G3S #2 - The great famine | Indy wins!

[#HBC | BadWolf]

"What did you like about his posts is what I would like to know. There's no way you should have a "townie for life" on someone this early in the game.

Definitely not a good excuse. You'll have to make up for it by being townie and actually trying to read people's intentions. What are your reads on us then? And what do you think about the interaction between us?


@X1: I dig you, but man Xonar is more of a threat. I'd rather go him first."

As of right now you both are null-scum. I've re-read the thread and right now both of you are being really aggressive towards each other. Right now I believe that scum lies within one of you.

The interaction is showing a little in terms of reads but generating next to no new posts and opinions.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

"Firstly you're mistaking the word 'target'. I never said 'incriminate' although I do believe you were trying to lead up to that. Target as in you honed in on it as a topic.

If you mean target as in honed in on it as a topic, then you're undermining your own argument. Go back and see how much time I've spent commenting on your playstyle.
I noted it once in a general post.
I've called you out directly on it.

Strawmanning.

Now as to why I feel you you were trying to lead up to incriminating me was, for one, the fact that you called me out on being "antagonizing" as if you were trying to imply that my posting style had something to do with my alignment. Second of all, it was such an immediate call-out. Like I have been saying, you weren't putting any thought into it, you just targeted it to target it. [/COLOR]

As for the first point, I've answered this before. I wasn't calling your posting style antagonistic, your reply was. Here is what I said:

The antagonizing thing is denying a request by a fellow player. If it disturbs that player without you intending it to, then it's not a problem. Said player requests you to stop, yet you continue, simply because you can not discern the motive.

Twisting information.

As for the second point, it was an immediate call out because I've had my eyes on you since your first post. Keep reading, Zen baby boy.

Ok, I can take that I'm misinterpreting this here. What do you mean by my though flow being annoying?

Keep reading.

This is such BS. As I have said he was clearly looking at both of them during that time. He had just made a response to adum and had shown that he was trying to get him to talk. For you to ask this so early in the game in order "to understand why he was hurpdurp voting him" is bs and you know it. Furthermore, your quote that you quoted below this once again shows contradiction your statement about not wanting him to switch to Acro. There was no initial and secondary thought. It's all the same thing. It's so clear that you simply slipped up haha.

Once again you're completely missing the mark.
What I said was that his vote was better spent on Acrostic at that moment. A vote on Adumb does not make him talk more, while a vote on Acrostic builds pressure, which he was supporting. In his own replies it is visible that he found Acrotic more suspicious.

There really was no reason to not pressure Acrostic.

And yeah, the initial and secondary thoughts are straight out of my notes. It's your perception that I slipped up, and you're sticking to it even when I've laid out where I'm coming from. Where is the flaw?

Haha no you don't get to do this. What you were trying to determine if I was faking a restriction? What you have some hunger gambit that has to do with restrictions? Out with it bro n_n."

Heh.

The subsequent interaction with zen I don't like, not enough to negate my read, but it seems frivolous and he gets more flustered about it then he should.

That was excitement.


See, before I go into more, this is a point that will probably interest you, Adumb.

"@X1: I dig you, but man Xonar is more of a threat. I'd rather go him first."

Note how he says I'm more of a threat, instead of focusing on scumminess which a town would do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alright, I'm gonna do this from the beginning. CASE!​

Let's start out with his initial post.

"Adum has already given off an unintentional town tell. Though I should keep that to myself."

While not a big point, it is what got me to frown at Zen. This is a type of openness not profitable to town.
You out an obvious town read if you don't want people to push that way or need elaboration, what you're doing is saying you have a town read on someone without elaborating. You know what that means? That means that scum knows something more about your slot that they can abuse.
If you would do this as town, it'd be detrimental and it's a subtle, but telling tell.

Then, let's look at the same post.

Now then, how should I go about this? I should be able to read X1 withing his first few posts. Adum has already given off an unintentional town tell. Though I should keep that to myself. Xonar is someone I'm going to need to get an early grasp on. Actually no he isn't. It will just be a waste of time. I'll put him aside until about day three. Or until I have a read on everyone else. It might be good just to policy lynch him as well hmm... Nah I'll go with the first plan. Circus, July Sang, and Acro are who I need to get early reads on. The moderate-active category.[/COLOR][/I]

And with that, Zen began to speak to the town.

[...]

Scum is likely between Acro, Circus, July, and Sang. All the women.

His thought process is not a town thought process. Mainly because of the underlined.

He is referring to SCUM likely being between Acro, Circus, July and Sang. Now, let's look at his PoE.

I should be able to read X1 withing his first few posts.

Adum has already given off an unintentional town tell. Though I should keep that to myself.

Xonar is someone I'm going to need to get an early grasp on. Actually no he isn't. It will just be a waste of time. I'll put him aside until about day three.

His PoE doesn't refer to scumminess. That's logical, because there hasn't been anything to go on. The illogical thing, is once again, in this;

Scum is likely between Acro, Circus, July, and Sang. All the women.[/FONT]

It's inconsistent. Why PoE based on how easy a slot is to read, only to call for the scum in the slots that you want to keep an eye on? That's going in with the mindset of finding scummy things, not scum.

That might not be a strong point, but in context of it being the first post, it smells.

Now, for this:

"Circus: Is avoiding an RVS vote something that you usually do? Or were you just following the trend? It's ok if it was the latter. Sometimes we unintentionally fall in line with the patterns others have unintentionally established."

He's giving Circus an out? Why? This is so off.
What you're doing is putting pressure, then immediately saying "oh but it's not a big deal". Scummy.

Then, another point;

"You asked me why I told him and stated that we could have gotten information from it. You have yet to give an example of how we could have. So far you have only explained a tell that had already happened (that badwolf would have known swiss wasn't in the game if he were scumbuds with one of them). He had already made that tell by asking if he was in the game. How could you have further gotten information had I not informed him that Swiss wasn't in the game?"

Acro was wrong, but not necessarily scummy. The scummy thing was calling it useless and proposing it. The idea itself is not, just wrong.[/QUOTE]
You're pushing him but for the wrong reason.

Then, there's the fact that you jump off Acro and on to me waaaay too fast, on the premise of the tell I told you. You did it all wrong, I am very sharp this game. From your first post til now I've been feeling you out and looking for potential partners.

Then there's the reason why I asked you about your posting style.

Remember how it initially was just a lose remark? That's because I wanted to test your reaction to it, when it could've simply been because I have found it annoying. I've done this consequentially.

Let's look at my play with some of my notes, shall we?

Vote: Ramen King

My first vote, which is explained above. Ramen's initial post rang alarms.

Zen, please drop that writing style. It makes it more annoying to read you.

I decided to do this. As explained above.

Then, you decide to ignore me. I obviously want results.

Zen, I asked you to drop it.

Drop it.

Simple poke. This time, instead of a request, I am more forceful. You had no reason at this point to continue with your posting style if I simply requested you to stop this, you can not deny this.
You then, instead of listening, seeing as I made sure that I am serious, go on with your posting style.

I then hint you that you're being an antagonist, here;

You have no reason to continue at this point, do you?

Now, after this quote, it is not about your posting style anymore. At this point, it's about your reply.


This is, once again, a completely legit point. It's a loaded question. You avoid it and vote me. I reveal my true accusation, hinting that I have a scum read on you.

The question I'm truly asking is; why are you being an antagonist?

And explaining why I think what I do;

The antagonizing thing is denying a request by a fellow player. If it disturbs that player without you intending it to, then it's not a problem. Said player requests you to stop, yet you continue, simply because you can not discern the motive.

That's being an antagonist.

Yes, at this point I feel like I've spent a lot of time feeling you out. You haven't satisfied me up til now whatsoever, even breaking focus on Acrostic. (which I'll get back to later)

Last piece of the puzzle: explain to me how asking you to stop is scummy when I can simply find it annoying when you post like that?

This is simply evidence of my true intention.

Then, I can go ahead and quote all my replies, because honestly, they do nothing but prove your replies to be inadequate and twists/strawmans. To walk past your replies real quick:

"-You target my posting style without even considering how it is troublesome. You have yet to state how it is so. This leads me to believe that you were just targeting something you felt was easy to target. You have not truly looked at my "thought flow". You had not even let me posts enough to know if you could understand my thought process. You just went for it immediately without any sort of analysis. In reality, changing the color of my posts does not affect anything about what I'm saying haha.
Strawman. I did not target your posting style at all, and I've been looking at your overall play. Your reply to my prodding just proved scummy and made me giddy. That's also...

-You're already pretty jumpy. Your question to Circus about why he is voting adum had no real thought behind it just like you asking me to stop my posting style has no real thought behind it. You quickly felt the need to state that it was a real question right after you asked him because you realized your mistake and that fake that there was no thought behind the question.
Reason why you call me jumpy. You assume I have no other information about you. My question to Circus I also have explained. It was objectively better to be on Acrostic, and it also looked more profitable if I were to replace myself in Circus.
"

Then there's here, where you repeat your initial scumtell

"Welp X1 is confirmed town. Not even indy. Definitely should keep that to myself though. "

Except on X1 and not Adumb.


Then there's this juicy wordslip

"@X1: I dig you, but man Xonar is more of a threat. I'd rather go him first."

Oh yes Ramen. You're scummy and you have to go. Why wasn't I on you before? Clearly I wanted town to focus. If we were to pressure Acrostic and he proved scummy, then I had a lot of ammo to shape D2 to my liking after an Acro lynch. If we were to pressure Acrostic and he proved towny, town was more organized and easier to shape to follow these arguments on you.
I also wanted to hear more out of you, obviously.

Acrostic pressure simply had no negative for a lot of players, including me.

So, to sum up the case:

• Your openness is faked, and detrimental if you are town
• Your initial thought process is off
• Your early pressure is not true pressure, as you give your target an out
• Your early pressure also misses the mark, incriminating Acrostic for the wrong reasons
• You break town's focus without proper reason
• The bulk of your replies to me are strawmans and twisting
• You dun slippin'

Vote: Ramen King

That's it.
Circus, remember this?

I'm gonna go ahead and assume the language of this question ("avoiding an RVS vote?" Heh.) is the result of newborn paranoia of me due to EBR Mafia. I'm hoping you squash that soon.

You give him an easy out on it, but looking at it in my light, it does look scummy. Rock the vote.

Why tell him?

We could have used it to see if he would give us some relationship tells on his mafia partners.

Do you still stand by this objection? Getting on Zen would be swell.


Zen, you're the scummy one here.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oyasumi, aniki.

 

[Dooms]

Oh my god Xonar I have to read that whole thing? QQQQQ

Starting any reading now, since I'm stuck in conquest .

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Looking for another replacement. This time it's Gorf who can't play.

 

[X1-12]

you haven't given a satisfactory answer. Explain to me how you get good reads

@Badwolf: This is the third time I've asked you. Answer the question

As of right now you both are null-scum. I've re-read the thread and right now both of you are being really aggressive towards each other. Right now I believe that scum lies within one of you.

@Both of the bolded sections, why? Repeating what you say in the yellow isn't an acceptable answer.

 

[X1-12]

If you mean target as in honed in on it as a topic, then you're undermining your own argument. Go back and see how much time I've spent commenting on your playstyle.
I noted it once in a general post.
I've called you out directly on it.

@Bold: Thats not at all what targeting means and you know it isn't, so why did you write the underlined?

Note how he says I'm more of a threat, instead of focusing on scumminess which a town would do.

the bolded isn't true and you know it. He thinks both of you are scummy and he thinks we should pursue you because you're more of a threat as scum.


I disagree with almost everything else in your case but the above are the only ones I felt were straight up misleading enough to bring up

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I was quoting him with the "target as in honed in on it". Good to see you're admitting to not liking that from Zen, then!

And the bolded isn't true? Sure, I can see where you're coming from. I still think it's weird for him to go on me for being more threatening. When two reads are equally scummy, sure. However, I doubt it.

That's one thing I forgot to mention.

"The heck man. I feel like you're not even trying . I suspect it's because you're tired of getting scum."

Reasons like this are bull and ****.
I really doubt he is more suspicious of Badwolf than me, and his reasons for finding him scum seem forced from time to time. Zen, being a meta player, should know not to expect too much from Badwolf. Some of the pressure is legit, other points are ********.

If he really is more suspicious of me than Badwolf, then he should've said so. Instead, he's saying that he's on me for being more threatening.

Are you on the strongest player at the start of the day simply (aka, equal reads) because he is the most threatening? No.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I really doubt he is equally suspicious of Badwolf and me*

yeah that made no sense there.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Are you on the strongest player at the start of the day simply (aka, equal reads) because he is the most threatening? No.

Also, I 100% expect people to ***** about it.

Even when you don't agree with the comparison, going for the most threatening instead of the most scummy out of your two scumreads is bull****. Simple as that.

 

[X1-12]

You are listed as a higher scumread than BW though...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

That's the initial point I'm making!

Why say he's on me because I'm more threatening when it is for the scumminess? That shows the scum mindset!

Geez!

 

[X1-12]

@Zen, July, Circus, Acrostic: If you could please join me and all vote badwolf for me in your next post that'd be awesome. Us 5 will be L-1.

July I see you watching, can we get on this now please.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

@Badwolf: This is the third time I've asked you. Answer the question

Do you actually read or go "Herp derp! Let's ask this again!" ? I've answered this like 3 or 4 times. I answered this in my #136, #156, and my #74. And that was just skimming from memory. Get with it man.

 

[X1-12]

@Xonie: I'm still not sold, and if that's the point your making I don't see why you posted #170? You're wilfully arguing something which isn't related to the point you're making?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

July I see you watching, can we get on this now please.

By the way, while I'm here can you give me a reason why you're voting for me? Just wondering really.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

@Xonie: I'm still not sold, and if that's the point your making I don't see why you posted #170? You're wilfully arguing something which isn't related to the point you're making?

I'm arguing this with you so that Zen or anyone else can't twist it. Explain it to multiple viewpoints.

I think I've covered every way to look at it right now, and every way is scummy.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Explaining*

Yeah, I'm gonna stop posting now. Will finish up this conversation with you if you need to, though, X1.

 

[X1-12]

By the way, while I'm here can you give me a reason why you're voting for me? Just wondering really.

I'm not going to.

 

[X1-12]

Do you actually read or go "Herp derp! Let's ask this again!" ? I've answered this like 3 or 4 times. I answered this in my #136, #156, and my #74. And that was just skimming from memory. Get with it man.

I don't see an answer beyond "I don't sheep people, I follow my own mind" which is not an answer.

Please get to my other question, particularly why you find Xonar vs Zen to be TvS (i.e only one of them is scum)

 

[July]

"I propose a town alliance between myself, X1, Circus, and July. All three of you seem to generally be on the same page. By the way, my proposal is just a courtesy, you don't really have a choice.

That's fine with me, so far I have no problems with any of those players.

July, you know just as well as me that that response is null. The fact that I answer twice is because I was asked twice.

I never said it was my reason for voting you or that it gave me a strong read, but it was the first thing that made me look at you because your response and the way you handled it seemed awkward and uncomfortable as you didn't partake in the joke but rather immediately dismissed it to assert your towniness. Something worth noting, even in RVS.

Why does the accusation of Zen being antagonistic feel forced? I think my thought process is laid out crystal clear.

Because Zen wasn't being antagonistic? Just because you requested that he change his playstyle and he didn't, that doesn't make him antagonistic. His reply was perfectly reasonable; he has no responsibility to change his posting style just because you requested he do so, especially if he sees benefits to the posting style for scumhunting.

You have to realize that 109 was ninja'd by 108, in which he gives his explanation, which invalidates the point of me being reachy and overdefensive (he truly did not have a scum-tell from his PoV laid out at that point). You also feel the need to mention how Zen remains calm and looks at my intent, but do I not do that?

#108 doesn't contain his reasoning, it's actually #113 where he lays out his reasoning. But you still only had one vote on you and it was after your posts strictly telling Zen to stop posting in such a way, and I feel like that in itself was strange enough to warrant a vote in that you were trying to stifle someone's playstyle and then used his response to your strange request as a reason to cast suspicion on him.

As for where he was calm and looking at intent while you weren't, in his #103 he talks about what your intent was in making your demand he stop his posting style and in asking Circus the question about Adumb. You, on the other hand, don't consider his intent behind his playstyle and just write it off as annoying and call him antagonistic.

This is just weird. Show me how the second point holds true with quotes, please?

Challenge accepted. First we go back to this quote:

Sorry Adumb, I'm afraid I misread my PM. Looks like I'm town.

As for Circus, as you can see, I am town. No nightkill to think of.

Zen, please drop that writing style. It makes it more annoying to read you.


Honestly, early on, weak tells are the best you have. Why oppose it?


Elaborate, please.

Vote: Ramen King

Also, Circus, you underestimate Acrostic. Believe me.

Additionally, I need to run some numbers, then reread. Gimme some time.

Actually, I wanted to bring this up again anyways. Like I said, the repeating of you being town feels jumpy and awkward, even if you were asked about it twice, you were asked as parts of jokes that you decided to definitively not play along with about you being scum.

But I was actually wondering about the bolded part, what did you mean there/what numbers were you running?

Then posts like this:

I'm asking you a question, Acrostic.

No, wait. You did adress it, just without quote.

You were just jumping on Acrostic for not answering your question before you really even read what he said. It seems like you were just jumpy and eager to get on Acrostic for something.

And then in the interactions with Zen, which I've already mentioned, you just get on him so quick for being antagonistic and not having any scumtells on you but its all looking at surface level stuff, it's all sudden and trying to quickly get attention on someone else and off of you.

1.) I ask it because you haven't given a satisfactory answer. Explain to me how you get good reads



@Zen, July, Circus, Acrostic: If you could please join me and all vote badwolf for me in your next post that'd be awesome. Us 5 will be L-1.

But Xonar is so much scummier X1 ;-; Why Badwolf over Xonar?



@Badwolf: Which one do you find scummier atm, Xonar or Zen/Ramen King? Also what are your thoughts on X1?

I want to wait until Zen comments on Xonar's case to fully address it, except for one thing, and that is I really don't agree with the accusation that Zen's openness is fake and/or detrimental to town. You didn't say anything when I gave town reads or Badwolf called you "towny for life", and him (and others) giving town reads isn't the end of the world or unconditionally detrimental to town.

 

[July]

Do you actually read or go "Herp derp! Let's ask this again!" ? I've answered this like 3 or 4 times. I answered this in my #136, #156, and my #74. And that was just skimming from memory. Get with it man.

I agree with X1 that these didn't give me any clue as to how you read people, especially #136 where you say "1.) Why ask this again? Xonar spelled it out fine enough for me to read." And you say that you don't like conflict/massive shoves on players. So far you've told us how you don't get reads, but not how you do...

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I'm not going to.

Ok.

I don't see an answer beyond "I don't sheep people, I follow my own mind" which is not an answer.

Please get to my other question, particularly why you find Xonar vs Zen to be TvS (i.e only one of them is scum)

I said I get reads better when people are just posting not yelling at each other. I've said this before but whatever. Yeah I don't like to put pressure on people all that much, it makes them react differently than if they were under different circumstances.

@Badwolf:
@Both of the bolded sections, why? Repeating what you say in the yellow isn't an acceptable answer.

1.) Saying that they were both null-scum doesn't say that I think scum lies between them. It just says that I feel as if they could be scum.

2.) I had thought I had already answered this but whatever, again I feel as if one of them is scum because of the posts within the big long speal between them. There were a lot of angry posts and a lot of slips. I have already posted about this before.

 

[X1-12]

I said I get reads better when people are just posting not yelling at each other. I've said this before but whatever. Yeah I don't like to put pressure on people all that much, it makes them react differently than if they were under different circumstances.

Yes, several times you've explained how you don't get reads, how do about you DO get reads?

1.) Saying that they were both null-scum doesn't say that I think scum lies between them. It just says that I feel as if they could be scum.

Actually you explicitly state that you think only one of them is scum here:

Bolded: I find scum is flipping between one of you two. He has posts that I don't like then you post something that I don't like.

So explain why?

 

[X1-12]

But Xonar is so much scummier X1 ;-; Why Badwolf over Xonar?

Because I feel 5 votes on badwolf right now would be a good position to be in, ya dig? I'm also not particularly convinced on Xonar scum

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Yes, several times you've explained how you don't get reads, how do about you DO get reads?

Actually you explicitly state that you think only one of them is scum here:
So explain why?

........
1.)

I said I get reads better when people are just posting not yelling at each other. I've said this before but whatever. Yeah I don't like to put pressure on people all that much, it makes them react differently than if they were under different circumstances.

@Bold: People respond better and easier to gentle nudging, not the massive shove that might push them into aggressive posts. It's easier to get them to accidentally slip up.

2.)

As of right now you both are null-scum. I've re-read the thread and right now both of you are being really aggressive towards each other. Right now I believe that scum lies within one of you..

I find scum is flipping between one of you two. He has posts that I don't like then you post something that I don't like. Such as:

Why did he ask Circus such a question, when clearly Circus has been looking at both adum and acrostic.
I didn't like this, he makes it sound as if you can't question someone who's looking at other people.

The question I'm truly asking is; why are you being an antagonist?
I also didn't like this by you. You're asking questions that just have no purpose at all. It reeks of scummy to me because I feel as if you're just trying to waste time.

You target my posting style without even considering how it is troublesome.

Then he jumps on your post like a raving lion. Right now this whole back and fourth thing is getting me nowhere other than kinda annoyed.

Like I said I've answered this. Please read harder.

 

[X1-12]

"I get reads when people are posting and not yelling"
"people respond better to nudging than massive shoves"

Neither of these explain HOW you get your reads.

 

[X1-12]

You explicitly stated that one of them of the two was scum, I see you have your reasons for why you don't like Ramen and why you don't like Xonar, but why is it only one of them that you say is scum

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

You explicitly stated that one of them of the two was scum, I see you have your reasons for why you don't like Ramen and why you don't like Xonar, but why is it only one of them that you say is scum

It's possible that both of them are but why would they turn against each other this quickly? It would be buddy lynching buddy.

 

[X1-12]

Oh my god Xonar I have to read that whole thing? QQQQQ

Starting any reading now, since I'm stuck in conquest .

what up with this hmm? Where you at

 

[Dooms]

I... I...

I played more pokemon conquest ;_;.

(I'm so bad at playing catch up lol)

 

[Ramen King]

"Can we just ql xonar.

Marshy replace gorf yo"

 

[Dooms]

Page 2- Acrostic is very odd. I don’t like the way that he’s playing so far and it’s really weird that he asked questions like “Why did you tell him that” when the response Acrostic gives kinda goes with Zen’s response moreso than his own. Makes me feel that he’s just trying to put himself out there as town.

Okay, so I’m assuming this #74 is the post that was causing so much trouble with BadWolf early game. Uh… I don’t really see what’s so bad about it… I figured that he just didn’t like agreements when reading that. Moving on…

Page 3- Xonar’s Zen vote in #85 seems pretty odd. May be why he gets voted later. I can also see why July picked out the “I am town… No nightkill to think of” thing. It’s very oddly added into the post, shutting down Circus’ question in a weird way. Not sure how I feel about that. If his play shows more stuff like this, I’ll probably vote him.

In case someone wants to ask me about Circus v Adumb: Null. Arguing about RVS (something I don’t like or participate in besides 2-3 posts on average) is something I can’t get information from at all. Very opinionated and it’s more right or wrong than town or scum.

I don’t agree with Zen in Zen v Xonar, but Zen’s 113 really stands out. Repeatedly questioning Zen and calling him terms like “Antagonist” over it seems like Xonar is just trying to paint him as scum instead of searching for scum.

X1 so far is odd. Not scummy really… but definitely odd. Just calls Adumb’s reads bogus right out of the blue lol.

Page 4- But then X1 gave reasoning and it made him look way better and townie I like X1 this game :3.

“I’ve been trying to get this town focused” in Xonar’s 131 is very odd. I don’t see how the town at all, and this statement makes me feel like he’s trying to gain credibility of the town’s motives and actions. Saying that he’s the big townie that leads all the others. I don’t like it.

Circus v Xonar gives me a Circus town read. I like the fact that Circus is shutting down any tunneling on Acrostic early in the game so that the town can get information on every player before tons of information on a specific one, but at the same time, it’ll make me go to Circus if Acrostic flips scum.

I don’t like Badwolf’s catch up wall. It’s shutting down Acrostic when he’s just responding to the pressure that has been put onto him, and it’s calling him scummy for, once again, doing what he should do as a mafia player: responding to the pressure that has been put onto him.

July’s posts, on the other hand, makes me believe she is town. Not sure if it’s because of the fact that she’s questioning all of the right things, catching a bunch of stuff that scum wouldn’t need to search for when incriminating someone in my opinion, or is just generally townie. Maybe all 3. I really like her play so far lol.

I feel like Xonar’s responses to July in 140 are very reaching, asking for July to understand his thoughts. It seems like he’s trying to make July re-read in hopes that him calling Zen an antagonist would shake her a little bit. This in general makes me think that he’s trying to get July to follow him. Not sure if that’s scummy, but something to note in case it becomes important later.

Xonar, why are you trying to read acrostic so hard? It seems like you’re putting him as a top priority and putting everyone else to the side a little bit.

Xonar and Zen back and forth is becoming harder to grasp. Don’t have a side I’m on at this point, although I don’t see how Zen is twisting what Xonar said, but maybe that’s just because I came to the same conclusion on read-through. I like Xonar’s explanation on his thoughts, though.

I can understand Zen’s Badwolf scum thought. Not sure if I agree with the idea just yet, though.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I... I can't read anymore lol. I spent an hour and a half reading this **** trying to understand it and it's late enough to the point where it takes me 5 minutes to respond to one thing.

I'll probably elaborate and add more tomorrow, but thoughts are out there now! : D.

 

[Ramen King]

"Just vote Xonar "

 

[Dooms]

I'm not in support of any quick lynch when we're having to replace players and there are still people that haven't posted.

Not putting any vote out until my mind is clear and it's not 1:32 AM lol.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm going to be V/LA from the 21st which is a week from now to the 25th due to a family vacation in the Bahamas or something like that. I also won't be able to likely to post on Wednesdays/Thursdays due to my work schedule, but will try to put in the time. If either of these are a problem then I'm ok with being subbed out.

V/LA. Am not planning to look at this game until I'm back, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nabe will replace SangfroidWarrior. I'm going to check if Gorf's internet situation can be fixed before I replace him. Deadline is temporarly removed for that time.

Voted |

Voter(s)​

|

Votes to lynch​

Ramen King |

Xonar​

|

1 / 6​

Acrostic |

adumbrodeus​

|

1 / 6​

Xonar |

Ramen King, July​

|

2 / 6​

adumbrodeus |

Circus​

|

1 / 6​

---​

Not voting: X1-12, Gorf, Acrostic, Nabe, -Masquerain-, Badwolf;

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I never said it was my reason for voting you or that it gave me a strong read, but it was the first thing that made me look at you because your response and the way you handled it seemed awkward and uncomfortable as you didn't partake in the joke but rather immediately dismissed it to assert your towniness. Something worth noting, even in RVS.

Alright. Fair point. PoV and stuff.

Because Zen wasn't being antagonistic? Just because you requested that he change his playstyle and he didn't, that doesn't make him antagonistic. His reply was perfectly reasonable; he has no responsibility to change his posting style just because you requested he do so, especially if he sees benefits to the posting style for scumhunting.

We can play the semantics argument here, but in the end his respond was off. He might not have a responsibility to change it, but ignoring and then jumping on me is not a towny response.

#108 doesn't contain his reasoning, it's actually #113 where he lays out his reasoning.

Then you're undermining your own argument.
This is what you said:

as well as the accusation that Zen is voting Xonar because he's missing information and can't discern his motive. It's reachy and seems overly defensive in the bolded part

While, at the time of that post, it was not weird to say that he had no argument yet because he didn't have it laid out yet. At that time, looking at his jump on me, the only reason he hinted to was my response to his response, which shows that he is missing information and can't discern my motive. The reachy and overly defensive bold part is explained because he did have no reason.

then used his response to your strange request as a reason to cast suspicion on him.

Except I didn't. I didn't cast suspicion on Zen for that at that time.

As for where he was calm and looking at intent while you weren't, in his #103 he talks about what your intent was in making your demand he stop his posting style and in asking Circus the question about Adumb. You, on the other hand, don't consider his intent behind his playstyle and just write it off as annoying and call him antagonistic.

Well, this is explained above in the case. Point was legit for the time, though.

Actually, I wanted to bring this up again anyways. Like I said, the repeating of you being town feels jumpy and awkward, even if you were asked about it twice, you were asked as parts of jokes that you decided to definitively not play along with about you being scum.

Why come back to this again? I can see how you see it as jumpy and awkward, but my riddance was "why lie?". It's a matter of perception, and you took your PoV to it, which isn't bad, but it's not solid enough to bring it up, though I'm not surprised it made you pause.

But I was actually wondering about the bolded part, what did you mean there/what numbers were you running?

Alright, I don't see how this fits in with jumpy, but the question stands.

I was trying to do something with the food et cetera, but soon realized that it's useless with this many unknown variables to it. I did draw some other conclusions though, but they're irrelevant for now.

You were just jumping on Acrostic for not answering your question before you really even read what he said. It seems like you were just jumpy and eager to get on Acrostic for something.

This... is an embarassing topic. Acrostic's use of language and my language barrier makes it harder for me to read his posts. I had to read that post again and then noticed that he did answer it, which I didn't see as answer to me until a reread of the post. (no quotes didn't help either)

And then in the interactions with Zen, which I've already mentioned, you just get on him so quick for being antagonistic and not having any scumtells on you but its all looking at surface level stuff, it's all sudden and trying to quickly get attention on someone else and off of you.

But I never called Zen scum. I don't see how I was "getting attention on someone else and off of me". I also don't see how saying he had no scumtells was bad, when at the time of the post, he did not lay anything out. He simply jumped on me for my reaction.

I want to wait until Zen comments on Xonar's case to fully address it, except for one thing, and that is I really don't agree with the accusation that Zen's openness is fake and/or detrimental to town. You didn't say anything when I gave town reads or Badwolf called you "towny for life", and him (and others) giving town reads isn't the end of the world or unconditionally detrimental to town.

The underlined says it, keyword "unconditionally". The way Zen does it is detrimental, as I have laid out.



July I have a feeling like you're looking at my slot under the preconception that I'm scummy, and not objectively. Read my posts again, write out my thought process for yourself, and tell me, where does my thought process fail to make sense?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Can we just ql xonar.

Marshy replace gorf yo"

Really? You're pulling this? Get out. You came at me, now I'm coming at you. Reply to it. I've purposefully waited until your arguments against me were exhausted, simply so I could see this happen.

And it's not gonna happen. Reply to my case.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Xonar, why are you trying to read acrostic so hard? It seems like you’re putting him as a top priority and putting everyone else to the side a little bit.

I always get on Acrostic hard. He's a hard to read slot to me and always has been. He himself can vouch for this.

 

[Ramen King]

"Xonar there is no way I'm even taking the time to read that. I read like the first two quote responses. It's all bs. I've made my case, you've made your defense. Now we get the views of others and hopefully ultimately you will be lynched."

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If you really are town, then let me get a better read on you. Instead of clarifying, you're dodging pressure, effectively making yourself harder to read for everyone. **** off.