Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Red Arremer]

Hypothetical:
Everyone in SBR votes anti-ban, and everyone not in SBR votes pro ban.Who wins?

In this poll it would be the Pro-Ban side.

 

[Chuee]

@MarKO X:

Items aren't playable. O rly? - Yes rly, items were banned for a reason
You can spike an incoming Meta with a forward spike. (Like DK's or Mario's) Those are way too slow. MK can just Fair through it. Spiking isn't really gimping btw
Which move is his momentum cancel? You mean like Bucket Braking? MK can momentum cancel with his Drill Rush but it's pretty useless. His Uairs don't allow him to live anywhere near as much longer as G&W bucket brake does.
Which ones are broken? You can grab them out of a DSmash and Shuttle Loop's knockback isn't that devastating. (Unless you're off the stage) You can punish Dsmash if you have a quick attack with good range like Dancing Blade. You'd have to perfect shield the Dsmash to shield grab him.
You don't have to attack him while he's in the air, he just can't "chase" you while you're both in the air. You don't have to do a lot of things. lolwut?
Long-range: Being able to attack the foe without worrying about being punished immediately afterward. Isn't that pretty much the definition of spacing?

10greenwordsFTW

 

[SnowballBob33]

If MK does his down smash on Final Destination, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[UberMario]

You don't necessarily have to perfect shield the down smash, when you grab someone you obtain super armor temporarily. (You take damage, but grab them anyway)

 

[Alus]

If MK does his down smash on Final Destination, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The sound is fap...

You don't necessarily have to perfect shield the down smash, when you grab someone you obtain super armor temporarily. (You take damage, but grab them anyway)

...

 

[REL38]

Hypothetical:
Everyone in SBR votes anti-ban, and everyone not in SBR votes pro ban.Who wins?

It's the SBR's ruleset, so they do. >_>

What!? I actually thought my opinion mattered for once /sarcasm

 

[betterthanbonds9]

You don't necessarily have to perfect shield the down smash, when you grab someone you obtain super armor temporarily. (You take damage, but grab them anyway)

i smell spammer/troll, i hope you aren't honestly this unintelligent

Check the OP.

SBR is 2/3, this poll is 1/3.

after reading the OP it sounds like SBR has a separate vote (where it sounds like the ENTIRE sbr votes) and then this poll adds an extra vote onto it for every 2.5% above for the majority.

so we add 3 votes to pro ban if it reaches 55%
2 votes if it reaches 52.5%-54.99%
and 1 vote if it's between 50-52.49%

how many people in the sbr get a vote?

 

[Red Arremer]

What!? I actually thought my opinion mattered for once /sarcasm

Your opinion doesn't matter if you post in obnoxious fonts and colors.

 

[MarKO X]

wow @ people falling for this trick question.
If everyone in the SBR votes anti-ban and everyone not in the SBR votes pro-ban, pro-ban wins.

Not every SBR member is a TO.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Tourney matters, it's the difference between $876 and $233, did they have a $600 mm? close=even? I still see MK winning it....

Yes, that answer that the matchup is in MK favor, not diddy's. Even if diddy does magically get better, what's to make this hypothetical situation immune to MK finding a way to beat diddy? Hypotheticals own, they are based on known facts and everything....

It doesn't.

But the thing is, there's clear evidence that Diddy can get better at the match-up, while there's only theory that MK can get better at it.

Yeah, but we're talking about the matchup that made Diddy popular, you should expect to see more than 1 diddy in the top 25 of the second biggest tournament for Brawl.

That's assuming that everyone's on equal skill and the same amount of people used each character.

How many Diddys were at Genesis, and how many of those were top placers in their region?

And don't those results show that Diddy is BETTER without MK (lol dojo used diddy...). Anyway, those results look a lot like genesis' with diddy replacing MK (snake is still #1). But honestly, hobo17 is impossible to use in this argument...there are so many reasons why diddy could do so well, and so many why snake could, and so many why etc. Let's stick to using normal tourney results. And not to mention that hobo's scale isn't quite that of genesis's in terms of the players that were there and who they all used...

I know.

But I'm saying, lack of certain characters/players in the top spots of a tournament doesn't mean that the character has a bad match-up with a character that did get in those top spots.

and back to the actually argument here (sorry about doing this kind of backwards) Yes, a lack of diddys in a group of results with a lot of MKs tells me that diddy needs to keep stepping their game up. (read the hypothetical arguement and you'll realize that arguing about future character development is in many ways, a moot point)

Again, I'm not saying that, "diddy might discover some banana trick that will beat MK!" I'm saying that a very good AT (single banana locking) and others aren't often used if at all in Diddy's metagame by top Diddys. MK doesn't have some known tech that no one uses due to tech-skill requirement/laziness. Combined with the trend that Diddy's been getting steadily better at the Diddy vs. MK match-up and there's known room for him to grow, there's much more evidence supporting the claim that he will get better at the match-up than the other way around.

We shouldn't even mention those 2 players, they are both 2222222222gud

klulz

Fox really doesn't do as well as he should right now. Yeah, he doesn't have a "disadvantage" but he gets into enough even matchups (and his popularity) make it possible to beat him (possible=/= easy). But the thing is, he can be combo'd to 60%, multiple characters can cg him, they use his weight as the basis for a lot of combos. And marth arguably can mess with him just as well as fox can mess with marth. Oh and the fact that puffs have figured out the matchup to a high degree mean that puffs are incredibly knowledgeable on their worst matchup.

if MK could be comboed to 60% or comboed after 60% by most of the rest of the top tier AND could be gimped, then yeah, Fox would be like MK.

I really do need to get SF4 though, i haven't heard a bad thing about it, i just don't own a PS3 or 360, sorry

That smiley is giving me seizures lol.

Sure Fox can get combod a bunch by most characters, but it's in a game where combos are inherent to the game. Yeah, his fast-fallness is combo bait and is a really bad weakness, but it's not a unique weakness, as all of the cast can be combod by some character another (lolfox and falco). It doesn't make his even match-ups against his favor. If anything, it just suggests that Fox's "even" match-ups are more "even" than MKs "even" match-ups.

Meh. Time to do other stuff that isn't this thread, I might be back later tonight (if anyone really cares lol)

 

[Espy Rose]

Your opinion doesn't matter if you post in obnoxious fonts and colors.

Nor does it matter if you aren't in the SBR.

 

[adumbrodeus]

wow @ people falling for this trick question.
If everyone in the SBR votes anti-ban and everyone not in the SBR votes pro-ban, pro-ban wins.

Not every SBR member is a TO.

No.


A lot of TO's will follow the SBR's ruleset, as per the rules in the thread, victory for a side is achieved by winning the total vote by a sufficient margin.


Whether or not TO's will follow it is a side issue.


Now then, since this is appropriate (since you were asking a different question, but made it seem like you were asking the one we answered):

 

[MarKO X]

why would a TO not ban MK when all but 70-100 members of the community are anti-ban?

 

[Chuee]

You don't necessarily have to perfect shield the down smash, when you grab someone you obtain super armor temporarily. (You take damage, but grab them anyway)

*facepalm*
When the Dsmash hits your shield, you're knocked back a little bit. Your not gonna get a shield grab from that unless your D3.

 

[Hella]

Had this happened last year...

...I might still be playing Brawl.

Maybe.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

But I'm saying, lack of certain characters/players in the top spots of a tournament doesn't mean that the character has a bad match-up with a character that did get in those top spots.

but it does mean they got beat

Again, I'm not saying that, "diddy might discover some banana trick that will beat MK!" I'm saying that a very good AT (single banana locking) and others aren't often used if at all in Diddy's metagame by top Diddys. MK doesn't have some known tech that no one uses due to tech-skill requirement/laziness. Combined with the trend that Diddy's been getting steadily better at the Diddy vs. MK match-up and there's known room for him to grow, there's much more evidence supporting the claim that he will get better at the match-up than the other way around.

applications of techniques just means that falco should laser lock everybody... We should just not argue this lol, we both have arguments that go unanswerable due to requiring the future to prove, which is obviously not able to be proven in the present , k? No ground will be made here.

That smiley is giving me seizures lol.

Sure Fox can get combod a bunch by most characters, but it's in a game where combos are inherent to the game. Yeah, his fast-fallness is combo bait and is a really bad weakness, but it's not a unique weakness, as all of the cast can be combod by some character another (lolfox and falco). It doesn't make his even match-ups against his favor. If anything, it just suggests that Fox's "even" match-ups are more "even" than MKs "even" match-ups.

colorful is the best

underlined part: exactly the engine is a major reason why brawl's even is not the same as other games' "evens." I'm glad we agree there :D. And yes, fox, falco, and falcon are all incredibly easy to combo, it's the price those characters pay for being awesome.

Meh. Time to do other stuff that isn't this thread, I might be back later tonight (if anyone really cares lol)

i hear ya, im out as well. I'm glad that you're one of the few people on here that don't ad hominem every chance they get :D. ****, i have summer hw i should be doing....

 

[Jamnt0ast]

Everyone posting that they want MK banned because he's "broken" doesnt know what this debate is about and is soiling the results.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

the same could be said about all the MK mains voting yes just because they don't want to switch

unfortunately, there really is no way to purify results in polls like these.

The real point of this thread, IMHO, is just to see where the community stands and to teach those who want/need to understand the debate, not so much OMG 66% BAN NOW!

Because I think even if this poll did get those results, there'd still be multiple steps before a possible ban.

 

[Alus]

Everyone posting that they want MK banned because he's "broken" doesnt know what this debate is about and is soiling the results.

WTF are you talking about?

I don't understand exactly what you are saying...

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

WTF are you talking about?

I don't understand exactly what you are saying...

i assumed he meant "Voting pro-ban simply on the basis that "MK IS BROKEN!" is wrong, and just ruins the result.

 

[Death01]

The thing with the "It's only been a year" argument is that he's just too far ahead of other characters. I'm positive that no matter how others develop, what new ATs or mindgames they discover or create, MK will still be abusing each character's weaknesses the same way he still is, and the things he does now will still be done afterwards.

Im just saying no one considered a temporary ban giving the other chars time to catch up in other words ban mk for about 6-8months then see what happens, why not?

 

[Alus]

i assumed he meant "Voting pro-ban simply on the basis that "MK IS BROKEN!" is wrong, and just ruins the result.

Oh...

I read it as " If you are arguing whether Metaknight is or is not broken, then you have no idea what the debate is about."

 

[adumbrodeus]

Im just saying no one considered a temporary ban giving the other chars time to catch up in other words ban mk for about 6-8months then see what happens, why not?

You and everyone else in the entire ****ing universe dude.

General problems are it hurts the anti-mk metagame without really helping other characters, making it worse when he comes back.

 

['V']

DETAILS
S Rank «Uber» 48.51%
1 Meta Knight (76 top8, 51 top4, 24 top2, 26 wins) - 1691.0
2 Snake (47 top8, 25 top4, 16 top2, 21 wins) - 1114.3

A Rank «Overused» 30.52%
3 Falco (23 top8, 9 top4, 12 top2, 4 wins) - 301.8

Most up to date rankings. Notice how the gap is diminishing between Meta Knight and Snake, but the gap between Snake and Falco is getting larger.

 

[Death01]

You and everyone else in the entire ****ing universe dude.

General problems are it hurts the anti-mk metagame without really helping other characters, making it worse when he comes back.

wow just making suggestions geeze maybe if u still play the MK players in friendlies it won't hurt so much or you can stop worrying about MK and worry about your own Char improvements instead.. in other words calm down think about all options thoroughly which it sounds like u didin't.
maybe u worry too much which is the possible cause of your losing to mk... MK is beatable as well as Unbeatable, both are true, but have him fall behind somehow... by baning him from as many as all tournament play temporarily even if it would take a 2 year ban do it. At least Until the Majority Of ppl can actually beat a MK. remember its just a game... i vote for a temp ban if anything again.

 

[UberMario]

i smell spammer/troll

I'm not spamming, I'm serious! You can obtain damage AND grab someone at the same time! I do it all the time on wi-fi. (Maybe it's a wi-fi thing)

 

[Sosuke]

wow just making suggestions geeze maybe if u still play the MK players in friendlies it won't hurt so much or you can stop worrying about MK and worry about your own Char improvements instead.. in other words calm down think about all options thoroughly which it sounds like u didin't.
maybe u worry too much which is the possible cause of your losing to mk... MK is beatable as well as Unbeatable, both are true, but have him fall behind somehow... by baning him from as many as all tournament play temporarily even if it would take a 2 year ban do it. At least Until the Majority Of ppl can actually beat a MK. remember its just a game... i vote for a temp ban if anything again.

I'm not sure if the word "logic" can even be applied to this post.

 

[Death01]

I'm not sure if the word "logic" can even be applied to this post.

my stand on the situation is a Temporary Ban not A Permanent Ban if you read my posts thoroughly you would know why.

 

[Alus]

I'm not spamming, I'm serious! You can obtain damage AND grab someone at the same time! I do it all the time on wi-fi. (Maybe it's a wi-fi thing)

Yeah... we know...
but grabs > MK Dsmash ?

Are you sure?

 

[Chaos0419]

So it doesn't look like MK is going to get banned...

I guess those that keep *****ing can either learn the match-up better or quit the game!!!

 

[BBQTV]

i was thinking of quiting if he got bannd so if he dosent get bannd will pro ban quit

So it doesn't look like MK is going to get banned...

I guess those that keep *****ing can either learn the match-up better or quit the game!!!

i was going to quit if MK got bannd so will pro ban quit if MK is not bannd?

 

[Chaos0419]

Don't really care. To me, those who want to ban characters who aren't broken are bad for the game anyway.

 

[Uffe]

So it doesn't look like MK is going to get banned...

I guess those that keep *****ing can either learn the match-up better or quit the game!!!

If learning the match up is key, then Meta Knight will have an advantage, as he already does, when he learns how to deal with other characters in the roster. So technically learning the match up to overcome Meta Knight doesn't seem foolproof.

Don't really care. To me, those who want to ban characters who aren't broken are bad for the game anyway.

I guess most of the pros at Brawl suck then.

 

[Strong Badam]

Most up to date rankings. Notice how the gap is diminishing between Meta Knight and Snake, but the gap between Snake and Falco is getting larger.

notice how it doesn't matter and only points to the terrible imbalance in this game and nothing else.

 

[MarKO X]

I guess most of the pros at Brawl suck then.

Durrrr.
If you can't beat MetaKnight, you must suck.

 

[kirbywizard]

Durrrr.
If you can't beat MetaKnight, you must suck.

That or fight Metaknight using characters like Luigi.

I wonder who does that. . . . o wait me but I use Jigglypuff which for some reason doesn't do so bad against Metaknight.

 

[Craeter]

I have no problems against MKs, maybe thats because I main D3 though.
/shrug

 

['V']

notice how it doesn't matter and only points to the terrible imbalance in this game and nothing else.

Yeah... That's what I was trying to get at, really.

 

[Uffe]

Durrrr.
If you can't beat MetaKnight, you must suck.

I'm talking about pros, not average players, thanks.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

If learning the match up is key, then Meta Knight will have an advantage, as he already does, when he learns how to deal with other characters in the roster. So technically learning the match up to overcome Meta Knight doesn't seem foolproof.

what about staying one step ahead of your opponent bb