Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Rocketpowerchill]

the **** that matters most in melee imo rofl
freakin real talk to the max
cc grab, etc so broken but sometimes i mess up punishing get up attacks and i look silly lol good stuffff

 

[shadrach kabango]

Toph we play similar fox styles, it's pretty tight. <3

no u dont

 

[BTmoney]

Here's a question.

I was practicing Fox stuff today because I was bored and I was wondering about your combo trees vs. Falco.
I was told previously to drill->grab versus falco which makes sense to me because you have so many good options out of uthrow versus Falco.

Then I started messing around with Thunder's Combo, or at least the waveshine into a jab. I'm not sure exactly why you would drill (on hit) and shine because that allows Falco to tech and avoid any sort of follow up. Even if you get the jab and force the stand up, the next best thing you can do is usmash or uthrow (which drill->grab gets you).

So I have a few questions:

1. Why thunder's over drill->grab?
2. Does thunder's still work if they DI away (this is the most important question)

If thunder's still works versus DI away:

• Does shine->usmash work versus DI away? (since the "victim" would be moving more distance per frame and they might be too far for usmash to connect) If they don't tech the shine shouldn't you just usmash (if that doesn't get stopped by DI'ing away)?

edit:
shine->usmash works a lot better (for me) when you do it from a run/dash. You slide when you shine out of a dash so you're a lot closer when you usmash. My questions still stand though

 

[Bones0]

First of all, even if Falco techs a drillshine, you can still follow up like with any other tech chase, at least most of the time. You can also SH uair after Thunder's combo, which is what most Fox players would consider optimal these days. You can also opt for a dtilt in place of (or after) the reset.

 

[BTmoney]

First of all, even if Falco techs a drillshine, you can still follow up like with any other tech chase, at least most of the time. You can also SH uair after Thunder's combo, which is what most Fox players would consider optimal these days. You can also opt for a dtilt in place of (or after) the reset.

Well the rest of the question still stands lol. I really want to know avoidable the reset is when drill->grab is such a good option (and I just tested it in debug mode, you can't buffer a spot doge (or shine) out of it if you do it right so why turn it down)

 

[Jesus aka jman]

Well I got my ticket guys thanks to every one ESP KRIS

imma Gonna go all out at this tourney first big one since i don't even no when lol

I'm going to Practice my ass off

Year of the fox baby

 

[Jim Morrison]

Here's a question.

I was practicing Fox stuff today because I was bored and I was wondering about your combo trees vs. Falco.
I was told previously to drill->grab versus falco which makes sense to me because you have so many good options out of uthrow versus Falco.

Then I started messing around with Thunder's Combo, or at least the waveshine into a jab. I'm not sure exactly why you would drill (on hit) and shine because that allows Falco to tech and avoid any sort of follow up. Even if you get the jab and force the stand up, the next best thing you can do is usmash or uthrow (which drill->grab gets you).

So I have a few questions:

1. Why thunder's over drill->grab?
2. Does thunder's still work if they DI away (this is the most important question

I'm pretty sure Falco and Fox can shine inbetween Drill-grab, and that's not even considering them using smash-DI to come out behind your drill which means you can't grab.
Thunder's Combo is definitely not just for no reason, one very VERY important thing it does is put people closer to the edge. I can't tell you how many times I got Thunder's Combo into F--throw/F-smash and then edgeguarded for a KO. You just get so much more from Thunder's Combo than just grab. Grab is good, but when there's a platform above you/near you, it already makes following a lot harder, so Thunder's might be more optimal. Besides, if they do tech it, you have to realize you made them tech. If this happens near the edge, you are in one of the most optimal positions in the game.
It does work against DI away, it doesn't work again DI up. If they hold up when you jab them, they don't get jab reset.

If thunder's still works versus DI away:

• Does shine->usmash work versus DI away? (since the "victim" would be moving more distance per frame and they might be too far for usmash to connect) If they don't tech the shine shouldn't you just usmash (if that doesn't get stopped by DI'ing away)?

edit:

shine->usmash works a lot better (for me) when you do it from a run/dash. You slide when you shine out of a dash so you're a lot closer when you usmash. My questions still stand though

I personally only shine->usmash out of a dash, it's an amazing punish for a tech in place which seems like a hard reach if you want to just U-smash. It's a very niche move, but a 1-frame U-smash out of a dash is extremely good. Another good application is when they shield near the edge, you can knock them off with the shine and hit with U-smash. As I said, very niche, but you get incredibly amounts of style points, so never forget to incorporate it in your swag game.

And I'm pretty sure shine->usmash doesn't work when standing still, especially on targets that DI away from the shine.

 

[BTmoney]

I seriously do think shine->usmash is legitimately good and better than just being flashy.

I can agree with thunder's next to the ledge or possibly underneath a platform at low percents where it might mess up your uthrow follow up. (that's the answer I was expecting, and how I saw it but I figured it's something I should ask since I see it so much)

 

[chillindude829]

good luck at evo to jesus and all the other fox mains going i wanna see mad foxes in top 8

 

[Jesus aka jman]

U already no bro Imma try for top 5

Just got to Practice practice makes perfect

 

[Redd]

go away sb

good **** jesus, give it to em. not sure if I can go =( but you got em. fox underrated? ROFL

 

[Jesus aka jman]

Imma deff do it big

I don't want to sound Overconfident but right now I'm not taking no place under top 5 for a answer

That's the mind set I'm on

 

[omgwtfToph]

I heard EC had a Very Fox Ditto Saturday this weekend. LOL good **** chillin/jman

 

[Lovage]

jman you and me are gonna get so baked at the hotel its just crazy

 

[Jesus aka jman]

Oscar That deff sounds amazing u no I smokes all day ALLDAY LOL

At toph yea man that tourney was stacked with fox players who all had better tech skill then me being that I was rusty still I was Intimidated LOL

 

[shadrach kabango]

im gonna read this entire thread from the beginning, learn every minute detail about my character, practice in my room every day (erryday) for at least 15 minutes, and become the best fox in socal

 

[BTmoney]

I wish I picked up this game like 3+ years ago. I feel like I missed out on so much and so many cool people. lol

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

lol games been out for 30 years and i picked it up in 2012, missed out on everything
when people ask "where were you when the wombo combo happened?" i can't say anything
it makes me a poser cuz i was not around for genesis and also the glory days of smash
but being a noob in 2012 is much easier than in 07, since a more developed metagame makes learning the game alot faster

 

[Jim Morrison]

You could also be a scrub who joined in 08 because of the Brawl bandwagon.

 

[Divinokage]

lol games been out for 30 years and i picked it up in 2012, missed out on everything
when people ask "where were you when the wombo combo happened?" i can't say anything
it makes me a poser cuz i was not around for genesis and also the glory days of smash
but being a noob in 2012 is much easier than in 07, since a more developed metagame makes learning the game alot faster

Not necessarily, it should be a lot harder to get to a decent level. Even with more information available, players still have years of xp ahead of everybody else, you have to surpass that. lol. From experience, I feel like only 1 guy out of 20 can realistically do this.

 

[BTmoney]

Eh I disagree, I think it's a lot easier to reach a mediocre level now than it was before. But obviously, I couldn't tell you.

 

[CyberZixx]

The standards for mediocre have changed in that time. Even being mediocre requires more then it did back then as the play is so much higher these days. But as it has been stated there is more info out there now to become that level. It has been very useful for me getting into the game.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

ah real talk, having a fine tech skill foundation is found in almost every player now, i feel i am physically able to do all that i will ever need to do technically
its all about doing the stuff you need to do against a certain character, knowing the mu, and exploiting it.
but also what makes the pros seem insane is their optimism towards every aspect of their stock, like sding into stage saving them from spike
and stuff like tech on foxs shine and a ton of other stuff.
my game is pretty simple since i dont sdi cuz i dont know, and its best to do single input di as ive been told now.
but im at the point where i need to learn the stuff that hella saves you like sdi and dope techs like amsah techs.

 

[shadrach kabango]

ah real talk, having a fine tech skill foundation is found in almost every player now

this is one of the biggest misconceptions on the scene. most players have poor tech skill imo. the problem is "foundation" is such a far-reaching concept that requires a disparate array of tech skill.

anywho in absence of convincing evidence i'm going with the red queen theory that it is roughly just as easy (or hard) to become mediocre now as it was in 2006.

 

[unknown522]

I'm pretty sure Falco and Fox can shine inbetween Drill-grab, and that's not even considering them using smash-DI to come out behind your drill which means you can't grab.

That is incorrect good sir.

And I'm pretty sure shine->usmash doesn't work when standing still, especially on targets that DI away from the shine.

yeah

 

[omgwtfToph]

this is one of the biggest misconceptions on the scene. most players have poor tech skill imo. the problem is "foundation" is such a far-reaching concept that requires a disparate array of tech skill.

anywho in absence of convincing evidence i'm going with the red queen theory that it is roughly just as easy (or hard) to become mediocre now as it was in 2006.

I pretty much agree with this post. The standard has gone up though. At the very least, people have better movement now. A lot of people have spotty punish games or inconsistent tech skill though.

Redd, I watched you vs M2K. Heartbreaking. ._. I wish you wouldn't start approaching like a madman from a lot of weird angles. When you tried that run off FF bair from the top platform on Yoshi's I had a sinking feeling you were gonna give it away.

 

[Redd]

LOLLLLL.

I don't know what changed during the last stock. I keep watching and trying to figure it out, but the whole time I was attempting to keep any sort of let-up out of my head. Maybe too much so. But yeah I tried mixing it up a little too hard and did that dumb ****. =(

I'll just get him next time.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Yo where's your set vs m2k, redd?

 

[Bones0]

Yo where's your set vs m2k, redd?

www.youtube.com/videogamebootcamp

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

LOLLLLL.

I don't know what changed during the last stock. I keep watching and trying to figure it out, but the whole time I was attempting to keep any sort of let-up out of my head. Maybe too much so. But yeah I tried mixing it up a little too hard and did that dumb ****. =(

I'll just get him next time.

**** you had it, saw that live
was going up until i wanted to stop playing smash cuz of it getting in the way
but i said **** other ****, im playing smash
so it was a good decision and im attending md **** now

 

[chillindude829]

First hit of fair is the future

 

[unknown522]

Naw man it's all about first hit of f-air

In reverse

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yo is this actually allowed what Redd is doing here?
http://youtu.be/AUl6i0JtBVk?t=5m15s
The crouch cancel D-smash, is this a legit way to edgeguard Marth or does it not work on sweetspot? Till what % does this work? What's the trick if it does work?

Aaaahhhh no, 6:55 ;_;

You were fiending for the kill so hard.

 

[shadrach kabango]

lmao @ is it allowed

it is a legit but it does not work on sweet spot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAr5GvACGME

@ 3:04

wife is at 44 percent. pbnj says: "if he can laser him one more time he can nair him."

so you can nair and peach can't cc dsmash anymore @ 47%?

 

[unknown522]

If it's a true CC, then it's something like 63% (give or take 1-2%)

 

[shadrach kabango]

good to know, going into my database

another question:

you uthrow falcon and he hard DIs away. at what % (at the time of the uthrow) can you dash out of throw and nair?

for some reason reacting asap out of fox's throw this is a particularly challenging piece of tech skill

 

[Bones0]

for some reason reacting asap out of fox's throw this is a particularly challenging piece of tech skill

The timing varies based on the character's weight so you're liable to jump slow for light characters and early for heavy characters. Pay close attention to Fox's throw animation and know exactly at what point in the animation you can get out.

 

[shadrach kabango]

thank you! had no idea it varies

 

[Jesus aka jman]

Melee deep as hell bro u got a lot to learn

 

[Bones0]

thank you! had no idea it varies

I highly recommend going into Training Mode and putting a random top tier at 50%. Combo uthrow uair and reduce the percent until you can no longer hit it. Even when you swear there's no way you can combo it any faster, keep trying and you'll naturally smooth out the wrinkles. I have been doing this with Falco recently, and it's crazy how much better I am at throw comboing. I'd start out with a mid-weight like Mario, and then work your way towards more extreme characters like Peach or Puff. Puff is especially good practice because she is so light that you can jump ridiculously early after inputting the throw. I whiffed about 5 uthrow uairs in a recent set with a Puff because I would wait until the average ending time of Falco's uthrow, but now that i practiced it I can combo her super easy. Once you've reached the lower bound of the percent that you can combo at, go back to 50% and start increasing it to practice comboing at higher %s.

People have all sorts of inefficient habits that they never realize because of it working on their not-so-good training partner or computers. For instance, a lot of people will jump quick enough after their throw, but instead of inputting their uair so it comes out by the time they reach their opponent, they wait until they're close enough to their opponent and THEN input the uair. This wastes valuable frames that can have a pretty huge impact on whether or not you get your throw combos or combos in general. You may also want to try uthrow uairing with Falco because his throw's lasers knock opponents to the side, so it can do a decent job of emulating DI on Fox's uthrow, which allows you to practice controlling the distance of your dash before jumping and your aerial drift during the jump and uair.