Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

The Kutthroats have set out to draw their character thanking Iwata for all he has done.

We invite you to do the same.

 

[Arrei]

Say, could someone test out Aether's prospects against various counter moves sometime? I know that using Aether early against Marthcina and Ike's counters will cause them to swing too early to hit you, but how about against other counters with different timings on their hitboxes?

 

[KenMeister]

Hey guys. I had experimenting with Ike a lot even before the patch, and with the buffs he has now he's more fun to play than ever before, filling in the void that I was looking for since Ganon is still not too good in 4 (powerful, yet deceptively quick in some areas in Melee and PM). Ike is my official secondary now.

 

[sleepy_Nex]

Say, could someone test out Aether's prospects against various counter moves sometime? I know that using Aether early against Marthcina and Ike's counters will cause them to swing too early to hit you, but how about against other counters with different timings on their hitboxes?

Well mac's counter can't hit Ike out of Aether as far as i know. The hitbox comes out too early and he will just be rehit with Aether.

 

[Quickhero]

Say, could someone test out Aether's prospects against various counter moves sometime? I know that using Aether early against Marthcina and Ike's counters will cause them to swing too early to hit you, but how about against other counters with different timings on their hitboxes?

Is that really the case? I must be spacing Aether terribly then. How do you get them to avoid countering you while recovering via Aether?

 

[Mario766]

You have to throw the sword behind Marth/Lucina so they counter behind them, or reverse aether onto the stage. It's a bad spot either way.

If Ike could reverse grab the ledge with Aether the Marth MU would be in Ike's favor because he couldn't get freely countered.

 

[Arrei]

Well, there's that, but there's also some point where using Aether before you're too far below the stage will allow you to dodge the attack. Seems to be somewhere about half a character length below the stage, for Ike's counter, it might be different for Marcina. The trouble is, while Ike is too slow Marcina might be able to throw another counter as you descend and kill you anyway.

Also Mac's slip counter is very much able to stop Aether - I know by experience! Spacing might have something to do with it.

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Hey Ike players! We from the Ryu boards are making a doubles thread. The purpose of the thread is to find the best partner for Ryu. I'm going to invite as many people I can at once and get discussions going on all at once. We invite you to our dojo and hope you could help us discuss Ike and Ryu in doubles. Thank you in advance!

 

[Linkmario00]

I like the idea of a doubles thread. From what I remember, we don't have one. We should create it.
@ ZeroSnipist I'm gonna take a look at that and see if I can say something about Ryu+Ike

 

[Arrei]

Noticing some strange behavior from dash attack - it seems like hitting an opponent and a projectile at the same time causes the late hitbox to also become valid for hitting the opponent, hitting them twice for a total of 23% damage. Maybe destroying the projectile gives it enough hitlag or something. It's ballsy, but that's a big payoff!

It happened with Luigi's Fireball, Dr. Mario's pills, and an uncharged Sun Salutation, so I presume any weak projectile will do it.

 

[LordShade67]

Now this isn't new for Ike mains, but I thought it might as well be demonstrated which C-Stick variant is better for aerials, so...

 

[san.]

Noticing some strange behavior from dash attack - it seems like hitting an opponent and a projectile at the same time causes the late hitbox to also become valid for hitting the opponent, hitting them twice for a total of 23% damage. Maybe destroying the projectile gives it enough hitlag or something. It's ballsy, but that's a big payoff!

It happened with Luigi's Fireball, Dr. Mario's pills, and an uncharged Sun Salutation, so I presume any weak projectile will do it.

Yep, always been able to do that since 3DS.

 

[Zatchiel]

Say, could someone test out Aether's prospects against various counter moves sometime? I know that using Aether early against Marthcina and Ike's counters will cause them to swing too early to hit you, but how about against other counters with different timings on their hitboxes?

Shulk's Vision counter will whiff if it's activated during the initial upswing of Aether. Both normal and forward Vision. Also including customs afaik. So Shulk should never try to edgeguard Aether with Vision if he wants to take full advantage.

Yep, always been able to do that since 3DS.

I had no clue it was a thing before recently, when I did it against a Samus. Any idea why it happens?

 

[san.]

I had no clue it was a thing before recently, when I did it against a Samus. Any idea why it happens?

cancel the projectile with the early hit of dash attack, the hitbox expands to hit the opponent, then you hit them again with the sword. It'll happen most of the time if you dash attack right when they release the projectile and you're somewhat closer than max dash attack range.

 

[AbelCor]

Sorry if this is the wrong place, I just didn't see a fourm for it. What kind of secondaries are good for Ike? Ike is alot better now, but still has trouble against high tiers like pika and sheik, so would greninja be an ok choice?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike does well against Pika.

Its really only Sheik and maybe Rosalina he doesn't do so well against. And nobody really wins against Sheik so pick whoever you think would be good against Rosalina and hope they aren't terrible against Sheik.

 

[AbelCor]

thanks for the quick reply!

 

[Sol0ke]

My first tourney is tomorrow.

I am anxious, but hopefully I do well.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Sm4sh Mii Brawler snooze-fest 2015. @ EVO 2015.

 

[Mario766]

Im out of evo after a close set to Arikie. Rough stuff.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What other Ikes went?

 

[Oblivion129]

I believe SM passed his pools. I know Ryo isn't at EVO, but maybe San is there.

 

[san.]

SM lost to Salem 1-2. Dunno how he's doing in loser's. I'm not there.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Too bad no Ike representation ....

 

[FarsiX]

Guys I finally got around to finishing my Ike troll montage ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)

If you could tell me what you think I'd really appreciate it

also, I've had such a blast playing Ike that now he's my new Co-main. Sakurai really fixed him good.

 

[-RedX-]

That Pacman glitch is hilarious.

 

[Maik93]

This Clip... I like it!
Is there more?

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Is there a list of recoveries that Eruption works on (even if there's a 1 frame window for them)?

 

[Arrei]

Well, as far as we know, everyone has that one frame of vulnerability when snapping to the ledge, it's all about the timing. But the timing's different for every recovery and some are easier to hit than others. However, I assume it won't work against Pit and Dark Pit's side Bs if you hit them during the armor frames. Trying to use Eruption against tether recoveries has generally been an exercise in futility for me, and it's generally a bad idea to try it on Zelda, as she could easily snipe you with Farore's Wind while you're sitting there like a fiery putz.

It appears the full power fire hitbox doesn't reach as far down, so an Eruption that isn't fully charged also has an easier time blasting an enemy before they even make it to the ledge in case of recoveries from below.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I also assume characters with insane magnets like Ganon can avoid it. I don't think I've ever hit a Ganon who recovered low with it, so I gave up on trying. So who else has insane magnets that can avoid it then?

 

[Arrei]

Magnets? You mean their ledge grab range?

Ganon happens to be one of the easiest targets to hit with Eruption. Dark Dive is telegraphed and slow, and does not have an upper hitbox until the uppercut at the very end of the move so you can safely stand as far out as you can to charge and blast him, as long as he's not close enough to Ganoncide you.

The only way Ganon can avoid Eruption is to trick you into releasing it early by spacing himself absolutely perfectly, so that he ends out of the attack's range but is able to get close enough to snap after the uppercut. Not only is that extremely difficult for the big guy to do, but if you're aware of his ledge snap range and can see what he's trying to do you can just wait a little longer to hit the snap vulnerability anyway.

 

[Trueblade]

I also assume characters with insane magnets like Ganon can avoid it. I don't think I've ever hit a Ganon who recovered low with it, so I gave up on trying. So who else has insane magnets that can avoid it then?

Honestly, most of the time your Eruption will hit him before it even snaps. It sounds more like you're mistiming it since picking off Ganon that way is pretty easy. I'd recommend labbing out the timing when you get a chance since the same experience could help a lot in the Falcon matchup.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Man I want the Super Armor on Eruption back...now that it became more useful they remove the Super Armor!
I'd say we need more Armor and more Lingering!

 

[Trueblade]

Man I want the Super Armor on Eruption back...now that it became more useful they remove the Super Armor!
I'd say we need more Armor and more Lingering!

There is armor on it still, but you have to have it close to fully charged. Giving it armor on the whole charge might be overkill with how good its edge guarding is already.

 

[Arrei]

I have to wonder if being a deadly edgeguard move was actually an intended use for Eruption, though. 1.0.0 Ike really seemed like they had no idea what to do with him.

 

[-RedX-]

I miss Eruption from Brawl mostly because it was a decent(gimmicky) option in a disadvantaged state when landing.
It just works better in Smash 4 because of the new ledge system.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

So i main Link but I've been bouncing back and forth deciding on a good secondary for back up since Link's not the most viable character in the game lol...

I've been choosing between Roy and Ike for some time now But I'm at a wall. You all know Ike's capabilities pretty well so I'm just trying to get a general idea.

So, do you think Ike is better than Roy, or vice versa?

 

[Arrei]

I don't have nearly as much experience with Roy as I do with Ike, but I'd give it dead even. Both have a good number of kill moves and good combo game, especially off of grabs. Roy is certainly more mobile than Ike and has an easier time landing thanks to his fall speed and Nair, but that same quality means his recovery is hot garbage and he can't edgeguard as well when he plummets like a rock offstage. Meanwhile, Ike both has greater reach and is mostly able to inflict consistent, heavy damage no matter where an enemy is within his attack range, but he has no real answers to getting juggled, usually can't attempt more than one attack per jump, and his smashes are much more unwieldy. Both are capable of going ham on opponents but neither are really capable of forcing an opening due to leaving themselves open if they don't space well. Ike has more kill options, but Roy's Blazer gives him an OoS kill option Ike doesn't have.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Well, as far as we know, everyone has that one frame of vulnerability when snapping to the ledge, it's all about the timing. But the timing's different for every recovery and some are easier to hit than others. However, I assume it won't work against Pit and Dark Pit's side Bs if you hit them during the armor frames. Trying to use Eruption against tether recoveries has generally been an exercise in futility for me, and it's generally a bad idea to try it on Zelda, as she could easily snipe you with Farore's Wind while you're sitting there like a fiery putz.

It appears the full power fire hitbox doesn't reach as far down, so an Eruption that isn't fully charged also has an easier time blasting an enemy before they even make it to the ledge in case of recoveries from below.

I'll have to disagree with you on the Zelda thing. The timing for the ledge snap and the hit are similar. I've fought many Zeldas from the Zelda Social and you can use your super armor to take the hit and get a kill with Eruption.

Tethers are disgusting agreed.

 

[Arrei]

That's if you get Eruption to maximum power to get super armor in the first place, though. I think pretty much the only opportunity you'll have to charge it that long against Zelda is if you knock her away high up, start charging as soon as you can, and she decides to go low even after seeing you're sitting there waiting for her, perhaps specifically intending to snipe you. If you're not at kill percent, you can go for it, and might even get the kill with an unfinished Eruption if you make her teleport right into the blast's frames, but I don't think relying on the armor to protect you works out that often.