Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[The Star King]

Why? Just try not to get too used to the "empty" timing. If you can do shine shieldbreaks you can do shine-upsmashes (are we talking dash usmashes or standing ones? but it doesn't matter, either way what I said stands true).

 

[Han Solo]

Well it would be hard enough to pull off without the "dead timing", but since that's there, anyone who you shine will be too far away for the upsmash to connect except maybe DK. I'll still test it out.

 

[Battlecow]

shine-usmash is definitely possible, I've seen it in combo vids and stuff

really really hard though

but that goes without saying

 

[ballin4life]

Well it would be hard enough to pull off without the "dead timing", but since that's there, anyone who you shine will be too far away for the upsmash to connect except maybe DK. I'll still test it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0moaio_8lI
(have to plug my videos)
see also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxNPN6uOUA

Anyway it's pretty easy on DK and definitely possible on Falcon and Mario. Shine -> dash usmash helps on Mario/floatier characters. I haven't tried on too many characters, but I'd assume it is possible on everyone but pika/kirby/jiggs/ness (not as sure about these 4).

Fun Fact? 1: I think on DK you can do double shine -> usmash
Fun Fact? 2: You can do shine -> any Fox A-move given the right circumstances (except maybe fsmash, i forget whether I got shine fsmash to work on DK.

also just to be clear i'm not talking about shine -> wall bounce -> a-move. i know some of you (sk) were thinking of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnepeKVzWZk&t=2m45s)

 

[The Star King]

wtf are you talking about I wasn't thinking of that. Dunnno why you think I was.

@Han Solo no, you can do it on most people. Don't forget that the victim is stunned in place for a few frames (DI frames) before flying away, so that kind of compensates for hitlag. If anything hitlag makes it easier.

Do it like in ballin's second link, not his first. It's way easier with that method.

 

[ballin4life]

if i don't include that disclaimer at the bottom I can see you rushing in here to post "lol shine -> anything is EZ" and then linking the shine off the wall combo

 

[The Star King]

I wouldn't do that >_> that's something, uh, clubba would do

 

[SheerMadness]

Ballin's 2nd link isn't a shine upsmash. It's a shine dash upsmash.

His 1st link is a real shine upsmash.

Just sayin Noob King, if he wants to do a real shine upsmash he needs to follow the 1st link.

 

[The Star King]

That post is just dumb.

 

[SheerMadness]

Your post is dumb. He was asking about shine upsmashes, so we should help him with the real thing. Not shine dash upsmashes.

It would be like a melee fox player asking for help shine upsmashing and then Noob King coming along and telling him to shine wavedash upsmash instead.

EDIT: I bet we both get infracted for saying "dumb" lol.

 

[clubbadubba]

I wouldn't do that >_> that's something, uh, clubba would do

why would i do that? and even if i did, i doubt i could connect shine to every move, i'm so bad at that kind of stuff.

 

[The Star King]

IDK, I was just saying you would because ballin said I would. Just passing it along. Now it's your turn.

Sheer you're dumb. Nobody says shine wavedash upsmash either. They say waveshine. And anyways that's wavedashing. Nobody ever includes dashing. Like if they say something like "Fox can Fair -> USmash Luigi easily", it's understood and they don't need to explicitly say "Fair -> Dash USmash". Get outta here weirdo

 

[SheerMadness]

So you're not arguing my point, just how I said it.

Looks like I win.

 

[The Star King]

Are you illiterate?

 

[SheerMadness]

Are you?

I can't even comprehend how you're trying to argue that shine upsmash is the same thing as shine - dash - upsmash.

The kid wants to shine into an immediate upsmash. Like he sees in melee. Not dash in between.

 

[Battlecow]

IDK I think shine->dash->usmash counts as a shine->usmash. Han's not a melee player, I don't think he wants to do anything "like he sees in melee," he just wants to do cool 64 stuff. shine->usmash is cool even with a dash.

 

[clubbadubba]

IDK, I was just saying you would because ballin said I would. Just passing it along. Now it's your turn.

oh, well that's something star king would say then.

also why is this argument even happening? gonna go read jeff the killer's thread now, SO PUMPED FOR ENTERTAINMENT!

 

[Yobolight]

Can I get some starter tips with Fox?
I have no idea how to play with him compared to every other character and I was wondering if I could get some tips.

 

[Han Solo]

Can I get some starter tips with Fox?
I have no idea how to play with him compared to every other character and I was wondering if I could get some tips.

1. Learn SHDL and SHL. Laser is probably Fox's most important move. Whenever you fire it, you keep pressure on while being safe.

2. Upsmash is Fox's best finisher IMO. Lots of things combo into it, and in my experience it's basically the only way to kill Pikachu.

3. Learn how to pivot if you haven't already. It's great for spacing. I think Fox's pivot is almost as good as Falcon's.

4. Do not utilt on shield if the opponent is facing you (easy shield-grab for them). Otherwise, utilt is great for juggling, but its hitbox is pretty small.

5. Fox's jab is probably one of the best moves in the game. Its best use is for popping people up to lead into an upsmash kill. I also use it to stop opponents from rushing in for a grab, and it's okay for shield pressure.

6. Fox's tail is pretty good too. It leads into combos at 0%. It's also a pretty good edgeguard for characters recovering from below.

7. Don't rely on Fox's grab. It's awful and frustrating. Despite that, it's still a good idea to grab a shielding opponent while they're in shieldstun. Just don't be surprised when you whiff a grab.

8. Fox's aerials are great for combos (uair juggling), but I feel like they're not ideal for approaching. Too many times have I been caught in a Falcon's upsmash or Pika's/Yoshi's/Ness's/Kirby's utilt from approaching from above. Although, approaches are very situational.

9. Fox is one of the easiest characters to gimp. It's almost always a good idea to recover high and then as someone on this board put it best:
"lol where am I gonna fall?"

Once you've got those down-pat:
10. Learn how to shine cancel and be like me and spam shine like there's no tomorrow. (don't do this)
11. Teleport upsmash is sooooooo sexy.


Also, if you have any questions about Fox in any situation, I'd love to answer. I love talking about Fox.

 

[Battlecow]

7. Don't rely on Fox's grab. It's awful and frustrating. Despite that, it's still a good idea to grab a shielding opponent while they're in shieldstun. Just don't be surprised when you whiff a grab.

8. Fox's aerials are great for combos (uair juggling), but I feel like they're not ideal for approaching. Too many times have I been caught in a Falcon's upsmash or Pika's/Yoshi's/Ness's/Kirby's utilt from approaching from above. Although, approaches are very situational.
.

Instead of treating the grab as a hit or miss thing that may or may not work and avoiding it, learn when it works and when it doesn't (i.e. try to get a handle on where the hole is) and then abuse its working bits. Lots of good foxes grab constantly.

You gotta approach somehow unless you're playing on hyrule. Fox has good approach options, but yeah it goes without saying that you shouldn't do dumb aerials on shield or above people's heads or whatever.

 

[SheerMadness]

Grabs are good. I grab battle cattle all the time.

Watch matches of good foxes and try to emulate what they do. That's the best plan for any character really (and then practice those strategies obviously).

BTW I'd still dominate your Ness Yobo. Sorry, I still enjoy trash talking the new guys.

 

[Battlecow]

sheer does grab me all the time as fox

he never wins games

but he does grab me

 

[SheerMadness]

I go no lasers vs battle cattle's pika on dreamland and still win.

Grabs are good even without lasers.

 

[Battlecow]

MM me sheer

no lasers on dreamland

I'll give you 2:1

 

[SheerMadness]

If we ever play on console u got it.

 

[B Link]

Hmm pure craziness' no laser fox v. combat ungulate's pika on DL...

I'm leaning towards combat ungulate here

Take your bets

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Lol @ Grabbing not being important in Fox's metagame. I grab all the time and I'm confident enough in my skills to keep players off the stage. Both of his grabs are strong and I'll definitely go for the grab at higher percents. You should learn to use it in mediation however, don't always think the grab is going to work.

Risk/Reward.

 

[kys]

One of the things I would revise (minor semantics) in Solo's breakdown is that jab is great for shield pressure. It's second best after Kirby's utilt, and I would argue that it actually leads to more KO opportunities than Kirby's utilt unless the utilt yields a shieldbreak.

Mix in lasers with your approach. Lasers really are broken. Honestly, if you get good at lasers and grabs, you could beat a lot of people online using those two moves almost exclusively.

 

[Battlecow]

Come to apex Sheerscaredofbattlecowness.

 

[SheerMadness]

If only plane tickets and entry were free then it would be an easy choice.

I've played no lasers enough vs cattle's pika on dreamland to know I'd have a solid chance to take a set from him. Not a guarantee or anything, but a solid chance if my fox was on point.

Kid never approaches. So I have a limitless amount of time to figure out how to outsmart him in my approach.

 

[Battlecow]

lololololol

You know I'll MM your laser fox too, right sheer?

The nice thing about sheer's fox is that he genuinely believes he has a chance to win against me with it. So while in most cases "MM me" here would mean "Shut the **** up, we both know you have no shot and I'm willing to prove it, are you?" here I'm genuinely hoping that he's dumb enough to try it someday

And sheer-o-vision is lulzy. I approach ten times as much as you do in every matchup.

 

[SheerMadness]

Like I said if we ever play on console it's on.

You can pretend like my no laser fox doesn't beat you, on smashboards (understandable for battle cattle's ego). But we both know it actually does. It's even 3+ stocked you a couple times. And that's my 4 frame no laser fox vs ur 1 frame pikachu on dreamland lolol. Pwn.

Oh b-cattle, what would I do without you. No one else is nearly as fun to trash talk.

Plus last time we played I pointed out that I was the one doing all the approaching, it was hurting you, and you agreed. Although that was Yoshi/Pika I think.

 

[prisonchild]

if you have enough time to approach at your leisure then it gives you the advantage because you can pick the best spots/times, it's when you're rushed to approach that it becomes an advantage to the other person.

with that being said yobo, get real good with those lasers and force them to approach before they want to.

 

[Battlecow]

your laser fox took maybe 1 of 5 from me last sesh

your no laser fox has won one, ever

 

[TANK64]

hmm now I want to play Cattle on console. Seems he's gotten PRO as ****.

 

[ballin4life]

One of the things I would revise (minor semantics) in Solo's breakdown is that jab is great for shield pressure. It's second best after Kirby's utilt, and I would argue that it actually leads to more KO opportunities than Kirby's utilt unless the utilt yields a shieldbreak.

WTF please teach me how to shield pressure with Fox's jab ... that never ever works in my experience.

hmm now I want to play Cattle on console. Seems he's gotten PRO as ****.

who cares how PRO bcow is ... playing him on console is really all about meeting the great battlecow in person.

 

[ciaza]

pivot jab as fox

most crappy player spam shield grab and then you can punish

 

[ballin4life]

But you can just roll out of that, right?

 

[Han Solo]

Yup. If you time it right though, when they try and shield grab, you'll jab them. It looks awesome against Pikachu.

 

[ciaza]

but we all know rolling is easily punishable, especially when they do it right next to you.

smart players generally just nair oos or something though