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Footstools and why you should be using them

TheReflexWonder

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Here's a quick primer on footstooling, a game mechanic I've seen other people use approximately zero times.

For those of you who aren't aware, footstool jumping is one of the Brawl options that made it to the current demo of Project M (that's 2.5). Doing it next to an opponent makes you jump off of their head. If the opponent is not doing a move at the time (using an aerial, shielding, etc.) they are rendered helpless for a set amount of time.

It differs from its Brawl incarnation in a few ways. The input is a(ny) Taunt command, rather than a Jump command. This means that you can no longer "accidentally" footstool someone, keeping their existence to intentional use. That said, the D-Pad isn't the best way to do this, especially since it's the face button closest to the Analog Stick, so it is highly recommended that you change an unused button to a Taunt in order to make the most of it. I personally use X (my unused Jump button), but perhaps you have something else that would work well, too. Also, opponents who are footstooled can tech the ground upon landing, giving them a way to defend themselves on-stage. Also-also, while it's not a change in the mechanic, the average normal fall speed of characters is significantly higher, so offstage footstools now put opponents at a significantly lower position than they did in Brawl.

Because of the extremely short range and the fact that the opponent cannot be doing any other move at the time, it is pretty situational in the neutral position, but that's not the only time it can be used, and I'll explain why. I actually use it a fair amount, as Wario probably benefits the most from it in its current state (though I'd love for that statement to be proven wrong!), but there are universal options and benefits.

It gives every character the equivalent of a rather powerful Frame 1 spike (as in, it can't be Meteor Canceled) when it works. It also has the added benefit of not being affected by damage or (S)DI, and it cannot be wallteched. Most characters don't normally have that luxury, so it's good to have in your back pocket for a particularly nasty gimp.

It is also pretty easy to use out of low-damage strings, so it can net you a reasonable tech-chase opportunity or the equivalent of a Ken Combo with some characters.

Now, if you don't want to read all of this, I would recommend at least reading the next couple of paragraphs for a simple and effective use of footstooling. Unlike in Brawl, where missing a footstool command makes you use your mid-air jump, there's literally no reason not to attempt a footstool in PM. If you're in a potential edgeguarding situation and you're not sure you'll be in range, but you want a contingency plan for if that doesn't work, you can input a footstool command immediately before a regular jump and/or aerial as an option select.

If you're not within range, you'll do your aerial/jump like normal and edgeguard them as if you weren't ever using the footstool in the first place. If you're within range, you'll footstool them, and since most characters fall much faster than they do in Brawl, an offstage footstool is often tantamount to a pretty strong spike. Also, the worst-case scenario would be that they're already doing an animation, so you safely recover and don't get hit by their Up-B/rising aerial/whatever, so you don't really lose much (and it might save you from a situation where you'd get hit and die as a result). If used early, it can catch people trying to jump through/around you, so this preemptive footstool is very valuable as an option select. You can actually spam the button and see results a fair amount of the time, but, as with most useful tools, precision is best.

People also tend to think that on-stage footstool combos are limited to characters with unique momentum-changing options, like Peach's float or Wario's D-Air. While those tools are very useful and helpful for more varied options, remember that you retain complete air control when footstooling, so if you have a nearby platform, you can waveland to cancel the upward momentum and proceed to go in. Since this option is almost instantaneous, and most people are worried about other moves, it's easy to catch someone off-guard and get them to miss their tech, which would give your ground combos some flash and allow you to reset the opponent.

...That's about all I've got as far as general usefulness, though. I'd recommend experimenting with it and seeing what kind of mileage you can get from it. It's far from useless and has turned the tide on some of my matches many a time. I hope it can do the same for you.
 
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Kink-Link5

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If footstools become active on frame 1 then it makes Peach's nair "hit" or, be able to hit, 2 frames faster on success since she can Footstool, float, then FC nair with frame advantage.

Jigglypuff gets similar advantages to Wario with a lesser ability to change her position vertically in the air (But with a potentially bigger on stage threat with what is effectively 3 or so extra jumps)

I'll be doing lab work with Ness since PSI Mag and DJC and ****, though dair might just be the better option anyway.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I believe footstooling characters incurs a (very) short animation before you can do attacks, but this might only be applied to a footstool that makes the opponent react. You can only footstool opponents when you're already in the air, and regular mid-air jumps are also Frame 1, so I don't see how footstooling would give Peach a faster N-Air than normal.

Wario's aerials are shorter in duration than Jigglypuff and tend to keep the opponent closer, because Wario's F-Air/N-Air are weaker in power, and Wario has a momentum-change aerial as well as a higher fastfall speed. That said, the fact that Jigglypuff can normally go greater distances offstage helps her more in some situations.
 

Juushichi

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I actually use it a lot on mid weights out of throws for GnW. It works just about out of any throw that puts characters in the air on heavier characters.

And considering that a lot of GnW's moves take a while to come out (have to be used preemptively) when edgeguarding, it's actually a very solid option for him covering people offstage.

A lot of people who played my Watch at APEX can attest to the former. I've recently been looking into adding the latter to my game.
 

SinisterB

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Ness has wonderful footstool capabilities.
 

SinisterB

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Came back here to include Lucas in my post.. Eartbound kids are tight lol

instant DAir is great but it still has poor horizontal range, and i'd usually use it in different scenarios

Since Ness gets a free aerial out of his Footstool I gravitate more to BAir or UAir for powerful finishers and strings respectively. The opportunity to footstool an opponent is something to keep in the back of your head because every once and a blue moon the situation practically begs for it, like punishing your opponent big time for knowing where they'll be.
 

Kink-Link5

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I believe footstooling characters incurs a (very) short animation before you can do attacks, but this might only be applied to a footstool that makes the opponent react. You can only footstool opponents when you're already in the air, and regular mid-air jumps are also Frame 1, so I don't see how footstooling would give Peach a faster N-Air than normal.

Wario's aerials are shorter in duration than Jigglypuff and tend to keep the opponent closer, because Wario's F-Air/N-Air are weaker in power, and Wario has a momentum-change aerial as well as a higher fastfall speed. That said, the fact that Jigglypuff can normally go greater distances offstage helps her more in some situations.
When do footstools hit the opponent? Frame 1? Frame 2?

If they cause the opponent to go into their footstool'd animation on frame 1 after pressing the button, then any move that can link from it is effectively "hitting" on that same frame since the footstool'd animation is static and the followup will work 100% of the time.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Sure, but, I don't think Peach benefits from N-Air being so fast. It could be any of her aerials due to float giving her such a positional advantage.
 

Spiffykins

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I've been thinking of testing this with Lucario: First hit of dair > ASC > footstool.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I've been playing around with Squirtle, and it seems that Forward-B at certain percents (~30-60%) seems to set up well for potential footstool follow-ups. It might be worth looking into, as Forward-B -> footstool -> N-Air/Down-B gimp would totally be a thing against most characters if it works.
 

Signia

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Where is the footstool hitbox? The 1 frame speed is great, but it might not always be worth getting into position for one. If you're already on top of them, I'm guessing footstool would often be the strictly best option.

Also, as a 1 frame move, you also have to consider how it can be used defensively. Could one combo-break an up-air chain by timing a footstool?
 

TheReflexWonder

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At and -slightly- below characters' feet, from what I can tell. When slowed down, there is a very slight "magnet" effect where they suddenly teleport to their head.

With footstooling, there's a lot to consider with that. Some characters find it more difficult than others to follow up at certain heights. Footstools are also techable in PM, so once opponents get used to it, it'll only set up a tech-chase position on-stage, so that might not be worth as much as a clean hit at times.

Much like airdodges, you cannot footstool while in tumble animation, so if a string of moves puts you in tumble, you're usually better off trying to stick out a hitbox.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Two things, though--

ZSS doesn't have a footstool like everyone else. Hers is quite literally a weak spike instead of a footstool. Not sure if that makes it go through animations to hit people.

Also, everyone else's footstools don't work unless the opponent isn't already shielding or doing an attack, so attempting a footstool offstage without comboing into it should usually just get you an aerial or B move to the face.
 

TheReflexWonder

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FSnulWJuR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCPDbJVQYq0

These videos do not show all the options listed below.

Here's a list of combos characters can do after footstooling a grounded opponent--

Lime means that it works on every character.
Yellow means that it either doesn't work on every character, or that I am unsure if it works on every characters. Waveland combos tend to be the iffiest on taller characters, like Ike and Dedede.

Universal (all characters): waveland -> Jab, waveland -> Grab (except for tether grabs)

Mario: Down-B, Waveland -> D-Smash, Waveland -> reverse U-Smash, N-Air
Luigi: Down-B, waveland -> U-Tilt, Waveland -> D-Smash, Waveland -> reverse U-Smash, N-Air, Up-B (sweetspot!)
Peach: Float -> anything, Aerial Glide toss -> lots of stuff, Waveland -> D-Smash
Bowser: Fastfall D-Air, Waveland -> Up-B
Wario: D-Air, Down-B, Waveland -> D-Tilt, Waveland -> Neutral-B, Forward-B
Donkey Kong: Waveland -> Up-B, Waveland -> Dash Attack
Diddy Kong: Aerial Glide Toss -> lots of stuff, Waveland -> D-Smash, Waveland -> Dash Attack, Up-B, D-Air
Captain Falcon: Down-B, Forward-B, Up-B
Link: Aerial Glide Toss -> lots of stuff, Waveland -> D-Smash
Toon Link: Aerial Glide Toss -> lots of stuff, D-Air
Zelda: Neutral-B, Waveland -> D-Tilt, Waveland -> U-Smash, waveland -> D-Smash
Sheik: Waveland -> any tilt, Waveland -> D-Smash, N-Air
Ganondorf: Forward-B, Down-B, Waveland -> F-Tilt, Up-B
Fox: Waveland -> U-Tilt, Waveland D-Smash, Waveland -> Down-B, Fastfall D-Air, Down-B
Falco: Waveland -> U-Tilt, Waveland D-Smash, Waveland -> Down-B, Down-B
Wolf: Waveland -> D-Smash, Down-B, Forward-B (short-cancel sweetspot), Waveland -> any tilt
Zero Suit Samus: Waveland -> any tilt, waveland -> U-Smash
Pikachu: Waveland -> D-Smash, Fastfall D-Air, N-Air
Jigglypuff: D-Air, N-Air, Down-B, Waveland -> move into position -> Down-B
Lucario: Waveland -> OHC silliness, D-Air
Squirtle: Waveland -> any tilt, Up-B
Ivysaur: Waveland -> F-Tilt, Waveland -> D-Tilt, F-Air, D-Air (sourspot), U-Air (meteor hit), N-Air
Charizard: Sweetspot N-Air, D-Air, Up-B
Ness: Double-jump cancel -> all aerials, Up-B, D-Air, N-Air
Lucas: Double-jump cancel -> all aerials, Down-B
Marth: Waveland -> D-Smash, F-Air, D-Air, Up-B
Ike: Fastfall D-Air
Pit: Waveland -> U-Tilt, Waveland -> any Smash, D-Air
King Dedede: Waveland -> U-Tilt, Fastfall D-Air, super-situational Waddle-dashing
R.O.B.: Waveland -> any Smash
Mr. Game and Watch: Up-B, Down-B (only partly-charged), waveland -> D-Tilt
Snake: Fastfall D-Air, Waveland -> F-Tilt, Waveland -> Down-B stick
Sonic: D-Air, Up-B, Down-B hold hitbox
 

DMG

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Not true! I incorporate them into Wario gameplay, but that's not fair because he's probably top 5 in all footstool related areas and it's pretty easy to land one with him.
 

Bryonato

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Footstooling is definitely something I will have to work to incorporate into my playstyle. I never really intentionally did it in Brawl, but I'm going to try binding it to X to see how that works out for me. Really kind of excited to see how I can work it in.
 

TheReflexWonder

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There are multiple examples of myself using footstools mid-combo in actual matches, which is the only reliable way to land them.

leelue, for all it's worth, it can only be done effectively when the opponent makes a mistake (by not attacking or shielding). That said, the only way people will see a need for change is by having people making use of it, which very, very few people have been doing.
 

The_NZA

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So footstooling only works if the opponent doesn't press anything (so not when their walking or jumping animation or shielding?"
 

TheReflexWonder

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Oh--I should've been more specific. It doesn't work if someone is doing an option caused by an Attack, Special, and/or Shield command. Movement doesn't prevent it, so if someone jumps, you can footstool the jump, and if someone is in hitstun, you can footstool them. It's still fairly limited, but, perhaps we'll see options open up in the future, such as after a landing drill D-Air, as a Jab follow-up, etc.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Practice makes perfect. People said the same thing about wavedashing for a long time.

Not that this is as universally useful as wavedashing in its current state, but, the point still remains.
 

The_NZA

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i wish you could footstool people shielding...it would be a good air mixup to footstool instead of doing an aerial.
 

Spiffykins

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It would also be incredibly broken. The only things that should beat shields is breaking or grabbing.
 

TheReflexWonder

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It would also be incredibly broken. The only things that should beat shields is breaking or grabbing.
No, it wouldn't. Allowing that wouldn't be anywhere close to broken, given that you don't get much frame advantage on it, and in order to land a grounded footstool, you have to be literally on top of the opponent, which is very rare in most matchups, given the fact that if you're not dashdancing when you're near each other but not actively spacing, either you, the opponent, or both of you are bad. It takes a ton of commitment to get that close and be on top of the opponent to footstool, and if you mess up, you're screwed.
 

Spiffykins

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No, it wouldn't. Allowing that wouldn't be anywhere close to broken, given that you don't get much frame advantage on it, and in order to land a grounded footstool, you have to be literally on top of the opponent, which is very rare in most matchups, given the fact that if you're not dashdancing when you're near each other but not actively spacing, either you, the opponent, or both of you are bad. It takes a ton of commitment to get that close and be on top of the opponent to footstool, and if you mess up, you're screwed.
Lucario would jump cancel his up smash, footstool, and dair every time he hits a shield, 2.1 all over again. Spacie shield pressure would be pretty pointless when you can just footstool them in the middle of it and force them out of their shield. It would essentially be an aerial tomahawk, and there would be no reason not to try to do it if you're in a position where it might work. It would definitely be broken.
 

DMG

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Spacies would still do regular shield pressure because Shine after aerial is pretty mandatory, and being close enough after shine/aerial knockback on shield to jump and footstool them quickly probably wouldn't be that feasible unless you were as close on top of them as possible and hopefully crossed up behind them. Since you can't run --> Jump out of shine, you don't have great horizontal aerial mobility to drift into them after Shine (but sticking your feet out with say the Fox/Falco Dair will cover their body or shield). You'd basically be doing it as a mixup to the initial approach in instead of doing an Aerial, except with no hitbox so generally a worse option.

Wouldn't be very useful for Fox because he'd rather Shine someone from the Ground, but Falco could have some fun.

Either way, footstools during combos is basically the only feasible application, but occasionally quite awesome. Wario's a great example character to look at/play around with footstool wise.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Lucario would jump cancel his up smash, footstool, and dair every time he hits a shield, 2.1 all over again. Spacie shield pressure would be pretty pointless when you can just footstool them in the middle of it and force them out of their shield. It would essentially be an aerial tomahawk, and there would be no reason not to try to do it if you're in a position where it might work. It would definitely be broken.
Why is Lucario hitting you with an Up-Smash that close, anyway? It's not like you should be shielding Lucario's anything anyway. Also, if the most Lucario gets out of hitting your shield is a D-Air, consider yourself lucky. That's nothing compared to what most characters would get out of it.

Space animal shield pressure isn't invalidated at all; since you have to be off the ground and at a certain height to footstool, footstool probably takes the same amount of time, if not longer, as a grab, and therefore loses to the same options that their grab would. Also, they have to press more buttons in that time than standard space animal shield pressure, meaning they have to be more technical than normal to manage that in comparison.

You seem to forget that it doesn't work against attacks, specials, and grabs, even in this hypothetical situation, so attempting to do it in those situations can very well get you hit, or put you in the air without any disadvantage to the footstooled person (putting you at a MASSIVE disadvantage), or U-Taunting if you're still on the ground at the time of the button press. It's nowhere near overpowered and would only give a decently-strong payoff in exchange for the rather risky being-so-close-to-the-opponent-and-hoping-he-just-shields and the considerable technical skill it would take to make it happen.

In fact, please go to Training Mode, set a CPU Wario (probably the easiest to do it against) to Jump, and when he's on the ground, try to footstool -> waveland -> anything before he's in his jump start-up. I guarantee you it's way harder than it looks, and that's ignoring the fact that they'll normally be dashdancing and throwing out attacks the whole time in a real match. Don't respond to this with the idea that it's broken until you at least try that much, please.
 

The_NZA

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It would basically be a way to do air to shield pressure at personal risk...In smash you don't really have a way of doing that. Other games, you can jump attack and hit crouched opponents ––even if someone is blocking, you can always apply some pressure. In smash, the only pressure you can apply if your opponent is in the air is breaking their shield a bit, or getting to the ground safely and grabbing them. More aerial pressures for the quick of fingers would be nice to see.

Not to mention, you would almost have to hard read the shield or have perfect character control to use footstooling because, in case you miss the foot stool, youll be in grab range. Making footstool beat shield means characters have options outside of empty jump ->grab. If anything, I could see it buffing characters who aren't heavy who can't do empty jumps all that easily.
 

Kink-Link5

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NZA, there's this strategy called empty hop grab and a dynamic of the air game not present in other fighters. Jumping in Street Fighter is absolutely a suboptimal thing to just throw out since you are dedicated to this super slow, big jump arc compared to being able to SHFF in Smash in just a split second.
 

The_NZA

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Regardless of the fact that it works better in smash than street fighter, it still seems to be silly mechanically, especially when its most applicable to fast fallers like fox/wolf/falco. The option should just exist out of the jump itself. But that's my opinion.
 

leelue

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I've been forcing myself to do this. Normally it's ******** and nothing happens but that's mostly (read:all) because I don't know what to do.
However, I've been downthrow>footstooling people offstage with snake and by golly is that funny.
 
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