Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[RickySSB]

Jabbing shields sucks.

 

[jimmyjoe]

Will Mario/DK/Samus' Up + B OOS get you out of the pressure? I'd like to know if the following things can get out of the pressure as well:

-Mario's U-smash
-Mario's U-air (not likely just thinking of it, but it would be nice to know for sure)
-Shield dropping through a platform

Mario's U-air comes out a frame quicker than Kirby Neutral Air so it seems it would work. Just saw that on the frame data chart.. Not sure about the rest

 

[Sangoku]

Sheer: yeah that's pretty much it. In theory, no move can efficiently punish a well spaced jab and Fox has no efficient follow up. Then which party is more likely to make a mistake is beyond my judgement. So I can't say if it's good or bad. One thing is for sure, a non spaced jab is not good.

Kimimaru: I'll test all that when I have more time (this weekend).

Jimmyjoe: You also need to take into account the jumping time and the range of the uair (less important, as it's almost certain it can hit).

 

[Yobolight]

I am trying to pick up Fox as one of my mains within a week and a half (Sweet XII).

Tell me all the hints, tips, tricks, mindgames, general advice, secrets, tactics and strategies that there are. I don't know if I have enough time to do all the work that I need to but I am going to try.

 

[Battlecow]

You don't have enough time

can't learn a character in two weeks. It just cannot be done.

 

[clubbadubba]

If that's all you do for two weeks besides eat and sleep it can be done!

I'd help you but I suck with fox.

 

[Cobrevolution]

we don't need another fox main in this world

 

[SheerMadness]

Get online and start playing Fox every day. You can't just get good by people telling you what to do. It requires a ton of game time.

Emphasis on getting online. Pretty sure you don't play online right Yobo?

Pretty much every top player in North America, aside from possibly Kefit, has spent massive amounts of time improving their game with online play. Even Kefit has played online a little.

 

[Cobrevolution]

in what way am i supposed to be getting better by playing online? not being sarcastic at all, but from a technical standpoint, it seems detrimental. i just find that i play much worse online because of delay - you don't know how many times a game i'll grab on a platform or roll to the side instead of dropping through, or do an usmash/uair instead of utilt, or miss techs/cancels.

is it just learning the matchup game and learning when and how to approach/what clashes with what/etc?

 

[Han Solo]

Laser.

Don't get grabbed.

If you hit a shield with short-hop dair, angle yourself so that you end up behind them instead of in front of them (so that you don't get shield grabbed).

Don't jab shields, unless you're crazy. Don't utilt shields unless you're stupid.

If you play Pikachu on Dreamland, you're a madman (that's my 2nd favorite matchup).

 

[SheerMadness]

Cob, playing online provides you a competitive atmosphere you can get on and practice essentially 24/7. Against all kinds of different play styles, matchups, and skill levels.

I don't know how you can't see why that's beneficial?

Compare that to the 1 or 2 opponents that might be available to play against on console locally. And the fact that you might get to play against them a couple times a week at best and it's pretty obvious why online such an incredible asset.

 

[Cobrevolution]

i understand that it's basically a perpetual practice arena and that i will be exposed to all of those things you mentioned. however, if i cannot perform to the best of my ability because of the innate flaws in the system, i feel that it would be very difficult to improve.

it's a bit of a roadblock to me if i know i'm about to hit a fair fsmash combo but i miss the cancel and lose a stock, whereas if i were playing on console, i'd land it no problem. do you know what i mean?

 

[SheerMadness]

Doesn't matter if you can't perform as well online as console. It's about all the experience and knowledge you gather while playing online.

Even if you played on console with megavolt and weedwack every day of every week, where would that leave you against characters like Yoshi?

 

[Cobrevolution]

you have a good point, and i acknowledge that. i suppose my concern is the reverse, too - getting better online but not playing as well on console because i spent too much time online. i bet i'll be screwing everything up when i come back from spring break this weekend. maybe i can start a cult of smashers who play all the time. sort of like jonestown but without the kool aid.

 

[SheerMadness]

Online to console is a pretty easy transition. I've played ssb64 online 99.9% of the time since 2005 and I still pwn on console. Jaime, Boom, and Isai have all been playing online since 2003/2004 and they still dominate on console.

It's going back to online after a big event like Apex that can be difficult.

But the results speak for themselves in terms of benefits of online play. Look at the top 9 from Apex. Boom, Jaime, and Isai have all been playing online since 2003/2004. Sensei and I started playing around the same time in 2005. Nintendude, Firo, and Ybombb have been playing since atleast 2006-2008. Not positive about the Japanese players but I'm pretty sure they all play online. I know Nangoku does cause there's vids of him in online matches.

Kefit is really the only odd man out. And look at the issues he has vs certain match ups. He didn't beat me once at Apex because he has 0 experience vs solid Yoshi's.

 

[Cobrevolution]

all good points. alright then. i'll stick to babygirl as long as i play online and see where i go.

 

[Yobolight]

@Sheer
I think those players are just good because they have been playing forever, not because they play online.
You could make the argument that playing online is essential to maintain interest for the many years each of them has played.

I wish I could play online but I only have a Mac, am not very computer savy and therefore don't know how to actually do all the downloading stuff.

Also, I decided I wouldn't be able to train Fox in 2 weeks. Just is too much of a time commitment.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

Being a good player is not the result of any particular training method and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not one plays online. Being good at this game is the result of determination, perseverance, and heart. A dedicated player who possesses these qualities will always become great.

Online may be beneficial for some people, but it isn't meant for everyone.
Train in ways you're comfortable with.

 

[jimmyjoe]

Jimmyjoe: You also need to take into account the jumping time and the range of the uair (less important, as it's almost certain it can hit).

Is there any chart with jumping times?? I know I have some issues with this cause when I pick up link and try to hit someone with a rising weak Nair I usually just jump without attacking. I'm guessing I'm pressing A too early.

 

[SheerMadness]

Kero, no one is saying you can't get good without playing online. But you can't deny all the advantages online provides over purely playing on console. And it's not a coincidence the top 9 of Apex was dominated with online players.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

I know, I agree with you. For the majority of people, success will come from playing online > purely console.
I was just trying to say that there is deffinitely a small percent of people who who would perform better solely training on console. And that in the end, if you have the drive to get good, you'll do so regardless of how you train.

 

[Battlecow]

It scares me how good the NY crew could be if they didn't have the worst training methods ever

like Ali if he ate exclusively doritos

 

[KeroKeroppi]

How can you say that when you don't even know our training methods

KeroKeroppi's training method > Everyone else's training methods

 

[Battlecow]

playing level 9's on laggy flatscreens

Pretty sure I just summarized

 

[KeroKeroppi]

lol you got me

but the flat screens don't lag!

 

[Yobolight]

I only play against lvl 1 CPUs because I feel like computers that actually attack throw off my neutral game against humans + bots have a lot of habits that human players don't.

 

[weedwack]

i only play against level 9 computers cause im ****ing hardcore

 

[AtotheZ]

level 9s are 95+% of my training, 4% being a couple friends of mine, and 1% being tourneys, since my main smash buddy moved out to new jersey

but realistically I've only been to one competitive tourney with people who know what they are doing

can't wait to get rekt at sweet

 

[Cobrevolution]

where in nj? he can play with us if he's close

also about computers...well, ask weedwack for verification of this, but i was facing a lvl 9 falcon and he was pulling off these ridiculous uair/nair combos off dreamland's platforms...fsmash killed me...then moments later, knocked me off the ledge, and I **** YOU NOT this ************ TAUNT CANCELLED ME.
****ing dreamland wind pushed him against the edge as he taunted and then he walked away like "yeah, i just did that, ***** ass *****".

my cartridge pcs are more OG than all ya'lls.

 

[weedwack]

whats a ***** *** *****?

 

[ballin4life]

level 9s are the best to play because they always try to roll behind you so it's easy to get them where you want

 

[Battlecow]

lol you got me

but the flat screens don't lag!

dude why do you think it's hard for you to get used to CRTs

 

[AtotheZ]

where in nj? he can play with us if he's close

Lawrenceville I believe

 

[KeroKeroppi]

dude why do you think it's hard for you to get used to CRTs

Because all CRTs lag?

I'm gonna try and pick up a CRT in the next couple of weeks

I think i may have one but it's a lot bigger than the TVs i've seen at tournaments. Is there any simple way of telling if a TV is a CRT?

 

[asianaussie]

it's ****ing heavy and somebody's probably playing melee on it

 

[jimmyjoe]

level 9s are the best to play because they always try to roll behind you so it's easy to get them where you want

well played sir, well played.


Oh and as far as CRTs go-
I'm not being facetious here Kero, but they aren't flat. Identifying them is as simple as that. They use a Cathode Ray Tube, which isn't a flat thing. The aspect ratio will look much more square also because they are 4:3 as opposed to 16:9.
And they can definitely be big, the only reason you've only seen small ones at tourneys is because transporting and carrying large ones is impractical.

 

[Han Solo]

What have you done to my precious Fox Discussion thread? Talk about this stuff elsewhere.

 

[SheerMadness]

Who thinks they can punish my shield jabs?

 

[mixa]

How to continue this standard Fox on Falcon combo? or
How to do a combo 0%–high% on Falcon? (no wall/ceiling please)

I got 2 examples. on both the combo went wrong (even though Boom got the kill)

TANK vs Ballin4Life Friendlies 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mU7XSyakKk&t=3m47s

SuperBoomFan vs JaimeHR APEX 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5EfeCsLyaI&t=5m56s

 

[Sangoku]

Is there any chart with jumping times?? I know I have some issues with this cause when I pick up link and try to hit someone with a rising weak Nair I usually just jump without attacking. I'm guessing I'm pressing A too early.

If you have tried the usual smash index/ my data thread and haven't found, then there's probably none. I could do one sometime, it shouldn't be difficult.