Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Pretty sure Bones made one that wasn't quite complete/super precise according to him, but I forget
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
This is the best I have:
Source:
http://smashboards.com/threads/fox-advice-questions-topic.98202/page-766#post-16057519
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Sinji
Smash Master
Is fox venerable to samus up b oos even if foxes nair is perfectly spaced?
Tomacawk
Smash Master
you can nair low enough to the ground that you can buffer your shield and block the upb. wd oos, chase, and punish. you can probably sweetspot the tip of your foot at max range and dodge it that way, but a good samus will recognize your spacing and they won't go for it
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
We need someone to do this with actual frame data/AR
Btw anybody got a link to Fox/Falco chaingrab % (like when to Utilt, when regrab, ...)
Fman_Fury
Smash Rookie
Can anyone help me with fox's shine->nair/bair? I know its not the most useful thing but its so damn cool i just have to know
Like when an opponent is in the air and you jump into shine->aerial (like falco)
Like when an opponent is in the air and you jump into shine->aerial (like falco)
Has any fox considered learning to waveshine infinite peach? Using wavedash -> dash -> jump -> turnaround shine you can get behind peach after waveshine even if she gets sdi away, and continue waveshining her in to the other direction. I can't do jump shine consistently, but I know many foxes can even multishine, so this should be doable.
Bones0
Smash Legend
It's only really useful when you can get a running start because you pretty much have to cross them up after such an early aerial (in case they shield).
I'm sure it's possible, but shines are so weak that it really isn't feasible. Being off by a frame makes the link impossible, so unless you are able to consistently get 10 frame perfect links, even the most simple punishes like grab, uthrow, bair would do more damage and put them in a worse position than if you drop the infinite. The infinite also becomes excessively difficult when they start SDIing your shines properly and you essentially have to react to their DI each and every time.
What I am a proponent of is waveshining characters to the ledge that otherwise couldn't be waveshined, like Marth. If you can get a single grounded shine after the initial waveshine, then it's usually enough to push him to the ledge, and they often are expecting something else because they've never been waveshined consecutively before. Unlike the infinite described above, if you mess up the grounded shine, you'll still hit them and send them off, you'll just have to edgeguard from on the stage instead of the ledge, but you aren't put in a really bad situation where they can counterattack. Waveshining like this is also useful for limiting their DI options by pushing them closer to the edges. If you drillshine usmash Marth from the center of the stage, you usually could have waveshined him one more time so that the usmash kills significantly earlier.
I don't think you need to be even near frameperfect for the waveshine dash shine to combo. It's easy to pull of the combo in practice mode. It even works on falcon on no di. Regarding di'ng out, you could then as well di out of regular waveshine, and I rarely see that happen. Though I agree with you that you would really have to be super consistent with this, as staled shine does less than 2,5 dmg.
The reason why I bring this up is I could totally see players like Silent wolf get this to work consistently. I have already got my brother waveshine me four times across fd after few hours of practice.
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Bones0
Smash Legend
You have to be frame perfect to get the grounded shine.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Most people aren't frame perfect with wavedashes.
Yes, people can do grounded double shines. Can they do them while running, constantly adjusting to various SDIs, and for long enough that it's worth while? Doubt it.
You can't theoretically DI out of either a regular waveshine, or the technique you're suggesting. However, it's far easier to adjust a waveshine to various DIs than this sort of infinite shine.
Yes, people can do grounded double shines. Can they do them while running, constantly adjusting to various SDIs, and for long enough that it's worth while? Doubt it.
You can't theoretically DI out of either a regular waveshine, or the technique you're suggesting. However, it's far easier to adjust a waveshine to various DIs than this sort of infinite shine.
Pengie
Smash Lord
I used to practice the waveshine infinite stuff a few years ago when all I'd do is sit in my room and grind tech; that **** is mad hard to do when they AREN'T trying to DI out of it, so imagine what it's like when they are >.>.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
long story short no one is going to cosign that because that's not practical at all (something I learned eventually, practicality matters more than you think when you first start playing this game), your opponent can change their DI and SDI it and you have to have a silly level of precision. way easier to get out of than it is to execute
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Ofc, if you can be the one guy to prove everyone wrong and do it...by all means, learn the infinite. Someone's gotta innovate.
Its just that there are probably a million other things that are more useful to your overall success and skill level than executing this, ultimately, which is why people don't spend too much time on it.
Its just that there are probably a million other things that are more useful to your overall success and skill level than executing this, ultimately, which is why people don't spend too much time on it.
Tred
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 7
I'm having trouble with the falco matchup. The laser aproaching into dair with the constant pillars destroys me. The only thing i can think of is either shield grabs or shine to reflect the laser into nair, but its hard with so much constant pressure. i just need tips on how to deal with the constant laser pressure.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
If you go back a few pages there was a big discussion on fox vs falco.
The easy answer is:
1) Get hit by the laser, just dash back. His aerial will whiff and you can DD grab it.
2) After shielding the laser, immediately full jump. If he aerials he'll fall underneath you, and you can bair or dair him.
The easy answer is:
1) Get hit by the laser, just dash back. His aerial will whiff and you can DD grab it.
2) After shielding the laser, immediately full jump. If he aerials he'll fall underneath you, and you can bair or dair him.
All4G0dsGl0ry
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Messages
- 46
i'm in an interesting spot in my training. i don't have a huge local scene to practice with, so the majority of my practice is alone. i think i need some new mix ups and new decisions. can anyone guide me in a new direction for practice? i get beaten up a lot by people who wavedash back when i arial. i also get destroyed by dash attacks a lot. any good ways to practice running and shielding? the only real video i have of me playing is this stream. the first two games are me. i'm A4GG. second game is where i get destroyed. thanks for all the help in advance.
http://www.twitch.tv/iesmash/b/519322848
http://www.twitch.tv/iesmash/b/519322848
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Bones0
Smash Legend
There are 11 stale move slots, but yeah. Being preoccupied with lasering is a really easy way to die though, and definitely not worth the extra 1-2% you will get from unstaling other moves. The lasers themselves will be more relevant, and if you just play normally, one decent hit will outweigh almost any amount of unstaling that would occur over the course of an average stuck.
Really, just ignore it. It's not important to keep your moves fresh. Shine is the only move I ever worry about keeping fresh (because it keeps shield pressure a little safer), but even then the only things I do to help the cause is laser opponents after they are guaranteed not to recovery and avoid overkill shine spiking opponents after I've edgehogged them.
Wind
Smash Cadet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giFDLfGZCFo
Hey guys, I'm the Fox in this video. I would appreciate some critique! I think my neutral game and fundamentals are okay but still need some work, but my punish game is pretty bad. Any advice would be appreciated! For perspective, I also want to mention that this Falco has taken KDJ to 1 stock before
Hey guys, I'm the Fox in this video. I would appreciate some critique! I think my neutral game and fundamentals are okay but still need some work, but my punish game is pretty bad. Any advice would be appreciated! For perspective, I also want to mention that this Falco has taken KDJ to 1 stock before
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Xyzz
Smash Champion
You can't SDI attacks without hitstun. (SDI is input during hitstun, so how would you do so for attacks lacking just that? :D)
Bones0
Smash Legend
You input SDI during hitlag, actually, but yeah. Fox's lasers don't have hitlag or hitstun so you can't do any type of DI.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
anyone know the percent 2nd hit uair forces a knockdown/launch vs Falco's CC?
Bones0
Smash Legend
It technically depends on how far you are from the spot where they land and what type of lag, if any, you are in at the time, but for the most part, yes, if you can cover TIP you can almost always just WD from there to cover either roll option on reaction. If you are already near their landing spot, you don't even have to worry about WDing out of your run so you can cover all of the options on reaction. React to TIP/stand, shield/CC/DD around GUA, and dash/WD towards roll options.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
....TIP = tech in place
GUA = get up attack
WD = wavedash
He has 1 post, so i don't think using abbreviations is wise >_>
But yea, you can react if you practice it, pretty much. Takes a while, but you'll get it.
GUA = get up attack
WD = wavedash
He has 1 post, so i don't think using abbreviations is wise >_>
But yea, you can react if you practice it, pretty much. Takes a while, but you'll get it.
Bones0
Smash Legend
MD/VA players just have a natural understanding of elaborate acronyms and abbreviations. I guess you players in the south just aren't on our level.
#ShotsFired
#MDVAvsSouthCrewBattle
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
DAMN
MDVA vs south would be pretty unfair. Maybe MDVA vs like...GA
MDVA vs south would be pretty unfair. Maybe MDVA vs like...GA
Pengie
Smash Lord
MD/VA vs GA would be fun, although the fact that MD/VA would have so may Foxes on their crew might trigger some of the GA players PTSD flashbacks and leave them unable to play.
Zylo
Smash Journeyman
Is shield drop shine faster than shine OOS?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yes.
squirrels4ev
Smash Apprentice
I'm trying to learn drillshining at the moment, and something that wasn't covered in anything I watched or read on the topic is troubling me. Do you "lose" any frames if you l-cancel your drill while still holding down on the control stick from fastfalling, resulting in Fox landing in a crouch? It seems to me that shine comes out slower that way as opposed to when I flick the control stick down to fastfall, allow it to return to neutral before I L-cancel, and then flick it down again with B to perform the shine. The input itself seems a bit easier when I hold the control stick down for the entire time from when I reach the top of my SH to when shine comes out, so if landing in crouch doesn't add any lag I'd prefer to do it by holding the stick down rather than flicking it down twice.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Landing in crouch doesn't add any lag, though if you time the shine late I suppose there's the fact that crouch takes 1 frame? If you're not frame perfect on shining, the 1 frame startup on crouch will literally not matter though, and if you are frame perfect then the crouch turns into a shine input.
All that to say, no, it doesn't matter.
All that to say, no, it doesn't matter.
Initial crouch lasts 7 or 8 frames, but you can still interrupt it with shine at any time, so as said it doesn't matter. But it does prevent you from dashing backwards. You shouldn't always shine after aerial, and dashing back is sometimes useful, so don't hold down unless you are going to shine.
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Druggedfox
Smash Champion
1) He's talking about drill shining, so I assumed he meant on hit, though I could be wrong.
2) I should have been more clear, I meant it takes 1 frame to go from a non crouching position to a crouch.
2) I should have been more clear, I meant it takes 1 frame to go from a non crouching position to a crouch.
1) I didn't think this thoroughly, I was worried, that he might develop habit of holding down when drilling, but that's not likely going to be a problem since he can just release the stick during landing lag if he's going to do something else than shine.
2) I think that's not accurate. Initial crouch is not same as crouching position. You do have crouch armor during initial crouch, but you can't dash or walk, which is significant.
2) I think that's not accurate. Initial crouch is not same as crouching position. You do have crouch armor during initial crouch, but you can't dash or walk, which is significant.
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squirrels4ev
Smash Apprentice
So if we call the frame that my landing lag ends frame 0, if I'm holding down and I press B on frame 1 I'll shine? I don't have to wait for the initial crouch to be active for 1 frame before it can be interrupted? It feels like with JC grabs if you input both buttons (X/Y and Z) in the same frame, you just jump. I think it's more likely that I was just missing L cancels because I haven't practiced them with fastfallers yet, but I want to be sure.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
As I said, is you pressed B on the same frame that you crouched then your crouch would never happen right? You'd just shine on that frame since it's an actual move. If you press jump and grab on the same frame, jump + grab isn't an actual move, so it works differently.