Footstools and why you should be using them

[0RLY]

I need more buttons on the right side of my controller. Being unable to drift into footstool position from letting go of the stick is unacceptable. I already use every button for a specific purpose...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Guess you're just gonna have to prioritize. :x

 

[trash?]

Someone should just attach a classic controller to USB. I know it can work, seeing that I've seen arcade sticks that just act like them. Granted, I could just learn to use R, but it feels weird to use a pressure-sensitive button to do an action that doesn't really need it.

 

[Jolteon]

Great post, Reflex! I will experiment with footstooling.

 

[Juushichi]

Someone should just attach a classic controller to USB. I know it can work, seeing that I've seen arcade sticks that just act like them. Granted, I could just learn to use R, but it feels weird to use a pressure-sensitive button to do an action that doesn't really need it.

I've been looking into this with someone who I know can mod, I just really haven't had the resources for it yet to bother him about it. Initially, it was just for CCP > GC, but since I have a few spares and the CCP is pretty cheap ($20), I'll just buy another one to mod to USB as well.

 

[TheKittyloaf]

Honestly going to be trying to put this wonderful game mechanic into use. Managed to get a kill or two with it in friendlies the other day, and it has little to no downside if you're not 100% basing your followup options on the successfulness of the taunt. When someone is at a low percentage, playing with donkey kong's throw combos is rather entertaining with this unconventional combo choice.

 

[BryE]

Been messing around with footstooling as Snake/Link. Here's some stuff that I made up on a whim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zgVUEillUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Tes85uE94

Not really practical, some stuff are just reaching for straws and some stuff could possibly work when your opponent fails a tech.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Great post Reflex, but I have still a few questions about footstooling (Time to revive this thread, hehe!)
Does anyone know how long the footstool animation takes?
And are there differences between footstooling grounded or aerial opponents?
I read Jigglypuffs footstool->rest works on Wario and Sonic (facing either direction), as well as Luigi, Toon Link, Marth, and Mr. Game and Watch (only if they are facing the same direction as you). (source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHgbs7mKDE) This refers to grounded opponents does anyone know about aerial ones?
But in Brawl it works on ICs too, maybe also in PM... (Video is from 2.5) Would be nice if someone has information referring to the new chars (could imagine it works on Samus too because of the floatiness)
Maybe also the new characters can use footstooling with success, for example a IC chaingrab involving footstool -> Nana regrab or sth...
Enough for now,
Chesstiger2612

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Edit: Footstooling is an impressive partner save in Doubles btw

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Great post Reflex, but I have still a few questions about footstooling (Time to revive this thread, hehe!)
Does anyone know how long the footstool animation takes?
And are there differences between footstooling grounded or aerial opponents?
I read Jigglypuffs footstool->rest works on Wario and Sonic (facing either direction), as well as Luigi, Toon Link, Marth, and Mr. Game and Watch (only if they are facing the same direction as you). (source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHgbs7mKDE) This refers to grounded opponents does anyone know about aerial ones?
But in Brawl it works on ICs too, maybe also in PM... (Video is from 2.5) Would be nice if someone has information referring to the new chars (could imagine it works on Samus too because of the floatiness)
Maybe also the new characters can use footstooling with success, for example a IC chaingrab involving footstool -> Nana regrab or sth...
Enough for now,
Chesstiger2612

The footstooler can begin to move/jump/attack/airdodge on Frame 9, and the grounded "I've been footstooled" animation lasts for 28 frames, giving each character 19 frames to work with. Not sure how long the "I've been footstooled" animation lasts on a victim who is in the air.

When you're footstooling a grounded opponent, they aren't able to drift left/right during the "I've been footstooled" animation (which would be walking on the ground, heh). Also, they don't have to potentially tech when they hit the ground (because they aren't falling to the ground). Otherwise, they act largely the same.

Not sure, but I'm pretty positive that aerial footstools all put you too high for Rest to overlap the opponent. The only things that do work in such a situation are momentum shifting options (like aerial glide toss) and very specific low/ranged options (Marth D-Air comes to mind on slower fallers, but I'd have to test it again).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can footstool -> Rest Ice Climbers, but I think you might only hit the Climber that isn't being footstooled (as the one being footstooled has his/her head down). I'll probably make a new video soon, given the sudden interest.

I actually tested footstool stuff with Ice Climbers extensively pre-3.0 release. It is -theoretically- possible to do throw -> footstool -> regrab shenanigans, but because Nana's "leash" is way shorter than it was in Brawl, the spacing and timing has to be absolutely perfect to the point where it is, for all practical purposes, impossible (like, I had a lot of trouble doing it one frame at a time in Frame Advance), which made me very sad.

 

[MonkUnit]

Foostool D-Air with Marth on Falcon doesn't work even if frame perfect because Falcon dips down too much into the Z axis and avoids the sword =(

 

[Kink-Link5]

Z-axis is the bane of Smash.

Charizard's d-tilt is like two or three frames slower than its hitboxes because that damn tail doesn't move into the action plane until later in the animation. And of course the multiple pummel glitches that have existed in the series.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Thank you very much for answering my questions, Relfex. :D

 

[Daftatt]

Wow, I wonder if ZSS D-smashes a character off ledge will I be able to footstool them? That would be filthy, will try.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

If it doesn't work, you can try to time it exactly when the opponent is released from the stun. You probably need frame data + practice for that, but if it doesn't work the other way...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can mash out of stun, though, so you'd never know for sure.

 

[SixSaw]

Wow, I wonder if ZSS D-smashes a character off ledge will I be able to footstool them? That would be filthy, will try.

I'm pretty sure that worked in Brawl.

 

[Daftatt]

I'm pretty sure that worked in Brawl.

oh god that's f*cking delicious.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Characters with big hitboxes on the footstool also might escape upward combos if they have no hitlag anymore but they have no other option which is as fast as the footstool. It only works against combos with little hitboxes because otherwise the footstooler gets simply outspaced.
I thought of stopping some knees or upthrow-rest or some chaingrabs (not sure if it actually works)
Either way, there is actually great potential in this underused mechanic.

PS:

oh god that's f*cking delicious.

Does that mean it works in PM too? :D

 

[Daftatt]

Characters with big hitboxes on the footstool also might escape upward combos if they have no hitlag anymore but they have no other option which is as fast as the footstool. It only works against combos with little hitboxes because otherwise the footstooler gets simply outspaced.
I thought of stopping some knees or upthrow-rest or some chaingrabs (not sure if it actually works)
Either way, there is actually great potential in this underused mechanic.

PS:

Does that mean it works in PM too? :D

lol, no idea haven't tried it yet, I'm just excited to find something new in ZSS

 

[Strong Badam]

You can't footstool a stunned opponent in Project M.

 

[SixSaw]

Could you in brawl or am I just wrong?

 

[Strong Badam]

You could in Brawl, you can't in PM.

 

[Daftatt]

You could in Brawl, you can't in PM.

yeah I just tried, you can footstool them, but they will stay stunned in place, you will just jump off. However I can time it to footstool them as they pop out of stun, I can actually gimp the spacies with it (sometimes), more on that to come. It's now obvious why ZSS's spike was taken away in PM (she used to be able to spike off her flipjump kick in brawl), it's f*cking cheap, this is infinitely harder and it still feels kind of cheap for characters like yoshi.

EDIT: findings inconclusive

EDIT: did a second test, if you can effectively stunstool (that's what I now call it) DK at or below the ledge he is gimped, same with yoshi. Toon link could probably glide-tether.

 

[B.W.]

So like. What's the timing for this? I find it difficult to follow up with anything after I footstool someone.

 

[SpiderMad]

At and -slightly- below characters' feet, from what I can tell. When slowed down, there is a very slight "magnet" effect where they suddenly teleport to their head.

With footstooling, there's a lot to consider with that. Some characters find it more difficult than others to follow up at certain heights. Footstools are also techable in PM, so once opponents get used to it, it'll only set up a tech-chase position on-stage, so that might not be worth as much as a clean hit at times.

Much like airdodges, you cannot footstool while in tumble animation, so if a string of moves puts you in tumble, you're usually better off trying to stick out a hitbox.

Can anyone grab a gif of the area/hitbox?

You can footstool someone that's in the the hitstun or tumble animation though right? Just read SB's post saying you can't do it to someone in hitstun, so I'm guessing you can't do it to someone in tumble as well?

Z-axis is the bane of Smash.

Charizard's d-tilt is like two or three frames slower than its hitboxes because that damn tail doesn't move into the action plane until later in the animation. And of course the multiple pummel glitches that have existed in the series.

pummel glitches?

 

[Bryonato]

yes that is correct

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can footstool someone that's in the the hitstun or tumble animation though right? Just read SB's post saying you can't do it to someone in hitstun, so I'm guessing you can't do it to someone in tumble as well?

You can do it to someone in tumble, and you can do it to someone suffering knockback. It is (technically) a way to safely save a Doubles partner who was just sent your way toward his death.

 

[jtm94]

The funniest thing ever with any character is downthrow into footstool into another tech chased grab and repeat. I don't know why it's so funny. It's like bad pillaring stuff that any character can potentially do.

 

[Run DMX]

Welp. I have awakened to the usefulness of footstool jumping. Time to practice it up.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I once footstooled my partner in doubles to fair a recovering Ganon on his last stock.

Completely unnecessary but I got 8 kills that round by stealing the edgeguard.

 

[SpiderMad]

You can do it to someone in tumble, and you can do it to someone suffering knockback. It is (technically) a way to safely save a Doubles partner who was just sent your way toward his death.

What was SB referring to when he said you could in Brawl but can't in PM?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Footstooling a stunned opponent. He was referring to moves like ZSS down smash.
You can also footstool some moves which give you just an extra jump and don't affect the footstooled, I tested with DK's up-b. Potentially useful in doubles.
EDIT: More testing on that strange case: You can footstool tetherers when they are tethering, you basically get an extra jump without the tetherer changing state... (again great for doubles, especially Ivy since Ivy players in doubles like to be at the edge and can help their partner recovering with that) I suspect it works on more up-Bs but its hard to footstool because you get hit.

 

[CyberMario]

Here's a quick primer on footstooling, a game mechanic I've seen other people use approximately zero times.

For those of you who aren't aware, footstool jumping is one of the Brawl options that made it to the current demo of Project M (that's 2.5).

The input is an Up-Taunt command.

Please make the correction that it's actually any taunt input as of 3.0

I say this because as a Samus main, I use side taunt to change beams. The side taunt can also footstool. So now this button as two uses for me.

I assume that taunts from other characters have uses as well, (For example: Bowser's Side Taunt, Diddy's Shades). It'll be best to say to them that the button that use for that particular useful taunts doubles as a footstool option.

 

[Daftatt]

been working on my stunstooling technique got this incredibly sexy stunstool against Shadic at the weekly.

 

[SpiderMad]

That music is horrendous

 

[Daftatt]

That music is horrendous

lol, agreed. I need to change it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Please make the correction that it's actually any taunt input as of 3.0

I say this because as a Samus main, I use side taunt to change beams. The side taunt can also footstool. So now this button as two uses for me.

I assume that taunts from other characters have uses as well, (For example: Bowser's Side Taunt, Diddy's Shades). It'll be best to say to them that the button that use for that particular useful taunts doubles as a footstool option.

I changed it. There you go.

 

[SpiderMad]

I assume that taunts from other characters have uses as well, (For example: Bowser's Side Taunt, Diddy's Shades). It'll be best to say to them that the button that use for that particular useful taunts doubles as a footstool option.

Reading your wording at first I was hoping Diddy's shade taunt had some beneficial effect lol

 

[CyberMario]

Reading your wording at first I was hoping Diddy's shade taunt had some beneficial effect lol

I heard it actually makes pure salt if used correctly. Like, 99.9% pure sodium.