Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[SuPeRbOoM]

maybe it's just a europe problem

 

[Sempiternity]

it's gotten so bad for me that whenever i play melee i'm constantly sidestepping on platforms

 

[Mahie]

Yeah I have no idea about the US. Europe doesn't, I'm like the only one doing SD, Pivot SD, Dash SD etc.


Dair -> Dtilt -> Dair sounds like a bad combo, really. Don't rely on multihit moves if possible.

 

[M!nt]

I do shield Drop, but I've been accidentally shield grabbing instead a lot lately, really making me angry.

 

[Sangoku]

I always SD. Rarely dash SD or pivot SD though.

Just a special case where SD is bad: when you just died and want to go down the top DL platform. The opponent can hit you while you're in shield and the shieldstun will take time on your invincible frames. Not too problematic I guess, since you shouldn't really count on invincible frames to do anything...

 

[Mahie]

I always SD. Rarely dash SD or pivot SD though.

Just a special case where SD is bad: when you just died and want to go down the top DL platform. The opponent can hit you while you're in shield and the shieldstun will take time on your invincible frames. Not too problematic I guess, since you shouldn't really count on invincible frames to do anything...

Yeah it happened to me as well once, it's a bit of a waste, might as well try to set up a good position instead of giving him instant shield pressure on your fresh stock.

Also I didn't count you because I didn't get to play you in forever, my bad.

 

[SSBPete]

you shouldn't even be able to see the shield when shield dropping, let alone give them enough time to attack you while shielding.

im a huge fan of dash shield drops and pivot shield drops. in fact i can't name any good aus player who doesn't shield drop consistently. its always been a must for us

 

[Sempiternity]

there's absolutely no reason not to shield drop

i can't think of a single reason

not one

i always thought it was commonly accepted that everybody did it

it's not like it's that hard to train yourself to do

 

[CobraWolf]

What is shield dropping and when is it good to use it?

also if you LHDL do you land on the ground afterwards or end up grabbing the ledge again?

 

[M!nt]

Shield dropping is when you hold shield and and press down to cut the lag for dropping through platforms. When is it good? All the time, you should do it anytime you drop from a platform. Also that isn't just for fox just in case you didn't know.

 

[clubbadubba]

What is shield dropping and when is it good to use it?

also if you LHDL do you land on the ground afterwards or end up grabbing the ledge again?

shield dropping is dropping through a platform while pressing z. It skips the ducking motion (right?) which is why its faster and better. Also you can do it while dashing, which gives you a new option.

land on the stage after the lasers. sometimes you can even get them with the lasers if they're real close to the edge, its funny.

 

[CobraWolf]

Thanks for the responses.

Another question. I know a good finisher with fox is jab into Up Smash. When performing this, there is knockback from the jab so you have to edge over to the opponent. I was wondering, can you just walk with fox over to them after the jab and then upsmash, or can you use a very short dash?

Also if I practice this in training mode is it possible to keep the combo counter from reseting when doing a jab into upsmash finisher?

 

[ballin4life]

you can do either a walk or a short dash. it depends a bit on the character, percent, and range that you hit the jab. i.e. if you hit them with the very edge of the jab (and maybe they DIed away) you'll often have to dash to get to them before they hit the ground, especially if it's a heavy/fastfalling character at a lower percent.

but yeah if you have to move it's usually best to just dash regardless.

jab usmash can certainly combo on the combo meter btw

 

[clubbadubba]

if they are too far for a walk, and too close so that a dash would go past them (and not get the kill hit), go for dash pivot usmash like a boss. Never actually done that or remember seeing anyone do that, but that has to be commonplace right? Maybe I've just never noticed it before

 

[The Star King]

No it's not commonplace because you can interrupt a dash with an usmash whenever so they can't really be "too close"

 

[clubbadubba]

No it's not commonplace because you can interrupt a dash with an usmash whenever so they can't really be "too close"

ahhh i knew that. I just sometimes find myself dashing past people when I upsmash. wutevs I'm gonna make it a thing now dash pivot upsmash SIT THE **** DOWN FOOL

 

[The Star King]

Well on second thought you probably CAN be too close, because you still slide when you interrupt a dash and you could go past them while still in the frame before usmash comes out. But then there's walking, and I doubt there's a distance that standing AND walking AND dashing won't work.

Have fun with that lol, we all need a trademark ne?

 

[asianaussie]

just jab a second time

 

[SSBPete]

clubba you ain't got game

im the inventor of teleport slide pivot upsmash

 

[Mahie]

Well on second thought you probably CAN be too close, because you still slide when you interrupt a dash and you could go past them while still in the frame before usmash comes out. But then there's walking, and I doubt there's a distance that standing AND walking AND dashing won't work.

Have fun with that lol, we all need a trademark ne?

If they're too close you could also just Jab -> Usmash without moving, at all, or make it easier by double jabbing and adding some height.

Shield dropping > Dropping in every situation, learn it. It's about the same thing as Lcancelling over doing nothing.

 

[The Star King]

I mentioned standing in my post and aa talked about double jabbing

lol

 

[CobraWolf]

My friend mains DK and Yoshi and I noticed b/c of DK's grab range and yoshi's ground attk range, it is hard to get in or even set up a jab as fox.

To combat this vs DK I try to get dair combos as fox. Vs yoshi though, it's harder to approach with dair b/c of yoshi's uptilt and upsmash.

So, what is a good way to approach yoshi if his ground range is superior to mine and i cant get in a jab a lot of the time.

 

[ballin4life]

why are you trying to jab? use aerials. and lasers. lots of them.

in fact, i've discovered that the answer to every fox question is "PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW"

TTHRIC lock it up mods

 

[CobraWolf]

You should link Wenbobular's thread.

My random fox tips:

laser. a lot.

Be wary of using fox's aerials at super low percents against heavies. They don't have enough hitstun to start a combo, and many times they can attack you back and combo you.

Fox's jab comes out fast, has good hitstun, a nice knockback that sets up for grab or usmash or another jab. It's really good for interrupting grabs, and it clanks with a lot of annoying moves like pikachu's utilt but recovers faster. Be wary at super low percents though.

Fox combo tips - fox has a few staple combos. Utilts/dtilt -> uair x 10 and fair/bair/nair chains more effective against floaties). Master these and be able to transition between them. Combo finishers are usmash, fsmash, nair, and non stale uairs. Don't be afraid to use drills here and there, depending on your opponent's DI.

Fox in the hyrule tent - obviously grab works really well. Jabs -> grab makes for slightly easier timing at mid percents and higher. Ftilt into the tent can be a good set up too, especially against the floatier characters that you can't just chain throw.

Even if you mess up you can often get them again. Being under the tent makes it really easy to get hit by lasers and regrabbed.

This contradicts your above post.

EDIT: Okay not the laser a lot part lol, but the rest.

 

[clubbadubba]

seems like you've figured it out, but you can't approach with jab.... it's good to stop their approach and to get control of someone you're comboing to set up a finisher or continue the combo. use lasers, and aerials when they try to break through or if they leave an opening. Ballin said be wary of aerials vs someone like DK at low percents because if you hit dk early he will grab you and **** your **** up. doesn't mean you can't use aerials, just... be careful.

 

[ballin4life]

Cobra, sorry for being unclear. I meant that you shouldn't be trying to jab as an approach since it doesn't have good range. It should definitely be used as a combo move and as a grab interrupt (although Yoshi is not going to be trying to grab you so that advice is pretty irrelevant against Yoshi)

Here's the flowchart:
laser until they are at a decent percent (depends on opponent's weight) -> approach with aerials / use laser or jab or utilt to counter their approaches -> combo -> death -> repeat.

 

[Mahie]

I mentioned standing in my post and aa talked about double jabbing

lol

I checked again and I don't see anything about standing.

lol

 

[The Star King]

"I doubt there's a distance that standing AND dashing AND walking won't work."

 

[Mahie]

Oh, its my bad then. I genuinely didn't see it for some reason.

 

[Han Solo]

How good is Fox's shine? Too good or not good enough?

 

[Froski]

Definitely not good enough brah.

 

[The Real Sykes]

Definitely gay enough

 

[The Star King]

Just right.

 

[Han Solo]

When you're DI'ing Pikachu's fair in the same direction Pikachu is facing, do you have enough time to jab, grab, etc. before the rat can do anything? Like in this video kinda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4Q9Rg0-RHjg#t=22s

I don't know if Boom DI's that, but you can see Isai's shield come out. Basically, what's the best option for DI'ing pikachu's fair? Usually I just DI up or towards the rat and mash a c-button to jump out of there. If I can get a jab in though by DI'ing away from the rat, then that's a pretty good mixup I think.

 

[ballin4life]

yeah jab grab works pretty well IMO to get out of pika fair. sometimes you don't even have to DI really

 

[mikeduncan23]

When you're DI'ing Pikachu's fair in the same direction Pikachu is facing, do you have enough time to jab, grab, etc. before the rat can do anything? Like in this video kinda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4Q9Rg0-RHjg#t=22s

I don't know if Boom DI's that, but you can see Isai's shield come out. Basically, what's the best option for DI'ing pikachu's fair? Usually I just DI up or towards the rat and mash a c-button to jump out of there. If I can get a jab in though by DI'ing away from the rat, then that's a pretty good mixup I think.

As a pikachu player, I tend to have most trouble when people DI up and opposite direction of pika's fair. Generally I try to zcancel uptilt but a good DI will escape that

 

[Han Solo]

So I'm practicing some shine stuff, and I don't know if I'm going crazy or not but it seems like there's a period of time where Fox can't do anything after he hits someone with a shine. I don't know the exact number of frames, but it's a very, very short amount of time.

When I'm spamming tech skill by myself, I can get Shine upsmashes out consistently, but when I'm practicing on a computer, they just won't come out. So, I tried delaying the upsmash just a bit, and it would come out (but of course I would miss the computer with the upsmash). Same with shine-jab.

 

[The Star King]

Hit lag

 

[Battlecow]

^^that

also happens on shields

 

[Han Solo]

Well, I guess I can say goodbye to trying to shine-upsmash everyone.