Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Mario766]

Nope, 1211 doesn't exist.

 

[san.]

Is 1211 really not a standard set? This bugged me when I played at my last tournament because that's the set I became accustomed to.

A lot of Ike's specials were altered. I think the closest to that is 2212. The functionality of eruptions and counters are pretty similar overall. I plan to make a new list once evo is over, but hopefully we can just go back to using the last 2 slots for anything you want. 1211 was the set I used at the last tournament I went to.

Also, smash counter is strangely good against other heavies. Counter an aerial or tilt and they may die at 70%.

 

[Ffamran]

I got Larry in my evo pools. Time to practice Fox mu.

Also all the Ike sets have paralysis counter, kinda annoying.

If Larry loses to Arikie, you'll have to deal with Sonic. Arikie is ranked 6 or something on NorCal's - or was it SoCal? - power ranking. Good Sonic and one who wanted to prove Sonic's Hammer Spin Dash isn't broken. With 6wX visiting that region, he, Scourge, and the other Sonic players probably shared tricks.

 

[Silver Forte]

Can you not choose your own custom moveset at tourneys that allow them, or do you have to use one of the presets? At the last tourney I entered I just went 3111 but I did have my 3ds to transfer movesets.

 

[-RedX-]

If they're using EVO rule-set, you're only allowed to choose from presets.

 

[Mario766]

EVO has a preset list. Ike kinda got shafted because Counter got boosted to his best down-b move but now he is stuck with Paralysis Counter for almost every set.

 

[Sol0ke]

Yes, next list should have 1211 please. I really like all of Ike's defaults except quickdraw.

 

[ThatGenericGuy]

Is Nair > Grab a true combo on any of the cast?

 

[Mario766]

You can get a grab off a falling N-Air yes.

 

[mario123007]

I had use Ike for quite a while, but recently came here to seek for some advice on Ike.

 

[Mario766]

EXP 2015 showing off Blitz and his meh Ike, with commentators having incorrect Ike knowledge.

Loving it.

 

[mario123007]

EXP 2015 showing off Blitz and his meh Ike, with commentators having incorrect Ike knowledge.

Loving it.

When is EXP 2015?

 

[Trueblade]

When is EXP 2015?

Wrapped up earlier today, VODs should be available whenever EGE feels like it.

EXP 2015 showing off Blitz and his meh Ike, with commentators having incorrect Ike knowledge.

Loving it.

I wouldn't really say "meh." He's got a solid Ike, but he can make some really weird decisions.

 

[mario123007]

Wrapped up earlier today, VODs should be available whenever EGE feels like it.

I wouldn't really say "meh." He's got a solid Ike, but he can make some really weird decisions.

Hm.. the only Smasher I know in the Wii U bracket is Ally. Melee I don't want to check it anyway cuz I know M2K will definitely win.

I hope they have video of his match.

 

[Ryo_Guikido]

Yo! Everyone!

 

[GhostUrsa]

I'm gone for 3 weeks and everything seems to have exploded around here. Looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.

 

[gsninja]

Also, whatthehoozits? I KOed a Zamus with Counter at 109% from about 1/3 of the stage away from the ledge...except the move I countered was her jab, of all things, either Jab1 or Jab2, red lightning and all. Only at 69% myself, too, so there wasn't much rage. Now I know Counter isn't supposed to kill that early off a move that light.

His counter is so stupid strong now, I've gotten a few ridiculous KOs that I didn't think were possible

 

[Arrei]

Well, I meant that more as a "Wait, how the hell did that happen?" moment. Does it scale with weight oddly or something? I countered another light hit from a Peach a few days later, at higher percent, at around the same spot, and it didn't come close to killing her.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

His counter got a Knockback growth rate buff a while back, that's what happened.

 

[Mario766]

It could have been bad DI.

 

[Arrei]

Could have, but it was hard enough to trigger the red lightning on Zamus and not on Peach.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I remember reading somewhere that with Ike's Knockback boost for his counter, it works more effective against weaker hits than stronger ones since the base is better than what their opponent's move was. You'll see moves that don't do much for damage and KB send your opponents into a panicked tumble when you counter them. If only Counter started slightly faster, then it would be a great combo breaker!

Edit: I'm having a hard time finding the source of this info. I hope I'm not mis-remembering something.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Would anyone want to set up a time to play me and give me some pointers on Ike? I've been playing him for a few months now.

 

[Quickhero]

You people all seem like people who have a good sense of comadarie, and I'd love to join your ranks! :D

If there is any Skype chat for the Ike group, I'd love to be in, but I'd love to be around the better parts of the community, and the people at the Ike boards definitely seem to match what I want.

 

[Arrei]

I came across a rather disconcerting loading screen tip about Roy's Dair, saying something along the lines of "It's slow, but it makes Roy's hitbox smaller!"

Considering Roy got his Dair from Ike... is... is that why our Dair is so bad? Because it shifts Ike's hitbox into the upper 2/3 of his model to make him slightly less of a big target that can't defend himself from below?

 

[McKnightlíght]

Maybe dair is so bad so that when you actually get the meteor KO it brings the maximum disrespect and hype.

 

[GhostUrsa]

You people all seem like people who have a good sense of comadarie, and I'd love to join your ranks! :D

If there is any Skype chat for the Ike group, I'd love to be in, but I'd love to be around the better parts of the community, and the people at the Ike boards definitely seem to match what I want.

I've been going through the forum posts looking to see if we have an active one, and the current one I can find is here: http://smashboards.com/threads/optimizing-ike-3-5-skype-group.378487/page-3

If there are others, I haven't found it yet. Hmm, I wonder if I should start participating in them as well?

Maybe dair is so bad so that when you actually get the meteor KO it brings the maximum disrespect and hype.

I was actually able to Meteor 3 of my opponents in the last tourney I was in. Never was able to successfully pull it off before but it was glorious hype when I did here. Ike's got to save that d-air for when he knows it will connect, or the end lag can get him in trouble. Try it when your opponent is going for a deep recovery (and seems to be avoiding your Eruption) so that you hit them right as they are charging up their Up-B. That seems to help me, since most Up-B's starting animation stalls their gravity and makes them an easier target.

I came across a rather disconcerting loading screen tip about Roy's Dair, saying something along the lines of "It's slow, but it makes Roy's hitbox smaller!"

Considering Roy got his Dair from Ike... is... is that why our Dair is so bad? Because it shifts Ike's hitbox into the upper 2/3 of his model to make him slightly less of a big target that can't defend himself from below?

I wonder if what we consider 'hurtboxes' is what they are mentioning here. (I was reading that some devs can call both hit and hurt boxes collision bubbles after their engine's term, so this could be a mistranslation or misinterpretation) I can see that both Roy and Ike's bodies get much smaller during the swing, which makes it harder to challenge their d-air once the attack animation starts. I know Ike's issue isn't the size of the entire hitbox, but how much of it is considered meteor and how much is just a normal hitbox. From what I've heard from others, the meteor used to be almost the entire sword but now it's only the tip.

 

[Thouvexed]

Hello, new Ike user here. I've recently started using Ike and I'm interested in making him one of my characters, so here I am.
Is there an Ike Skype Group? c:

 

[Quickhero]

Hello, new Ike user here. I've recently started using Ike and I'm interested in making him one of my characters, so here I am.
Is there an Ike Skype Group? c:

GhostUrsa mentions this the post above you haha, but it's here regardless.
http://smashboards.com/threads/optimizing-ike-3-5-skype-group.378487/page-3

 

[san.]

I should delete the crappy friend finder and just make a Skype sticky lol.

 

[Quickhero]

I should delete the crappy friend finder and just make a Skype sticky lol.

I guess, since I believe they serve the same purpose. Why search for friends when you can hang out with them? :3

 

[Quickhero]

I know it's a double post, but I think it's best to have this posted separately.

I thought long and hard about this, and despite having Sheik and Marth being my main (and close secondary) since Melee, I think it's time to let Ike become my main in Smash 4. I definitely like him as a character, with Radiant Dawn being one of my favorite games and with Ike being an insanely good unit in the game; however, the main reason is because I already have a strong headstart on him and I have an easy place where I can learn how to use him, not only with a good board, which has easy places where you can access help that are not only very effective, but very easy to learn from as well.

Just as important as that, though, I also have someone in my family that (albeit not often) I can actually practice with and have him show me how to play Ike, since my brother is actually quite good at Ike and has played Ike since Brawl, even going through the transition between Brawl Ike and Smash 4 Ike pretty well. I've always had a hard time really improving my Marth skills, since I had no real life person be able to truly teach me the ways of him, since he is quite complex and doesn't take online lag the easiest. Ike seems to not only alleviate this issue, but is able to alleviate this issue by using my brother, which is really cool.

So yeah, I hope I'm useful to you guys, as I've decided that I'm sticking with Ike; I aim to become tournament viable with a character I enjoy and that I shall do! I'll still keep Marth and Sheik as good and optimal secondaries, but they aren't my prime focus anymore.

 

[Arrei]

I wonder if what we consider 'hurtboxes' is what they are mentioning here. (I was reading that some devs can call both hit and hurt boxes collision bubbles after their engine's term, so this could be a mistranslation or misinterpretation) I can see that both Roy and Ike's bodies get much smaller during the swing, which makes it harder to challenge their d-air once the attack animation starts.

I think that's exactly what they're saying. But what I'm wondering after seeing that loading tip is, is Dair's badness being justified by what scant little strategic and defensive utility they think that smaller hitbox gives us? Because it seems like they consider it a balancing positive aspect of the move. But unlike Usmash sometimes allowing us to duck under an aerial attack and respond with a giant swing, I just don't see what benefit being able to tuck in Ike and Roy's hitbox during Dair gives us when the move itself is so slow and offers so little protection, on top of us likely falling into an opponent's chasing attack while in startup.

I'm so jelly of Rosalina's Dair, that thing sticks around forever.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I think that's exactly what they're saying. But what I'm wondering after seeing that loading tip is, is Dair's badness being justified by what scant little strategic and defensive utility they think that smaller hitbox gives us? Because it seems like they consider it a balancing positive aspect of the move. But unlike Usmash sometimes allowing us to duck under an aerial attack and respond with a giant swing, I just don't see what benefit being able to tuck in Ike and Roy's hitbox during Dair gives us when the move itself is so slow and offers so little protection, on top of us likely falling into an opponent's chasing attack while in startup.

I'm so jelly of Rosalina's Dair, that thing sticks around forever.

The benefit would be against characters with U-air attacks that are similar to ours, if I had to look at it from a design standpoint. A U-air with more horizontal reach than vertical reach is designed to hit characters with a smaller body size (though Ike is a heavy, his body size doesn't match his colleagues.) or a decent air-dodge. This allows Ike to challenge such a U-air and his optimal spacing would out of reach from such a counter. Unfortunately, it doesn't linger enough to be as effective as Sheik's U-air (Pretty much the same concept, but upwards) or Captaindorf's spike. Rosie's d-air and u-air are definitely something to be envious about. It may not have the reach, but it is definitely hard to get out of the way of in a pinch.

@ Quickhero I switched to Ike because I wanted a character that was easy on the hands but was all about the mind. I'm old enough where speedy characters are something I just can't keep up with anymore. (I played a decent Sonic back on Brawl as a secondary, to balance out Link's slow ass in that one.) I'm only 30, but have been playing games heavily since I was 4 and can attest to a little Arthritis now because of it. That and I favored a "Wait and See" approach to fighting, which is something Ike excels at. The switch was a no-brainer for me, as Smash 4 corrected the issues that I couldn't get around in the last iteration for Ike that prevented me from selecting him. He's a great character that rewards the patient player. (A player who knows when to wait, and when to rush like a tiger!)

Now that my anecdote is finished, a word of caution and hope. Ike requires a good amount of timing to be competent, which makes your Marth knowledge transfer fairly well as long as you can adapt to the slower speed of Ike's attacks. The disadvantage will be that fighting with him online can still be difficult due to the precision required to maximize his range. If you felt fighting with Marth online was bad, Ike won't be much easier (still easier, but not as much) since Ike's best strategies require him to move just out of reach and strike with his exceptional range.

 

[FarsiX]

I started to main Ike a few nights ago for a montage and all I can say is WOW. Ike is so OP if you know how to counter punch. I always thought he was just a slow/strong brute in the lower tiers, no no no he's a freaking monster. His range is incredible and his spike is the soooo hilariously good.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I started to main Ike a few nights ago for a montage and all I can say is WOW. Ike is so OP if you know how to counter punch. I always thought he was just a slow/strong brute in the lower tiers, no no no he's a freaking monster. His range is incredible and his spike is the soooo hilariously good.

Unfortunately, his spike is also difficult to pull off consistently. It's why you don't see many Ike's attempt it. You have to know that it will connect or you could be in a world of hurt. (The ending lag on it can be terrible.) He does have quite a bit going for him that I feel puts him above most of his heavy weight colleagues. (Personal opinion, mind you. I have seen my fair share of good heavy players in the other characters.) His range, disjointed hitbox and smaller size definitely work in his favor. Only big disadvantages he has that is fairly unique to him is that he has a harder time with zoners (QD either clanks or has too low of priority against missles), and he does not seem to have enough super armor with some of his moves (though some moves really lower our hitbox, so from a design standpoint I can see why they changed some of it).

 

[Zatchiel]

Watching Stark on ShowdownSmash. He's on fire right now.

Spoke a little too soon, he's out of the tournament now. But damn. He broke a shield with back-to-back wake up attack.

 

[-RedX-]

Saw that too, I was hoping that would happen the moment I saw Luigi held his shield the second time.

 

[XDaDePsak]

fite me

msg me now

 

[the king of murder]

I did some messing around with Ike and it turns out U-air to Fair is a combo at 50%(training mode registered it as such not sure how reliable that is though). Uair also combos into Uair at that percent although it's a bit more difficult to execute and against fastfallers U-air to reverse Bair also works as a combo.

My subjects were Falcon, Shiek, Ryu, Mario, Fox, Sonic and Ike all in training mode. I know Uair is really situational and difficult to land on the ground but I think it's nice to keep those things in mind.

Sadly I couldn't find new Dair combos that aren't known here already but I find Dair a really good move to use as techchase starter because of the decreased end lag.