Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[lordvaati]

Maybe but MK is easily beatable, an even match up, woo hoo, he's not even the worst match up for most top tiers.

exactly. a skilled player using Pika from Smash 64 is more broken then MK. Pika had no bad or even matchups. at least MK has even.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm surprised you guys are still here since the outcome was already said. I'd like to ask if there has been any new developments but this is basically a rehash of the three previous polls as it is. Maybe I'll debate just for a laugh or two, who knows.

 

[lordvaati]

I'm surprised you guys are still here since the outcome was already said. I'd like to ask if there has been any new developments but this is basically a rehash of the three previous polls as it is. Maybe I'll debate just for a laugh or two, who knows.

yep. they said it needs 57% to be accepted, yet it's been the same score all week. I was just saying my two cents.

 

[Overclassed]

I'm surprised you guys are still here since the outcome was already said. I'd like to ask if there has been any new developments but this is basically a rehash of the three previous polls as it is. Maybe I'll debate just for a laugh or two, who knows.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, Inui revealed how the SBR felt about the matter but, truth be told, Hylian actually revealed it earlier than that but it didn't really settle in under after what Inui said.

 

[Tianxiazhai]

Hylian told the results? I really dont feel like combing 50+ pages, so can somebody quote or link?

 

[Red Arremer]

Hylian told the results? I really dont feel like combing 50+ pages, so can somebody quote or link?

No he didn't.

 

[swordgard]

Im pretty sure the SBR isnt 1 sided but anti ban is leading.

 

[Xyro77]

Just to let you guys know, i held a meta banned event this past saturday(hobo 17) and it brought in a world record 100 people. For a metabanned event, this is historic. So a few days ago when i said my attendance improved due to meta being banned, i was right.

So far, HOBO 12,16,17 have been growing each time.


swordguard, the sbr is one sided on the metaban thing. its rigged to be in the anti-ban favor(in my opinion)

 

[swordgard]

Just to let you guys know, i held a meta banned event this past saturday(hobo 17) and it brought in a world record 100 people. For a metabanned event, this is historic. So a few days ago when i said my attendance improved due to meta being banned, i was right.

So far, HOBO 12,16,17 have been growing each time.


swordguard, the sbr is one sided on the metaban thing. its rigged to be in the anti-ban favor(in my opinion)

And remember those hobo 17 results? Alots of diddys. Ban diddy?

 

[4nace]

Let's just ban the whole game and replace it with job fairs. Instead of going out to play a videogame with a bunch of friends, we'll all meet up at venues and talk about career options!

 

[Xyro77]

And remember those hobo 17 results? Alots of diddys. Ban diddy?

Do any of you actually read what the pro-ban side says?

we want meta gone because he cant be CPed. DIDDY CAN!!!!!!!! So there is no need to ban him.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Just to let you guys know, i held a meta banned event this past saturday(hobo 17) and it brought in a world record 100 people. For a metabanned event, this is historic. So a few days ago when i said my attendance improved due to meta being banned, i was right.

So far, HOBO 12,16,17 have been growing each time.


swordguard, the sbr is one sided on the metaban thing. its rigged to be in the anti-ban favor(in my opinion)

Honestly, I sort of explained what's gotta be done in my blog, but nobody's really touching on it.

Honestly, it's not even just pro-ban's obligation, because we as a community, should know if MK is banworthy and there's a lot of other important data to just have, but now that anti-ban will probably claim victory here, pro-ban is probably gonna need to step up, and get the data to rub in their faces if it's warranted.

Granted the specific numbers are debatable, and that's something we as a community wanna debate BEFORE we get the numbers themselves.

But dealing with it using just arguments isn't the answer. We need complete data.

 

[swordgard]

Do any of you actually read what the pro-ban side says?

we want meta gone because he cant be CPed. DIDDY CAN!!!!!!!! So there is no need to ban him.

Are you saying you need the advantage to win? You can still go even with MK lol.

 

[Red Arremer]

Let's just ban the whole game and replace it with job fairs. Instead of going out to play a videogame with a bunch of friends, we'll all meet up at venues and talk about career options!

That sounds very useful. I support this idea.

 

[Xyro77]

Are you saying you need the advantage to win? You can still go even with MK lol.

you are right, now you are even on a STAGE and character.

But do you have a 2 frame u-air that can combo into nado/UP+B and kill you off the top?

Can you gimp with UP+B off the stage at 35%?

Can tornado and eat through 90% of the characters attacks?

Is your d-smash, d-tilt, f-tilt, faster than his?

Can you combo better than he can?

Do you have 4 B moves that can get you back to the stage?




this goes on and on and on. He is flat out better than the rest by a margin so large its just flat out unfair.

 

[adumbrodeus]

this goes on an on and on. He is flat out better than the rest by a margin so large its just flat out unfair.

Then let's prove it where it matters... match-ups.

 

[Brinzy]

But do you have a 2 frame u-air that can combo into nado/UP+B and kill you off the top?

Can you gimp with UP+B off the stage at 35%?

Can tornado and eat through 90% of the characters attacks?

Is your d-smash, d-tilt, f-tilt, faster than his?

Can you combo better than he can?

Do you have 4 B moves that can get you back to the stage?




this goes on and on and on. He is flat out better than the rest by a margin so large its just flat out unfair.

I can uair you for a death well below 100%.

I can kill you with Up B on the Smashville platform at 35%.

I can Nayru's through 90% of the characters' attacks.

My Dsmash is faster than his. My dtilt stays out longer than his. My ftilt is longer.

Who needs combos when I can kill you in five hits?

All of my B moves can get me back to the stage with proper input.



... and Zelda's prettier. :D

 

[.Marik]

Then let's prove it where it matters... match-ups.

Already been proven, plenty of times.

MetaKnight is undeniably better than the rest of Brawl, but I doubt the mainstream Brawl commmunity will take the initiative and ban him in large-scale Tournaments.

With the exception of Hobo, of course. Most TO's just go "lol no johns, lern2matchups" and other weak excuses.

Oh well. I voted yes, but I have no wish to become too involved in this discussion.

 

[swordgard]

you are right, now you are even on a STAGE and character.

But do you have a 2 frame u-air that can combo into nado/UP+B and kill you off the top?

Can you gimp with UP+B off the stage at 35%?

Can tornado and eat through 90% of the characters attacks?

Is your d-smash, d-tilt, f-tilt, faster than his?

Can you combo better than he can?

Do you have 4 B moves that can get you back to the stage?




this goes on and on and on. He is flat out better than the rest by a margin so large its just flat out unfair.

Do you have an infinite chaingrab?

I do

Do you force every other char to camp you out in fear? I do.


Naming properties alone is not a good way say something is OP, only the actual matchups matter and tourney results. Fox was broken in theory in melee, he wasnt in practice. Same for MK, except MK isnt even broken in theory.

 

[Brinzy]

Most TO's just go "lol no johns, lern2matchups" and other weak excuses.

lol, nothing good can come from this.

 

[swordgard]

Already been proven, plenty of times.

MetaKnight is undeniably better than the rest of Brawl

There is always a best char.


Pikachu is undeniably better than everyone else in smash 64. No bad matchups


Ban?

 

[.Marik]

lol, nothing good can come from this.

Let me clarify.

Most=/=all.

Just saying. The evidence is overwhelming, the pro-ban side continually finds new data which suggests MetaKnight is indeed broken in an already over-centralized metagame.

I'm not too concerned about this situation, but I'm not going to blatantly lie and say MetaKnight is fair and even.

I'm not saying MetaKnight can never be beaten, but it's considerably harder to do so.

 

[Sosuke]

I just love it when people compare Brawl to Smash64.

 

[Xyro77]

I can uair you for a death well below 100%.

I can kill you with Up B on the Smashville platform at 35%.

I can Nayru's through 90% of the characters' attacks.

My Dsmash is faster than his. My dtilt stays out longer than his. My ftilt is longer.

Who needs combos when I can kill you in five hits?

All of my B moves can get me back to the stage with proper input.



... and Zelda's prettier. :D

dude, you are zelda.........ROFL. your kind will never be better than meta or go even. lol

Do you have an infinite chaingrab?

I do

Do you force every other char to camp you out in fear? I do.


Naming properties alone is not a good way say something is OP, only the actual matchups matter and tourney results. Fox was broken in theory in melee, he wasnt in practice. Same for MK, except MK isnt even broken in theory.

metas need to dair air camp and tornado to platform. dojo does this all the time.

fox was broken in theory but this game isnt played in theory. hell if played perfect melee marth is the best but it dont mean anything.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

you are right, now you are even on a STAGE and character.

But do you have a 2 frame u-air that can combo into nado/UP+B and kill you off the top?

Can you gimp with UP+B off the stage at 35%?

Can tornado and eat through 90% of the characters attacks?

Is your d-smash, d-tilt, f-tilt, faster than his?

Can you combo better than he can?

Do you have 4 B moves that can get you back to the stage?




this goes on and on and on. He is flat out better than the rest by a margin so large its just flat out unfair.

melee fox shiek marth and falco(prolly peach falcon and jiggs too) were waaaaaay worse than mk in terms of brokeness.

in melee days everyone freaked out(never said the word ban tho) when fox was able to drill shine half the cast, when shiek made 2/3s of the cast unplayable with o to death chain grabs, when marth brought fox down a notch, and now the recent jiggs uprising.

you gotta work around the brokeness you whinny little babies.

also, theres 2 characters in sf4 that cant be couterpicked.

proof:

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

 

[swordgard]

I just love it when people compare Brawl to Smash64.

The theory is the same. Apparently, pro ban makes it so we cant compare brawl to anything. So we cant have a reference point and use their self chosen ban criteria which they

A) either pulled out of nowhere
B) Used inductive logic to find many different criterias that actually fit, chose the one that applies to MK.

 

[Xyro77]

There is always a best char.


Pikachu is undeniably better than everyone else in smash 64. No bad matchups


Ban?

there was no scene for ssb64 so we do not know what would have happened later on in the future(kirby can beat pika btw, lol). again, you anti bans are ********.

 

[BBQTV]

you know when some comes here and says MK is broken someone else will say he's not rinse and repeat thats all thats going on here.

 

[swordgard]

there was no scene for ssb64 so we do not know what would have happened later on in the future(kirby can beat pika btw, lol). again, you anti bans are ********.

There was a scene.


Snake can beat mk.


You and your quick use of insults.

 

[Sosuke]

Smash 64 is a completely broken game where every character has a 0-deaths that aren't really hard to pull off.

Really, don't compare things to that.
Unless, you know, they're like that.
Which Brawl isn't.

 

[momochuu]

Comparing Zelda stuff to MK

No. No. No.

You cannot compare the qualities of Zelda's moves to MK's. Most of the time you won't even hit anyone with Zelda's UpAir and it's definitely not as useful. Kiill people at 35% with Zelda's UpB? You'd have to be retardedly close to the blast line, and most players stay away from that area unless they absolutely have to. There's more wrong things in your post, but I don't feel like pointing them all out. >_>

Hopefully your post was a joke post and I just wasted my time.

 

[swordgard]

Smash 64 is a completely broken game where every character has a 0-deaths that aren't really hard to pull off.

Really, don't compare things to that.
Unless, you know, they're like that.
Which Brawl isn't.

What about SF4?


I mean, the ban criteria is still the same from game to game.

 

[Sosuke]

I don't play that game, so I can't tell you if the comparison is ok. It's probably a much better game to compare to then Smash64 though.

I'm not trying to limit your options for the sake of doing so here. I'm just trying to help you make your points more valid. >_>

 

[Brinzy]

dude, you are zelda.........ROFL. your kind will never be better than meta or go even. lol

I don't need to be informed of this.

Hopefully your post was a joke post and I just wasted my time.

Obviously.


I figured the last bit to my post would be a hint.

 

[momochuu]

Yay for wasted time~!

 

[4nace]

SoR was just poking wholes in Xyro's argument using Zelda.

Pretty much saying that you can't just list off the great abilities that a character has to support that the character is ban worthy. SoR listed off Zelda's qualities while neglecting all her flaws similar to what Xyro did heh.

(So other people don't keep quoting you)

 

[swordgard]

I don't need to be informed of this.



Obviously.


I figured the last bit to my post would be a hint.

And hes samus, his kind will never go even or better than MK. Its D3 that makes her unviable.


I forgot you had a hunch for banning stuff xyro, such as d3s infinite grabs. Whatever helps you is fine uh?

 

[Remzi]

What about SF4?


I mean, the ban criteria is still the same from game to game.

In SFIV, the results generally aren't reflecting those matchups.

Look at HDR, Akuma in that game = MK. Not sheer dominance, but he knocks around the majorit of the cast and doesn't go worse than even. He also has vastly superior tournament rankings compared to the rest of the cast. Sound familiar *cough MK*. He was banned at EVO and is currently being discussed for a perma-ban.

I forgot you had a hunch for banning stuff xyro, such as d3s infinite grabs. Whatever helps you is fine uh?

Tons of TOs ban D3 infinites. And for good reason, people need to take the sticks out of their ***** and ban things that make sense to ban, and not just always do things by the book.

 

[swordgard]

In SFIV, the results generally aren't reflecting those matchups.

Look at HDR, Akuma in that game = MK. Not sheer dominance, but he knocks around the majorit of the cast and doesn't go worse than even. He also has vastly superior tournament rankings compared to the rest of the cast. Sound familiar *cough MK*. He was banned at EVO and is currently being discussed for a perma-ban.

Discussed, isnt perma-ban.


Either way, i noticed hobo has lots of stupid rules, such as banning d3s infinite cg, or banning infinites on temp wall.