G3S #2 - The great famine | Indy wins!

[Ramen King]

"Self vote for the day and I'll do anything you like."

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You and me both know that I won't do that.

You're avoiding the issue.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

If you really are town, then let me get a better read on you. Instead of clarifying, you're dodging pressure, effectively making yourself harder to read for everyone. **** off.

Aggression level 100.... Geez man...

 

[Circus]

I'm really, really, definitely going to get around to reading this tonight. For now, prod dodging.

Nabe, it's nice to see you. Please be town. I don't think we've actually both been town together since Royal Sleepover. You've always found a way to break my heart by being maf or indy. Don't do it, man, don't do it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

All right. An all inclusive guide to why your responses to me have been lacking, Zen.

[collapse=Initial post]

"Tell me where you find harm n_n. I'd love to hear. Simply posting my thoughts in yellow with quotation marks changes nothing about the content within them. For you to try and latch onto such minute things is silly, weak, and scummy."

This is your first point. You imply I'm latching on to it, this is not the case. These are all remarks I've made towards it:
[collapse=My remarks]

Zen, please drop that writing style. It makes it more annoying to read you.

Zen, I asked you to drop it.

Drop it.

[/collapse]

So, that entire accusation is already nullified.
I never latched onto such minute things. I have a bigger scope.[/collapse]
However, look at this.
[collapse=NextPost]

What kind of question?

"Holy scum. As much as I want to lynch Acrostic right now... Xonar just wow.

Vote: Xonar "

This is where Zen votes me. This is the reasoning provided:

How strange of him. It may be more difficult for me to put him aside than I had wanted. What reason could he have for demanding such a thing? To look as if he is guiltless and a figure of authority? His #98 was quite strange as well. Why did he ask Circus such a question, when clearly Circus has been looking at both adum and acrostic. Very, very strange. I must doubt that my friend is an ally this game.

"Xonar, it seems that tell you told me about is true. n_n."

Which I'll split up right here:

What reason could he have for demanding such a thing? To look as if he is guiltless and a figure of authority?

Which I have explained. I was simply feeling you out. This is evidenced by my later question.

His #98 was quite strange as well. Why did he ask Circus such a question, when clearly Circus has been looking at both adum and acrostic.

Which I have explained also. I thought Circus was more careful when considering his vote, and at that time, an Acrostic vote would leave us better off. Then after talking to him, I tell him that I think that an Acrotic vote is better.
[/collapse]
So, on to the juiciest post til then
[collapse=TheBiggerPost]

"I told you I would be posting in such a way before the game even started n_n. It has helped me to catch scum off guard before, and I feel it is doing the same right now.

What is scummy about you:

-You target my posting style without even considering how it is troublesome. You have yet to state how it is so. This leads me to believe that you were just targeting something you felt was easy to target. You have not truly looked at my "thought flow". You had not even let me posts enough to know if you could understand my thought process. You just went for it immediately without any sort of analysis. In reality, changing the color of my posts does not affect anything about what I'm saying haha.

-You're already pretty jumpy. Your question to Circus about why he is voting adum had no real thought behind it just like you asking me to stop my posting style has no real thought behind it. You quickly felt the need to state that it was a real question right after you asked him because you realized your mistake and that fake that there was no thought behind the question.

You're scum man.
"

Splitting.
[collapse=Part1]

-You target my posting style without even considering how it is troublesome. You have yet to state how it is so. This leads me to believe that you were just targeting something you felt was easy to target. You have not truly looked at my "thought flow". You had not even let me posts enough to know if you could understand my thought process. You just went for it immediately without any sort of analysis. In reality, changing the color of my posts does not affect anything about what I'm saying haha.

This is actually multiple points, so let's split them up.

You target my posting style without even considering how it is troublesome

This is has been explained later. It was a fair point at the time, though.

This leads me to believe that you were just targeting something you felt was easy to target.

This, however, is bull to the ****. The use of the word "targeting" is most essential. Now, Zen has already given me two definitions of it to work with, and let me line up how that went:
"You targeted me for my posting style!"
"I never incriminated you for it."
"I mean targeting as a topic!"
"No, I never did. I threw 2 remarks on it."

So yeah, writing this off as scummy is flat-out wrong and contradictory to the facts.

You have not truly looked at my "thought flow".

This is an assumption without much base. Reachy, if you will.

You had not even let me posts enough to know if you could understand my thought process.

Once again, assumption. Also a weird one, because he assumes I don't know his thought process, yet he claims to understand mine.
[/collapse]

[collapse=Part2]

You're already pretty jumpy. Your question to Circus about why he is voting adum had no real thought behind it just like you asking me to stop my posting style has no real thought behind it. You quickly felt the need to state that it was a real question right after you asked him because you realized your mistake and that fake that there was no thought behind the question.

Once again, multiple accusations.

Your question to Circus about why he is voting adum had no real thought behind it

No, it did have thought behind it, and I did explain it. Flat out wrong, and a baseless assumption. Reaching.

just like you asking me to stop my posting style has no real thought behind it.

Once again, I have explained this.

You quickly felt the need to state that it was a real question right after you asked him because you realized your mistake and that fake that there was no thought behind the question.

Not really, I have explained this too. I didn't want him to confuse it for me asking him to vote Acrostic, I threw that sentence in to show that my true intention was to learn why he was voting Adumb (and not Acrostic).
[/collapse][/collapse]

To page 4.
[collapse=147]

""yes lol. As I pointed out to Badwolf in #138. "

You pointed out these posts as me targeting you;

Spoiler

Sorry Adumb, I'm afraid I misread my PM. Looks like I'm town.

As for Circus, as you can see, I am town. No nightkill to think of.

Zen, please drop that writing style. It makes it more annoying to read you.


Honestly, early on, weak tells are the best you have. Why oppose it?


Elaborate, please.

Vote: Ramen King

Also, Circus, you underestimate Acrostic. Believe me.

Additionally, I need to run some numbers, then reread. Gimme some time.

Zen, I asked you to drop it.

Drop it.

The question I'm truly asking is; why are you being an antagonist?

The first which isn't targeting it solely, isn't incriminating you for it and doesn't make it a subject whatsoever. It can count as targeting, but only in the most faintest meaning of the word. It's a simple remark, not targeting.
The second post was targeting the playstyle, but not incriminating.
The third post was not targeting your playstyle, neither incriminating you for it. It was concerning your reply.

"You're the one that stated that you cannot understand my thought process haha."

Which you admitted to being a false argument.

"Your followup seems to disagree n_n: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14594823&postcount=129

Wrong. You are implying that I was planning on replying to him by asking him to vote Acrostic. The question alone is crystal clear and hides no intentions, it was simply a question asking why he was voting Adumb. The fact that I ask him to vote Acrostic is after considering his answer and laying it next to the information at hand.

You have yet to state what is was that you were looking for with the question. The answer is nothing. You didn't think before you asked the question. You just asked and realized that it was a bogus question. Prove me wrong and state what you were looking for n_n.[/COLOR]

I have already stated what I was looking for: elaboration on why he was on Adumbrodeus. What spurred the question is my confusion over why he wasn't voting Acrostic.[/collapse]

[collapse=but now you're my ex post 'cause I'm on to the next post]
Split 1:
[collapse=Part1]

"Firstly you're mistaking the word 'target'. I never said 'incriminate' although I do believe you were trying to lead up to that. Target as in you honed in on it as a topic. Now as to why I feel you you were trying to lead up to incriminating me was, for one, the fact that you called me out on being "antagonizing" as if you were trying to imply that my posting style had something to do with my alignment. Second of all, it was such an immediate call-out. Like I have been saying, you weren't putting any thought into it, you just targeted it to target it.

Splitting this post into two:

Firstly you're mistaking the word 'target'. I never said 'incriminate' although I do believe you were trying to lead up to that. Target as in you honed in on it as a topic.

Which is already disproven, as said before. I have thrown one remark at it in a larger post, one small post dedicated to it and afterwards nothing. I haven't "honed" in to it as a topic. It was neither incriminating nor honing in on it.

Now as to why I feel you you were trying to lead up to incriminating me was, for one, the fact that you called me out on being "antagonizing" as if you were trying to imply that my posting style had something to do with my alignment.

This is pure twisting. You are saying that I called your posting style antagonistic, which I simply wasn't. I have proven this multiple times in this post alone.

Second of all, it was such an immediate call-out. Like I have been saying, you weren't putting any thought into it, you just targeted it to target it.

This has a reason, and that reason is that I've been holding my eyes on you. How was it "such an immediate call-out" though? I asked you first, you flat-out ignored me, and I called you on it. Don't see the problem in that interaction, this point is bull to the ****.

[/collapse]
[collapse=Part2]

This is such BS. As I have said he was clearly looking at both of them during that time. He had just made a response to adum and had shown that he was trying to get him to talk. For you to ask this so early in the game in order "to understand why he was hurpdurp voting him" is bs and you know it. Furthermore, your quote that you quoted below this once again shows contradiction your statement about not wanting him to switch to Acro. There was no initial and secondary thought. It's all the same thing. It's so clear that you simply slipped up haha.
See, this part is just all kinds of wrong.
Beginning at the beginning, the fact that he's looking at both doesn't mean his votes should be thrown around without looking at what is the most profitable course of action.
Then, you imply that me asking him why he's voting is bs "and I know it". Well dear Zen, I don't know it. My reasoning is perfectly legit. The fact that you didn't see it (coming) doesn't mean it's not legitimate, because that's what I think makes you say this. This is word vs word, and your situation is no more likely than mine. Pushing this as a point is weak.
Then, you imply there was no initial and secondary thought, which is bull because those are directly copied from my notes.

You also never elaborated on the underlined. It's a baseless accusation based on nothing.
[/collapse][/collapse]

That's everything you told me.

I took an hour to DEMOLISH all ground you have below your feet.
You now have no logically sound reason anymore to vote me, and I've shown how all your replies have been inadequate.

My thought process w.r.t you is out there on the table. There's no flaw, and nothing scummy whatsoever.

I really hate to take this time for your silly antics but goddamn.

I also commend you if you've read through all of that. That's a hard task man.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

God I was destined to screw something up in there.

Everything yellow in the last quote is Zen.

It's also less long than I expected. So there. Now vote Zen.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Badwolf is noobtown.

Haven't been able to review xonar's case yet but his interaction makes perfect sense given given a scumread on ramen king that he was prodding for confirmation on.


More when I've caught up.

Right I'm just gonna ignore every post you make about rvs for the next forever

And this is why marshy doesn't tell people the reasoning behind his reads.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: Zen 'cause he's doing his stupid quote thing, reading tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm really, really, definitely going to get around to reading this tonight. For now, prod dodging.

We'll be the best hydra ever.

Nabe, it's nice to see you. Please be town. I don't think we've actually both been town together since Royal Sleepover. You've always found a way to break my heart by being maf or indy. Don't do it, man, don't do it.

 

[Ramen King]

"lol why did you just make another post after I just told you I wasn't even reading the other one."

 

[Ramen King]

"Adum you need to get some current meta on Xonar. You underestimate him like it's still two years ago. At least scum through Fire and Lightning jeebus."

 

[adumbrodeus]

I never actually played him, he replaced out or suicided with like 3 posts all 3? times I played him.

This is all very general, though I should add his recent games to my reading list.

 

[Ramen King]

"Yeah I know what you mean. I was a bit surprised to find how much he had changed when I came back to dgames. But trust me he is one of the best players here, both as town and scum. You can't take any 'town tells' he puts out there as legitimate."

 

[Ramen King]

"Xonar I went ahead and read them except for your case bit since you put the effort into it. All I want to know is what was your 'hush hush' reason for demanding me to not use my posting style and what did you mean by you found my thought process annoying?"

 

[X1-12]

Aggression level 100.... Geez man...

Seriously do something useful


@Adum: Do you agree or disagree that Xonar is overstating how good his case is VS zen?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Seriously do something useful


@Adum: Do you agree or disagree that Xonar is overstating how good his case is VS zen?

How is it that every single time you post you make me want to mash my head on my desk from your pure stupidity?

Just wondering.

 

[Circus]

Okay. Reading this now since I got sort of carried away with other things last night. Though my reading may (will) be interrupted by other threads and television and such.

 

[Circus]

Badwolf is noobtown.

What's your reasoning?

People respond better and easier to gentle nudging, not the massive shove that might push them into aggressive posts. It's easier to get them to accidentally slip up.

How can you be so certain about this if you've never been town before?

Also, you're wrong, but that's not relevant to my current beef with you.

1.) Why ask this again? Xonar spelled it out fine enough for me to read.

I'm a little confused by this quote, but the way I'm reading it suggests to me that Xonar answered X1's question for you and you're basically just saying "yeah, what he said" instead of answering for yourself. I feel like it's kind of unlikely that's what you mean, but it's the only way the words make sense to me. If I am correct, then please explain to me how it is that Xonar can speak for you.

2.) Disagreement doesn't allow for lynching scum. It actually puts us at each other's throats fairly easily.

That's only if it's a townie against another townie. And we don't know we're arguing with another townie until we start arguing with them. That's how we, like, you know...get reads. The only players who know that a disagreement between two people is bad for town are scum, because they're the only ones who know who the townies are ahead of time.

For asking a decent question?

Yes. A question so decent that you still haven't answered for it. I'll repeat it once again so you know what I'm talking about: How is that you have any idea what works for you in terms of getting reads if you've never been town before?

I realize that X1 probably sounds like a broken record to you at this point, and me joining in probably does nothing but put it on stereo, but a proper answer to this is important. Even though you've "answered" the question a few times now, we still don't understand you any better.

There are actually two issues here: your inability to explain your views in any moderately deep way, and the fact that some of what you already claim to know is impossible to know given the experience you have.

The former:
"I like ducks."
"Why do you like ducks?"
"Because I think ducks are neat."
"What makes you think ducks are neat?"
"When I see ducks, I feel happy."

The latter:
"I like ducks better than geese."
"How can you like ducks better than geese if you've never been outside?"
"Ducks are better at flying than geese."
"How? Better at flying in what way? How can you accurately judge this if you've never even seen either one in real life? Why is flight the most important thing to you in your preference of birds?"
"I told you, I think ducks fly better and I like them more."

You see the problem here?


Let me try to break this down further:

I said I get reads better when people are just posting not yelling at each other. I've said this before but whatever. Yeah I don't like to put pressure on people all that much, it makes them react differently than if they were under different circumstances.

The bolded is a giant issue for me. You've NEVER HAD TO GET READS BEFORE, because you've never been town before. So how do you know that you "get reads better when people are...not yelling at each other?" Do you understand that you can't hold this opinion if this game is your first experience in actually trying to attain reads? You're just stating an assumption as fact even though you have no actual experience to base it on.

It's like buying a BMW for your sixteen-year-old son and having him say "thanks, but I wanted a Lexus." He's never driven either type of car before. This is his first car. You ask him how he arrived at his opinion, muffling your urge to punch him in his spoiled little face for not being grateful for a free BMW, and he answers "because it handles better." Again, HE HAS NEVER DRIVEN A LEXUS. OR A BMW. His opinion is based on nothing, but he still "knows" that he would have preferred the Lexus to the BMW he got. He speaks as if he has first-hand knowledge of the subject that he objectively cannot have. That is the conundrum you have presented here.

More from the same post as above:

I had thought I had already answered this but whatever, again I feel as if one of them is scum because of the posts within the big long speal between them. There were a lot of angry posts and a lot of slips. I have already posted about this before.

"My opinion is what it is because I read the posts and that is what my opinion is. Also there were slips by people in places about things."

We know your opinion is the result of reading the posts in this thread. The question is what about the posts, specifically, brings you to those opinions? Show the slips you just mentioned. Explain why you think angry posts apparently mean that a person is scum. Show your work. If you don't, then we are forced to think that you don't actually have anything to support your assertions, meaning you're not actually scumhunting. You're just saying things. You're a wolf in sheep's clothing, trying to do what you think sheep do (no pun intended, but damn that's appropriate).

 

[Circus]

Xonar, your response to Zen is overworked and tortured. If you want me to think that your initial response to him is not jumpy scum, then I'm forced to believe that you just really don't know how unreasonable you're being.

You lay out plausible reasons for why you may have first started looking sideways at Zen, and for why you asked him the questions leading up to your cry of antagonism in the sense that the internal monologue you apparently had going during the questioning matches said line of questioning. But that doesn't change the fact that your claimed internal thought process was...crazy. "I asked him to stop and he didn't. Town would have just stopped because there's no benefit to continuing. He specifically chose not to stop in order to offend me. That means he's scum."

What? That's not even turning a molehill into a mountain. That's turning a squirrel into a talking Zebra. Totally random and irrational.

That's in addition to this little nugget you keep coming back to about my vote not moving off of Adum. I realize you're not calling me scum for it, but the same general (lack of) logic is applied here. You think I should have moved my vote from Adum to Acrostic once I started thinking of Acrostic as a scummier individual. The fact that I did not follow this weird, arbitrary voting etiquette is cause for concern to you. Because my vote allegedly would have been more useful there than where it is currently. Aside from the fact that I think that's bull****, and that votes purely as pressure are not nearly as effective as you're suggesting, it also shows that you're bizarrely focused on pointless facets of this game. Things that shouldn't even blip on your radar are getting full interrogation treatment. It doesn't matter where my vote is unless I'm actually trying to lynch someone. It doesn't matter why Zen is posting the way he is, nor why he refuses to change to your whims. It doesn't matter that people are looking in multiple places on D1 instead of all, collectively, "focusing" on one player at a time. You're twisting what Zen said about you being a threat into being a scumslip, when it's very clear that he meant that, if you and BadWolf are both scum, you are worth getting rid of first, as you would clearly be the leader in that scenario. Much easier to deal with a snake when its head is cut off, you dig?

You've dressed it up with lots of words and quotes, but all I'm seeing is you OMGUS-ing Zen and trying desperately to justify what you've already done with confusing, convoluted logic and posts so long that people will hopefully just skim them and take you at your word because you look like you're putting in effort.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

How can you be so certain about this if you've never been town before?

Not on forums I haven't. Although I have been playing mafia for about 2 or 3 years now in RL. I do know a little bit about this whether I let it on or not.

Also, you're wrong, but that's not relevant to my current beef with you.

Ok so I'm wrong based on what premise? Circus says so IT'S LAW DAMMIT!

I'm a little confused by this quote, but the way I'm reading it suggests to me that Xonar answered X1's question for you and you're basically just saying "yeah, what he said" instead of answering for yourself. I feel like it's kind of unlikely that's what you mean, but it's the only way the words make sense to me. If I am correct, then please explain to me how it is that Xonar can speak for you.

I was asking him why he asked the same question that was stated in a post before his. It shows that he probably wasn't reading considering that I hadn't posted at all yet. So yeah you were probably confused on this.

That's only if it's a townie against another townie. And we don't know we're arguing with another townie until we start arguing with them. That's how we, like, you know...get reads. The only players who know that a disagreement between two people is bad for town are scum, because they're the only ones who know who the townies are ahead of time.

Hell, in 18 I was just screwing with town. I know what it's like to play good scum, and right now it would be easy to set town against town.

Yes. A question so decent that you still haven't answered for it. I'll repeat it once again so you know what I'm talking about: How is that you have any idea what works for you in terms of getting reads if you've never been town before?

Like I've said before I'm only a newb at the forums. I've been playing mafia for a while now.

I realize that X1 probably sounds like a broken record to you at this point, and me joining in probably does nothing but put it on stereo, but a proper answer to this is important. Even though you've "answered" the question a few times now, we still don't understand you any better.

I get reads from people trying to get cases on other people. Right now with Xonar and Zen going at each other it's giving me reads on them but not a lot of others. This is one of the reasons that I only gently push rather than shove.

There are actually two issues here: your inability to explain your views in any moderately deep way,

I don't see the need to be philosophical while outing reads. It just makes it harder to understand me.

and the fact that some of what you already claim to know is impossible to know given the experience you have.

Refer to my prior posts.

The former:
"I like ducks."
"Why do you like ducks?"
"Because I think ducks are neat."
"What makes you think ducks are neat?"
"When I see ducks, I feel happy."

The latter:
"I like ducks better than geese."
"How can you like ducks better than geese if you've never been outside?"
"Ducks are better at flying than geese."
"How? Better at flying in what way? How can you accurately judge this if you've never even seen either one in real life? Why is flight the most important thing to you in your preference of birds?"
"I told you, I think ducks fly better and I like them more."

You see the problem here?

No not really. I explained my way of getting reads fairly enough. I also don't see why you should care all that much as long as I can present a decent case against scum.

Let me try to break this down further:
The bolded is a giant issue for me. You've NEVER HAD TO GET READS BEFORE, because you've never been town before. So how do you know that you "get reads better when people are...not yelling at each other?" Do you understand that you can't hold this opinion if this game is your first experience in actually trying to attain reads? You're just stating an assumption as fact even though you have no actual experience to base it on.

Refer to prior statements.

It's like buying a BMW for your sixteen-year-old son and having him say "thanks, but I wanted a Lexus." He's never driven either type of car before. This is his first car. You ask him how he arrived at his opinion, muffling your urge to punch him in his spoiled little face for not being grateful for a free BMW, and he answers "because it handles better." Again, HE HAS NEVER DRIVEN A LEXUS. OR A BMW. His opinion is based on nothing, but he still "knows" that he would have preferred the Lexus to the BMW he got. He speaks as if he has first-hand knowledge of the subject that he objectively cannot have. That is the conundrum you have presented here.

This is probably the 5th time that you have said I was inexperienced. I suggest that you stop making assumptions and actually get some decent evidence.

More from the same post as above:
"My opinion is what it is because I read the posts and that is what my opinion is. Also there were slips by people in places about things."

We know your opinion is the result of reading the posts in this thread. The question is what about the posts, specifically, brings you to those opinions? Show the slips you just mentioned. Explain why you think angry posts apparently mean that a person is scum. Show your work. If you don't, then we are forced to think that you don't actually have anything to support your assertions, meaning you're not actually scumhunting. You're just saying things. You're a wolf in sheep's clothing, trying to do what you think sheep do (no pun intended, but damn that's appropriate).

Ok. So this proves that you really didn't read my posts all that much. I have decent (not exactly immaculate) quotes in my #156. I suggest that you read through again before saying things that aren't true.

And geez enough with the extended metaphors. They're not exactly the most clear things in the world.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Zen, the **** are you doing.

Brb, gonna go skim carefully dissect some of Adum's old games to see if this bro-tastic demeanor is as transparent as it seems.

Agreed, very quickly feeling gutscum on Adum.

Circus, we dealt with this last game we played. RVS is the most useful phase in the game for scumhunting and you just ruined it.

I honestly don't get why dgames developed this "lets end rvs as soon as possible" meta, but it's incredibly stupid.

...

Intended to get a feel on both of you

...

Now, you understood I was actually looking for information using rvs, why'd you end it early?

All sounds like bull****.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

116 from Adum feels deflective.

There is an interesting answer. You just gave it.

Bull****. What was "interesting" about Circus' answer? (Nothing)

I've been trying to get this town focused, in which your vote will help. A wagon gives us pressure and your vote might spur others to vote too, adding to the pressure.
The more pressure, the better we can gauge Acrostic's reaction.

You're posturing. Half of town hadn't posted when you said this, it was page 4 in 40ppp.

Circus, quit sheeping me

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Red you'd need to prove that it's likely I did it without thought.
Yellow you'd need to prove that it's likely I did it without thought.
Orange is just baseless conjecture.

who is this guy
Vote: Xonar

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Starting to skim after Adum's bad 153. Will lynch Xonar or Adum, preferably Xonar. Town leans on Circus, BadWolf, Acrostic.

 

[July]

Because I feel 5 votes on badwolf right now would be a good position to be in, ya dig? I'm also not particularly convinced on Xonar scum

I understand your suspicions of Badwolf, but I want 5 votes on Xonar, because I'm not convinced Badwolf is scummier than Xonar.

We can play the semantics argument here, but in the end his respond was off. He might not have a responsibility to change it, but ignoring and then jumping on me is not a towny response.

I disagree, I find your confrontation with him over his posting style to be off; when he doesn't acknowledge your request you immediately become confrontational, or at least that's the tone I got from this:

Zen, I asked you to drop it.

Drop it.

You disagree you targetted him but you definitely drew your issue with his posting style into the spotlight and in an abrupt fashion, and then when he responded and he questioned your intent behind doing so here:

Zen stared blankly at his companion.

How strange of him. It may be more difficult for me to put him aside than I had wanted. What reason could he have for demanding such a thing? To look as if he is guiltless and a figure of authority? His #98 was quite strange as well. Why did he ask Circus such a question, when clearly Circus has been looking at both adum and acrostic. Very, very strange. I must doubt that my friend is an ally this game.

"Xonar, it seems that tell you told me about is true. n_n."

You take that as odd...I don't think it is, I think that is an appropriate course of action once you brought the issue of the posting style up again in such a way.

Then you're undermining your own argument.
This is what you said:

While, at the time of that post, it was not weird to say that he had no argument yet because he didn't have it laid out yet. At that time, looking at his jump on me, the only reason he hinted to was my response to his response, which shows that he is missing information and can't discern my motive. The reachy and overly defensive bold part is explained because he did have no reason.

I'm not undermining my own argument, I'm saying that you reacted to his vote against you in an overly defensive manner because 1) it was the only vote on you at the time, and 2) you were currently engaged in an odd confrontation with him, and especially in early game I think such a vote is reasonable. Also, while he posted his explicit reasoning for suspecting you in the later post, I didn't realize you were talking about him questioning your motives from his above post. Do you think him voting because he "couldn't discern your motives" is a bad thing? I feel like that's a sign he was looking at intention BEHIND the actions, which is generally good.

Except I didn't. I didn't cast suspicion on Zen for that at that time.

What was your intent behind calling him antagonistic? I saw it as casting suspicion on Zen for his response to your request.

Why come back to this again? I can see how you see it as jumpy and awkward, but my riddance was "why lie?". It's a matter of perception, and you took your PoV to it, which isn't bad, but it's not solid enough to bring it up, though I'm not surprised it made you pause.

I brought it up again because you asked me to find examples of you being jumpy and awkward O_o this was exhibit A.

Alright, I don't see how this fits in with jumpy, but the question stands.

I was trying to do something with the food et cetera, but soon realized that it's useless with this many unknown variables to it. I did draw some other conclusions though, but they're irrelevant for now.

It doesn't fit in with the jumpy point, but looking at the quote reminded me I wanted to ask you that before.

And kk.

This... is an embarassing topic. Acrostic's use of language and my language barrier makes it harder for me to read his posts. I had to read that post again and then noticed that he did answer it, which I didn't see as answer to me until a reread of the post. (no quotes didn't help either)

Kk understandable.

But I never called Zen scum. I don't see how I was "getting attention on someone else and off of me". I also don't see how saying he had no scumtells was bad, when at the time of the post, he did not lay anything out. He simply jumped on me for my reaction.

I never said you did, at least not explicitly. But you did call him antagonistic, you did get on him quickly and in (at least what I perceive) as a confrontational manner, and you brought this discussion over his posting style into the spotlight for him not cooperating with your request, and it all gets Zen in the spotlight and aims to put negative connotations around him for his response, or lack thereof. And I find you saying that he had no scumtells and therefore his vote on you was unfounded to be too simplistic because of all the connotations around your confrontation with him and because I think voting because of questions over motive/intent is legit.

The underlined says it, keyword "unconditionally". The way Zen does it is detrimental, as I have laid out.

I disagree.

July I have a feeling like you're looking at my slot under the preconception that I'm scummy, and not objectively. Read my posts again, write out my thought process for yourself, and tell me, where does my thought process fail to make sense?

My problem with your thought process is that you don't seem to see how or why anyone could find you scummy off your interactions with him over his posting style, and you retaliate against the points made about why you seem scummy and why you seem jumpy and awkward with surface level rebuttals, and sometimes rebuttals such as "I never called him scum" when that wasn't the accusation made and isn't the point of my point against you.

There are actually two issues here: your inability to explain your views in any moderately deep way, and the fact that some of what you already claim to know is impossible to know given the experience you have.

The former:
"I like ducks."
"Why do you like ducks?"
"Because I think ducks are neat."
"What makes you think ducks are neat?"
"When I see ducks, I feel happy."

The latter:
"I like ducks better than geese."
"How can you like ducks better than geese if you've never been outside?"
"Ducks are better at flying than geese."
"How? Better at flying in what way? How can you accurately judge this if you've never even seen either one in real life? Why is flight the most important thing to you in your preference of birds?"
"I told you, I think ducks fly better and I like them more."

You see the problem here?


Let me try to break this down further:
The bolded is a giant issue for me. You've NEVER HAD TO GET READS BEFORE, because you've never been town before. So how do you know that you "get reads better when people are...not yelling at each other?" Do you understand that you can't hold this opinion if this game is your first experience in actually trying to attain reads? You're just stating an assumption as fact even though you have no actual experience to base it on.

It's like buying a BMW for your sixteen-year-old son and having him say "thanks, but I wanted a Lexus." He's never driven either type of car before. This is his first car. You ask him how he arrived at his opinion, muffling your urge to punch him in his spoiled little face for not being grateful for a free BMW, and he answers "because it handles better." Again, HE HAS NEVER DRIVEN A LEXUS. OR A BMW. His opinion is based on nothing, but he still "knows" that he would have preferred the Lexus to the BMW he got. He speaks as if he has first-hand knowledge of the subject that he objectively cannot have. That is the conundrum you have presented here.

This just blew my mind (in a good way).

This makes a lot of sense and the second duck/geese scenario is definitely an accurate representation of how this conversation with badwolf feels over his ability to get reads. The first scenario is something more subtle I hadn't picked up on but is just as accurate, and I think that the inability to give any deep reads and even the lack of solid reads, and the inconsistencies over reads such as Xonar and Zen, are the biggest issues I have with badwolf.

I can see the scumminess and would support a badwolf lynch, but I really want a Xonar lynch for all the reasons stated above.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marshy will replace Gorf. Deadline will remain the same.

Voted |

Voter(s)​

|

Votes to lynch​

Ramen King |

Xonar​

|

1 / 6​

Acrostic |

adumbrodeus​

|

1 / 6​

Xonar |

Ramen King, July, Nabe​

|

3 / 6​

adumbrodeus |

Circus​

|

1 / 6​

---​

Not voting: X1-12, Gorf, Acrostic, -Masquerain-, Badwolf;

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

July you make me seriously reconsider Zen. I might just be guilty of scumgoggling him.

Circus I haven't looked into your response yet, but will do so when I have time.

I wanted to post to let you guys know I'm VLA today and possibly tomorrow, which means I might not be there on hammer day.
For that I expect to be dead lol, so here's my (old) read list;
Town:
Xonar
Circus
Badwolf
-Masquerain-

Towny:
Adumb / July

Wacko:
Acrostic

Scummy:
X1

Scum:
Zen

Null (no posts yet):
Gorf
SangfroidWarrior

bbnow

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

This just blew my mind (in a good way).

This makes a lot of sense and the second duck/geese scenario is definitely an accurate representation of how this conversation with badwolf feels over his ability to get reads. The first scenario is something more subtle I hadn't picked up on but is just as accurate, and I think that the inability to give any deep reads and even the lack of solid reads, and the inconsistencies over reads such as Xonar and Zen, are the biggest issues I have with badwolf.

I can see the scumminess and would support a badwolf lynch, but I really want a Xonar lynch for all the reasons stated above.

Again, I don't see why you should care all that much about how I get my reads as long as I can present a case against them. Granted I won't always be right, but that would take some type of inside knowledge. Answer this, why do you care all that much about how I find people to be scum, rather than actually pursuing them?

 

[X1-12]

Badwolf when will you die if you gain no more food?

marshy get in here and bring something to the party

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Badwolf when will you die if you gain no more food?

marshy get in here and bring something to the party

If no one gives me food I will die in three days.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Marshy replaces Gorf, prodding -Masquerain-

 

[#HBC | marshy]

vote xonar

 

[#HBC | marshy]

marshy get in here and bring something to the party

i have read and reached the following conclusion
































































































townlist marshy
scumlist everyone else
we should just let everyone other than me starve to death

fos everyone except me

 

[X1-12]

Deadline is tomorrow, we should just finish this. Circus you down to go Xonar?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's probably the best for town to just lynch me at this point.

Some thoughts:

Baker =/= town. Assume scum have bakers.
If someone's about to get lynched and claims to have 1 stack left, lynch that guy dead.
Make the bakers randomize their target out of their personal list. If they just bake for their biggest townread, Circus is gonna end up with way too many stacks while others starve.
Don't forget about Zen. Some things are deffo off about him.
Gut is telling me to dislike July.
Badwolf should not be pressured like this tomorrow.

Badwolfs remark about not wanting to torture people also proves that the reason he opposes pressure is childlike ignorance rather than scum intent.

Don't believe anybody's claim about how many stacks are left. Scum is likely to lie. Overall, just ignore stacks, except if an obvtown is asking for more.

As for me, I'm a VT, so a best worst case scenario (lynch town, but it's not a baker). I have 3 stacks so keeping me around wouldn't be too profitable there haha.

kk

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm up to do 2 mafia games atm, things are too busy for me and I'm just falling way behind in both.

I'll stick around till the end of the day and get some meta on xonar but otherwise...

Request replacement

 

[adumbrodeus]

Sorry xonar, i'll play with you at some later point, preferably when i only have one game to worry about.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's cool, this was a short-lived game for me anyway haha.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i was really hoping to be scum replacing into this. ****

 

[Ramen King]

"L-2? Le'ts go.

I agree with Xonar's suspicion of July."