Fox: Is he number one?

[Strife]

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.

Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!

Do you believe what you are saying or are you just copying that video as a joke?

 

[Mew2King]

The PUNCH!

 

[JPOBS]

"I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium"

lmao every. single. time. So many good quotes in that vid.

 

[EthereaL]

Kal, I never respected your wit very much until that post. I laughed.

The Punch!

 

[Varist]

the post above this one embarrasses me.

 

[Bones0]

I am Bones, and I can attest that Ganon definitely crushes me with many attacks that do 15%+.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm not crazy. Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%.

I am Bones, and I can attest that Ganon definitely crushes me with many attacks that do 15%+.

LMFAO. That's HILARIOUS.

Kal, you are a genius. I will forever be in awe of you.

 

[Varist]

i feel like i'm the only 2011'er who's not ********.

 

[DerfMidWest]

no, you're ******** too. you just don't know it yet.

 

[Varist]

present a warrant for your claim madame.

 

[Bones0]

present a warrant for your claim madame.

Trying to explain things to ******** people is... well... ********.

 

[Stev]

Trying to explain things to ******** people is... well... ********.

Did you just call yourself ********?

 

[Bones0]

Did you just call yourself ********?

*checks join date*

No.

 

[Varist]

*checks join date*

No.

so you're arguing on the basis that my statement that "the other 2011ers are ********" is true?

but then if you agreed with what I said, why were you calling me ******** for saying it in the first place?

PARADOX.

 

[Bones0]

I never called anyone ********.

 

[ShroudedOne]

i feel like i'm the only 2011'er who's not ********.

So why am I ********?

I realize it's a reference that I'm missing. I realized it when I read it, and I thought it was funny.

But I fail to see how that makes me ********. Just uninformed.

 

[Kal]

Kal, I never respected your wit very much until that post. I laughed.

Sort of hurt that you never respected my wit. Probably going to go practice Ganon's A punch until I feel better.

 

[Avalancer]

With Falco I miss the edgeguarding capabilities of Fox, and with Fox I miss the stun of the blaster.

 

[Ørn]

^^that line always gets me lol

Someone should do an epic reading of that post.

I don't know what you consider "an epic reading", but this one personally had me laughing back in '09: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te6WkqQfSmc

There was also that one combo video that narrated the topic, but I can't seem to find it anywhere now.

On another note, I almost feel like a veteran for having read the original topic on GameFAQs back when it was posted, lol.

Anyway, I don't have much to say to the overall topic except I feel like Falco is slightly better than Fox nowadays.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Ohhhhhhhhh...

Wow...

That just makes it better.

 

[Johnknight1]

Did you just call yourself ********?

My expression when I read this was the same as the face of your Cookie Monster profile picture!

so you're arguing on the basis that my statement that "the other 2011ers are ********" is true?

but then if you agreed with what I said, why were you calling me ******** for saying it in the first place?

PARADOX.

Does that mean at one point we were all ********? Or that since we posted in 2011 we are all ********? Or that since it is the year 2011 we are ********? Or that since Marty went to the past and his mom tried to get it on with him and he let it happen that he is ********?

Damn this conversation is ********...

But yeah, I still think Fox is the best.

 

[Strife]

Can anyone link to the original video? Was it removed from youtube or something?

 

[Kal]

Here is the original thread on GameFAQs. The video is just some text-to-speech bull ****.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Ah. I'm so glad I'm not a ****** anymore. Much appreciated, Kal.

 

[Bing]

Fox is not number 1, Marth is.


No but seriously, I think Falco is #1 to Fox, not only because he is so masterful at controlling situations Fox may have great combos, great stage control, and a ton of options, but only when the opponent is right in front of him. Falco I believe has more of a metagame to be developed, im not saying its a ton, but I would already say that Falco is better then Fox by a bit.
Now I also think that everyone is forgetting about Sheik, Sheik has a lot of great match ups, and a lot of options. Mind you, I dont know if I would fight that Sheik is better then Fox...

 

[EthereaL]

I liked the statement that we haven't seen the right type of Fox player, yet (comparing Fox's best style of play to Falco's).

 

[Kal]

Everyone always says that about anyone they feel is underrated. I'm always *****ing about how we just haven't seen a Marth with perfect spacing, who juggles stupidly well, and who will never drop a combo. But honestly, I doubt that, even if such a Marth surfaced, the character would really be that much better.

 

[Dan Salvato]

I don't think naming "number one" even makes sense since there is such a variety of match-ups and strategies. Being "number one" would simply mean the character has a slight few more advantageous match-ups than the other characters. In my opinion, it's too cloudy to mean anything, and besides, 99.9% of players can kick *** with whomever they want.

 

[Kal]

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Fox is the absolute best, yes.

Next topic please.

 

[Sinji]

This is the reason why fox is undoubtedly number 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z4nWF5r5VI0#t=27s

Close the thread.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

This is the reason why fox is undoubtedly number 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z4nWF5r5VI0#t=27s

Close the thread.

That was amazing.

 

[BEES]

This is the reason why fox is undoubtedly number 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z4nWF5r5VI0#t=27s

Close the thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_Sdf1m2Zo&feature=related#

reopen the thread

 

[Deleted member]

I liked the statement that we haven't seen the right type of Fox player, yet (comparing Fox's best style of play to Falco's).

We can go over that more on aim if you have it. You probably already have a good idea of how I view the game. But honestly I don't really like posting my best in MD anymore, I save it for specific people.

 

[Mew2King]

that was just jman massively outplaying him dude. Jman was way better at this time period compared to pp. I could do the same gimps with sheik or marth if i got a grab from that position and they didn't DI my throw.

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah it's a really bad post even if it was just a joke. I could link to Bum vs. M2K first stock and say "look DK es #1 huehuehue" and it'd be stupid.

 

[crush]

i feel like i'm the only 2011'er who's not ********.

Im ********?

 

[Varist]

Im ********?

yup, and you joined one day after I did.
that means you're slow.

Spoiler

get it?

 

[Spyro]

On paper Fox is the best, but it is really hard to stay consistent with Fox, so Falcos will perform better at tournaments.

 

[EthereaL]

Umbreon explained his views on Fox to me, and I found it really interesting. How would you all say Fox's optimal style of play is advantageous compared to Falco's, if it is at all?