FLUDD!

[AdaptiveTrigger]

I never found the push effect of Mario's Fludd to be very overwhelming unless I was Ike. It definitely needs a few buffs if it is to have any practical uses. Having to spend roughly 2-3 seconds charging just for a stall effect that fails to even push most characters without doing any damage at all is hard to justify.

I always visualized Fludd being capable of being used as a recovery move if used in the air (obviously this would mean you'd only be able to charge it on the ground). That was pretty much the Fludd's best use in Sunshine honestly.

 

[Bedoop]

Oh boy, am I ever stepping into a battlefield. What have I gotten myself into.
The most controversial thing that isn't a Character itself, F.L.U.D.D. debuted in Super Mario Sunshine--and we all know how that went--and wound up making it into Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the Nintendo Wii, making the Mario Tornado become a Downwards Aerial. As soon as Brawl was released, a majority--AND I MEAN A MAJORITY--of people Hated it, Despised it, and often removed it in almost every Brawl Mod that could do so. So, why am I here today? I'm here to teach you that F.L.U.D.D. had a great idea and thought to it, but--somehow--did the tinyest things wrong to tick everyone off, but it shouldn't have. So let's get started.

FLUDD in SSBB
I could go on and on about how F.L.U.D.D. is so controversial in SSBB, but let's just run through what F.L.U.D.D. was SUPPOSED to do, and what Everyone and their Grandma's bashed it for.

What F.L.U.D.D. was supposed to do:
+Give Mario a better Zoning/Edgeguarding Metagame using the same physics as Squirtle's Water Gun
+Give Luigi more of a unique moveset, making the Luigi Tornado his unique thing.
+Was supposed to appeal to the fans of Mario Sunshine, adding more appeal to the game.
+Make Mario more of an all-rounder.

What people thought F.L.U.D.D. did:
-"It Ruined Mario's recovery." Isn't the Double Jump + Cape + Super Jump Punch good enough, Mr. Picky?
-"It doesn't do damage!" Squirtle's Water Gun doesn't either (aside from the no-charge mini attack thingy), and I don't see you complaining about that. Infact, some F.L.U.D.D. haters even ask for Squirtle back, just as he was before, and still bash F.L.U.D.D.
-"It doesn't help with his edgeguarding game, stupid!" Probably because most of the characters who could do more than 2 jumps could Glide and/or have ridiculous recovery. Like Jigglypuff and Meta-Game Knight. Plus gliding has been cut for SSB4, so that argument is basically invalid now.

Yeah, F.L.U.D.D. got a bit more hate than he asked for. Now here's something that F.L.U.D.D. accidentally screwed up, and everyone got p---ed about it. Courtesy of the people who take time.

As you can (hopefully) see, the hitboxer--boxes send anyone diagonally upward, which would make sense for the first 3 hitboxes here, but doesn't angle down where it pushes with where the water goes. That's the little mistake that made everyone angry, the fact that F.L.U.D.D. pushes the opponent UP, instead of just to the side and/or down at the later frames, giving the multi-jumpers more time to recover, unless they've already used all of their jumps, which for characters like Jigglypuff, Meta Knight and, on occasion, Pit or Charizard, isn't really likely.
While everyone else has a rough time with it, on certain stages pushing them further away just might save their life, in places with platforms above a low point, such as Hyrule, New Pork City, Skyworld and 75m.
On the plus side, our little Waterpack may be one of the most useful tools in Mario's aresenal, especially in places like Final Destination, Battlefield, and any stage that's big (like New Pork City and Hyrule, ironically) or can be walked off of for a SD (like Mario Bros., Green Hill Zone, Shadow Moses Island, and ironically 75m.) or is relatively small in general (like Final Destination), since Mario can push them away from him to start throwing Fireballs for even more spacing in big stages, can flat-out KO players by pushing them off the walk-off-able stages, or be able to push them off for a good set-up for a Meteor Smash, or more Fireballs. You're probably still going to cry about Mario's recovery, though. Cry some more. F.L.U.D.D. needs more Ammunition. It runs off your tears.
Anywho, now we take a look at the second subject; how it seperates from . Which basically means, Luigi Time.

Luigi using the Luigi Cyclone in SSBM.
Ah, the Luigi Cyclone. Owned by arguably the most Over Powered Vertical Recovery on a non-multijump Character, Luigi. With the power of Jumping, using the Tornado, Double Jumping and then using the Super Jump Punch gives Luigi one of the highest jumping abilities in the entire game of SSBB. But before then, he used to share the same specials, minus the Green Missle (even the same sound effects but with a higher pitch, for crying out loud.) with his "Little Big Brother." (<--Direct Quote)
SSBB not only gave Luigi his own voice, but an abundance of unique moves, abilities, and the privlage of the rightful ownership or the now-unique Luigi Cyclone, seperating him even farther apart from his Little Big Brother. Which is good, despite popular opinion. Change is good.
Anywho, back to Mario + FLUDD.

How about we take some direct quotes from http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/FLUDD , why don't we?
"The spray will push enemies along with the water, but does no damage, which means that it doesn't grant an opponent the third jump again, making it good for edgeguarding. The move is hard to use and learn, and requires some practice to use it effectively."
"If an opponent is able to outprioritize F.L.U.D.D.'s water spray with an attack, the attacker will be caught with significant hitlag, possibly enough for Mario to make an approach."
"This move, as well as Squirtle's Water Gun are particularly useful against Ness and Lucas because it pushes them away from their PK Thunder. The water has high priority and can cut through various projectiles. Since the water doesn't cause the opponents to flinch, it can be effective to steal KOs. Also, while the move does no damage, it is still a Water-type move, and as such it deals extra knockback to Charizard, and less to Ivysaur." (<--Yes, that's a thing. SSBB/SSB4 Charizard Mains beware, for F.L.U.D.D. may be your downfall. Or Greninja. Whichever you prefer. They both run off tears.)

So...Yeah. I have nothing else to type. So just let all that sink in. Change isn't Bad. If you don't like F.L.U.D.D., deal with it.
(Yes I made a seperate thread about this. Don't taze me, bro. )

 

[Metal B]

I would like the FLUDD to have a new mechanic: Making a character or an area wet.
If Mario hits somebody with the FLUDD, the character or an area gets the status-effect wet. In both cases the opponent has a high chance of dripping for a fixed time. It would actually be funny, having dripping back as a move and making Mario a even better all rounder with a areal-control and/or a status-effect move.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I think that the FLUDD is cool.
I've noticed that Mario's special moves represent a different era of Mario.
The Fireball and Jump Punch represent the first Super Mario Bros., where those were the only things he could do.
The Cape represents a further period like the SNES, when Mario's array of power-ups started to expand.
And the FLUDD represents the modern 3D games, each of which usually has a different gimmick (like the FLUDD itself for example).

 

[Jerm]

The F.L.U.U.D finally managed to land a hit during some footage during Nintendo's digital E3 event, and it had a hitbox! Now this could potentially be a customized option since they showed quite a bit of customized movesets. Either way this will hopefully deter some of the hate Mario's down special has received in the past and will also hopefully make it much more useful than what it was in Brawl.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I hope FLUDD has a customization option that turns it into the jetpack. Gimping opponents with the water as you fly overhead would be the funniest KO move ever.

 

[AbbiDood]

I think it was a pretty obvious thing to say they were gonna try to make Fludd useful one way or another. Haven't seen footage of this change yet, so if anyone has a link to Youtube showing this change.. that'd be great.

 

[Jerm]

Here's a link to a video showing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odUjMhc6YgU#t=168

Aaaand here is a picture of all of Mario's customizable movesets!

 

[Blackrider213]

Great find with the pictures. It's cool that we can see both the shocking cape and scalding FLUDD in that video. I wonder how high that Super Jump can go.

 

[Jerm]

Great find with the pictures. It's cool that we can see both the shocking cape and scalding FLUDD in that video. I wonder how high that Super Jump can go.

Not sure, but I think I might opt for the epic power behind the Explosive Punch. It's like Luigi's UpB but doesn't require a sweet spot <3

 

[Veggi]

I don't want to sound rude, but I feel like a lot of people who hate FLUDD in this thread should be more open-minded. Saying that FLUDD should not be in Mario's moveset because it was not a good move in Brawl is not logical because the move can be altered by the developers to be more effective while still being the same move. In Mario Sunshine, FLUDD was way more powerful than it was in Brawl.

The advantages that Sunshine FLUDD had over Brawl FLUDD are as follows:

-The ability to run while shooting
-A longer stream
-A longer duration
-More power
-No charge time until it ran out of water. Once he entered water, it refilled extremely quickly.

Making Mario into a more effective character does not have to be a matter of removing FLUDD, but rather bringing it closer to the source material in any of the ways I mentioned.

As it stands, FLUDD is more interesting than most of the moves in Brawl and provides many uses. The problem here is not its placement in Mario's moveset, but rather the developers not allowing it to provide those uses as effectively as it could. Cape is also not a replacement for FLUDD because both of them are compliments to each other and not mutually exclusive. Any experienced Mario player will tell you that they use both moves in conjunction. A pattern I see here is that all of the recognizable Brawl Mario players that I see on this thread speak in defense of FLUDD. This is because they have played the Mario enough to realize that it is not useless.

 

[Koopaul]

I think the idea that Mario is still using a move based on Super Mario Sunshine and not Galaxy is enough to be kind of irked. I love Sunshine, I really do. But it was time to say good-bye to that era and move on.

 

[Coolwhip]

I don't want to sound rude, but I feel like a lot of people who hate FLUDD in this thread should be more open-minded. Saying that FLUDD should not be in Mario's moveset because it was not a good move in Brawl is not logical because the move can be altered by the developers to be more effective while still being the same move. In Mario Sunshine, FLUDD was way more powerful than it was in Brawl.

The advantages that Sunshine FLUDD had over Brawl FLUDD are as follows:

-The ability to run while shooting
-A longer stream
-A longer duration
-More power
-No charge time until it ran out of water. Once he entered water, it refilled extremely quickly.

Making Mario into a more effective character does not have to be a matter of removing FLUDD, but rather bringing it closer to the source material in any of the ways I mentioned.

As it stands, FLUDD is more interesting than most of the moves in Brawl and provides many uses. The problem here is not its placement in Mario's moveset, but rather the developers not allowing it to provide those uses as effectively as it could. Cape is also not a replacement for FLUDD because both of them are compliments to each other and not mutually exclusive. Any experienced Mario player will tell you that they use both moves in conjunction. A pattern I see here is that all of the recognizable Brawl Mario players that I see on this thread speak in defense of FLUDD. This is because they have played the Mario enough to realize that it is not useless.

Only us REAL mario mains know how useful mario's fludd can be.

 

[Dairz]

I think the idea that Mario is still using a move based on Super Mario Sunshine and not Galaxy is enough to be kind of irked. I love Sunshine, I really do. But it was time to say good-bye to that era and move on.

If Mario is still rolling with a move based on a power up appearing in only one game, *cough* Cape *cough*, then I see no reason to ditch FLUDD.

 

[Luigi#1]

I think the idea that Mario is still using a move based on Super Mario Sunshine and not Galaxy is enough to be kind of irked. I love Sunshine, I really do. But it was time to say good-bye to that era and move on.

We have an entire character taking inspiration from Galaxy in all of her special moves. I don't even need to say who.

 

[Knight Dude]

Not sure if I had mentioned it here, but we got to see the other versions of F.L.U.D.D are. One is called Scalding FLUDD, and the other is called High Pressure FLUDD. I'm guessing High Pressure will be faster and pushes way farther than the original, but it doesn't shoot at a constant stream. It could do a tiny bit of damage too, though I don't know about that.

Then we've got Scalding FLUDD, which sounds like it'll be the damaging variant of FLUDD.

 

[McMilla1228]

I feel Like most Mario's will go with High Pressure for a KO move.

 

[Coolwhip]

http://smashboards.com/threads/learning-to-use-marios-fludd-101.335876/

This is a thread i've made awhile back about the fludd. I am the fludd master! HAHA

 

[Veggi]

Hmmm...that's funny, because I'm pretty sure I'm the FLUDD master. I'm super interested in high-pressure FLUDD though. The only thing is every drawback I can think of for it, I don't want. Haha.

 

[alex6309]

I hope F.L.U.U.D. at least has it's charge time reduced or the ability to move while shooting it. How open I am is what makes me hate using it.

If Mario is still rolling with a move based on a power up appearing in only one game, *cough* Cape *cough*, then I see no reason to ditch FLUDD.

Cape was in Yoshi's Island when Baby Mario gets a power up.
Cape was in Super Mario Bros 3 GBA in the extra world.
Super Mario World has been re-released multiple times and is considered a memorable and great Mario game.

 

[Veggi]

I think that Mario's cape in Smash shouldn't even be considered the ones in his games. They have absolutely nothing in common at all except for cosmetics.

 

[Bedoop]

High Pressure F.L.U.D.D. for the win.
All the win.

 

[McMilla1228]

I think that Mario's cape in Smash shouldn't even be considered the ones in his games. They have absolutely nothing in common at all except for cosmetics.

I'unno... The source material and Smash Bros. capes both slow Mario's descent, and when you flip it in SMW, it may not flip enemies, but it does do damage.

 

[Veggi]

In Brawl, it stops his fall speed completely for a bit instead of being an effect that slows his fall speed continuously. Also, almost every move does damage. I feel like using that kind of reasoning would be like pacifying a DK main that wants a roll attack by saying that his other moves do damage. The animations for both moves are completely different.

 

[Bedoop]

In Brawl, it stops his fall speed completely for a bit instead of being an effect that slows his fall speed continuously.

If it did slow his decent, it would probably make Mario OP since he could just "Glide" towards the distance needed for an UpB to make it. Just saying. :\

 

[McMilla1228]

In Brawl, it stops his fall speed completely for a bit instead of being an effect that slows his fall speed continuously. Also, almost every move does damage. I feel like using that kind of reasoning would be like pacifying a DK main that wants a roll attack by saying that his other moves do damage. The animations for both moves are completely different.

The animations are different, but the move follows the same functions as the original. Now I want Mario to actually have the cape on and spin around like a lunatic the same way he does in SMW. Make it happen Nintendo.

 

[Veggi]

If it did slow his decent, it would probably make Mario OP since he could just "Glide" towards the distance needed for an UpB to make it. Just saying. :\

In Brawl, Pit, Charizard, and Metaknight have a glide that doesn't lose any height whatsoever and only one of those three are good. Mario having a dramatically worse version of that wouldn't make him OP.

 

[Ryan.]

I hope with customized move-sets you can use other nozzles from Super Mario Sunshine.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I hope with customized move-sets you can use other nozzles from Super Mario Sunshine.

You have "High Pressure FLUDD" and "Scalding FLUDD"

Pokémon confirmed to be a in the same game as Mario.

 

[Ragna22]

I think Flubb just needed a buff, even fully charged he doesn't quite push opponents far enough and the hit box is awkward as hell.

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

I think that the FLUDD is cool.
I've noticed that Mario's special moves represent a different era of Mario.
The Fireball and Jump Punch represent the first Super Mario Bros., where those were the only things he could do.
The Cape represents a further period like the SNES, when Mario's array of power-ups started to expand.
And the FLUDD represents the modern 3D games, each of which usually has a different gimmick (like the FLUDD itself for example).

'Cept FLUDD as a move sucks - it is great in concept but Sakurai messed it up.

Sometimes I wonder about Sakurai, I look at all these newcomers with awesome, powerful moves.
Then I look at Mario's FLUDD and Sonic's two spindashes...

 

[WwwWario]

I don't think it is a placeholder. I think it's final. After Sakurai revealed Pac-Man, he spoke a bit about Customized moves. There, he showed all of Mario's 12 moves. And I highly doubt he would make 2 different versions of the FLUDD if he was going to replace it with something else.

Let's just hope it's better than Brawl. I have faith, though

 

[Z1GMA]

Aside from pushing ppl away, a fully charged FLUDD should do around 5% passive damage (if all of it hits).
This'd make the move a lot more versatile.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

FLUDD is actually a decent move. People just don't know how to use it properly, they dismiss it as lame from the get-go and stop trying to use it at all. The say the same thing about DK's FS which is actually quite powerful.

 

[the smash nerd]

Ok Galaxy Spin oror Neutral-air

 

[jigglover]

The spin does literally exactly the same thing as the cape lol. I imagine it would repel projectiles as well as having not only a little stall in the air, but an air boost as well. It would be a cape doing damage and usable on both sides. Why would it replace FLUDD in this case?

I think that Mario's moveset should be transformed a bit. Spin attack neutral special, super jump up special, FLUDD down special and Mario's side special being the fireballs. However, Mario could switch between FLUDD's nozzles depending on the way he uses his down special (so the down special has Mario pulling FLUDD out or putting it away). Dash Nozzle would just be a powerful dash attack (faster and weaker than Ike's side neutral in Brawl, Side FLUDD Attack), Hover Nozzle would allow Mario to glide (like Palutena's Jump Glide, but on a flatter angle rather than Palutena's ever-descending one, (Down FLUDD Attack)). Squirt Nozzle could just deal splash damage as well as pushing opponents away (Neutral FLUDD Attack), and Rocket Nozzle could basically be Palutena's Rocket Jump special, but dealing splash damage, being a bit weaker and flying even higher (Up FLUDD Attack). Maybe Mario could even use FLUDD again afterwards to ground pound on the Rocket Nozzle. This actually allows FLUDD to have a purpose, and would be an incredibly way to represent the masterpiece that is Super Mario Sunshine, and it shafts the Spin Attack from Mario Galaxy in too!

As if Rosalina isn't enough to rep the two games...

 

[ryuu seika]

This idea brings back his down special spin and, while it may not be the Tatsu, it needn't be. It is a relevant move in its own right, more so than Mario Tatsu ever was, and would provide some interesting gameplay. Sadly, I get the impression that Rosalina is the Galaxy rep and all other Mario characters will be staying with their less spaceage styles.

 

[Veggi]

The spin does literally exactly the same thing as the cape lol. I imagine it would repel projectiles as well as having not only a little stall in the air, but an air boost as well. It would be a cape doing damage and usable on both sides. Why would it replace FLUDD in this case?

I think that Mario's moveset should be transformed a bit. Spin attack neutral special, super jump up special, FLUDD down special and Mario's side special being the fireballs.

I came into this thread to say exactly this.

Think about it:

Cape Uses in Smash: Reflect projectiles, turn around opponents, and give a boost to recovery.

Galaxy Spin uses in Galaxy: Reflect projectiles, disable opponents by spinning them around, and give a boost to recovery.

One of these moves Mario actually uses in his games. I think it's obvious that the cape should be replaced by the Galaxy Spin and FLUDD should be buffed because it's a unique move.

 

[D-idara]

Or he should just stick with moves that are recurring across all his games(Fireball, SJP, Tornado), or moves that provide a unique function(like cape).

Mario shouldn't get his moveset overhauled every game just so he can fit the flavour of the month.

Mario Galaxy is not the flavor of the month, Sunshine is.

 

[Clint Jaguar]

Ugh, I hate how they brought back Fludd. It really doesn't fit well with the rest of Mario's moveset. He's all about close combat, so having a move that (when it works) pushes the opponent away makes no sense. They should have just brought back the tornado move but redid the animation so it looks more like the spin move from the Galaxy games.