Scinn
The Fluffiest
whats a di btw I dont know most of these things but I am a very good fox player
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Fox Discussion Thread
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NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
goldemblem
Smash Apprentice
Ok, i investigated and it's like you said, you can't DI until ~60%, but i remember watching a video (don't remember where tough >_>) of a Fox using a Shine to escape the Grab and confuse the pikachu, the pikachu then Usmashed (so lol) but i think this was done around 30%, i am not sure but i think the shine is fox's 2nd fastest attack, so i think it might be possible to escape at lower %.
And on other side, the Falco vs Fox matchup, fox has a great disadvantage if he gets chain grabbed,
but i suppose you can out camp him and wait for an opening, also if you manage to get a shine against falco it's pretty much over, altought the same can be said about his Dair. I would say that if falco didn't have the chaingrab it would be 55:45 in fox's favor, but with the chain grab i really belive it's 60:40 in falco's
And on other side, the Falco vs Fox matchup, fox has a great disadvantage if he gets chain grabbed,
but i suppose you can out camp him and wait for an opening, also if you manage to get a shine against falco it's pretty much over, altought the same can be said about his Dair. I would say that if falco didn't have the chaingrab it would be 55:45 in fox's favor, but with the chain grab i really belive it's 60:40 in falco's
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
if you get cg'd you cant at least tech the spike though>.>
Lightning93
Smash Champion
You guys are missing the point Fox can easily run circles around Falco and combo and gimp him like a god. Especially the gimp.
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
Falco is no pushover though.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I never said he wasn't -.-... too many people here think already Falco has a big advantage.
Shisui
Smash Rookie
name a string that fox can do that falco can't do
falco's reflector ftilt and bair are good spacing tools that can be used on Fox, and in Brawl spacing is very important
falco's reflector ftilt and bair are good spacing tools that can be used on Fox, and in Brawl spacing is very important
A6M Zero
Smash Ace
Dash -> utilt x2 -> dthrow
-------------utilt x3 -> usmash
-----------------------jab -> dthrow
-----------------------jab-> fthrow
-------------------------/ \
------------------------/ (Run) Either PWG if expecting shield or dash if you don't,
Drill ------------------ ------------------then return to that place on the string.
If dash, then utilt
once and go for aerial/stoolhop. If grab, then dthrow and
aim to get one more hit during the uncertainty of him being in the air after that string.
Or fthrow again and try to win on the approach while he guesses how to defend.
That's pretty much the formula for racking up damage with strings, and applies to most characters, not just Falco.
Shisui
Smash Rookie
falco can do utilt strings just the same as fox includind dair utilt dash attack utilt
he also can do a in escapable PWG on fox at lower % from a Dthrow instead of doing a Fthrow like fox
having u seen sk92's falco vs lucien's fox?
or a good falco period
he also can do a in escapable PWG on fox at lower % from a Dthrow instead of doing a Fthrow like fox
having u seen sk92's falco vs lucien's fox?
or a good falco period
A6M Zero
Smash Ace
Falco's utilts dont go into an upsmash or a grab, and he can only do it at lower percentages (something that doesn't matter much because he has a chaingrab). Getting upsmashed after the utilts or grabbed is a huge difference.
His PWG on Fox is boosted and 100% unneeded because of his chaingrab, and once again irrelevant both because of his CG and to the discussion, since the the PWG is part of a string, not a string by itself.
Haven't you ever considered thinking a response through?
Or thinking period?
PS: Lucien played awful against SK92, he didn't even seem to know the matchup at all.
His PWG on Fox is boosted and 100% unneeded because of his chaingrab, and once again irrelevant both because of his CG and to the discussion, since the the PWG is part of a string, not a string by itself.
Haven't you ever considered thinking a response through?
Or thinking period?
PS: Lucien played awful against SK92, he didn't even seem to know the matchup at all.
goldemblem
Smash Apprentice
No, but falco has the gatling combo, so a running attack usually means eating a Usmash and a he also has a snakedash, he has the chaingrab and his projectile is better, not to mention his Shine. Fox does not have a matchup as bad as is might seem, but it's still very bad, also the gymping ability falco has on fox is in my opinion a little better than the one fox has over falco, fox can shine spike him and Dair to death falco, but in order to do that falco has to be a little under the stage to force him to Firefox, on the contrary for falco if fox is below the stage he can spike or Bair, and if fox uses his illusion falco can dair or laser, fox can also dair the Falco's illusion but it's harder because it has to be done above the illusion and falco's dair can be done at a short hop and echange hits with the illusion, fox's dair can't do that.
Falco has some nice combos also just like fox, but for example if fox uses a Dair to Utilt combo, if the falco gets a little above the required level to react fox will eat a Dair and then Falco will procet to follow with Uair or nair, so that makes the Dair or Running attack to Utilt a little more dangerous to fox.
As much as i hate falco and like fox, i would rather choose jiggly to face him than fox >_>
That is another thing i don't like, fox is a great character, but when i face a lot of "certain characters" i would rather chose other character to face them, the only characters that I am confident when using fox are Heavy guys (D3, DK, Bowser, Snake) ROB, Oli, Diddy and most from the middle to lower tiers (except luigi) so in my opinion fox is like mario, he is a good character but there are a lot of times when other characters are just better.
But, meh who cares, i still go sometimes against Pikachus, Metas, Warios, Falcos and G&W just for the lolz, and sometimes i manage to get a win
Falco has some nice combos also just like fox, but for example if fox uses a Dair to Utilt combo, if the falco gets a little above the required level to react fox will eat a Dair and then Falco will procet to follow with Uair or nair, so that makes the Dair or Running attack to Utilt a little more dangerous to fox.
As much as i hate falco and like fox, i would rather choose jiggly to face him than fox >_>
That is another thing i don't like, fox is a great character, but when i face a lot of "certain characters" i would rather chose other character to face them, the only characters that I am confident when using fox are Heavy guys (D3, DK, Bowser, Snake) ROB, Oli, Diddy and most from the middle to lower tiers (except luigi) so in my opinion fox is like mario, he is a good character but there are a lot of times when other characters are just better.
But, meh who cares, i still go sometimes against Pikachus, Metas, Warios, Falcos and G&W just for the lolz, and sometimes i manage to get a win
Shisui
Smash Rookie
My point was that fox does not have a combo adavantage over falco
of course i kno about his Chain Grab and how he doesn't need his utilts on Fox, the reason for saying anything about falco's tilts was: read first sentance again
Have u ever thought of comprehending posts?
or rather, comprehending anything at all?
of course i kno about his Chain Grab and how he doesn't need his utilts on Fox, the reason for saying anything about falco's tilts was: read first sentance again
Have u ever thought of comprehending posts?
or rather, comprehending anything at all?
crifer
Smash Lord
sorry man both can rack up damage from 0 to 50 %,
once falco is in the air, he takes 20 % more,
Fox kills much earlier than Falco and has reliable kill options,
Fox punishes and gimps better... Falco has lasers but we have reflector (he too)
Falco has overall more priority than fox, on like almost every move, except upsmash and upair of Fox
IMO 50:50
once falco is in the air, he takes 20 % more,
Fox kills much earlier than Falco and has reliable kill options,
Fox punishes and gimps better... Falco has lasers but we have reflector (he too)
Falco has overall more priority than fox, on like almost every move, except upsmash and upair of Fox
IMO 50:50
Conviction
Human Nature
Why are you guys STILL arguing about Fox vs. Falco? The match-up is 55:45 love it or hate it. If you hate go take it up with the Falco who agreed with us in the match-up discussion. END.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
This is the Fox discussion board Iblis, we still have to answer any questions about Fox when they come up.
And yes crifer neatly pointed out why Falco does not have a great advantage. Most of the good Falcos I play rarely land a spike on me, yet I take a lot of damage from his CG. Then I just build it back up because it's really not that hard at all.
And yes crifer neatly pointed out why Falco does not have a great advantage. Most of the good Falcos I play rarely land a spike on me, yet I take a lot of damage from his CG. Then I just build it back up because it's really not that hard at all.
goldemblem
Smash Apprentice
I disagree with this, when falco enters a reaction range when fox utilt juggles him far enought he can counter with a Dair, fox gets around 30% and falco gets his Dair that i think makes ~13% so it's not that huge of an advantage, on the second part I agree, fox kills better, BUT falco has a better gimping game, Fox has shine, Bair and Nair, Falco has Bair and Dair, but falco's moves have better knockback and are easier to connect, 55:40 or 60:40 in falcos favor.
On other side, how the hell this conversation drifted towards a Fox vs Falco thread >_>
this is fox discussion, so let's discuss only fox
Dxkid
Smash Apprentice
Well i think i got my Fox Bakc :D it took a long a$$ time though T_T
Conviction
Human Nature
I can't believe I'm joining on this but......Fox wins in gimping because of FALCO's horrible recovery. Done.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I tell you discussing Fox's performance within a matchup is general Fox discussion... just saying.
NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
Wat falco doesnt have is the dair spike fox has. theres a little knock back on it but because of falco's horrible recovery u should be be able to edgehog him. 55/45 in falcos favor. its hard for them to land that fsmash or to build up more dmg after that so just play smart and patient
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
Falco can also play smart and patient too, he is a camper afterall. >.>
or just wait till Sakurai interferes then kill Fox.
or just wait till Sakurai interferes then kill Fox.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I hate Sakurai kills, there so unsatisfying, for both the victim and the finisher...
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yeah............ unless that person is running away and needed to die, then Sakurais kills can satisfy
(looks at FFAs at VGC =_=)
(looks at FFAs at VGC =_=)
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Wow how did this thread not get locked? Someone who shall not be named because if you post his name he will lock the thread locked ours a while ago.
NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
quick question wats a sakurai kill?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
@Alex
well its supposed to be discussion about Fox, but we have gotten offtrack lately.
well its supposed to be discussion about Fox, but we have gotten offtrack lately.
oh you know someting like tripping or other BS KOs
NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
ok thanks. but no1s asking questions about fox and stuff so wats there to discuss
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I know but we had one based off a discussion off Jigglypuff and even though it got off topic, it was still about her. But the person formerly known as the Green Moderator locked it.....
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol I'm confused about who this might be...
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
its about D0ctor Mario(whoever is currently 9th on the tier list is the d0c of brawl, xD)
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yeah i know, same things happend all over, but Fox was spared for some reason or another.
goldemblem
Smash Apprentice
Because Fox deserves respect, and mods respect him too much to lock this thread without his permission.
Or maybe they just forgot about Fox >_>
I lol'ed at the comments about fox vs falco above, falco has terrible recovery? HE HAS VERTICAL TERRIBLE RECOVERY, and in fox vs falco match, fox VERTICAL recovery is just as bad and i will say it again IN FOX VS FALCO MATCH, and the horizonatal recovery both have is almost the same, but Falco's Bair and Dair are a better options than Fox's nair, bair, dair and shine
Fox's Dair and Shine act as Falco's Dair and Bair when fighting vertical recovery, so they are about the same in that position, but in a horizontal recovery, that it's where you expect most recoveries from fox and falco, falco can dair and bair if he times it right and send him to doom if hit by dair or return it to the same position if he bairs, and fox against horizontal has only nair that does not send them as far as Falco's bair and makes your opponent recovery very easy, good luck hiting an illusion with a shine or bair.
Or maybe they just forgot about Fox >_>
I lol'ed at the comments about fox vs falco above, falco has terrible recovery? HE HAS VERTICAL TERRIBLE RECOVERY, and in fox vs falco match, fox VERTICAL recovery is just as bad and i will say it again IN FOX VS FALCO MATCH, and the horizonatal recovery both have is almost the same, but Falco's Bair and Dair are a better options than Fox's nair, bair, dair and shine
Fox's Dair and Shine act as Falco's Dair and Bair when fighting vertical recovery, so they are about the same in that position, but in a horizontal recovery, that it's where you expect most recoveries from fox and falco, falco can dair and bair if he times it right and send him to doom if hit by dair or return it to the same position if he bairs, and fox against horizontal has only nair that does not send them as far as Falco's bair and makes your opponent recovery very easy, good luck hiting an illusion with a shine or bair.
goldemblem
Smash Apprentice
i know they go farther, but that does not influence the points i was trying to make, on firebird it might because you can edgehog and get an easy kill but even if it is firefox the same points still apply
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
both Falcso recoveries are also easliy outprioriterized like Foxs, but Fox has good horizontal and vertical while Falco only has horizontal. Dsmash can eat him, Falco, alive if it lands. then we have copter jump. Fox revcovery >Falcos.
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