Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Genome Squirrel]

I call bull****
MK has strengths and weaknesses, it just seems like whenever the pro-banners want to talk, his weaknesses seem to "magically disappear"
=.=
Don't be fooled by this guy.

so what are his weakness again

 

[BadAxel97]

@kirbywizard

...Why would I want to do that?

 

[Death01]

so what are his weakness again

well one weakness if you take advantage of it, is he is light/middle weight. and he doesn't have any projectiles. although sure he is fast, but if you play smart enough you could win.

 

[BadAxel97]

@Genome Squirrel

Are you trying to tell me that he has no weaknesses?
And that each time MK loses, it's pure luck?

Because, at the threat of being repetitive, that too is bull***

 

[adumbrodeus]

@Genome Squirrel

Are you trying to tell me that he has no weaknesses?
And that each time MK loses, it's pure luck?

Because, at the threat of being repetitive, that too is bull***

...

No, that means you beat the player, not the character, you exploited weaknesses in your opponent's abilities, instead of the character your opponent is playing.

 

[BadAxel97]

Yes, but that is how the game is.
You always beat the player, not the character.
Every fighting game will have a best player.
Nobody banned the "best" character in melee.
And besides, M2K has lost before too, and other good meta knights.
It's not luck, it's one player prevailing over another, despite the character they're using.

 

[Cloud9157]

MK weaknesses: Light and easily KO'd, no projectile, killing ability is average.

Even with no projectile, he has 5 jumps, so getting around them is not hard at all. Even with so-so kill power, he has Nair, Dsmash, Shuttle Loop and Fsmash to an extent.

You talk about prevailing over the other player, you're right. But face it, there is one Snake that is on par with M2K, and that is Ally obviously. You will get the occasional stars like Lain or Dojo beating him, but think of it more broadly, not just the top 10 players of a tournament.

MK dominates everyone who isn't Snake. Even then he goes so fricking close to even with him, it doesn't matter.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

i dislike when people make general statements
people need to use more examples

 

[Cassius.]

Is it 66% to get the idea of MK being banned to get considered by the dudes

if so, you guys who voted yes are **** outta luck lol

if not, d('-'o)

 

[NinjaFoxX]

examples? what examples? if there are any MK already knows how to get around it xD
or maybe the pro ban side has nothing else that can be used to make a claim at this point...

 

[Doom14]

just stfu and vote *inappropriate link*

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yes, but that is how the game is.
You always beat the player, not the character.
Every fighting game will have a best player.
Nobody banned the "best" character in melee.
And besides, M2K has lost before too, and other good meta knights.
It's not luck, it's one player prevailing over another, despite the character they're using.

Actually... that's bad character design.

Characters are SUPPOSED to have exploitable weaknesses and strength that balance each other out, otherwise you get essentially 50 copies of the same character.

Ultimately, yes, you beat the player, but in theory, you're supposed exploit the weaknesses in the character design to do that.


And I don't see how the rest of your comments have anything to do with what I actually SAID.


edit:

MK weaknesses: Light and easily KO'd, no projectile, killing ability is average.

Even with no projectile, he has 5 jumps, so getting around them is not hard at all. Even with so-so kill power, he has Nair, Dsmash, Shuttle Loop and Fsmash to an extent.

You talk about prevailing over the other player, you're right. But face it, there is one Snake that is on par with M2K, and that is Ally obviously. You will get the occasional stars like Lain or Dojo beating him, but think of it more broadly, not just the top 10 players of a tournament.

MK dominates everyone who isn't Snake. Even then he goes so fricking close to even with him, it doesn't matter.

Those aren't really weaknesses, because he's not really bad enough at them for them to really be exploitable, especially because of his great momentum cancels, and the difficulty in getting off-stage kos against him. Except for the projectile, but he IS a projectile.

 

[Cloud9157]

examples? what examples? if there are any MK already knows how to get around it xD
or maybe the pro ban side has nothing else that can be used to make a claim at this point...

Pro Ban gave so many **** claims... I don't think they could make another one if they tried, because they summed it up rather nicely.

 

[BadAxel97]

Actually... that's bad character design.

Characters are SUPPOSED to have exploitable weaknesses and strength that balance each other out, otherwise you get essentially 50 copies of the same character.

Ultimately, yes, you beat the player, but in theory, you're supposed exploit the weaknesses in the character design to do that.


And I don't see how the rest of your comments have anything to do with what I actually SAID.

Well, I can't think of a fighting game without a "best" player...
(if you can then I'd like to know it so I can pick it up)

@Genome Squirrel

I know how much you love examples...so I picked this one up for you
Diddy played great that round and deserved the win over MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K41pCe5ORCY&feature=PlayList&p=0D544006374548FD&index=0&playnext=1

 

['V']

Is it 66% to get the idea of MK being banned to get considered by the dudes

if so, you guys who voted yes are **** outta luck lol

if not, d('-'o)

It's 66% for the SBR to reach a full decision about this. It's nowhere near that number.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Well, I can't think of a fighting game without a "best" player...
(if you can then I'd like to know it so I can pick it up)

If they're well-designed, best characters should still have exploitable weaknesses. A poorly designed best character has no exploitable weaknesses.


My point is that MK is poorly designed.

 

[Cloud9157]

@Old Mocha

So they aren't going to reach a final decision on this because there wasn't 66% yes? Will they at least consider it?

 

['V']

If they're well-designed, best characters should still have exploitable weaknesses. A poorly designed best character has no exploitable weaknesses.


My point is that MK is poorly designed.

You could argue that it's also bad game design, but I'll leave that up for someone else to do.

 

[BadAxel97]

If they're well-designed, best characters should still have exploitable weaknesses. A poorly designed best character has no exploitable weaknesses.


My point is that MK is poorly designed.

Wait, so he doesn't have any exploitable weaknesses?
Huh...I thought we mentioned some of them...
Whatever.

 

[Doom14]

[url]www.ratemyart.com[/URL]

 

['V']

@Old Mocha

So they aren't going to reach a final decision on this because there wasn't 66% yes? Will they at least consider it?

I mean it has to be a 66% for the SBR votes themselves. I heard this poll will only put a little influence on it. The SBR I heard is also roughly even, so even if "yes" wins this poll, that's still a lot of ground to cover for pro-ban to reach that number.

Edit @ BadAxel: He does, it's just very hard to actually exploit them.

 

[Death01]

Pro Ban gave so many **** claims... I don't think they could make another one if they tried, because they summed it up rather nicely.

I actually like the argument of skill.. and that if your going to play on a competitive level and not recognize that maybe a perma ban is over doing it because you just need to calm down and build up your skill further. sure players like m2k win almost all the time, but him and what maybe a few other MK players? really a permanent ban is too far.
Temporary would be the way to go, if a ban is to be done. or we could not ban any character (just to be crazy) and acquire some more skill and experience and work on strengths or weakness or whatever u need to work on for your character, but some ppl have to accept that if you can't beat someone in a competition and they happen to be MK, maybe they have some skill and they worked on it... which is what every one needs more time to do with their chars... apparently.

 

[rvkevin]

If you didn't get the reference, I was making fun of Le Thien, who disagrees with whatever the current consensus of the MK-Diddy matchup is (isn't it 55-45 MK or closer to even, I know it's close) and fears that Diddy's worst nightmare is an MK who used to main Diddy and knows the character perfectly.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that any character's worst nightmare is a player that knows everything about that particular character and could probably counteract to stop anything that the character in question does.

What he said had nothing to do with the character...It had everything to do with Diddy's bananas...He was referencing that current MK's (except Dojo) have poor item management that is not related to character design, but due to their inexperience with dealing with items. All he said was that when MK's learn how to use bananas to their advantage (They didn't necessarily have to main Diddy, someone that plays against Diddy on a regular basis would be jsut as bad), they will be a force to reckon with and shift the matchup more in their favor...Not like this is anything new, MK users have so called even matchups and then they go and learn the matchup and it shifts in their favor again. And before you say anything about the Diddy v. MK match up, let me ask you when the last time M2K lost to a Diddy?

 

[BadAxel97]

I actually like the argument of skill.. and that if your going to play on a competitive level and not recognize that maybe a perma ban is over doing it because you just need to calm down and build up your skill further. sure players like m2k win almost all the time, but him and what maybe a few other MK players? really a permanent ban is too far.
Temporary would be the way to go, if a ban is to be done. or we could not ban any character (just to be crazy) and acquire some more skill and experience and work on strengths or weakness or whatever u need to work on for your character, but some ppl have to accept that if you can't beat someone in a competition and they happen to be MK, maybe they have some skill and they worked on it... which is what every one needs more time to do with their chars... apparently.

I'm sorry, but a temp ban is the very worst idea...
This has already been said, but I might as well refresh you =.=
If MK leaves, then all the metagames and strategies against him will not be practiced anymore, and then when he comes back, it will be even worse because people will have forgotten how to play against him.
In the end, temp-ban would just be another form of pro-ban.

 

[Death01]

What he said had nothing to do with the character...It had everything to do with Diddy's bananas...He was referencing that current MK's (except Dojo) have poor item management that is not related to character design, but due to their inexperience with dealing with items. All he said was that when MK's learn how to use bananas to their advantage (They didn't necessarily have to main Diddy, someone that plays against Diddy on a regular basis would be jsut as bad), they will be a force to reckon with and shift the matchup more in their favor...Not like this is anything new, MK users have so called even matchups and then they go and learn the matchup and it shifts in their favor again. And before you say anything about the Diddy v. MK match up, let me ask you when the last time M2K lost to a Diddy?

This is true.

And before you say anything about the Diddy v. MK match up, let me ask you when the last time M2K lost to a Diddy?

I was wondering if M2K is the only Noteworthy Meta Knight Pro? because everyone i noticed brings him up...

 

[BadAxel97]

This is true.


I was wondering if M2K is the only Noteworthy Meta Knight Pro? because everyone i noticed brings him up...

I think hat's just because he's the best...
And this sort of brings up the beating the character vs beating the player argument...
M2K is really dominant, and he was really good in melee too...without MK.
Maybe asking when the last time M2K lost to a Diddy isn't a very good question...maybe you should just ask when is the last time a good MK lost to a Diddy...
Because M2K doesn't lose that much anyway...
(Not saying he doesn't...just saying that wasn't the best choice of player)

 

[Death01]

I'm sorry, but a temp ban is the very worst idea...
This has already been said, but I might as well refresh you =.=
If MK leaves, then all the metagames and strategies against him will not be practiced anymore, and then when he comes back, it will be even worse because people will have forgotten how to play against him.
In the end, temp-ban would just be another form of pro-ban.

So let me get this straight... your telling me a temp ban is bad... because ppl will stop practicing against MK's..?
Do you realize how ridiculously ******** that sounds.
When they should use the time to build their skill and experience to at least maybe match MK.
You would think logically that the MK Players would maybe forget some things or become rusty, but you tell me we all decide to be idiots..? and sit back grow rusty with the mk players...

I think hat's just because he's the best...

So were banning M2K and a bunch of possible other pros...? which i didn't think there were that many worth banning...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Use it to airdodge. It works wonders for your recovery. L-canceling is used for every character too.

Why place myself ina free fall position when I can just as easily move away then move back in and slap you?
Since when has a jiggly ever really needed to L cancel

Marth's and Falco's D-air's are not meteor smashes in Melee, but they still spike. They're powerful too.

In PAL all spikes are meteor smashes.

 

[BadAxel97]

So let me get this straight... your telling me a temp ban is bad... because ppl will stop practicing against MK's..?
Do you realize how ridiculously ******** that sounds.
When they should use the time to build their skill and experience to at least maybe match MK.
You would think logically that the MK Players would maybe forget some things or become rusty, but you tell me we all decide to be idiots..? and sit back grow rusty with the mk players...

The mk players won't become rusty because they will still practice them in their non-tourney time.
On the other hand, the non-mk players won't be able to play the MK's in non-tournament settings.

The vs. MK strategies will stop to develop.

And yeah, that is sort of what I'm saying, minus the sarcastic undertone.

 

[Death01]

Quote
Marth's and Falco's D-air's are not meteor smashes in Melee, but they still spike. They're powerful too.
Quote
Someone Said this? lol This is almost as good as the ban.

 

[1048576]

If MK isn't banned it will be like electing John McCain, except four times over.

 

[BadAxel97]

...But I thought the Republicans were pro-ban.
lol

 

[Death01]

The mk players won't become rusty because they will still practice them in their non-tourney time.
On the other hand, the non-mk players won't be able to play the MK's in non-tournament settings.

The vs. MK strategies will stop to develop.

And yeah, that is sort of what I'm saying, minus the sarcastic undertone.

So What... the MK players are just going to play eachother or something? who are they going to play?
They would have to change something for themselves.. see it wouldn't be the same for them either. they would maybe get better at beating each other or what ever, but if your saying you won't be able to play them then they are going to more than likely to be looking for good competition to play against as well.

So you could still improve. you guys just need to think this through a little more. What if your wrong and they want to play some friendlies here and there? play them, test your skill, experience, and what not. see what needs to be done. maybe MK won't seem as broken in about 3-5 months or if you want longer fine go ahead i don't care.

 

[BadAxel97]

So What... the MK players are just going to play eachother or something? who are they going to play?
They would have to change something for themselves.. see it wouldn't be the same for them either. they would maybe get better at beating each other or what ever, but if your saying you won't be able to play them then they are going to more than likely to be looking for good competition to play against as well.

So you could still improve. you guys just need to think this through a little more. What if your wrong and they want to play some friendlies here and there? play them, test your skill, experience, and what not. see what needs to be done. maybe MK won't seem as broken in about 3-5 months or if you want longer fine go ahead i don't care.

So what, you're pro temp-ban?

 

[Death01]

So what, you're pro temp-ban?

its better than perma ban.

 

[BadAxel97]

Everyone has their own opinion...

 

[M4ge]

So...seems that the votes are AGAIN in favor of pro-ban, but still not 2/3 percent. Wasn't it like this the other three times? Isn't this one of the reasons they kept making more polls like this one? I say just go with the ban. If you need 4 different polls to decide whether to ban a character and EACH one is in favor of pro-ban, you should just go through with it.

God forbid you can't just unban him if things go bad.

 

[Death01]

Everyone has their own opinion...

yeah and thats mine. In fact in my opinion its a good one, even though your real competition your all afraid of is about to be banned (M2K any other Pros up there)... but oh well... besides this goes if you want to go by these rulings i guess too...

 

[rvkevin]

I think hat's just because he's the best...
And this sort of brings up the beating the character vs beating the player argument...
M2K is really dominant, and he was really good in melee too...without MK.
Maybe asking when the last time M2K lost to a Diddy isn't a very good question...maybe you should just ask when is the last time a good MK lost to a Diddy...
Because M2K doesn't lose that much anyway...
(Not saying he doesn't...just saying that wasn't the best choice of player)

Depends on how you determine the ratio. If you compare the metagames of each character to each other, with the metagame being determined by the best player of that character (If ADHD beats Jem, its irrelevent because ADHD is playing Diddy to his current potential while Jem is not playing MK to his potential, while M2K is), you would compare the best MK to the best Diddy, which in this case is M2K and ADHD, NL, etc...So the question stands, when was the last time the best Diddy (or any Diddy for that matter) beat the best MK? Even if you broaden it to top MKs to top Diddys, I would venture a guess that it is still favorably for MK.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

So...seems that the votes are AGAIN in favor of pro-ban, but still not 2/3 percent. Wasn't it like this the other three times? Isn't this one of the reasons they kept making more polls like this one? I say just go with the ban. If you need 4 different polls to decide whether to ban a character and EACH one is in favor of pro-ban, you should just go through with it.

God forbid you can't just unban him if things go bad.

part of me wanted metaknight to get banned by an internet poll, just for the lulz
this community has its quirks. they won't ban a zero to death infinite, but indirectly banning an iffy stalling technique is accepted.

(i'm against banning either)