CeLL
Smash Lord
How is waveshine nair against characters we can't uthrow uair like Ganon and Bowser and the Mario bros?
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Its honestly just better to full hop upair and cover tech in place / missed tech with that and then react afterwards if they tech rolled. I think its really cool to reset people with that set up though lol.hey so I've noticed when you set up a techchase on a platform vs. falco on battlefield, you can use the light hit of short hop uair to get a reset if he misses the tech, and i thiiiink if he does anything other than tech in place you can still react with a fullhop uair afterwards. can someone confirm if this is a useful thing to be doing, or if there is a better option?
It's actually pretty easy. The timing is the same as doing a falco shine bair. Just make sure you space your shine well so that the very top tip of your shine is what hits them then jump out and bair. Its also way easier if your opponent is DIing up which is common survival DI. Uthrow shine bair is pretty much guranteed against spacies since theyre all going to be DIing expecting a bair.How do players do mid air shine bair with Fox? Doesn't the shine push the opponent too far to follow up with a bair
Thanks! are there any other set ups besides up throw to get the shine bair? Also, does shine bair with fox require faster execution than a shine bair with falco? I used to be a falco main so I am just trying to figure out the timingIt's actually pretty easy. The timing is the same as doing a falco shine bair. Just make sure you space your shine well so that the very top tip of your shine is what hits them then jump out and bair. Its also way easier if your opponent is DIing up which is common survival DI. Uthrow shine bair is pretty much guranteed against spacies since theyre all going to be DIing expecting a bair.
You could always watch a fox take apart Zanguzen considering he's one of, if not the most, defensive Falco player.Lame falcos=defensive falcos like forward, sk92, squid, stab etc.
There's not going to be a "right" or an optimal answer to a question like this. Any action you do has a counter to it.hey sveet, what do you do about a marth cornering you? Let's say that marth is coming towards you and whiffs a move, but you don't run back fast enough to punish with a grab, so he takes the space from you. How do you get that space back? I don't want shield, because then I get grabbed. I don't want to jump, because I'm sure a walling fair would punish me if he was prepared for a jump. I don't want to crouch because dtilt. And I don't want to run at him with a move because wavedash back fsmash. If he's prepared it seems like a very sticky situation.
Is the best thing to get invincible ledge dashing down so I can safely get him to back off long enough to reach center stage or at least the platforms?
vs. Sheik:Abuse platforms if available, shoot them from platforms back. If you see them jumping away from you and firing a laser, you can use reflector for its intended purpose fairly safely. At closer ranges, you can CC laser -> punish. Fullrun or walk shield to slide in blocking vs attempts to wall you out. Otherwise poke retreating moves like bair. Having either quick out of shield game or good powershielding are essential in dealing with Falco's lasers if you don't want to get hit.
In general, if you've been getting grabbed, see where it's happening and try to play around those situations.Grab her instead. Lol. Combo into non up smash attacks to keep her in an edgeguard position for when she's DIing up-KO moves. Lasers. Utilt. Bair. Pressure her with presence, stay spaced to deny wavedash forward, make her respect your pressure: space outside of nair OoS range, block it when in range but out of shield grab range, wd OoS into destruction. She'll probably start rolling and spotdodging more, destroy this. Don't mess up waveshines. Shield DI in on most attacks to get a punish. Shield DI ac fair (or avoid it alltogether) and low nair outward to avoid mixups (also do this with jabs if they have good jab pressure timings).
TL;DR for Marth:Can the Marth pivot grab and pivot down-tilt? If yes, you might be slightly screwed. Otherwise.... The corner's rough. If you have invincible ledgedash that's great, but otherwise, overshoot approaches of any kind if he attempts dashback. If he's stands his ground, advancing slowly may be a bit better. It's better to be in tipper range ready to block or spotdodge than in dtilt range at all. If you can get super close, Marth's royzone isn't covered very well outside of uptilt.
This may sound kind of janky but if you spotdodge on the same frame Marth does any attack (that won't hit the spotdodge for starting on the same frame as it), he can't really punish it. He can counter this by dash dancing or doing nothing, but because people value stage control, he'd expect a roll sooner. He may dash back as it covers a roll to center stage and an attempt to jump out of the corner, and he might abuse the lack of room you have to do moves that can beat attempts to attack, but aren't necessarily safe on shield (fsmash would beat any aerial if he has room, while those same aerials can go over dtilt, and can push you off the ledge). If you do continuous buffed spotdodges, it's also an 8 frame window to punish, which while absolutely doable, is also how long you're turning around not moving in a dashdance. Marth's also lacking in active frames. With that said, I am absolutely not suggesting that you spotdodge over and over. But spotdodge downsmash or jab, or yes, shine, could all help deal with Marthy behavior. You can also try to make him think you're about to roll or spotdodge by shielding a little first. If it's unlikely you'll be punished on hit with these moves, most Marths aren't going to expect you to just ftilt or dtilt, and there's a fair number of ranges those can get you around moves that aren't dtilt.
To avoid being put in the corner, you can try using bairs at different timings as you build percent. Doing this may initially cost some ground, but when you're knocking Marth away with them, not really. You could also be the aggressor, or use a lot of aerials OoS as the shield can beat most of Marth's moves and nairing before he quite gets to you can beat the grab.
Hmm, I just realized I didn't even mention platforms. Yeah, on FD it's rough vs. Marth anyway. Have good shield drops and platform movement. Easiest solution.
I suppose if you're confident in your ability to use air dodge to actually dodge stuff, triangle jumps can help against Marth since he has so few active frames. Triangle landing as well, if you fulljump and he goes to the air to chase you.
If your shield DI is godlike, you can beat dtilt anyway even when it's space really well because this game is messed up at closer to TAS levels (dtilt manages to hit frame 9, not tremendously likely for someone to do this consistently, 6 frames shieldstun if dtilt is unstaled, shield DI during hitlag into shine OoS has 1 frame of leniency. Grab can also work). More realistically, holding in into c-stick up buffed jump oos->nair has a decent shot at working, but beward CC.
If you're at the right ranges, a good nair beats anything outside of Marth retreating, or jab, or dancing blade. Marth's aerials can also work around this if he has time, though he's ideally retreating with those as well. Jab and dancingblade are simply weak at low percents, and no one really does those in the neutral, and they're potentially punishable on hit, even against an aerial Fox.
If you can bait out a dtilt by with the variable speeds you can move forward, and even come fourth with something sudden (that isn't dash attack seeing as if he's thinking about dtilt he may well already be crouching, and thus CCing) you can get around it. Fsmash can clank and continue going forward and hit Marth depending on staleness, ftilt can simply go around it if timed and spaced well.
Not mentioning much outside of grab and dtilt because it's mostly very easy to punish on block or on getting hit (at lower percents). If Marth takes to the air, where he'll end up is fairly predictable, so you can space around where aerials can go and punish, or just use shield.
If Marth isn't CCing (like a lot of the time he's moving or if he's approaching with grab) jab is actually really good, but you need to be able to do the second jab immediately in the event he shields facing you (but you don't necessarily have to do it immediately). If he is CCing, it just sucks.
If you can grab Marth, do it. You can reverse the situation or get him in the air, neither of which are desirable for him at all. Dthrow tech-chase is easier in the corner too, but you shouldn't go for it against Marth, really.
More or less a guessing game. You get more options when Marth has more percent. If platforms are available, use them. Spotdodge or triangle jump can work, and are mostly to punish Marth actually using an attack. You mostly have to worry about dtilt and grab, other moves are either punishable on block, punishable on getting hit at lower percents, or aren't that difficult to maneuver around/poke through (and you can still poke through both, and punish dtilt on shield if you're just really godlike or it's stale/misspaced). Aerials get around dtilt, and like many other moves, can poke around grab as well. Jab is godlike unless Marth CCs or blocks facing you, and even in the latter case it's not that bad; use it to get around movement and stuff grabs. If you can get a grab, do it. Baiting out moves may be harder with less ground, but it's not impossible, and Marth can't afford to whiff.