Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[MarKO X]

To clarify the rule confusion:
Infinite Dimensional Cape (IDC) is banned officially.
Extended Dimensional Cape (EDC) is not banned at all.
The Ledgegrab Rule is not banned officially, many tournaments use it, though (which means Planking isn't banned either).
Aircamping/Airplanking is not banned at all.

And this coming fresh from a man in the SBR?


Something tells me that I have found a new main.

inb4urstillgonnagetwrecked

i know this. but with practice, you'll see.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I don't understand the problem with banning EDC. They banned IDC in an instant.

 

[Master Raven]

lol air planking is the silliest term I've ever heard of

have you guys heard of Wario?

 

[Red Arremer]

And this coming fresh from a man in the SBR?

I just checked the SBR tournament ruleset (found here). It says nothing about Aircamping, EDC or Planking/Ledgegrab limits.

While Planking is considered to be banned and banned at several tournaments by using a ledgegrab rule, this is not the case in the official ruleset.

 

[Alus]

You can work at a steel mill and make $7 an hour, or you can work at safeway and get $10 an hour.

Ok...you got me there...

 

[DanGR]

To clarify the rule confusion:
Infinite Dimensional Cape (IDC) is banned officially.
Extended Dimensional Cape (EDC) is not banned at all.
The Ledgegrab Rule is not established officially, many tournaments use it, though (which means Planking isn't banned either).
Aircamping/Airplanking is not banned at all.

Edit: Sorry, got words confused, lol.

Just so you know, many of us couldn't care any less about whether it's officially banned or not. The fact that most tournaments (including every large tournament) bans planking is what I'm refuting, and is what I'm against.

Likewise, if MK was "officially" banned and no tournament organizers followed that precedent, people would still be debating over it.

 

[Overclassed]

I don't understand the problem with banning EDC. They banned IDC in an instant.

 

[swordgard]

I don't understand the problem with banning EDC. They banned IDC in an instant.

IDC is infinite, therefore any duration, no way to predict its limitation.


EDC is just extending it pressing up and down on control stick in order to extend lenght because everytime you touch the ground its extended. Its still not infinite and cannot be done forever.

 

[Kamikaze*]

IDC is infinite, therefore any duration, no way to predict its limitation.


EDC is just extending it pressing up and down on control stick in order to extend lenght because everytime you touch the ground its extended. Its still not infinite and cannot be done forever.

Yeah, but obviously EDC is buffing him. We want to keep him in the game. We can't do that if we are going to leave in an AT that buffs him. We should try to keep MK the way he was when brawl first came out.

 

[Sinistar]

I told you guys Meta Knight would be god tier.

Ridley member, out!

 

[BBQTV]

how about they band MK but unband smash ball fair compromise

 

[Red Arremer]

Just so you know, many of us couldn't care any less about whether it's officially banned or not. The fact that most tournaments (including every large tournament) bans planking is what I'm refuting, and is what I'm against.

Well, I personally am against banning Planking as long as it didn't show to have any effect on tournaments.
If someone highly dominates with it at more tournaments than one or two sets (and really, DaPuffster vs. Plank is not a valid argument for that, lol), then I'm all for banning it.

For now I'm for investigating it. The same goes for EDC, really.

 

[swordgard]

Yeah, but obviously EDC is buffing him. We want to keep him in the game. We can't do that if we are going to leave in an AT that buffs him. We should try to keep MK the way he was when brawl first came out.

Its not warranted, nor discrete nor enforceable. You cant ban it.

 

[Overclassed]

how about they band MK but unband smash ball fair compromise

 

[Master Raven]

Someone should try winning a tourney with GW by planking.

The thing is people don't have the guts to play like a gigantic *** that much, which is why you don't see much serious planking in tourneys most of the time.

I am not saying it should be or should not be banned either, I just know there are people who claim that GW can plank just as well as MK, so I'd like to see this myself.

 

[BBQTV]

oh noes evil kitty ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gamegenie222]

oh i'll start making the tea and crumpets now

Where's my mother****ing chicken and waffles.

 

[DanGR]

Well, I personally am against banning Planking as long as it didn't show to have any effect on tournaments.
If someone highly dominates with it at more tournaments than one or two sets (and really, DaPuffster vs. Plank is not a valid argument for that, lol), then I'm all for banning it.

For now I'm for investigating it. The same goes for EDC, really.

Well, I'm really just playing the devil's advocate right now. I think planking should be banned for the same reason I think Meta Knight should be banned. (which I'm not going to get into right now)

When I saw the anti-ban side in the OP bring up that it is "within the realm of human ability" to beat MK and they use that as an argument against banning him, I point to all forms of stalling, air camping, planking, etc. The fact of the matter is that they are all entirely beatable and have not been proven otherwise in a tournament setting. Simply put, it's hypocritical.

edit: Sorry, not hypocritical. I'm looking for a different word...

 

[Sinistar]

I have missed much on this forum for a while.

What is planking, and what makes Meta Knight so cheap?

There should be to learn from mistakes, if Smashboards have seriously stepped down so low as to ban a character when Marth was never banned from Melee just deeply saddens me.

inb4 CalvinandHobbescomicpic

 

[DarkPikmin]

I have missed much on this forum for a while.

What is planking, and what makes Meta Knight so cheap?

There should be to learn from mistakes, if Smashboards have seriously stepped down so low as to ban a character when Marth was never banned from Melee just deeply saddens me.

inafter CalvinandHobbescomicpics

*fixed
No one has given a solid argument on planking yet? Someone please enlighten us

 

[de feuve]

Sinistar just read the first post of the topic, your post shows you did not. You are not the only one I think

 

[WindMajor]

Well, I'm really just playing the devil's advocate right now. I think planking should be banned for the same reason I think Meta Knight should be banned. (which I'm not going to get into right now)

When I saw the anti-ban side in the OP bring up that it is "within the realm of human ability" to beat MK and they use that as an argument against banning him, I point to all forms of stalling, air camping, planking, etc. The fact of the matter is that they are all entirely beatable and have not been proven otherwise in a tournament setting. Simply put, it's hypocritical.

edit: Sorry, not hypocritical. I'm looking for a different word...

Hypothetical?

 

[superyoshi888]

There should be to learn from mistakes, if Smashboards have seriously stepped down so low as to ban a character when Marth was never banned from Melee just deeply saddens me.

inb4 CalvinandHobbescomicpic

Meta Knight is not going to be banned....it's statistically impossible. It does bother me that he has been considered for it, but it doesn't suprise me.

Planking is basically just a form of stalling used for positioning, if I understand it correctly.

 

[SmashChu]

People who play primarily online are unlikely to care about MK being banned at tournaments.

The point was that it would only cause more confusion and distance between competative Smash players and everyone else. There is little to no respect for the Smash community from other communities and other Smash fans

Just two things:

1. In online tournaments, Snake is the leading character with Olimar not too far behind. I should know, I'm a regular member of the OTL board and I have hosted 11 tournaments with all but two being at least 32 people and 6 being 64 people. The characters you mentioned are dominant in Anyone battles, not competitive online smash.

Again, tournament, meaning that the rules are already set up to "break" the game. My point was that the game everyone here is playing is not the same as most Smash fans are playing. This is why Meta-Knight does not flood online matches but Ike does.

2. This decision doesn't concern other fighting communities, this is our decision and our decision alone. No matter what we do, Brawl will never be a respected fighting community. Heck, we still have a decent number of fighting communities who raise an eyebrow when you tell them that Melee and Smash Bros were competitive. Smash Bros will probably always be judged by its casual community rather than its competitive. Despite this, I still love this community because its the only community where the competitive and casual are side by side like how I interact with you, KumoOso, Flyinfillipino, and pieman on a regular basis despite the fact that I host tournaments and you guys are thrown in the box called "casual" and I'm thrown in the box called "competitive."

Smash is hated by other communities and Smash fans because they ban everything (this is why 4chan raided Smashboards). That why I'm saying that if Meta-Knight is banned, you all will never live it down. Again, what I'm saying is a publicity reason. It's not good for the community's image if MK is banned.

Basically, I'm concerned for you simply because you are "casual." This is a community that still blames the casual community for the faults that Brawl has and if you try to speak on behalf of the competitive community, people will try to rip you apart because of the enormous stigma that still exists. As I said, you are a respected member of the SSB4 discussion thread and one of the few people who I would call "leaders" of that community but people won't care about that here. You are casual and under those standards, most people will give you the label of being a "scrub." As I said before, you don't deserve that so I'm suggesting that you don't speak on behalf of the competitive community.

I'll be fine. Or I wont post.

 

[Red Arremer]

When I saw the anti-ban side in the OP bring up that it is "within the realm of human ability" to beat MK and they use that as an argument against banning him, I point to all forms of stalling, air camping, planking, etc. The fact of the matter is that they are all entirely beatable and have not been proven otherwise in a tournament setting. Simply put, it's hypocritical.

Yes, and I'm absolutely against banning aircamping because every character should be able to beat it because it's not like the characters doing this (which mainly is actually Wario) are in the air for 8 minutes, unreachable.

Furthermore, infinite Chaingrabs are stalling, too. Stalling is, as defined in the SBR Ruleset:
"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling."

I am against banning strategies in general if they aren't investigated, and especially against
banning them if they haven't had any extreme impact on a tournament. This doesn't mean one or two sets now and then, I mean like, really really dominating a tournament by just using this technique.
The IDC, though, is a glitch that can be used for Stalling. Since it's hard to determine if the user of an IDC is stalling or not, the tactic has simply been banned.

I remember people bringing up the comparison with Akuma's Fireball. Akuma's Fireball is in his game and was programmed to work like it is, so it is indeed part of the character.
I'm pretty sure that the developers of Brawl didn't intend to have something like the IDC happen, hence it's a glitch that is able to break the game - thus has to be banned.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

you sure are cute arent you

 

[DanGR]

Hypothetical?

No... I'm looking for a word that describes a person that won't ban Meta Knight because he's beatable, but will ban planking/stalling/etc. even though those are beatable...


edit: Spadefox, I'll respond to your post in a bit. I'm going to eat first.
edit2: Thank you, Successor of Raphael.

It's a double standard. >_>

 

[Brinzy]

Hypocritical? Contradictory? Double-standardized?

you sure are cute arent you

Yessir he is.

 

[Gamegenie222]

The point was that it would only cause more confusion and distance between competative Smash players and everyone else. There is little to no respect for the Smash community from other communities and other Smash fans


Again, tournament, meaning that the rules are already set up to "break" the game. My point was that the game everyone here is playing is not the same as most Smash fans are playing. This is why Meta-Knight does not flood online matches but Ike does.


Smash is hated by other communities and Smash fans because they ban everything (this is why 4chan raided Smashboards). That why I'm saying that if Meta-Knight is banned, you all will never live it down. Again, what I'm saying is a publicity reason. It's not good for the community's image if MK is banned.


I'll be fine. Or I wont post.

That what i basically said a few days ago on this thread. plus when the hell 4chan raided this website.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

That what i basically said a few days ago on this thread. plus when the hell 4chan raided this website.

when people have nothing intelligent to say

 

[Gamegenie222]

when people have nothing intelligent to say

Hey Iam not ready to start an arguement or some other BS today.

 

[munkus beaver]

No... I'm looking for a word that describes a person that won't ban Meta Knight because he's beatable, but will ban planking/stalling/etc. even though those are beatable...


edit: Spadefox, I'll respond to your post in a bit. I'm going to eat first.

A reasonable human being?

Those things are banned because it changes the game from fighting into a game about planking/stalling.

It's a fighting game. MK is beatable by fighting. He is beatable by characters other than MK. If you hop on the logic train it will lead you out of the great state of Denial and reach its destination at the corner of Sound Conclusion and Not-Banned MK.

 

[phi1ny3]

No... I'm looking for a word that describes a person that won't ban Meta Knight because he's beatable, but will ban planking/stalling/etc. even though those are beatable...


edit: Spadefox, I'll respond to your post in a bit. I'm going to eat first.

Fickle? Contradictory? I dunno

I honestly want planking to be tested with more scrutiny, although I still bear a grudge against Plank to this day because of it (not that I entirely have a problem with it).

 

[adumbrodeus]

Its not warranted, nor discrete nor enforceable. You cant ban it.

I think the main issue with EDC is that it's not really distinguishable in a discrete enforceable way from IDC, because they only difference is the number of times you extend it.

Honestly, that's a major concern with tournament play, and unless somebody comes up with a good ruling to limit it, merits the technique being banned entirely under the umbrella of IDC.


Basically, if EDC isn't banned but IDC is, can't your opponent simply claim he was using EDC instead of IDC without an explicit rule that differentiates them?

I like how every time I come in this thread, no one responds to my posts with any intelligent rebuttals. I just get a bunch of crap with factual errors, strawman, logical fallacies, etc.

My question still stands. (addressing the anti-ban side) Why are planking/IDC banned? They are beatable within the realm of human ability, and they can be beaten at the top levels of play.

IDC is banned because it overcentralizes the metagame. The principal behind ALL infinite stalls is the same, once you obtain a percent lead and activate the infinite stall, it's essentially game over.

This was found to overcentralize the metagame, because it's just an enormous advantage to need only a percent advantage that it results in the character that has it being the only viable character and the tactic becoming the only viable tactic. If more characters then one have it, it still is the only viable tactic, but only the characters that can do it are viable. Because IDC is an infinite stall, it was banned on statutory grounds. This meant that we do did not have to explore the other possible implications of the technique.


Planking is NOT an infinite stall and should not be banned. It remains an untested strategy and has not been proven banworthy.

 

[MarKO X]

A reasonable human being?

Those things are banned because it changes the game from fighting into a game about planking/stalling.

It's a fighting game. MK is beatable by fighting. He is beatable by characters other than MK. If you hop on the logic train it will lead you out of the great state of Denial and reach its destination at the corner of Sound Conclusion and Not-Banned MK.

if planking is a fighting style, then what is the problem?

 

[MXblaze]

Lol, this is stupid. MK shouldn't be banned. Learn how to fight him. Please. Instead of whining

 

[munkus beaver]

if planking is a fighting style, then what is the problem?

It's the opposite of a fighting style. The goal is not to put yourself in an advantageous defensive position, the point is to get ahead and let time expire. It's a stalling tactic, not a fighting tactic.

 

[MXblaze]

In hobo 17 there were 4 diddys in the top 8

Sure, diddy may have counters, but he was still used a lot. Other characters will still be used too much too with MK gone. Even if he does have counters.

Your over-centralization argument is weak.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's the opposite of a fighting style. The goal is not to put yourself in an advantageous defensive position, the point is to get ahead and let time expire. It's a stalling tactic, not a fighting tactic.

It doesn't matter what the "point" is. It matters what the effect is. It doesn't grant unlimited invincibility. It just creates an advantageous defensive position.

 

[BBQTV]

MK is not the best random is