G3S Mafia #4 | Game over - Town wins!

[frozenmarsh751]

Uhmmm...he thinks, 'oh ****, ****** be voting me so lemme step it up'

Dafuq

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Uhmmm...he thinks, 'oh ****, *****s be voting me so lemme step it up'

Dafuq

this oh god this.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Goddammit my reads are **** and it's D1.

The **** is this

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Goddammit my reads are **** and it's D1.

The **** is this

happens in most mafia games, **** sucks.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

If I counted right, I think I'm at L-2. I'm beat so I'm heading off to sleep. Here's to hoping that nap doesn't get extended.

 

[Xatres]

@Potassium: Going to try to respond concisely, as I know repeated multi-quote exchanges between two players at some point start getting ignored by town, and I'd rather people read what we're saying. (Also, I don't want to be up til 3 am again)

An important distinction to make is that your play is fitting your meta, before accounting for alignment. The stuff you were doing is stuff I would expect from YOU, but not necessarily from you as TOWN. I don't know your scum meta, and you've said you don't even have scum meta, so I can look at what you've given me and say "yeah, that's Xatres all right," but I can't say "yeah, Xatres is town all right." Do you get what I'm saying?

I get where you're coming from. My scum play in Meat World tends to closely resemble my town play, so this is a fair point. In general, I give myself away more when I'm not under pressure than when I am, so you could even argue that I intentionally encouraged a wagon on myself so I could stay where I was most comfortable. (Yes, this is me helping your case, but I firmly believe honesty is a townie's best weapon.)

Encouraging people to vote who they think is scum is one thing, but when that includes you that is NOT the correct response. Why not ask why they find you scum, try to convince them otherwise? Being fine with pressure because you're a townie is one thing, but inviting people to vote you is stupid. If you're town, you should still try to convince people not to vote for you because a vote on you would be a vote not on scum. That is what bugged me.

I'll disagree with you here. If someone is going to cast suspicion on me, I want them to back it up with a vote. I don't want to let someone skate by with tiny comments and no commitment. I've already established that I'm fine with being under pressure, because ultimately a lynch isn't decided until the last vote is cast. If town doesn't play stupid and quicklynch someone before discussion is complete, then there's really no danger to being under pressure at all.

This actually relates to why I didn't vote for Scary despite treating him like scum. Pressure doesn't always have to be all or none. Sometimes you apply partial pressure and gauge a reaction that way. Other times you slam someone hard. I chose the former intentionally, and we actually did get to see how Scary reacted. He didn't react at all. He stayed completely focused on Rake and ignored my posts entirely until his most recent post. Obviously he must have seen them, but he didn't seem to care at the time. To me, this a minor scumtell, as it shows he's not concerned with what I actually think, but about how close he is to getting lynched.

My decision also garnered responses from you.

The point I'm getting at is, I was ready and willing to offer an explanation for my choice of pressure on Scary. Sokr, on the other hand, completely abandoned his vote on me and never returned after I pushed him to vote. To me this speaks to scum intent.

You are obviously the Sokr expert in this game, so on some level town is going to differ to your judgment, but I'd encourage you to look more closely at the "confusing" bits of his play and see if your general reads are accurate. Read my post where I give my read on him and let me know what you think.

 

[Kantrip]

**** everything, I like that post.

This actually relates to why I didn't vote for Scary despite treating him like scum. Pressure doesn't always have to be all or none. Sometimes you apply partial pressure and gauge a reaction that way. Other times you slam someone hard. I chose the former intentionally, and we actually did get to see how Scary reacted. He didn't react at all. He stayed completely focused on Rake and ignored my posts entirely until his most recent post. Obviously he must have seen them, but he didn't seem to care at the time. To me, this a minor scumtell, as it shows he's not concerned with what I actually think, but about how close he is to getting lynched.

This is actually a really good point o.o

Did Scary really completely ignore your pressure and only focus on Zen's? And didn't he also quote someone else who voted him and say "what in the world?" Yet ignored you, who called him scum with fervor?

Also frozenmarsh is right in their #561, that does sound pretty bad. Gahhhh. Okay I'm going to reread Scary again.

I have no idea what I'm doing anymore

 

[Kantrip]

EBWOP: Zen's should be Rake's***

 

[Magic Bounce]

Vote: Scary

Votes are wasted on Marshy, been rereading Scary's posts in the newbies, he can substantiate better than this.

I'mma agree, his recent string of posts leave a lot to be desired. I can overlook newbie mistakes as simply that but when he continues to ride the fence, but everything else he's done is also incredibly weak and leaves a lot to be desired.

I still like FroMarsh less.

 

[Magic Bounce]

That is fair to think, but things were much more clear in those games. There was so much more to go with. We already had a claim and clearer scum reads. They were a bit easier to read. Here, everything is unclear and it's much tougher to make a read out of something that I'm not even sure of. In the game where I reacted cool to pressure, the pressure was nothing compared to what Rake through. I thought I was in trouble right from the get go, so I floundered poorly until Rake opened my eyes with his explanations; on that, I stepped back and tried to think a lot more with any content since I already fell apart once in this game. Hence why I'm sticking on the read I finally ended up making. I don't want to waffle anymore than I already have.

This is hella better though. Let's see if this is the lone diamond in the sea of **** or if this'll continue.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Raz it's too much better and you know this.

Tell me I'm crazy

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Kantrip: Kinda, he did essentially ignore Xat

 

[Magic Bounce]

Yeah, this is null for marshy.

Gotta dig deeper if he is scum or not.

No, that's null in general. Why don't we turn the null into something else?

 

[Magic Bounce]

I want everyone's thoughts on this.

It's sudden and different and is only coming after being called out and took constant browbeating to get it from him. I have it marked. Again, I want to see more, the newbies will always give themselves away one way or another.

 

[Magic Bounce]

Who really believe he is being coached town or scum?? I've never had someone coach me as scum. I've never seen anyone around here coach scum.

Not only that, being able to directly coach someone as scum is hard unless you're directly writing the posts yourself. If he is scum, I doubt he's being coached.

 

[Magic Bounce]

No. **** outta hear blowing steam outta good wagon because you want to act authorative. Why Xatres?

Sokr, your case boils down to me being anti-town and wrongly attributing scumminess to it.

Damn, Scary makes a big post after some heat and now everything's cool? Goddamn Town, let's get it together and pull the trigger by the 15th.

i wish i had my images folder gogdangit

 

[frozenmarsh751]

^

Needs to get some swag.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I wish i had reads but i have no ****ing clue.

Sokr reads off and probably needs to go, his fabricated reasoning falling to his feet me no gusta.

Scary improved too much too quickly, even though my advice was godlike it certainly wasn't gunna transsform him into a savante.

Laundry reminding me of his GS play slightly and it irks me that i can't egt the peices all the way there.

Fromarsh being marshy not surprising, slot'll die as town anyway so im not even gonna bother handling it unless it's around late game.

Ryu reads townie but hell if i get him right 60% of the damn time.

Kantrip reads townie .

Xat being the silliest goose just means he'll likely get vigged and be out of our hair.

Swordhydra mad lurking but comes in and makes points that are just too townie and im like well ****.

Joey is town and will be useless.

Zen is town and will be crazy

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No, that's null in general. Why don't we turn the null into something else?

Don't get this, explain.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[quote="Anomandaris_Rake, post: 15995140, member: 210672"Ryu reads townie but hell if i get him right 60% of the damn time.[/quote]

I'm town this game. why the read list here though?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

frozenmarsh751 [4] - Xatres, Magic Bounce, ScaryLB59, Sokr
Sokr [1] - Anomandaris_Rake
Xatres [1] - Potassium
ScaryLB59 [4] - Kafkaesque, frozenmarsh751, Zen, Red Ryu

Not voting [1] - Masquerain;

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[Magic Bounce]

Raz it's too much better and you know this.

Tell me I'm crazy

This wasn't me (Raz), so I guess you're crazy?

I'm also tending to agree that the difference is rather stark, but I hate kinda throwing him in the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" predicament.

I only briefly skimmed Americanadia mafia, so I'm not sure what Scary's posting is generally like. This is a stark difference WITHIN this game, sure, but we were also told that much of early game was spent posting from his phone. Are his posts now so different from his OTHER games that it would lead us to conclude that he's been coached?

I'm not terribly convinced of that being the crux of the argument either way. My issue with him right now is that his direction/pushes are still pretty damn shallow and surface-level, despite having the chance to improve. His reads are mostly looking solely at actions, and not at the intent behind them.

I'm (Raz) still conflicted on it. I'm afraid I'm giving him too much slack on things, but I really feel his INITIAL reactions were pretty Townie. Lately, not so much. Bleeeeehhh......

However, looking at who else is on the Fro-marsh wagon at the moment, I don't really want our vote parked here anymore. (I'm voting with people I'm not Town-reading, which is usually a red flag for me)

unvote

Given that we're nearing deadline, I would personally support a Sokr lynch most out of all the likely choices. I'm not gung-ho on it, but I'd also settle for Scary if it was that or a no-lynch.

Oh, I suppose it's also worth updating my personal reads list to note that I'm town-reading Rake at this point.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

[quote="Anomandaris_Rake, post: 15995140, member: 210672"Ryu reads townie but hell if i get him right 60% of the damn time.

I'm town this game. why the read list here though?[/quote]

I need to idea strom, my reads seem too easy but maybe i just expected more.

I dunno i dont feel like my reads are really that far off

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

This wasn't me (Raz), so I guess you're crazy?

I'm also tending to agree that the difference is rather stark, but I hate kinda throwing him in the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" predicament.

I only briefly skimmed Americanadia mafia, so I'm not sure what Scary's posting is generally like. This is a stark difference WITHIN this game, sure, but we were also told that much of early game was spent posting from his phone. Are his posts now so different from his OTHER games that it would lead us to conclude that he's been coached?

I'm not terribly convinced of that being the crux of the argument either way. My issue with him right now is that his direction/pushes are still pretty damn shallow and surface-level, despite having the chance to improve. His reads are mostly looking solely at actions, and not at the intent behind them.

I'm (Raz) still conflicted on it. I'm afraid I'm giving him too much slack on things, but I really feel his INITIAL reactions were pretty Townie. Lately, not so much. Bleeeeehhh......

However, looking at who else is on the Fro-marsh wagon at the moment, I don't really want our vote parked here anymore. (I'm voting with people I'm not Town-reading, which is usually a red flag for me)

unvote

Given that we're nearing deadline, I would personally support a Sokr lynch most out of all the likely choices. I'm not gung-ho on it, but I'd also settle for Scary if it was that or a no-lynch.

Oh, I suppose it's also worth updating my personal reads list to note that I'm town-reading Rake at this point.

I dunno man, I'm on the same page, in a sense , im like 60-40 on the switch, it's such a stark contrast im kinda like : this **** couldn't have been coached to him because who here would do it.

But on the other side I'm like: His reads are shallowish and the fact that there HAS been such a fast and easy streamline into these better posts bothers me. His sheepy style kinda gets to me but that's not the cruz of the problem. I think my problem lies with that, when ryu told him to elaborate more, then suddenly he has a gem of a post, but before when i was pressuring him, it was like just so bad. I know my pressure was strong but now that he's off the radar sudenly he looks like sir towns a lot and im like where the **** did this come from actually.

What about his latest responses bothered you precisely ?

I dont really like the fromarsh wagon tbh, not because of the people but because the only person doing any leg work on it is ryu, everyone is kinda just being like : Yo marshy's real mean and not pushing **** except to yell. And i'm like: well that's great and all but thats a marshy tell not a scum tell.

Like ryu's differentiation has me thinking on Marshy scum but honestly leaving him a day does no harm, if he's scum he'll be alive late game and we can ust lynch him / vig him then.

I'd be pretty alright with sokr going, i'm still trying to read you/wl but your post make me feel slightly better

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Raz , is yoru read on scary just null and thats why your okay with him going ? Because before WL was like so gung ho on me that I was suepr-evil bad guy for pressuring him. Was his read like strong town or some **** ?

I don't understand what about his better posting bothers you, especially given how in my face your hydra got with me over it

 

[Magic Bounce]

Raz , is yoru read on scary just null and thats why your okay with him going ? Because before WL was like so gung ho on me that I was suepr-evil bad guy for pressuring him. Was his read like strong town or some **** ?

I don't understand what about his better posting bothers you, especially given how in my face your hydra got with me over it

Y'know how in Wal-Mart I was defending your slot with Orbo not because I was totally convinced you guys were town but because I thought the case presented against you guys was stupid? This is the same thing.

 

[Magic Bounce]

Don't get this, explain.

I really want more from marshy. Hell, I expected more from marshy. I get that he has a tendency to coast and that FrozenFlame is also occupying the slot, but the last time this hydra rode, Marshy was doing everything in the first legs of the game while FF took over when marshy got burnt out. This is different. I know who marshy is and I have some vague semblance of how he plays the game and this is not normal from the few times I've played with him. I expect more. I definitely do not expect him to be null at the moment. He is. I want to fix that.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Y'know how in Wal-Mart I was defending your slot with Orbo not because I was totally convinced you guys were town but because I thought the case presented against you guys was stupid? This is the same thing.

Hmm alright yeah I guess that makes good sense

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Scary would you be willing to claim ?

Also for the amount of intereest in Sokr why the **** am i the only one votign him

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Scary would you be willing to claim ?

Also for the amount of intereest in Sokr why the **** am i the only one votign him

Sure, Im the Town Roleblocker.

 

[Xatres]

Also for the amount of intereest in Sokr why the **** am i the only one votign him

Because just as the case against Sokr was building we had an avalanche of other cases which distracted from it. (FroMar/Scary/me)

 

[Xatres]

-_-

@Scary: One player asking "would you be willing to claim" does not mean "claim right now."

 

[Kantrip]

...

*sigh*

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

K. We lynch Sokr today.

Legoo

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Scary, vote Sokr. Kantrip, stop defendign him, Xast, stop voting yourself.

Hella legit lynch gogogogog

 

[Kantrip]

Here's the problem. Scary claiming Roleblocker does not mean he's town. No one should counter claim, but that's the correct claim for scum to claim to try to draw CC's and the claim is essentially useless to us. If he's town, we've outed a PR. If he's scum, we've let him off the hook for making the only logical play. And we're not swinging to Sokr. He's town. Xatres/fromarsh are better plays

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Why is fromarsh better.

 

[Kantrip]

Because Sokr is town

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Prove it.jpg

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

And if your wrong on Fromarsh ?

What does Fromarsh give us, as a twon flip ?