Fox Match-Up General Discussion

[Admiral Pit]

As much as I hate Pit haters... *stares at above signature*

Ahem, back to subject, I find it ironic that Fox is bad at his own stage.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206886
Anyways, this is the special Counterpick/banning with Pit thread, showing what stages to CP chars on and which to ban.

Besides Lylat, it says that the Frigate is also a CP against Fox. Corneria and Halberd are bad stages against Fox and I blame that Usmash...

 

[Fenrir VII]

I completely disagree that fox is bad on Lylat...

That, FD, and Smashville are easily my top 3 favorite Neutrals to come up... FD, then Lylat, then SV in order.

The stage tilts
We can all just accept this and move on. However, with the adaptability of Fox's recovery, it doesn't affect him as much as the other spacies... not nearly... The curvature of the firefox, and the platforms to illusion onto make this stage really nice for recovery for me...

That mixed with the wideness of the stage, which is amazing for Fox, given his fast projectile and good mobility.
The platforms are just about perfectly spaced to punish people off of them. The SH Fair works wonders over a platform, and Fox can actually combo somebody upwards, then chase them with the platforms.

Battlefield would easily be my favorite neutral if it weren't so cramped. Fox seems to get out zoned there, but the stage's tightness limits him.
Lylat shares a similar benefit of platform spacing for fox, yet VERY spread out, so your mobility isn't lost...

I'll admit the ledges can be a bit weird... and I've been screwed a handful of times there, but it's not even 1 SD in 5 matches... it's a very random occurrence, and any respectable Fox player should learn how the stage operates and be able to recover on it.

That's just my two cents on the stage discussion.

 

[deepseadiva]

In Soviet Russia Peach Boards, Peach discusses you!

Yea, so the Peaches are discussing the little scamp Fox.

Here's our Weekly Discussion: linky link.
So far, while some see it as equal, others see it in Peach's advantage.

We're also discussing counterpick stages: clicky click.
We've got Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes, and PS1 so far. Anything you recommend we ban?

Barrelroll on over when ever you get a free bit of time.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Barrelroll on over when ever you get a free bit of time.

Done.

As for the stage discussion, I do think the FD and Lylat aren't ideal for any of the Starfox characters. They all have recoveries that are completely screwed by their edges, and Lylat hinders Laser game. IMO, the best time to use them is against another SF character.

 

[fox219]

very interesting matchups. toon link boards say that toon link wins 70-30. chaotic. I know fox will rise in the future.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

very interesting matchups. toon link boards say that toon link wins 70-30. chaotic. I know fox will rise in the future.

You'd better hope he does, because his tourney rankings have done nothing but go downhill since this summer. Not to mention, many thought he would be top/high tier, but he's only mid tier now (and speculated to fall even further).

 

[Collective of Bears]

You'd better hope he does, because his tourney rankings have done nothing but go downhill since this summer. Not to mention, many thought he would be top/high tier, but he's only mid tier now (and speculated to fall even further).

Which is bad.

I honestly don't see how Fox is so under-credited. But then again, I may just be saying that because I'm good as Fox. idk

 

[M@v]

Umm Fd is fox's best stage. Seriously. The edge isnt a problem for fox; Curved firefox takes care of that every time. Wolf on the other hand is screwed.

Yet another reason why I believe Fox>wolf.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Umm Fd is fox's best stage. Seriously. The edge isnt a problem for fox; Curved firefox takes care of that every time. Wolf on the other hand is screwed.

Yet another reason why I believe Fox>wolf.

Ah, yes. I've only been a Fox player for a few days, I don't know everything, so pardon any dumb statements I make.

 

[PhilMcCloud17]

Lol it is true, the only people I've ever heard wi-fi proves nothing are those who always lose while playing it. Supposedly we're supposed to believe they get beat us in rl. But come on... we're FOX, not many other characters get as screwed as us. Even our recovery requires precise timing our else we end up missing the edge or into a smash or spike.

we play a very tough character indeed.

 

[Lightning93]

I do admit SD's because of Lylat tilting doesn't occur to often, but when it does it usually screws you up pretty bad. It's not just your stock that gets affected but also your mindset. Especially at tourney's when everyone is like "OOOOOHHHHH!" It's hard to regain your combo and gimping pride after one of those let me tell you. Confidence and the right mindset is very important in Brawl, which I believe Fenrir has inadvertently proved time and time again.

But yeah, I don't personally favor Lylat's setup, it messes up your laser game, and can be hard to approach if your opponent stays to the bottom level. Although I do agree the stage helps you very nicely with your air-game.

 

[Yanoss1313]

As much as I hate Pit haters... *stares at above signature*

lol, Pit was just the first bot to make me foam at the mouth in anger, back when Ganondorf was my "main" main, not saying he's not real fun to play.

 

[M@v]

just a side note, peach has been changed back to 45:55 peach. Its my fault :O

 

[Zhamy]

Its my fault :O

We still love you M@v.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

We still love you M@v.

i second this, and Zhamy too lol.

 

[Lightning93]

Usually I would say I love all of you as well, but preparing for Finals has just beaten the #@!? outta me. I can't stay happy forever, considering my school really only gave us two nights to study.

Anyways that's great, now that everything is explained I think all our match-ups are on the right track. Is it possible to get a link for the Link discussion for a reference? (Lol pun intended ;P.)

 

[Afropony]

Playing some friendlies with my friends Fox (who mains him) I would probably call this 60-40 for Pit's advantage.

 

[Lightning93]

60-40 for Pit's advantage.

Can you please care to elaborate?

 

[M@v]

Calling this one closer to even.

Both have good aerials
Priority battles seems about even
Both are relatively light

Foxs+
Arrows are not a problem
Kills better
faster
Can utilt juggle pit


Pits+
Can edgeuard fox better than he can edgeguard pit
MUCH better recovery
Better range on ground attacks.
Blaster isnt a problem

More later.

 

[Zhamy]

GUYS THIS IS OBVIOUSLY IN PIT'S FAVOR.

GUIDE TO WINNING BRAWL WITH PIT:
1) ARROWS ARROWS ARROWS
2) HIYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA
3) ????
4) PROFIT

Okay, exams are obviously killing my brain.

 

[M@v]

GUYS THIS IS OBVIOUSLY IN PIT'S FAVOR.

GUIDE TO WINNING BRAWL WITH PIT:
1) ARROWS ARROWS ARROWS
2) HIYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA
3) ????
4) PROFIT

Okay, exams are obviously killing my brain.

you fail. That south park pun only has THREE phases.

 

[Zhamy]

you Fail. That South Park Pun Only Has Three Phases.

Guide To Beating M@v:
1) Pick A Character
2) Watch M@v Sd Three Times
3) Watch M@v Sd Three Times In Match 2
4) ???
5) Profit

 

[JigglyZelda003]

wow Exams are killing our Foxs brains lately. poor guys, im glad im done with mine. i send you all cookies.
*sends cookies*



anyway i feel its closer to even (45-55pit maybe) but i can't contribute on pit.

 

[M@v]

Im about to go kill my mind. My finals are next week, so im starting tonight. Excuse and idiocy I show from now until wed.

 

[Lightning93]

DUDE MY FINALS ARE FREAKING TOMORROW. SHIIIIIIIIII#@!!!!

I SHOULD BE STUDYING BUT I JUST CAN'T AHHHHHHHHHH!!!

I wanna cuss so bad, but my conscience won't allow it. These Fox boards are too good for such foulness.

 

[M@v]

haha, mine are next week.

 

[Lightning93]

Haha? I don't laugh at your misfortunes... I... I... see how it is...

*walks away*

 

[Lightning93]

*walks back because hes not ready to study more yet*

Personally I haven't had trouble with Pit's. I don't find them to hard to combo, and although they have a better gimping ability then we do, we don't fall of the stage so much.

 

[M@v]

Haha? I don't laugh at your misfortunes... I... I... see how it is...

*walks away*

But you get out earlier than me. I have to wait until next Wed. to go home.

 

[Lightning93]

Lol... so do I... my finals start today and go until Wednesday... and I'm still not laughing back at you no matter what you say lol!

 

[Fenrir VII]

oooh ooh, can I join? I finished my finals yesterday. : P

Pit poops on Fox's dair from above, which makes it fairly annoying. The match is definitely pretty even, though... 4-6 : 6-4 range.

Pit can edgeguard Fox better than Fox can Pit, but even still, a good-recovering Fox won't have too much trouble... On stage, Fox kills Pit REALLY quickly.

The main problem with Pit is those stupid ledge campers... Yeah, it's beatable, but annoying as anything.

 

[SCOTU]

@ Fenrir: i've always wondered, does your sig apply to MMs as well (for large values of money)? even when you know you're going to lose?

so i suppose if i were to challenge you in a $20 MM, my falco vs your fox on DL64, you'd be cool with it?

hell. My falco vs your pichu on DL64?

your sig explicitly says "will accept all challenges from ... Falco players"

 

[M@v]

@ Fenrir: i've always wondered, does your sig apply to MMs as well (for large values of money)? even when you know you're going to lose?

so i suppose if i were to challenge you in a $20 MM, my falco vs your fox on DL64, you'd be cool with it?

hell. My falco vs your pichu on DL64?

your sig explicitly says "will accept all challenges from ... Falco players"

Lol your getting technical on him =P

 

[Fenrir VII]

@ Fenrir: i've always wondered, does your sig apply to MMs as well (for large values of money)? even when you know you're going to lose?

so i suppose if i were to challenge you in a $20 MM, my falco vs your fox on DL64, you'd be cool with it?

hell. My falco vs your pichu on DL64?

your sig explicitly says "will accept all challenges from ... Falco players"

Only been in a situation where I knew I was going to lose once.... and that was against Azen at MLG orlando (05 I believe?? maybe 06)

Would I accept MM for a hundred dollars against Azen in Melee? probably not...

would I take one for $20 against M2k MK vs Fox? yeah..I would.

I'm technically meaning Brawl... and I'm technically meaning you challenge me...not a single of my characters, but that's a bit flexible, too.

Man, I haven't played Melee in months, but I'd pick it back up.... lol and I like fighting Falco players in Melee, too... played DaShizWiz quite a bit.

 

[Zhamy]

@ Fenrir: i've always wondered, does your sig apply to MMs as well (for large values of money)? even when you know you're going to lose?

so i suppose if i were to challenge you in a $20 MM, my falco vs your fox on DL64, you'd be cool with it?

hell. My falco vs your pichu on DL64?

your sig explicitly says "will accept all challenges from ... Falco players"

Finals are obviously eating your brain.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Zhamy, finals have killed like everyone brain lol

 

[M@v]

Im going to get my brain killed now. Going to library to smash chem into my mind for about 4 hours.

 

[Lightning93]

Lol I finished my spanish and world history, just got 3 left.

 

[Afropony]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but if Pit shoots an arrow and fox reflects it and then Pit reflects it with his Mirror shield after a while That arrow will break through Fox's reflector and can end up doing around 60 damage. So if this happens make sure you jump away from the arrow because it can 1 hit KO you.

 

[M@v]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but if Pit shoots an arrow and fox reflects it and then Pit reflects it with his Mirror shield after a while That arrow will break through Fox's reflector and can end up doing around 60 damage. So if this happens make sure you jump away from the arrow because it can 1 hit KO you.

In order for that to work, you need to be on opposite ends of FD. Also, anyone who decides to bounce an arrow back and forth between reflectors should be slapped for idiocy