For those of you who place emphasis on technique

[Rogue]

Anyone who hasn't at some point felt what I was talking about is lying to themselves.

Anyone who further equates this to giving up is missing the point.

But hey, let's not have an intelligent conversation here. Let's just sigh and insult people.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

but you aren't actually making any points - you were saying "at some point you feel like you cant improve"
and that's about it

 

[choknater]

drephen and HugS seem to show a lot of raw talent in reaction/reflex that transcend other players

mang0 as well

too goodz

 

[LuigiKing]

Here, let me spell it out for you guys, and this is coming from someone who is barely into the tournament scene. If you suck at the game, you cannot/should not learn the advanced techniques, let alone character specific advanced techs. Using ATs just to use them when they are not useful is bad, and using ATs at inopportune moments is bad. You should not be mortar sliding if you don't know how to double jump.

PS... Gimpy, I want to see you play Luigi :D

 

[Squidster]

Ooo wheres the bright line.

Do you spend time learning to short hop if you have trouble with that?!
Do you spend time learning to fast fall areals?
Do you spend time learning to tilt lock?!
Do you spend time learning to shield grab?!
Do you spend time learning DACUS?

Is knowing how to control your character a pre requisite to getting to good? What if an AT helps you control your character. Clearly, it is an unsolvable paradox. You must simultaneously learn to control your character without wasting time learning how to control your character and focusing just on what to do if you could control your character. Only after bending your mind enough to understand this concept can you truly begin to get good

 

[bluewind]

yes! All hope is not lost! I came to the boards so I could learn how to play as sheik again and all I found was a bunch of AT's that I thought I had to learn...they didn't get me anywhere... I acually played some wifi matches and lost all of them because I was so focused on doing AT's.....I guess I just need to focus on spacing instead of all the AT's.

 

[Zankoku]

Hey, hurry up and look up how to beat her while I'm beating her!

 

[Rogue]

but you aren't actually making any points - you were saying "at some point you feel like you cant improve"
and that's about it

That's a point, with elaboration, and it has direct relevance to a thread like this-- things to do to improve your game (and what not to focus on). And, my point-- things that get in the way.

I also made another point-- nobody is disputing your point. Yet you keep saying "you don't understand" while not really understanding. How can you understand a person's game when they give you one line of text?

Finally, a question: Are you looking to improve people's games? Or just gripe at them for being lol johns?

 

[choknater]

Ooo wheres the bright line.

Do you spend time learning to short hop if you have trouble with that?!
Do you spend time learning to fast fall areals?
Do you spend time learning to tilt lock?!
Do you spend time learning to shield grab?!
Do you spend time learning DACUS?

Is knowing how to control your character a pre requisite to getting to good? What if an AT helps you control your character. Clearly, it is an unsolvable paradox. You must simultaneously learn to control your character without wasting time learning how to control your character and focusing just on what to do if you could control your character. Only after bending your mind enough to understand this concept can you truly begin to get good

LMAO squidster what the heck are you talking about

hey guys stop over-complicating it

this thread is saying to play smash by racking up damage and knocking someone off the stage and not getting hit and dying.

not about using a perfect synergy of technical ability and mindgames.

it's about strategy, hitting, not getting hit, thereby owning, ******.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

*Reads Topic*

Seriously, does someone need to summarize what he's saying (again?)? I feel like saying some pretty vulgar things.

Work on the basic mechanics, be smart, space yourself and don't get hit. Work on these aspects before moving on to anything. What's so hard about understanding this?

 

[Natural High]

^^^ Yes, it's actually quite simple.

I think my biggest problem is getting a grasp on spacing. I deal out a lot of attacks and only about 55% of them actually hit. I find this could be a slight problem when the moves start to decay. It's a wonder how I manage to win most of my matches. (Stick 2 basics everyone! They'll save your arse! )

 

[Cobra]

I agree that the basics are the most important part of anyone's game and that the ATs need to come later...but where's the understanding that different people learn things in different ways?

...if someone wants to learn DACUS so they can intelligently put it in their game, even if they can't always short hop their BAirs or their spacing isn't god like. I say let em, and stop telling them that there is only one way to properly learn the character. the basics are important, but some people thrive on their styles NOT being the basic styles, and who knows what those crazy people might find.

(I also want to go on record that I believe that DACUS is actually important to learn, or at least be able to pull off in a clutch. It's situational, and it may be difficult, but it's definitely has it's uses as a surprise attack and has yielded many a kill/wins for me. Not saying that it has to be the first thing learned...just saying that it shouldn't be shrugged off so quickly.)

 

[Gimpyfish62]

hey guys stop over-complicating it

this thread is saying to play smash by racking up damage and knocking someone off the stage and not getting hit and dying.

bingbingbing lolol

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wow Gimpy, I was spying on these forums out of curiosity and I have to say I agree 100%. Mind if I quote you into the Peach forums?

 

[choknater]

chokalait and choknater...
edrees and champ...
edrees and gimpyfish...

peach and sheik truly are sisters with an unbreakable bond!

<3!!!!

 

[Gimpyfish62]

absolutely edreese go for it

 

[Charoo]

chokalait and choknater...
edrees and champ...
edrees and gimpyfish...

peach and sheik truly are sisters with an unbreakable bond!

<3!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCgn6HE-20

even subspace agrees to it haha

 

[ADHD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCgn6HE-20

even subspace agrees to it haha

Champ what is that chick in your sig

 

[Zankoku]

It's a trans-gendered Captain Falcon.

 

[imdavid]

Trans-gendered Falcon... hrm... I think that's a bump up in the hotness scale :]

 

[Charoo]

midnight bliss falcon is too good

 

[choknater]

LMFAO midnight bliss

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Oh-Ah!! Just a little bit! OH-Ah!! Little bit more!!!

 

[S.B.Soldier]

yeah exactly, start basic and work your way up.

 

[Dreadz18x]

stop it.

This is perhaps a bit overdue and isn't specifically directed to the sheik boards but people writing about the DACUS and the chain jacket should have better things to focus on. DACUS should hardly be one of the first things learned by a sheik - anyone who isn't sure if these things are worth learning needs to step back and take a look at what is important anyways.

The BASIC gameplay is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than any technique that i or any other player can come up with - with a base knowledge of your own character and an emphasis on spacing anyone can become a good player. As the base of your gameplay improves (things like spacing and general unpredictability) the opportunities for those extra techniques will become more apparent. If you don't have a good base layer of sheik it's going to be near impossible to land a boost up smash unless its done randomly and hits almost by accident. "techniques" in general are not things to simply be thrown around at random anyways - please change your focus to the basics then worry about added flair or efficiency. The more your knowledge of the basic gameplay grows the more uses you'll find for all of these things...


bleh i'm tired and am being repetitive - just make sure you guys don't forget the basics - it's the most important thing.

i agree. i see alotta ppl on and offline jus worrying about ******* AT's dat dnt really benifit them in winning a match then actually learning match-ups..getting better at spacing..and their character's kill moves..

 

[S.B.Soldier]

yeah. spacing and killers are key... unfortunately im unsure just how deep you can get into this game... how far can i go with training with lvl 3's or even humans.... how much more can me/we possibly improve... wavedashing was huge... but idk i get frusterated with brawl sometimes. i could be better than i am...

 

[Blistering Speed]

WHY do people feel either the need to agree with Gimpyfish and restate exactly what he says in this topic or completely misjudge the meaning and turn it into an AT discussion.

LEARNING IS FUN

 

[S.B.Soldier]

at's can help... its notlike they dont matter. learn for yourselves... i only use these forums as guidance for improvement on my own style

 

[ReoZeo]

haha I actually tried the chain jacket because I saw a video on it, I couldn't do it -_- So I just forgot about it anyway

 

[D1RE]

I learned an AT, the ftiltlock. Apart from that my focus is on not getting hit, hitting and killing (which is done mostly through edgeguarding/Zelda). I'd say mastering Zelda is better than spending your time learning AT's. I mean, DACUS gives you one new move, Zelda gives you 14(?). Come on, Zelda is a stronger killer than the usmash (apart from tipper) and pulling her out around 80-100% will give you a completely undecayed moveset made for killing. So tell me again, how can DACUS be better than learning Zelda? I'd say Zelda is a better AT than DACUS if you're a supposed to be a Sheik player (like me, I hate Zelda, yet I use her).

Summary: When you've mastered the basics of both Sheik and Zelda, I'd say it's time to start learning AT's. But mastering both of them is going to take an unrealistic amount of time so you'd have to wait a year or so...

 

[xDD-Master]

[Mindgame >] Skill > ATs > Glitches (<- Often called "ATs" i mean things like Chain Jacket or DAC. People dont know that throwing an up-b randomly to kill an oppenent is an AT too, noobs never would use it)

Now i play the most times with simply Fair to Fast Fall for example then do a normal c-down or something.

Or running into an oppenent (Who thinks i will DAC or something) then do shield (Less lag), end the shield and do the A Combo xD

Works the most time and is very easy and can be done with any character. I COULD do DAC (or CJ) but for me a normal Dash to UpSmash is enough ^^ (Btw DAC with Shiek isnt that easy... <_>)

I agree totaly playing normal and learning your Characters gived moves is more important. THEN for example when you learn how to fight you will know how your oppenent will fall and else and THEN if you realize and know how an oppenent will fall after your moves and they fall way to away from you, you COULD try a DAC. (But also you know to do something else instead)

The only comprehensive AT I do very often is Needle Cancel. But this is just confusing my oppenent and be all the time free in the air to face my oppenent AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS that my oppenent doesnt know when I DO CHARGING my needles ^^

I think you can agree with me Gimpy and know what I mean ^^ (Because I know what you mean xD And I think the same, but maybe I didnt write it like that xP)

MFG xDD

 

[Zankoku]

LOL at classifying basics as ATs.

Pressing R when charging needles is an AT!
Hitting Up+B randomly is an AT!
Hitting up on the C-Stick is an AT! (I'm going to murder anyone who seriously uses the term "hyphen smash")

 

[choknater]

AT means assist trophy. When will you idiots get it through your thick heads?

 

[D1RE]

LOL at classifying basics as ATs.

Pressing R when charging needles is an AT!
Hitting Up+B randomly is an AT!
Hitting up on the C-Stick is an AT! (I'm going to murder anyone who seriously uses the term "hyphen smash")

I love Hyphen smashing my friend.

 

[choknater]

are u asking for death

he has the death note

 

[Tristan_win]

B-but I like placing emphasis on technique it makes Sheik look broken.

 

[D1RE]

are u asking for death

he has the death note

But I'm a death god.

 

[xDD-Master]

LOL at classifying basics as ATs.

Pressing R when charging needles is an AT!
Hitting Up+B randomly is an AT!
Hitting up on the C-Stick is an AT! (I'm going to murder anyone who seriously uses the term "hyphen smash")

Somehow you're right xD

Winning against MK is THE AT !!! (Well i hate MK for maybe beeing my best character (Or one of my bests)... without playing him that much lol)