Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

['V']

Pro-ban: Ban Falcon, his taunts are so broken!
Anti-ban: A good Kirby will counter will a single Falcon punch lock.
Pro-ban: His taunts can't be punished, he has no bad match ups!
Anti-ban: Neither did Melee Falcon's, but he wasn't banned.
*repeat with different wording*

^pretty much the entire thread on banning MK excluding the random people.

I can't believe how many times the same arguments have been repeating. Everything that needed to be said was pretty much said 100s of posts and pages ago. Even this post that I just made!

Well, I've done enough reading. I'm just going to wait how much ever longer before this thread closes for the results, then proceed to read the cries of all the people who didn't get what they wanted.

The thread closes tomorrow.

 

[Alus]

The thread closes tomorrow.

When exactly is tomorrow?

It could be two min from now(for me)

and etc

 

[kirbywizard]

ima seriously say that the snake v meta MU is even at the point the camp game is getting better and better with snake.

dont diddy boards consider meta MU even as well?

I think the Diddy Metaknight match up is even.

 

[MarKO X]

Well, since we just throwin stuff out there:

there's This, This, and This. (rofl)

 

[REL38]

When exactly is tomorrow?

It could be two min from now(for me)

and etc

It's already 12:02 AM and it's still open so I'm guessing later >_>.

My best guess is sometime in the evening so everyone can see the final results. But will they just announce the verdict on Metaknight in this thread or what?

 

[BadAxel97]

Well, since we just throwin stuff out there:

there's This, This, and This. (rofl)

Those were good vids.
Especially the last one - why would they even have a character with that much range compared to cloud's tiny little range?
That seemed pretty broken lol.

 

[Clai]

Remember guys, MK has the sudden ability to change match-ups into heavhily in his favor. All he has to do is main the character in question for almost a year, place high in tournaments, and then switch to MK. Suddenly, the fact that the player using MK was a master of his former main is conpletely irrelevant and all that matters is that somehow MK gained 30 points in his matchup.

Hear that, MK mains? All you need to do to invalidate every matchup in the game is to main and play a high/master level with every character in the main and then MK gets an 80-20 on the entire cast. Then you can get that ban you were all hoping for.

10LeThiens

 

[TP]

It's already 12:02 AM and it's still open so I'm guessing later >_>.

My best guess is sometime in the evening so everyone can see the final results. But will they just announce the verdict on Metaknight in this thread or what?

They will make a new thread with an official statement. I don't know if the official statement will actually come tomorrow, it may be more than a week away as they write it and deal with alt account votes, but this thread WILL be locked soon.

 

[MarKO X]

closes @ 5:49pm

so, if you got one last WoT, troll,. one liner, etc. to get it, get it in now, or forever hold your peace.

 

[ShinoBee]

C'mon everyone, we need those votes! STEP IT UP!

 

[javado]

T.T
Being called an alternate account makes me sad, and I do like melee.

How is Metaknight actually banable, I see no official commandment saying
"Thou hast no Metaknight in ye tournaments", besides what will you do if someone selects Metaknight? Have some tourney*** shout "Durr hurr, 0MG N0 metaknight, Y000 AR3 S0 AGA1NST T3H C0UNTERPICKIN SYST3M"

 

[BadAxel97]

@Clai

But why would you purposefully do something like that?
Blatantly ruining a game is not a respectable thing in my eyes.
If you want to main as MK then ok...but you shouldn't do it to break the game, you should do it because you like the character.

 

['V']

When exactly is tomorrow?

It could be two min from now(for me)

and etc

"This poll will close on 08-07-2009 at 04:49 PM"

That's what I meant. Guess I should've specified that time or something.

The point is that it closes tomorrow.

 

[ShinoBee]

I say everyone does their vote TONIGHT! Playing it safe is always best!

 

['V']

Remember guys, MK has the sudden ability to change match-ups into heavhily in his favor. All he has to do is main the character in question for almost a year, place high in tournaments, and then switch to MK.

Hopefully by the time he masters one character, Brawl will be dead then. Then he could go to Melee and be happy.

 

[BadAxel97]

:'(
But I love brawl...
Why would you hate brawl like that?
Blatantly attempting to kill games is not good.

 

[swordgard]

"This poll will close on 08-07-2009 at 04:49 PM"

That's what I meant. Guess I should've specified that time or something.

The point is that it closes tomorrow.

Timezone?

10 chars

 

['V']

Timezone?

10 chars

Alright, alright.. You silly people, you.

It'll close sometime tomorrow, Aug. 7 in the afternoon.

Happy? I hope so.

 

[javado]

T.T
Being called an alternate account makes me sad, and I do like melee.

How is Metaknight actually banable, I see no official commandment saying
"Thou hast no Metaknight in ye tournaments", besides what will you do if someone selects Metaknight? Have some tourney*** shout "Durr hurr, 0MG N0 metaknight, Y000 AR3 S0 AGA1NST T3H C0UNTERPICKIN SYST3M"

 

[BadAxel97]

Well people want to ban him because he is the best character right now and is much easier to pick up than other characters (like snake) that have a legit chance of beating him.

 

[adumbrodeus]

wow just making suggestions geeze maybe if u still play the MK players in friendlies it won't hurt so much or you can stop worrying about MK and worry about your own Char improvements instead.. in other words calm down think about all options thoroughly which it sounds like u didin't.
maybe u worry too much which is the possible cause of your losing to mk... MK is beatable as well as Unbeatable, both are true, but have him fall behind somehow... by baning him from as many as all tournament play temporarily even if it would take a 2 year ban do it. At least Until the Majority Of ppl can actually beat a MK. remember its just a game... i vote for a temp ban if anything again.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's a bad suggestion that's been made many times before.

It will temporarily change the metagame to what it would be like without MK, but at the expense of the anti-mk metagame stagnating.

Sure, there's a chance that we'll get some new ATs from MK mains assisting with other characters, as well as other forms of development.

The problem is, people will get out of practice against MK, so once he comes back, he'll seem and be 100x worse in the metagame. It'll only be temporary of course, but it really doesn't have much of a plus side since MK is the character to beat for now, so stagnating the metagame against him is the best way to hurt characters.

lol.
Ivan can't block.
MK could get all up in that ***.

Yea, and his invincable on start-up moves don't totally make up for that.

And his mobility.

 

['V']

:'(
But I love brawl...
Why would you hate brawl like that?
Blatantly attempting to kill games is not good.

There are many many reasons as to why I hate Brawl so much. A lot of the mechanics it represents, to my very own state community, and a lot of personal things that just happened to pile up. Trust me... There's a lot to talk about.

Well people want to ban him because he is the best character right now and is much easier to pick up than other characters (like snake) that have a legit chance of beating him.

The ease it takes to use a character should really have nothing to do with banning a character. The character itself has to pose a threat to everything that the game stands for in order to be ban-worthy. All of the confusion is coming from what needs to be the criteria to be able to pose a threat to this game.

Sheik was easier for people to learn in Melee than the rest of the high tier characters during the time that people thought she was broken, but alas, now there's Fox, Marth, and Falco to an extent. They take quite a bit of dedication, though.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hopefully by the time he masters one character, Brawl will be dead then. Then he could go to Melee and be happy.

Yeah, to a game where the top two characters take up 50% of the national tournaments.
Where Falco's Dair spikes the entire duration, his feet are disjoitnted hitboxes and the spike is not meteor cancellable.

Along with Fox's ridiculously strong Usmash, wave shining abilities, nasty combo game.
Or Marth's awesome combos and his non meteor cancellable Dair.

or Sheik's Slap, Dthrow, very existence.

Unless you mean melee PAL in which case im all for it.

NTSC makes me angry.

 

[BadAxel97]

There are many many reasons as to why I hate Brawl so much. A lot of the mechanics it represents, to my very own state community, and a lot of personal things that just happened to pile up. Trust me... There's a lot to talk about.



The ease it takes to use a character should really have nothing to do with banning a character. The character itself has to pose a threat to everything that the game stands for in order to be ban-worthy. All of the confusion is coming from what needs to be the criteria to be able to pose a threat to this game.

Sheik was easier for people to learn in Melee than the rest of the high tier characters during the time that people thought she was broken, but alas, now there's Fox, Marth, and Falco to an extent. They take quite a bit of dedication, though.

Well yeah, I wasn't saying we should ban him because he's easy to pick up, it's just that because he is easier to pick up a lot more people play as him than others that are harder to pick up.
So now there are more meta knights.
(BTW I am anti-ban that was just my understanding of their side of the argument)

And I'm sorry you hate Brawl so much :'(

 

[ShinoBee]

We got this! :]

I look forward to seeing MK stay!

 

[Clai]

@Clai

But why would you purposefully do something like that?
Blatantly ruining a game is not a respectable thing in my eyes.
If you want to main as MK then ok...but you shouldn't do it to break the game, you should do it because you like the character.

Hopefully by the time he masters one character, Brawl will be dead then. Then he could go to Melee and be happy.

If you didn't get the reference, I was making fun of Le Thien, who disagrees with whatever the current consensus of the MK-Diddy matchup is (isn't it 55-45 MK or closer to even, I know it's close) and fears that Diddy's worst nightmare is an MK who used to main Diddy and knows the character perfectly.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any character's worst nightmare is a player that knows everything about that particular character and could probably counteract to stop anything that the character in question does.

 

[BadAxel97]

If you didn't get the reference, I was making fun of Le Thien, who disagrees with whatever the current consensus of the MK-Diddy matchup is (isn't it 55-45 MK or closer to even, I know it's close) and fears that Diddy's worst nightmare is an MK who used to main Diddy and knows the character perfectly.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any character's worst nightmare is a player that knows everything about that particular character and could probably counteract to stop anything that the character in question does.

Oh, ok. Sorry about the misunderstanding...I thought you were serious.

 

['V']

Yeah, to a game where the top two characters take up 50% of the national tournaments.
Where Falco's Dair spikes the entire duration, his feet are disjoitnted hitboxes and the spike is not meteor cancellable.

Along with Fox's ridiculously strong Usmash, wave shining abilities, nasty combo game.
Or Marth's awesome combos and his non meteor cancellable Dair.

or Sheik's Slap, Dthrow, very existence.

Unless you mean melee PAL in which case im all for it.

NTSC makes me angry.

Play Jigglypuff. All you have to worry about now is just dying. =D

Well yeah, I wasn't saying we should ban him because he's easy to pick up, it's just that because he is easier to pick up a lot more people play as him than others that are harder to pick up.
So now there are more meta knights.
(BTW I am anti-ban that was just my understanding of their side of the argument)

And I'm sorry you hate Brawl so much :'(

Yeah, I gotcha. I don't really blame Brawl that much. It's mostly the people that play it.

 

[BadAxel97]

Play Jigglypuff. All you have to worry about now is just dying. =D



Yeah, I gotcha. I don't really blame Brawl that much. It's mostly the people that play it.

1. But if all you worry about is not dying, how will you kill your opponent?

2. I hear you there =.=

 

['V']

If you didn't get the reference, I was making fun of Le Thien, who disagrees with whatever the current consensus of the MK-Diddy matchup is (isn't it 55-45 MK or closer to even, I know it's close) and fears that Diddy's worst nightmare is an MK who used to main Diddy and knows the character perfectly.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any character's worst nightmare is a player that knows everything about that particular character and could probably counteract to stop anything that the character in question does.

True that. And yeah.. I think the matchup's labeled 55:45 MK, which is roughly even. And last time I looked, the MK's labeled the IC's matchup 50:50.

Edit @BadAxel: That was mostly a joke about the not dying part because Jiggs is able to easily die, but surprisingly, when played well of course, Jiggs is able to avoid most of what he mentioned above.

 

[BadAxel97]

True that. And yeah.. I think the matchup's labeled 55:45 MK, which is roughly even. And last time I looked, the MK's labeled the IC's matchup 50:50.

Just dont get grabbed right.
Lol...

I wish I could be good with Ice Climbers...but it's just something I don't think I'm destined to do...
I loved to mess around as them in melee, but I just couldn't get them down. =.=

 

[betterthanbonds9]

lol shadowlink, it's called a spike. They aren't meteor cancellable.

meteor smashes are though :D

edit: play ntsc, who do you think you are, armada?
actually, i should play pal, then maybe i could play like armada jk

 

[ShadowLink84]

Play Jigglypuff. All you have to worry about now is just dying. =D

I like having to hit my L button every now and then <_<


@better: Read where I mentioned PAL, where all spikes=meteor

 

[Nic64]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any character's worst nightmare is a player that knows everything about that particular character and could probably counteract to stop anything that the character in question does.

Diddy is especially bad in this regard because he is overly reliant on a gimmick that in theory your opponent can use to their advantage just as much as you, just 99% of the time they don't have the experience to do so. All of Diddy's matchups could be worse vs someone that used to main or secondaries Diddy compared to other characters

Such as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnu5Z5b4-cw

 

[Uffe]

lol shadowlink, it's called a spike. They aren't meteor cancellable.

meteor smashes are though :D

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure a spike is a meteor smash. Unless of course it's like a stage spike or something. Of course I'm going with what the previous games recognized it as.

 

['V']

I like having to hit my L button every now and then <_<


@better: Read where I mentioned PAL, where all spikes=meteor

Use it to airdodge. It works wonders for your recovery. L-canceling is used for every character too.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure a spike is a meteor smash. Unless of course it's like a stage spike or something. Of course I'm going with what the previous games recognized it as.

Marth's and Falco's D-air's are not meteor smashes in Melee, but they still spike. They're powerful too.

 

[Crow!]

MK is boring.

Brawl, to me, is cool because of the complicated network of ifs, ands, and buts that happens when one character (or both!) is off balance. The most common complaint leveled at Brawl from people who base their arguments on game theory is that the defensive options are so good that the game always reverts to its base state with just two characters separated and trying to approach each other. This complaint ONLY applies to games of Brawl which feature MK.

Approach MK from above, below, or the side, and MK always has an instantaneous, long range, disjointed attack with medium-high knockback and negligible lag. There is no direction which is better to try to combo him than another. If something isn't a 100% guaranteed combo, MK always has a combo breaker which doesn't put him at any risk afterward. His light weight helps remove many of the true combos, too. Approach him when he's off the stage, and he still has all the same options he did before. Approach him when he's been in the air for 4 seconds and it's no different than if he were in the air for 1 second and only barely different than if he's on the ground.

Playing MK is definitely a test of skill. It is, however, always a test of the same skill, as MK's options are never any different, and he is never off balance or in his strongest position. There's no reason to try to box him into a particular position because there is no better or worse position for him to be in than the one he's currently at. Strategy never enters the picture, unless you count MK choosing a time to start stalling, which isn't supposed to be a part of the game anyway. Without any strategic interest to it, the game is exceptionally boring to watch and quite difficult to justify playing.

Brawl will have a longer lifespan without MK than it would with him, partly because Brawl is objectively speaking, from a game theory point of view, a better game without him. Frankly, even if MK sucked, Brawl would still be a better game if he were removed. That MK is the best character simply makes the problem a defining feature of the game, to the point where the game's flaws which only pertain to him are frequently generalized as being characteristic of the game itself.

 

[Slipsystem13]

I know this is late but, MK is harmful in many ways he is very powerful and is often the only choice. People are not going to be shamed into playing fairly as we have clearly seen so many times before. People will not stop CG, they will not stop inifiniting, nor will they ever, ever stop doing any overpowered or game breaking technique because a lot of you only care about winning and are the bigger losers cause you can't take an honorable loss over a ******** victory.

 

[BadAxel97]

MK is boring.

Brawl, to me, is cool because of the complicated network of ifs, ands, and buts that happens when one character (or both!) is off balance. The most common complaint leveled at Brawl from people who base their arguments on game theory is that the defensive options are so good that the game always reverts to its base state with just two characters separated and trying to approach each other. This complaint ONLY applies to games of Brawl which feature MK.

Approach MK from above, below, or the side, and MK always has an instantaneous, long range, disjointed attack with medium-high knockback and negligible lag. There is no direction which is better to try to combo him than another. If something isn't a 100% guaranteed combo, MK always has a combo breaker which doesn't put him at any risk afterward. His light weight helps remove many of the true combos, too. Approach him when he's off the stage, and he still has all the same options he did before. Approach him when he's been in the air for 4 seconds and it's no different than if he were in the air for 1 second and only barely different than if he's on the ground.

Playing MK is definitely a test of skill. It is, however, always a test of the same skill, as MK's options are never any different, and he is never off balance or in his strongest position. There's no reason to try to box him into a particular position because there is no better or worse position for him to be in than the one he's currently at. Strategy never enters the picture, unless you count MK choosing a time to start stalling, which isn't supposed to be a part of the game anyway. Without any strategic interest to it, the game is exceptionally boring to watch and quite difficult to justify playing.

Brawl will have a longer lifespan without MK than it would with him, partly because Brawl is objectively speaking, from a game theory point of view, a better game without him. Frankly, even if MK sucked, Brawl would still be a better game if he were removed. That MK is the best character simply makes the problem a defining feature of the game, to the point where the game's flaws which only pertain to him are frequently generalized as being characteristic of the game itself.

I call bull****
MK has strengths and weaknesses, it just seems like whenever the pro-banners want to talk, his weaknesses seem to "magically disappear"
=.=
Don't be fooled by this guy.

 

[kirbywizard]

So if um Metaknight doesn't get banned I demand all non-metaknight users have Jiggs as a secondary.