SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
Ally can beat M2K, no johns
-
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Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
- Status
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
And I thought Palpi making typos, then editing his post one million times was banned
Oh, and MarKO... seriously, that's such a horrible argument. Your logic is beyond flawed.
If the world ran on that logic, we would all literally be dead.
what JB is saying is fairly true i mean i would say 75% of the people posting haven't ever won a tournament maybe haven't even participated in 1 for you guys to say "naw son i faced a MK on wifi and 2 stocked him" as a reason for the anti-ban side just is too funny
like some guy said before "Theres combos in brawl"
QFT if you think that you are no where near a top player therefore anything you say from now on will sad enough to say not count as much to me and to some people here
*sigh*
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
I'm going to sleep now anyway.
I'm just saying that I don't have to be good to have an opinion. I do realize that what M2K says about a match-up will have more weight than mine. Him bringing it up in a match-up discussion like, "Lol, who are you anyway, I'm M2K," is just rude no matter how you put it, and that last post came off like that.
I want to keep him in because I firmly believe that he doesn't deserve a ban. Does it effect me much if he's banned? Not really. Will I quit if he's banned? Lol no. Am I even a good player in the first place? No. But I feel like he shouldn't be banned, and while I don't have as much experience as you or others (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean with that comment, seriously) in tournaments, I've seen in-person, watched youtube videos, lurked discussion threads, talked to friends who go to tournaments, and I don't see this invisible reason or whatever that apparently only experienced people have and know what MK can do in person.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Jbandrew made a point? (Turns a few pages)
MarkO, you're right, I think all the ******** stages should've legal for a bit so we could test it out. Character development is much different that realizing what stages are ******** from which ones aren't
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our game.
Five score years ago, a great Smasher, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the SBR Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Anti-ban players who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Anti-ban still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Anti-ban is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Anti-ban lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Anti-ban is still languished in the corners of Smasher society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our game's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every Smasher was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, Anti-ban men as well as pro-ban men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that Smash has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, Smash has given the Anti-ban smashers a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this game. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind Smash of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of tier justice. Now is the time to lift our game from the quicksands of tier injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of Sakurai's children.
It would be fatal for the game to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Anti-ban's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Anti-ban needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the game returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in Smash until the Anti-ban is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our game until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my smashers, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.
The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Anti-ban community must not lead us to a distrust of all pro-ban smashers, for many of our pro-ban brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Anti-ban is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Anti-ban's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: "For Pro-bans Only." We cannot be satisfied as long as a Anti-ban in Mississippi cannot vote and a Anti-ban in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends. And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the Smasher dream.
I have a dream that one day this game will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former players and the sons of former player owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a game where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little Anti-ban boys and Anti-ban girls will be able to join hands with little pro-ban boys and pro-ban girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our game into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of Sakurai's children will be able to sing with new meaning:
My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!
And if Smash is to be a great game, this must become true.
And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.
Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of Sakurai's children, Anti-ban men and pro-ban men, Tournament Directors and SBR members, Brawlers and Melee players, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Anti-ban spiritual:
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank Sakurai Almighty, we are free at last!
Five score years ago, a great Smasher, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the SBR Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Anti-ban players who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Anti-ban still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Anti-ban is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Anti-ban lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Anti-ban is still languished in the corners of Smasher society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our game's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every Smasher was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, Anti-ban men as well as pro-ban men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that Smash has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, Smash has given the Anti-ban smashers a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this game. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind Smash of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of tier justice. Now is the time to lift our game from the quicksands of tier injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of Sakurai's children.
It would be fatal for the game to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Anti-ban's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Anti-ban needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the game returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in Smash until the Anti-ban is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our game until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my smashers, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.
The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Anti-ban community must not lead us to a distrust of all pro-ban smashers, for many of our pro-ban brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Anti-ban is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Anti-ban's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: "For Pro-bans Only." We cannot be satisfied as long as a Anti-ban in Mississippi cannot vote and a Anti-ban in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends. And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the Smasher dream.
I have a dream that one day this game will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former players and the sons of former player owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a game where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little Anti-ban boys and Anti-ban girls will be able to join hands with little pro-ban boys and pro-ban girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our game into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of Sakurai's children will be able to sing with new meaning:
My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!
And if Smash is to be a great game, this must become true.
And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.
Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of Sakurai's children, Anti-ban men and pro-ban men, Tournament Directors and SBR members, Brawlers and Melee players, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Anti-ban spiritual:
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank Sakurai Almighty, we are free at last!
Moral: Try to get along guys
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Dude, obviously the only way we could tell if 75m should be legal is if we have extensive research and stage experience.
Also, I'm reporting Vyse for spam of the epic variety.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Melo, 75m isn't legal?
SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
so basically hes saying hes just another noob which means all his intelligent posts from before were fake and anti ban has no more proof and mk can get banned cuz he doesn't kno better
Palpi
Smash Hero
Lol what? I just thought your example was funny.
Zolios
Smash Apprentice
Wait wait wait, if this was solely meant to decide if Metaknight was going to be allowed in tournaments, why didn't SBR disable replies? They would've gotten a more constructive result, because apparently they aren't changing their arguments for either side.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
i'm pretty sure if you lock a topic, you also lock the ability to vote. so they couldnt do that.
The crowd should be allowed to express its concerns and debate within itself whether MK should be banned or not. The opinion of the crowd is very important, otherwise all you have is the SBR's opinion.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I don't think it is. I was researching on it for months, and I know I came to the conclusion that it should be banned.
The ladders ruin its competitive viability.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
To state this, its not happening before it is a problem, its happening while it is a problem. Some people might say that if he isn't banned by now, he never will be and doesn't meet the criteria to be. Because of this, he does not meet the requirements to meet a ban. But the same thing can be said in vise-versa. If he doesn't meet the criteria and requirements to be banned, why do these threads keep coming up to have the discussion on if he should be banned. Aside from all the noobs posting on both sides who are just wasting text space, he does meet a few standards on why he should be banned. My main reason for banning him has been this for a while. I will just Quote myself to save time:
That was a response to Melo's talk about C/Ping. This game is based off of C/Ping, while people neglect the fact to accept that or not. It is one thing to go a straight character and win because you feel that you are in a comfort zone with that character, but if the option should arise, you have the privilege of C/Ping you opponent. IN MK it is not in that case, like I said above.
About your question about what if it is not ban worthy, and was deemed banned:
It will be obvious that another discussion would occur about his reappearance to the game. I am a personal believer in trying not to theory anything and try to just give out pure facts, and I am also big on testing what ever needs to be tested to obtain those facts. having him in a temp-ban would actually benefit the community, because it will simply knock out any theory of "What might happen if so and so was legal or not"
Of course it is not the case in this situation, and we are most likely talking about a Perm-ban. Even then, it is not like he is going to be deleted from the game, and could make is entrance back into the game if people switch their minds about him.
Did iI somewhat answer your question?
It would be far too easy to circle camp on 75m for it to be legal to begin with.
Electroplankton would be legal for singles before 75m
Electroplankton would be legal for singles before 75m
FB Dj_Iskascribble
Frostbitten
best smash boards post ever period
Palpi
Smash Hero
Melo, That is only stage I practice my Lucas on though. How will my online tourney placing against 3 year olds exist now!?
Vyse. We're joking
SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
I'm holding a event. The first person to register 1000 fake accounts and change the percent to 66% percents gets a secret mystery gift
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
LOLMelo, That is only stage I practice my Lucas on though. How will my online tourney placing against 3 year olds exist now!?
Vyse. We're joking
I got trolled hard.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
While I agree that this is a legitimate argument (...I guess), it still has it's flaws. He does not "break" the counterpicking system. He hurts it bad, and even so, that doesn't warrant a ban. He still has a few even match ups, some that are arguably slightly at his disadvantage. The main point is that he has enough match ups that are close enough to be decided on player skill. He has plenty of 60:40s, which is not a hard counter. A 60:40 match up can go either way, and if the MK is a genuinely worse/less experienced player than his opponent, he will more than likely lose. Yes, the match up numbers are squishy at this point, but they can sway either way for the most part.
So no, he can't be "counter-picked." But it's not broken.
He doesn't "break" the counterpicking system any more than Sheik or Fox did in Melee.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I don't mean to Vyse
socandrewcer
Smash Lord
i vote no
Atlus8
Smash Master
I summon cactuar and mango!
Palpi
Smash Hero
Deserving of the GOLDEN GOBLET OF WIN!!
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
If anyone's interested enough to look, I compiled a list of the SBR-B members that voted in this public poll as of about 20 minutes ago. It doesn't really mean anything. I was just bored...
Keep in mind that not all of them are voting in the poll in the backroom.
Pro-Ban: (21)
Bardull, ChiboSempai, chillindude829, CO18, Cyphus, Dastrn, EdreesesPieces, everlastingyayuhzz, Gaki, HolyNightmare, HugS, Lee Martin, MookieRah, NinjaLink, Omegablackmage, Overswarm, Praxis, ssbbFICTION, TheReflexWonder, Xyro77, TheBuzzSaw
Anti-Ban: (23)
Afro_Thundah, Atomsk_92, Dazwa, Dojo, Hylian, HyugaRicdeau, InfernoOmni, I_Am_Infinity, Ignatius, Kel, Lightxdream, Marc, Mew2King, MHoltz, Sky’, SpadeFox, the calm tyrant..., Sadharu Inui, Samurai Panda, SCOTU, Vyse, Youko, Kishprime
I haven't ever heard of a few of these guys. >_>
edit:
I wonder how many of these guys name search, lol.
Keep in mind that not all of them are voting in the poll in the backroom.
Pro-Ban: (21)
Bardull, ChiboSempai, chillindude829, CO18, Cyphus, Dastrn, EdreesesPieces, everlastingyayuhzz, Gaki, HolyNightmare, HugS, Lee Martin, MookieRah, NinjaLink, Omegablackmage, Overswarm, Praxis, ssbbFICTION, TheReflexWonder, Xyro77, TheBuzzSaw
Anti-Ban: (23)
Afro_Thundah, Atomsk_92, Dazwa, Dojo, Hylian, HyugaRicdeau, InfernoOmni, I_Am_Infinity, Ignatius, Kel, Lightxdream, Marc, Mew2King, MHoltz, Sky’, SpadeFox, the calm tyrant..., Sadharu Inui, Samurai Panda, SCOTU, Vyse, Youko, Kishprime
I haven't ever heard of a few of these guys. >_>
edit:
I wonder how many of these guys name search, lol.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
they let people in the backroom for being inui's friend, didn't you hear?
'V'
Smash Lord
Don't forget Marth, who also had a dominate era in Melee like Meta Knight has now.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
And? As already discussed, nothing absolutely catastrophic would happen if Metaknight was banned. Maybe a few players would quit and that's basically it. Really, the domino effect arguement is garbage and, truth be told, the game can't really get any worse than it already is. All in all, I don't think anyone aside from mostly Metaknight, Jigglypuff, and Yoshi players would largely regret him not being here. Trust me, "dear God, what have we done" would probably be the last thing anyone would say on the matter a year from now if it were passed.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I actually don't know why I didn't say Marth, haha. I always think Sheik and Fox first, for whatever reason.
Whatever, point is that there are characters in Melee that have match ups just as good, or better, than MKs.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Omg you sigged emblem lord... didn't realize....
'V'
Smash Lord
Agreed. Some people could even argue that Fox was way more dangerous in than Meta Knight could ever be.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I agree, but then again, recent tournament results have been... weird
n00b post....
Would the mid tiers (low tiers are out of the question anyway) benefit that much if MK was banned, or would the other high tiers still be too much for them? If not, a ban would only benefit other high tiers, who already can do alright (that is to say, they aren't doomed) against Meta Knight. But if the mid tiers would benefit alot, then we could be playing a game with more diversity.
Would the mid tiers (low tiers are out of the question anyway) benefit that much if MK was banned, or would the other high tiers still be too much for them? If not, a ban would only benefit other high tiers, who already can do alright (that is to say, they aren't doomed) against Meta Knight. But if the mid tiers would benefit alot, then we could be playing a game with more diversity.
Atlus8
Smash Master
Someone please lock this thread already! There have been THREE previous threads with polls that have all been in favor of banning MK! Please lock thread!
Palpi
Smash Hero
Selfish votes are selfish.
- Status