Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[TANK64]

WTF please teach me how to shield pressure with Fox's jab ... that never ever works in my experience.

Hmm, I've heard you say this before, but it always works in my experience. I just spam **** on people shields and get away with it. Guess the peeps I play are doing it wrong, but in all honestly most of foxes **** is like a frame trap on everyone lol, so you don't get punished (obv fox dittos beware of shine, frame 1 too good). Most of the time though, you should be straight, especially behind them. Shine>jab>grab/dtilt/whatever.

also DK is dangerous. His grab/upB is too good.

who cares how PRO bcow is ... playing him on console is really all about meeting the great battlecow in person.

lmao dude, I swear I had a dream last night that I met Cattle irl. His voice was really deep and not what I expected, and it weirded me out so I wanted to leave lol.

Spoiler

It was a dream I was at Apex btw, not just about Battlecow lol.

Spoiler

/Still slightly creepy

 

[Han Solo]

Yeah, if you're behind someone while they're shielding, you might as well keep jabbing. In the best case, you get a jab and grab in. In the worst case, they roll away and if you read it, you can still get a grab in.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I disagree. I think it's better to opt for a grab since they can do anything oos, unless it's...link.

 

[asianaussie]

link's oos options make me cry, especially when im shielding because i missed my d-air cancel

 

[ballin4life]

Hmm, I've heard you say this before, but it always works in my experience. I just spam **** on people shields and get away with it. Guess the peeps I play are doing it wrong, but in all honestly most of foxes **** is like a frame trap on everyone lol, so you don't get punished (obv fox dittos beware of shine, frame 1 too good). Most of the time though, you should be straight, especially behind them. Shine>jab>grab/dtilt/whatever.

also DK is dangerous. His grab/upB is too good.

I still don't get it. I'm pretty sure I get shield grabbed too when I try to jab on shield lol. Obv being behind them is better.

 

[SheerMadness]

I'm fairly certain all of you are underestimating Fox's jab range (and other char's grab ranges).

I jab shields all the time without getting punished.

Vs tall characters I jab them their shield, jump back and low laser their shield, take a step or so forward and jab their shield again. If I keep the proper range I have yet to have anyone shield grab me out of it. They can escape it by jumping or w/e but not by shield grabbing.

I also jab/f-tilt/jab/f-tilt shields which works with the proper spacing and vs certain characters. I do it a lot of Pika (who has the biggest grab range I think) so I'm pretty sure it works vs almost everyone.

Looks like you ppl need to work on your jab spacing.

 

[ballin4life]

so it's spacing that is the issue? i suppose being farther out also makes your jab more meaty

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Jabbing is wonderful shield pressure but I agree with Boom and think you should opt for the grab instead. Am I the only person who juggles with stick jump uairs? They work really efficient.

 

[RickySSB]

Talking about Fox, I'm using Utilt + Shine ,since I saw it on a TANK match. It work better.

 

[ballin4life]

utilt + shine for what?

 

[TANK64]

/Wut

against shield? or for comboing?

Either way if TANK did it, it MUST have been a great idea/best option

EDIT: @Ballin', I never come across a problem really unless it's DK, and I don't play Pikas often lol.

@Sheer, nice explanation.

 

[Mahie]

Fox really shines when he's right outside of grab range, poking at the opponent and getting ready to interceipt whatever they'll do. A good mix of laser / tilts / jab is usually enough to remain safe and eventually force something out.

That being said this is greedy and just a grab usually does the work, depending on the MU you might want to just go for it unless it's Samus or Link or something.

 

[The Star King]

Going for a grab immediately after a dtilt or jab works on everyone but Boomfan

ballin if you just jab a shield repeatedly you cannot be shieldgrabbed

 

[ballin4life]

ballin if you just jab a shield repeatedly you cannot be shieldgrabbed

so do I just have horrible timing? Because it seems to happen to me a lot

 

[Han Solo]

so do I just have horrible timing? Because it seems to happen to me a lot

Yeah, it happens to me a lot too. I think the timing is just razor thin. Press A too fast and you get the flurry. Press it too slow, they'll shield grab you. That's why I stick to shines.

 

[ballin4life]

Yeah, it happens to me a lot too. I think the timing is just razor thin. Press A too fast and you get the flurry. Press it too slow, they'll shield grab you. That's why I stick to shines.

because those don't take difficult timing at all

 

[The Star King]

^yeah I lolwut'd when I got to the last sentence

maybe you can grab if it's stale?

EDIT: wait nvm it doesn't stale, YOU JUST SUCK BALLIN

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

you can always grab or w/e after jabs wtf

 

[The Star King]

funny coming from you

because when I try to grab you YOU GRAB ME

but yeah it works vs everyone else

 

[ballin4life]

even the CPU can get out easily when I jab jab on shield

 

[B Link]

Why do I never land this jab grab on shields

 

[prisonchild]

i've always admired good foxes, but never really taken it upon myself to practise with him. that's changed now, and i've already gotten a lot better (still a long way to go though). i've watched videos of isai, ballin, alvin and maltfox (lol). are there any other foxes in particular i should watch? preferably with a different style.


also, is shine > jab just jabbing ASAP after the shine before your opponent gets out of reach?

 

[Battlecow]

you gotta JC the shine of course

 

[The Star King]

it's not ASAP, if you press a too early it will not come out due to hitlag. but it's quick after yeah

 

[ballin4life]

i've always admired good foxes, but never really taken it upon myself to practise with him. that's changed now, and i've already gotten a lot better (still a long way to go though). i've watched videos of isai, ballin, alvin and maltfox (lol). are there any other foxes in particular i should watch? preferably with a different style.

so proud to be on this list

 

[prisonchild]

you gotta JC the shine of course

yeah i do that already, never been able to do anything after it except dash though :/

it's not ASAP, if you press a too early it will not come out due to hitlag. but it's quick after yeah

alright i've only tried like five times in training mode, i guess i'll go back there til i get the timing down

so proud to be on this list

you have a nice fox


thanks for the help. if anyone knows any other good foxes to watch then lmk

 

[The Star King]

keep in mind that the timing is different between hitting an opponent and not hitting one (again, due to hitlag), so you might want to avoid practicing "empty" ones. Probably should have mentioned that in the post before sorry

 

[B Link]

i've always admired good foxes, but never really taken it upon myself to practise with him. that's changed now, and i've already gotten a lot better (still a long way to go though). i've watched videos of isai, ballin, alvin and maltfox (lol). are there any other foxes in particular i should watch? preferably with a different style.

superboom, jaimehr, sensei...

 

[Yobolight]

Is Maltfox TAS?

 

[Han Solo]

Some people think so. Some people don't.

 

[Battlecow]

He's probably not

honestly I think I got a bit carried away back in the day when I was arguing otherwise, antdgar being a weird person made things seem... off.

they do play HELLA weird though. Lots of jank.

 

[Yobolight]

He's probably not

honestly I think I got a bit carried away back in the day when I was arguing otherwise, antdgar being a weird person made things seem... off.

they do play HELLA weird though. Lots of jank.

They almost never drop combos even when they take them beyond kill percentages, and they always read tech chases. It doesn't look legit to me, but maybe they just have each other so well downloaded that the techs are predictable.

 

[prisonchild]

how can maltfox be tas if he's playing a person?

 

[Yobolight]

how can maltfox be tas if he's playing a person?

It is all TAS made to look like it is really high level play when in reality it is staged.

 

[B Link]

It's clearly TAS to me. I used to play around with savestates and frame by frame play -- suffice to say, a lot of the movements and techniques done in those vids mimic how some of my TAS 1v1 experiments looked like. Basically you can tell when someone is just messing and playing around with TAS, trying to do cool stuff.

It sounds like this is merely coming from my intuition but maybe if I feel like it later I can point out specific parts that just clearly show it's TAS.

 

[RickySSB]

Isn't TAS to me.

 

[Battlecow]

See I keep swinging back and forth. It's like, all these things make it seem like it's TAS. But who the **** would want to TAS that? But antdgar is weird.

I think it could be explained by them playing to entertain rather than to win? Maybe?

Back in the day I was convinced it wasn't

then I was convinced it was

now I'm leaning towards it not being, just because I don't think anyone wants to spend the time to TAS 40 matches or whatever of weird play.

but the way swebits posted really made me think that it wasn't on the up and up. Discovering yoshi's "Invincibility skill" and doing gimmicks with it... uuuuuh I'M SO TORN

 

[The Star King]

Spending hours TASing to create only decent matches to fool the community at 0 personal profit makes no sense

That to me is a lot stronger then people thinking it looks weird. Human intuition shouldn't be trusted up against logic.

 

[asianaussie]

nah man you're forgetting about how determinism is clearly false and logic can't be trusted

more to the point, people often do very silly, inexplicable things, and you can't apply your own logic to others so readily

 

[prisonchild]

the only thing i found a little odd is how they rarely di out of combos (or even try) but have exceptional ledge di.



although i think it is unlikely that someone created three different playing styles and incorporated human-like mistakes into their TAS project, then submitted it under an alias.