both said that I can substantiate better than I had been, so I go ahead and try to and the first thing that comes up is coaching.

Ok.

Never mind RR you don't need to.

Scary is town, guys.

I'm down to lynch Xatres or frozenmarsh

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@Kantrip: Yes.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Actually kinda liked Scary's big post.

Little worried about the change of tone but there are all of 3 players here good enough / who would be invested enough to coach scary through this type of thing

Me: (im town so one down)
Fromarsh: Like i said before, would bet faster that marshy would ditch his ass
MB: Raz saved me as town bro's in soupanewbie, and he's experienced enough to do it as scum. But he'd also know we'd see teh switch and leap onto scary hella rambo style.

No offence to Ryu who i think is excellent at mafia, but i def feel he'd let his scum mate (scary in this hypothetical) drag himself out

 

[frozenmarsh751]

Scary is town, guys.

No. **** outta hear blowing steam outta good wagon because you want to act authorative. Why Xatres?

Sokr, your case boils down to me being anti-town and wrongly attributing scumminess to it.

Damn, Scary makes a big post after some heat and now everything's cool? Goddamn Town, let's get it together and pull the trigger by the 15th.

 

[Kantrip]

No. **** outta hear blowing steam outta good wagon because you want to act authorative. Why Xatres?

Sokr, your case boils down to me being anti-town and wrongly attributing scumminess to it.

Damn, Scary makes a big post after some heat and now everything's cool? Goddamn Town, let's get it together and pull the trigger by the 15th.

If you're asking why Xatres you haven't been reading.

You haven't said why Scary is scum. He's not town because he made a big post. He's town because of what he said in it (among other posts).

 

[Kantrip]

Actually kinda liked Scary's big post.

Little worried about the change of tone but there are all of 3 players here good enough / who would be invested enough to coach scary through this type of thing

Me: (im town so one down)
Fromarsh: Like i said before, would bet faster that marshy would ditch his ***
MB: Raz saved me as town bro's in soupanewbie, and he's experienced enough to do it as scum. But he'd also know we'd see teh switch and leap onto scary hella rambo style.

No offence to Ryu who i think is excellent at mafia, but i def feel he'd let his scum mate (scary in this hypothetical) drag himself out

So what's the conclusion here? Are you still gunning for him or are you looking elsewhere?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If you're asking why Xatres you haven't been reading.

You haven't said why Scary is scum. He's not town because he made a big post. He's town because of what he said in it (among other posts).

Disagree.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Ruy: Can you answer my question about his meta? Is he playing closer to his newbie games now, or was he closer earlier?

More middle ground, but still not up to pair.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

havent decided kantrip because that big post is just such a visible change im like wtf did we just tell scumScary how to make himself look townier by being all opn and **** or was my pressure just so legit and amaziing and scary that he **** his town pants at the speed of it and this is his final form

 

[Kantrip]

Disagree.

Do you want to explain, now that me, Sokr, and Rake have all said that we like the post you quoted?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

havent decided kantrip because that big post is just such a visible change im like wtf did we just tell scumScary how to make himself look townier by being all opn and **** or was my pressure just so legit and amaziing and scary that he **** his town pants at the speed of it and this is his final form

I'm sorry but I just had to crack up at this. Golden.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

hey woah woah hey.

i said i kinda liked it, that doesnt make hi mtown it makes him i have to look teh **** over this and slam my fists of justice into the meaty flesh of this games underbelly

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Plus ryus point is hella legit and worth pondering about.

Now imma peace out to do some java prgramming but imma be back to do all the things.

ALL. THE . THINGS

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Do you want to explain, now that me, Sokr, and Rake have all said that we like the post you quoted?

Because the coached point is bull and even I agree there.

Him being frustrated, it's AtE I won't bye into that.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

...just such a visible change im like wtf did we just tell scum how to make himself look townier by being all opn and ****

****** ask why I play the way I do.

 

[Kantrip]

As I said: "This would go beyond scummate coaching into scummate writing his posts for him territory."

I think it's a silly idea too. But then how do you explain his improvement from a scum POV?