Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[B Link]

See I keep swinging back and forth. It's like, all these things make it seem like it's TAS. But who the **** would want to TAS that? But antdgar is weird.

I think it could be explained by them playing to entertain rather than to win? Maybe?

Back in the day I was convinced it wasn't

then I was convinced it was

now I'm leaning towards it not being, just because I don't think anyone wants to spend the time to TAS 40 matches or whatever of weird play.
TORN

It's not that hard to do. The matches aren't perfect TAS runs or anything. I could do several dozens of matches in probably like a week or a couple of weeks if I really cared about it. AntD did care about it. He has posted many, many, many TAS vids that take a lot of work. 155 in fact: http://www.youtube.com/user/antdgar?feature=results_main

Why would he do it? The dude does a lot of weird stuff with ssb. He's even moved on to doing stuff with melee and brawl. It could be for entertainment purposes, experimenting etc.

I'm 100% certain that it's TAS. It's kinda disappointing that people don't see this, so I'll provide some specifics...

ANTD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5H7MQs2BCM&feature=plcp#t=1m52s

generic TAS link combo

JPLEAL10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLRzDQo4BPg#t=22s
same generic TAS link combo

Yes this could be done in real matches but, from my personal TAS experience, this is one of the common, slightly more impressive ones that I came up with when experimenting with link combos. It's for show. You won't see the forward facing bair land often (if at all???) in real matches because it is a highly convenient setup.

Unrealistic Tech Chases

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwGWPPQc0wg&feature=plcp#t=3m0s

8 tech predictions? Lol. 8 tech chases could happen in a real match, MAYBE, but not with sh-mario uairs like this. Please link me 1 vid of a real match that shows anything similar. You won’t find one cuz this **** only happens in the TAS world, for entertainment purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2hlCW-o3c&feature=plcp#t=1m42s

More stupid tech chases LOL – please show me a real match vid of a link tech chasing a Kirby like this on dl…please.

Uh DI?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcwgQZF9D6g&feature=plcp#t=1m28s

Nice DI, swebits! Clearly you know that you should press a direction when u get hit (i.e. DI)…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmfiTtTHVMU&feature=plcp#t=15s

wait wut? how were u ledge di’ing like a pro when u don’t di at all on a pika utilt combo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYzce3XN3Ig&feature=plcp#t=28s
no di at all? What happened to that amazing ledge di?

More like Antd’s “swebits” character Dis whenever the TASer feels like making him DI…

There's probably a bunch more but I'm too lazy to find more examples. Maybe I might do more if people still need more convincing.

 

[clubbadubba]

I'm with Blink on this one. Is it unlikely that a TASer would make a bunch of TAS videos and try to fool people that they were real? Maybe a little bit, but honestly sounds like a fun challenge if I were a TASer.

What I would find more unlikely is if there were 3 smashers that were really good, took the time to post good quality videos of them playing on youtube, but not reach out to the community. Not a single attempt to meet up with other Europeans or try to get online working? Smashers not looking to smash seems more unlikely than a TASer... TASing.

 

[Han Solo]

Has Sangoku been around? We need him to test out this jab stuff on shield. I want to know specifically on Pika's shield because it seems like Pika always grabs me after I do two jabs.

 

[Battlecow]

B link has me like 60% convinced now

would be like 80% if he had used timestamps

I like how SK thinks that "No one would use their time that way" is "logic" but "humans don't play like that" is somehow more speculative.

 

[Yobolight]

http://youtu.be/ZXCzQoc-6FE?t=2m51s

This is where they jumped the shark for me, the jab tech chases and single hit uair strings just cannot be believed.

The whole video is fairly incriminating though. The "mess ups" are ridiculously fake.

 

[Battlecow]

single hit uair strings are doable

I'm not totally sure that the techchases couldn't just be the result of an inbred playstyle

 

[Yobolight]

Can anyone tell if these are on an emulator?
If so I am 100% sure they are fake.

Edit: @Battlecow yeah I know they are doable, but they aren't something people actually do.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, they're done on emulator

that's always been another of the big arguments towards their fakeness

quick recap of other notable ones: They claimed to be swedish but did not respond to questions/greetings in swedish, only antdgar (a noted TAS'er) has ever "met" them, they seemed at times to be overly familiar with community mores for people with supposedly no contact with the community (i.e. never demonstrating any combo DI even against pika utilts but citing falcon's uair chains as an example of why they never DI'd) playing on emulator but refusing to play online because it "felt funny," disappearing into the night never to be seen again.

That could all be explained away by strange, antisocial swedish people playing to entertain rather than to win though. Could be.

 

[Yobolight]

Doesn't that settle it?

How the hell do you play on emulator and not online?

 

[B Link]

Yeah, they're done on emulator

that's always been another of the big arguments towards their fakeness

quick recap of other notable ones: They claimed to be swedish but did not respond to questions/greetings in swedish, only antdgar (a noted TAS'er) has ever "met" them, they seemed at times to be overly familiar with community mores for people with supposedly no contact with the community (i.e. never demonstrating any combo DI even against pika utilts but citing falcon's uair chains as an example of why they never DI'd) playing on emulator but refusing to play online because it "felt funny," disappearing into the night never to be seen again.

That could all be explained away by strange, antisocial swedish people playing to entertain rather than to win though. Could be.

I'm not convinced by the non-TAS arguments. It seems like we have to keep adding more and more unusual facts to make the story work.

- they just happen to be antisocial
- they just happen to not like going on msn
- they just happen to not like playing online but are fine with emulator
- they just happen to not like DIing hits but they just happen to like DIing into the ledge when they're going to die anyway because that's swebit's "playstyle"
- they just happen to enjoy poor tech-ing and poor DI so that the combo can continue because they just happen to have wanted to entertain us, rather than play to win, because that's not unusual at all! I can think of 100 players off the top of my head who record matches and upload them with exactly this intent >_> Not.
- they just happen to have never played anyone else except ANT-D and their own, closely knit group, and no one else has ever met them IRL, or talked to them via chat
- Ant-d just happens to not be able to provide any proof of their existence

Sounds like a lie where a person has to keep adding more lies to make their story work >_>

 

[prisonchild]

all i know is maltfox never lost swebits or morgen. and i know that this would be funny if was confirmed tas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XqI172ENzI . note the nice di at 2:14

 

[ballin4life]

nah man you're forgetting about how determinism is clearly false and logic can't be trusted

more to the point, people often do very silly, inexplicable things, and you can't apply your own logic to others so readily

lol at how you tried to work in determinism

Yeah, they're done on emulator

that's always been another of the big arguments towards their fakeness

quick recap of other notable ones: They claimed to be swedish but did not respond to questions/greetings in swedish, only antdgar (a noted TAS'er) has ever "met" them, they seemed at times to be overly familiar with community mores for people with supposedly no contact with the community (i.e. never demonstrating any combo DI even against pika utilts but citing falcon's uair chains as an example of why they never DI'd) playing on emulator but refusing to play online because it "felt funny," disappearing into the night never to be seen again.

That could all be explained away by strange, antisocial swedish people playing to entertain rather than to win though. Could be.

hmm some good points in here. also if you have no contact with any community and don't want to join any community then why would you play to entertain and make all these videos?

i will say i'm still pretty hung up on the "who the **** would bother to do all that" argument

Congrats to Ant-d for fooling so many people. MATTS and serge ain't got nothing on this troll.

heh

 

[B Link]

I kinda had to pee really badly when I made that comment. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call him a troll now that I think about it. Anyway...
...

"Who would bother to do all that?"

Well, people pretending to be other people is very common, particularly in this forum section. So making a new account and posting is ez business.

As for the vids, like I said, a lot of those vids were deemed entertaining. It's not like Ant-D uploaded a bunch of boring average matches (for the time they were uploaded). Pretty much all of those vids had something entertaining in them.

If they were for entertainment purposes, Ant-D's motivation would be that he wanted to entertain the community. He has 155 other vids on his account where he does just that. Another (side) motivation would be he wanted to test his ability to make it look like two distinct players were really playing, even though he was the one controlling both players. Like clubba said, that would actually make for an interesting and fun goal.

Why make posts under the name "swebits"? Because that assists in the goal of trying to make it look like the players in his vid really are real life people. Perhaps he went a bit too far, but it does add a convincing twist to it, and this is one of the major reasons why people actually believe that those players in the matches were real.

Ironically, no one signed up to post here (or on youtube) as maltfox or morgen. Could Ant-D have pulled off another 2 distinct identities? Probably not, which explains why we never heard anything from them. Another obvious thing is I doubt Ant-D would want to risk having 4 usernames on smashboards with the same ip >_>

Another interesting fact is that Ant-D and swebits and whoever coincidentally stopped making ssb64 vids at around the same time. This doesn't really prove anything but it is "SO CONVENIENT" - JaimeHR

 

[Battlecow]

mods can check IP's

be interesting to see whether swebits and antD had the same one

I doubt that a tech-savvy kid like him would be dumb enough to not proxy tho

 

[B Link]

inb4 THEY WERE SHARING THE SAME COMPUTER TO POST

jk

 

[clubbadubba]

^^LOL same computer. Good one

Doesn't that settle it?

How the hell do you play on emulator and not online?

don't do "start net play" and start emulation. You just have to set up the controls for all players, and maybe some other tech savvy **** I don't deal with

 

[The Star King]

I played offline emulator against A$ once

 

[SheerMadness]

^^ Star King = antd???

??
?
?
?

 

[clubbadubba]

Well with out offline emulation out in the open, I guess the cats out of the bag guys. Me, Star King, and A$ are the swedish trio! Can you guess which alter ego each of us is?

 

[rpotts]

I used to play offline emulator against one of my melee bros cause he liked to use a GC troller for 64, and I'd use a 64 troller. We both have adapters so it was the only feasible way to play 64 using our most comfortable control setups. Getting everything to work control-wise was difficult; I believe we had to use Nrage for the GC controller and the default controller plugin for my 64 troller, or vice versa idk. Honestly, a good computer can run offline smash better than a 64, especially for teams/FFA or items matches on Saffron, lol. Good times.

 

[B Link]

SSB64 DISCUSSION SECTION

WHERE fox character discussion threads turning into Ant-d conspiracy threads turning into reminiscences of the ol' offline emulator days with a gc controller HAPPENS

 

[The Star King]

Yep

I blame Yobo

on topic: fawks is pretty gud and stuff. he has a friggin gun u can't argue with that

 

[ballin4life]

Well with out offline emulation out in the open, I guess the cats out of the bag guys. Me, Star King, and A$ are the swedish trio! Can you guess which alter ego each of us is?

you're swebits, SK is maltfox, and A$ is Morgen. too easy.

on topic: fawks is pretty gud and stuff. he has a friggin gun u can't argue with that

or as a great smash philosopher once put it:
"fox don't need mindgames; that *****'s got a gun"

 

[asianaussie]

falcon has a gun too

but **** guns, my punches hit like meteors

 

[rjgbadger]

serious talk tho
mainly in the FOX DITTO
im playing the japan smash, and i noticed his dtilt is significantly weaker. it forces a tech at much higher percents, leading to many more techchase opportunities.

i guess my question is: what to techchase with? i normally go for just a grab but if they tech away sometimes i go for the teleport usmash.

another question:since fox has those invinsibility frames on his up B how do i gimp him?
in US i usually can throw a fox offstage, then gimp him with several (sometimes like 8-10) down angled ftilts

 

[Han Solo]

Grab is Fox's best option when dealing with a tech-chase probably. I'll shine though. I don't know how different Japanese firefox is to American firefox, but in American, I'm pretty sure every move Fox has beats a recovering Fox.

 

[Yobolight]

Grab is Fox's best option when dealing with a tech-chase probably. I'll shine though. I don't know how different Japanese firefox is to American firefox, but in American, I'm pretty sure every move Fox has beats a recovering Fox.

Invincibility frames.

 

[rjgbadger]

lmao i forgot about shine i shine a LOT fox v fox. but the shine sends ppl at a faster rate making shine-jab a little more difficult, so i generally insta-dash after the shine and try to follow up. or i shdb

i reeeally like those down angled ftilts to gimp, i love gimping(inner pika)
sometimes even i shine to gimp fox's recovery but those invincibility frames man...

is there an image of (j) fox's upb showing the invincibility?

 

[ballin4life]

shine tech chases are the fox windmill of fury

 

[B Link]

i rarely land those, it just looks like i'm having a shine seizure when I attempt that stuff

 

[The Star King]

it's all about running short hop uair techchases

 

[ballin4life]

So that's why you never post any videos - it would reveal to us all that you're actually maltfox

 

[The Star King]

He does that? I don't actually know.

 

[ballin4life]

It was in the video that B Link posted "proving" that they are TAS ("look at those tech chases! who does that?")

 

[Battlecow]

to be fair

those tech chases were really silly

 

[prisonchild]

to be fair

those tech chases were really silly

silly because he didn't do anything after the uair except wait for another tech chase


those mario tech chases were really wierd, the link ones looked more natural (besides kirby rolling towards link for the grab)

 

[ballin4life]

yeah they were pretty ridiculous, but you know the ridiculous is standard for the mighty STAR KING

 

[B Link]

maltfox is star king, morgen is defend you, and swebits is RbN

 

[The Star King]

silly because he didn't do anything after the uair except wait for another tech chase


those mario tech chases were really wierd, the link ones looked more natural (besides kirby rolling towards link for the grab)

It's called sandbagging (the not doing anything after the uair)

but the perfect tech predictions are unnatural yeah

actually after all my arguing back in the day, I looked at the videos and again and yeah they kind of look TAS to me

not sure if confirmation bias (ok not confirmation because I wasn't arguing the TAS side, but, like, I was looking for TAS and I saw TAS, dunno what to call it)

 

[TANK64]

LMAO. They are definitely TAS. Tru fax.

It's SOO BLOODY OBV lmaaaooo.

It's no use BLink. If they don't see it by now, then idk what to say.

Maltfox would have to show up to Apex to exist IRL.

Antd is legendary troll status.