Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[Sangoku]

Every aerials cancel after a certain time so you don't need to cancel them. Link's uair takes a long time to cancel, so while you would think it's unecessary to cancel, you'll still get the lag. That's how I felt it was any harder than usual. Drills are for me the hardest (especially pika's fair).

On topic, I just made a little video of my fox against a CPU. Nothing exciting, but I'm already happy with this lol. It's uploading, I hope a lot of people will watch.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCuFViy2x4

=D.

 

[ballin4life]

Drills are hardest, then Link's dair.

I definitely hate Link's dair too.


Sangoku - you know you can just stand in front of a CPU and they will always try to roll behind you?

 

[asianaussie]

Drills are so much worse than Link D-Air.

Especially if people DI against a fastfaller's drill (see: Fox) - gotta figure out if you need to turn around, glance to see what's the more appropriate followup, buffer if a tilt/SH U-Air is the appropriate one...adding a cancel in there is actually much harder for me than the rest :|

 

[Sangoku]

Drills are hardest, then Link's dair.

I definitely hate Link's dair too.


Sangoku - you know you can just stand in front of a CPU and they will always try to roll behind you?

Every time I wait in front of the CPU, it would come and dsmash once I'm in the range. =/

 

[Surri-Sama]

Drills are so much worse than Link D-Air.

Especially if people DI against a fastfaller's drill (see: Fox) - gotta figure out if you need to turn around, glance to see what's the more appropriate followup, buffer if a tilt/SH U-Air is the appropriate one...adding a cancel in there is actually much harder for me than the rest :|

I noticed you said "Buffer" and in the Index you actually have said the only way to use a Uair / Utilt without jumping is to buffer. You do know this is not the case on analog right?

You can hold "slightly up" you can do Uairs/Utilt without jumping, and without buffering.

 

[asianaussie]

That section should reference keyboard.

I gave the same advice you just gave me to somebody in another thread just a couple days ago.

 

[ballin4life]

Every time I wait in front of the CPU, it would come and dsmash once I'm in the range. =/

You have to be a little bit closer and he will roll instead of dsmash.

Also just walk up, shield the dsmash, and then move a little more forward and he will roll.

 

[SheerMadness]

Woah really kids?

Nothing in this game is hard to z-cancel. You can spam z as much as you want before you hit the ground...

 

[The Star King]

If I spam z, it uses up brain power and I focus less on reading my opponent or whatever. I'm not even joking.

Every time I wait in front of the CPU, it would come and dsmash once I'm in the range. =/

Use training mode, not Vs mode. Set it to attack while standing near it. It will walk for a bit at first, then roll every time.

 

[ballin4life]

spam z means you won't time your follow up right. if you hit z too many times you shield by accident.

 

[Surri-Sama]

And if you are me and you spam you'd get some lovely random grabs as well

Perfect for playing link...

 

[th3kuzinator]

Surri you spam?

 

[SheerMadness]

You guys are noobs then.

Just hit z twice and you'll never have trouble z-canceling anything again.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Surri you spam?

No i dont, thats the point. Since i use R to cancel if i spammed I'd be seeing a lot more grabs for no reason ( I missed the "you'd" part apparently lol...)

And i have no trouble other then with Links Uair, for god knows what reason really...

 

[RickySSB]

Having tech skill != being good.

people still don't understand this? I don't like things where you can become good simply because of tech skill because tech skill is uninteresting - it's just dull practice. The interesting part of the game is playing against your opponent.


And by the way, if you're losing to "some noob who can only gay you" that person is better than you. Sorry.

Cooooorrect xD

 

[KnitePhox]

I have some techskill with fox but don't like spamming lasers, grabs or being defensive. After reading this thread looks like in order to beat more ppl I have to go gay...boo

 

[th3kuzinator]

Thats the price of being good.

 

[The Star King]

You can be aggressive and still be pretty good. I usually try to be in friendlies, because I have more fun that way. And I still ended up being pretty good.

Just don't be stupid aggressive. Instead of mindlessly attacking them as much as you can, observe your opponent to see how they escape high-pressure situations, punish their habits, control the stage, and cover options to keep them under pressure.

 

[Olikus]

You can be aggressive and still be pretty good. I usually try to be in friendlies, because I have more fun that way. And I still ended up being pretty good.

Just don't be stupid aggressive. Instead of mindlessly attacking them as much as you can, observe your opponent to see how they escape high-pressure situations, punish their habits, control the stage, and cover options to keep them under pressure.

I agree with this. However I still believe that fox gets much better when playing defensive.

 

[The Star King]

I don't disagree.

 

[ciaza]

I don't not undisagree.

.

Speaking of reverse fair I'd like to see more people do it with Fox too.

 

[The Star King]

Fox? Maybe for fanciness points, but couldn't you usually just replace it with bair?

 

[ciaza]

For most cases yeah. I think reverse weak fair does slightly less knockback than bair though.

 

[The Star King]

Just to clarify, you think weak fair has less knockback than weak bair?

 

[ciaza]

No. You didn't say weak bair the first time.

 

[The Star King]

Because you didn't say weak fair the first time.

 

[SSBPete]

I can't quite remember who, but one of the Japanese players uses reverse weak fair really, really well.

 

[ciaza]

Alright my bad. In my op I forgot the "weak."

Sorry.

 

[Dingus]

Im a long time Smash player, but im only recently learning the intricacies of the game and trying to improve. Im having a lot of trouble with my pika matchup. In hyrule if I stick to the middle or right side Im usually at the advantage. I short hop laser decently and I can combo aight on the right side. My opponent has now started camping the left side and Im having lots of trouble. When he hides there I lose all my laser advantage and If I make any mistake while engaging (bad spacing, messed up z-cancel etc) I get grabbed and tossed off the edge. With fox's bad recovery this almost always means a low percentage death. What has worked is just waiting in the middle until a tornado appears on the left side, but if I do this for every life our matches get really dull and take freaking forever. Any suggestions? I also find this match up much harder on a smaller level like dreamland where its much easier to find yourself tossed over the edge.

Are there any common shine spike setups you always use? Im having trouble working that into my game. When do you use shines instead of other attacks on the ground. I see players use this occasionally in videos, but I cant tell if its just for show or if there are scenarios where its optimal.

Thanks

 

[Battlecow]

I'll let the fox players answer most of that, but basically, Hyrule leads to a lot of camping if both people are equally good and determined to win :/

But pika rocks fox's socks on DL, so I guess you're up the creek.

 

[Dingus]

I'll let the fox players answer most of that, but basically, Hyrule leads to a lot of camping if both people are equally good and determined to win :/

But pika rocks fox's socks on DL, so I guess you're up the creek.

Thanks Battlecow for the word of encouragement

Any fox players have answers to the other questions? Especially setups and uses for shine.

 

[dandan]

well, shine has several uses, but you have to be really competent in your shine cancelling, because otherwise, it is really punishable.

the main use is shine out of shield, to be able to escape shield pressure.

other then that, you can always shine dtilt or shine jab to start a combo.
you can also gimp with shines, but that is harder vs pika's recovery, but shining to get pika off the stage can be good.

hope that was enough for you (i am not a fox player btw, but i am a pika one - and fox is my weakest matchup).

 

[tkxxx]

Counter grab for fox?

I recently started playing smash bros with my friends, and we play at the pretty intense pace.
Now one day my friend who was playing kirby garbed my character (Fox) and then my character proceeded to counter grab kirby and kicked him to the other side of the screen.

Was this just a one time deal or a error.
i have not read all the pages in this thread.

 

[asianaussie]

Perhaps you had just grabbed him and thought he had grabbed you.

I'm assuming it was a 1v1.

 

[Sempiternity]

I recently started playing smash bros with my friends, and we play at the pretty intense pace.
Now one day my friend who was playing kirby garbed my character (Fox) and then my character proceeded to counter grab kirby and kicked him to the other side of the screen.

Was this just a one time deal or a error.
i have not read all the pages in this thread.

whoa whoa whoa hold the phone

what kind of clothes did kirby put on fox?

 

[Battlecow]

You've got it all wrong. He's saying that the friend donned the garb of his fox (i.e. took his power).

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I recently started playing smash bros with my friends, and we play at the pretty intense pace.
Now one day my friend who was playing kirby garbed my character (Fox) and then my character proceeded to counter grab kirby and kicked him to the other side of the screen.

Was this just a one time deal or a error.
i have not read all the pages in this thread.

Umh...?
Give us a little more details please.

Did Fox grabbed kirby while still in the kirby's B motion?
After being inside kirby?
or after being thrown out?

 

[Sempiternity]

What I think happened is that both characters were at that awkward distance away from each other when neither can successfully grab unless one leans in to grab, putting his hurtbox within range of the other character for a "counter grab".

This can all happen very quickly, since grabs hitboxes come and go in just a few frames.

 

[Surri-Sama]

yeah grabs are strange, specifically those of chars who try to grab with one hand.

 

[X ta C]

how do you shine jab... im completely lost.. is it even worth it to learn