FLUDD!

[AppleCracker]

Oh oof, that'd be hell to program... hard to make it worthwhile/balanced. Maybe he should just take something from the new Super Mario World 3DS game... Cat suit, anyone?

GIVE ME THAT NOW!!! But how would it work?

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm so using Scalding FLUDD. It should be fun to use. And it'd be more useful.

 

[McMilla1228]

Ugh, I hate how they brought back Fludd. It really doesn't fit well with the rest of Mario's moveset. He's all about close combat, so having a move that (when it works) pushes the opponent away makes no sense. They should have just brought back the tornado move but redid the animation so it looks more like the spin move from the Galaxy games.

If they wanted to use Fludd, they could have used Mario's spin spray move from Sunshine. Also I love how your avatar matches your comment.

 

[Clint Jaguar]

If they wanted to use Fludd, they could have used Mario's spin spray move from Sunshine.

As long as it still functioned in a similar manner to the tornado, then I agree. I just hate the fact that Mario was given a defensive move that pushes the opponent away from him.

Also I love how your avatar matches your comment.

I been told that before

 

[1TheBlueWii1]

I find FLUDD a pretty useless keep away tool in Brawl. It was hard to control after its fully charged and fired, nor did it push the opponents the way I would like it to. And the hope of seeing the 'nado coming back was crushed after seeing this:

...pretty dissappointing.
However, I do hope it has more push against opponents in this game.

 

[McMilla1228]

High Pressure Fludd Looks to be a potential KO move.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

F.L.U.D.D. was kinda disappointing, but with these custom moves there seem to be some newfound hope. Scalding F.L.U.D.D. and High Pressure F.L.U.D.D. look much more useful.
I honestly can't wait to see what they actually do.

 

[Bedoop]

F.L.U.D.D. was kinda disappointing, but with these custom moves there seem to be some newfound hope. Scalding F.L.U.D.D. and High Pressure F.L.U.D.D. look much more useful.
I honestly can't wait to see what they actually do.

Probably just deal Damage and give More Knockback, respectively.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

well i like fludd i think its great and one of mario's best tools especially since its push back is way more powerful now.

 

[meleebrawler]

High Pressure looks like what happens when you press A while spraying in Sunshine.

Looks to be a sort of 'shotgun' spray that is very short-ranged with strong knockback, or strong push at worst.

You guys complain about FLUDD, but let's be real here; was his Mario Tornado REALLY that much better? Sure, I guess it
did fit in better with his gameplay, but it was weak, punishable and didn't lead into anything that worthwhile.

When you're Mr. Average, you need unique tools to stand out. First he got his turnaround Cape (NO OTHER FIGHTER CAN DO THIS) and now, with Squirtle gone, he has the only edgeguard move that doesn't give a third jump back.

 

[VegaPunk]

i found a video that shows Mario using the tornado

 

[Knight Dude]

You guys complain about FLUDD, but let's be real here; was his Mario Tornado REALLY that much better? Sure, I guess it
did fit in better with his gameplay, but it was weak, punishable and didn't lead into anything that worthwhile.

When you're Mr. Average, you need unique tools to stand out. First he got his turnaround Cape (NO OTHER FIGHTER CAN DO THIS) and now, with Squirtle gone, he has the only edgeguard move that doesn't give a third jump back.

The Tornado mostly helped with Recovery. Not having it around does hinder Mario slightly. That's why some people wanted Mid-Air FLUDD to use the Hover Nozzle. So that way, whatever recovery options the Tornado can no longer provide, have a new found home in FLUDD.

I found the Tornado to be relatively useful in Melee, It could get in a few good hits when I needed it too. But I'm not a pro player, so I'm sure someone with decent skill could have punished the attack most of the times I had thrown it out.

In all honesty, I'm just glad we get a variant that'll deal damage. That's pretty close to what I was asking for.

Besides, we're getting Doc Mario back supposedly, so chances are he could have the Tornado instead. I hope Doc has Melee Mario's Tornado, it was the more useful of the two.

 

[Raijinken]

The Tornado mostly helped with Recovery. Not having it around does hinder Mario slightly. That's why some people wanted Mid-Air FLUDD to use the Hover Nozzle. So that way, whatever recovery options the Tornado can no longer provide, have a new found home in FLUDD.

I found the Tornado to be relatively useful in Melee, It could get in a few good hits when I needed it too. But I'm not a pro player, so I'm sure someone with decent skill could have punished the attack most of the times I had thrown it out.

In all honesty, I'm just glad we get a variant that'll deal damage. That's pretty close to what I was asking for.

Besides, we're getting Doc Mario back supposedly, so chances are he could have the Tornado instead. I hope Doc has Melee Mario's Tornado, it was the more useful of the two.

If they use the clones to give past movesets a means of returning, people will be far more accepting. Especially in Fludd's case. A supersoaker does not belong in Smash.

That said, the apparent reduction in ledge snapping may make that slight push more effective than before. We'll have to wait and see, though I really don't expect it to be useful.

 

[Knight Dude]

If they use the clones to give past movesets a means of returning, people will be far more accepting. Especially in Fludd's case. A supersoaker does not belong in Smash.

That said, the apparent reduction in ledge snapping may make that slight push more effective than before. We'll have to wait and see, though I really don't expect it to be useful.

I don't know, it seems stronger. It might push further. But of course I'm also one of the guys who thinks the variant moves would make perfect sense to be added to competitive play. So the alt FLUDDS could have their own uses.

 

[Raijinken]

I don't know, it seems stronger. It might push further. But of course I'm also one of the guys who thinks the variant moves would make perfect sense to be added to competitive play. So the alt FLUDDS could have their own uses.

I agree on the custom moves, and if that's the case, I can't imagine they would manage to make all three entirely useless. But whether that matters at higher level play depends on if customs are allowed or not, which is another topic for another thread.

 

[McMilla1228]

Some

You guys complain about FLUDD, but let's be real here; was his Mario Tornado REALLY that much better? Sure, I guess it
did fit in better with his gameplay, but it was weak, punishable and didn't lead into anything that worthwhile.

When you're Mr. Average, you need unique tools to stand out. First he got his turnaround Cape (NO OTHER FIGHTER CAN DO THIS) and now, with Squirtle gone, he has the only edgeguard move that doesn't give a third jump back.

Sometimes I do low damage Dthrow to Tornado to build up percentage. You can also follow it up with a Forward Smash if your opponent DIs right.

 

[ConeZ]

I hope with customized move-sets you can use other nozzles from Super Mario Sunshine.

I agree, with that addition and the America skin, I MIGHT just main Mario xD

Though it is close fight between him, Pikachu, and a few of the newcomers.... and Wario of course xD
I WANT TO TRY OUT SO MUCH

 

[Z'zgashi]

So Im sure someone has said something about this already (but I havent seen it), but FLUDD is grab/roll/shield cancelable, and when you are right in someone's face as they land with a move/air dodge, it pushes them FAR. Ive been getting a ton of reward out of this by jumping into people's landings (especially if theyre coming from the ledge) and charging FLUDD mid air right before I land, and reading/predicting with either FLUDD to push them way offstage again, a grab, or shield.

 

[!BSP]

So Im sure someone has said something about this already (but I havent seen it), but FLUDD is grab/roll/shield cancelable, and when you are right in someone's face as they land with a move/air dodge, it pushes them FAR. Ive been getting a ton of reward out of this by jumping into people's landings (especially if theyre coming from the ledge) and charging FLUDD mid air right before I land, and reading/predicting with either FLUDD to push them way offstage again, a grab, or shield.

If you're charging FLUDD in the air and input an airdodge, does Mario still airdodge?

 

[Captain Norris]

Mario's default FLUDD this time around is actualyl pretty darn good. It has a lot of pushing force imo. I ahev stolen a few kos with it when people are recovering to the edge. Less magnetic ledges helps this too.

 

[Z'zgashi]

If you're charging FLUDD in the air and input an airdodge, does Mario still airdodge?

Yes, but air dodges in general kinda suck now lol

 

[!BSP]

I think anyone giving Mario Tornado credit is probably giving it too much. Pre-Project M, the move was meh at best. I don't see Mario players using it in 64, and the most it does for recovery is delay the inevitable: you'll get your height gain, and then your opponent will hit you. I guess it could spike, assuming no DI from the opponent.

In melee, I never see Shroomed/A rookie/Mango/Boss/pretty much any Mario/Doc player use it outside of the (slight) stall it gives in mid air. Smart opponents will just hit you after or during it, or just not do anything and edgehog you anyway since the distance you gain is barely worth it. Offensive-wise, I'm positive it can be crouch cancelled and you'll probably be punished for using it, and that's not even considering the garbage priority the move has.

I'm not saying the FLUDD is the best thing ever, but it's far from useless, and I think it has more potential than the tornado, unless nintendo makes it the PM version. Even then, with no magnetic ledges, I still think FLUDD would have more use. Time will tell, and we'll even have Doc's tornado to measure it against.

 

[Nat Goméz]

I find the regular Flood in this game actually more useful (want to point out that in Brawl i never had the chance of doing it right, but here i was able to do it cause it has better range and push them farther), interrupting the recovery of Link (even when it's much better now), Megaman, Pikachu one time (hard though), and Villager... well that's impossible, but if you push them anyway you left them in a hard position making them more predictable and punishable, looking directly to villager cause his recovery is insanely good but punishable as hell

Also with the cut of gliding this move will be less situational and work with most of the recoverys

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

F.L.U.D.D. always seemed very useless to me, but the Scalding F.L.U.D.D. custom special might give the move much more use.

 

[Captain Norris]

FLUDD is so good this game...

 

[!BSP]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jV-D_i070E&feature=youtube_gdata_player. Part 1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wZB8YfZcxnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player part 2

Please watch. FLUDD is not useless. Situational? Yes. Useless? No.

I'll begin a compilation of FLUDD strategies vs. characters, both from theory and practice.

Link: same stuff in brawl. Shoot his up B to make him go up. Free cape.

Pika: same in brawl. Shoot him in quick attack to push him up. Free cape.

Example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=93m2PzwaEjg

Mega man. You can push him, may make a difference. If you have to cape though, he gets his jump back

Villager: Loid Rocket can be caped. If Villager doesn't sweet spot the ledge with his up B, he can't avoid going helpless. Same with Loid. Hmm...what move is pretty good at making people miss the ledge? Mario should be able to KO villager at high level if if he uses up B or Side B.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Need more vids from Smash 4.

 

[!BSP]

Can't help you there. No 3DS, nor do I plan on getting one unless it gets really big down here.

Regardless, there's no reason why the stuff I said shouldn't work in a game with less magnetic ledges.

Edit: friend has the demo
Edit 2: expanded theorycraft.

Falcon: shooting him mid up B makes him shoot straight up, leading to an easy cape. Shooting him mid Side B basically cancels the move. With cape's nerfed range, I wouldn't be surprised if he can grab Mario from a cape attempt with up B. We'll have to wait and see on this, but, regardless, FLUDD destroys Falcon Dive and Raptor Boost.

Bowser: Up B OOS has always been a great tactic for Bowser. Bait it, land with FLUDD instead and shoot him into the air for a free punish, or off of the stage for a free gimp. Like most moves, shooting him in the middle of it to push him up and set up a free cape.

Bowser jr.: his up B will get destroyed, probably his side B too.

Charizard: it destroys his up B too, and with no gliding, he's even more limited.

Lucario: eh, we'll see. I don't remember FLUDD being that effective vs. him, but there weren't many Lucarios around me either.

Doc/Mario: Up B OOS is very risky around a charged FLUDD. If you whiff, you die.

Duck Hunt Dog: I think his up B is a Duck carrying him? You can FLUDD him to force him to miss the ledge sweetspot. Free cape and/or punish. If he tries to fly over and past you, FLUDD him off the stage. If he resists that, you still get a free punish.

Fox/Falco: Their up Bs get pushed a lot mid startup. I'm not positive on how side B will be affected, and it may be less useful since Fox and Falco don't go helpless from it, but this will also depend on the lag after the move.

Ganon: same as Falcon

Greninja: not sure, but probably similar to what happens to Pikachu when you shoot him mid quick attack.

Ike: lol. Ike has to base his recovery around FLUDD. It stops quickdraw and it can push Aether very easily.

Link: if you ever catch link without a double jump, he should die to FLUDD. If you FLUDD link while he doesn't have his jump, he has 3 options.

1: do nothing, and get caped because mario can move before him after using FLUDD.
2: Up B mid FLUDD, go Straight up, then proceed to get caped.
2.5: Up B right before Mario capes him, and die because his up B needs momentum to go any horizontal distance.
3: Airdodge through the water and die from being unable to make it back. FLUDD's water will also eat any projectiles he throws trying to cover himself.
4: Up B OOS and in general is risky for him with FLUDD around. If you shoot him, he goes helpless and most likely offstage.

Little Mac: his recovery is already terrible, but to add insult to injury, you can shoot him mid up B and expect him to go flying because his up B only goes straight up.

DeDeDe: FLUDDing super dedede jump makes it go mostly vertical, setting you up for an easy cape. If he tries to go over you, shoot him off the other side. If he tries to mix you up and retreats back towards the ledge, FLUDD him off.

Lucina and Marth: FLUDD them to stop their aerial momentum and go in for a cape. If they up B early to hit you, they won't have enough momentum to make it back. If they wait, they get caped. If they miss an up B OOS, they die.

MK: He misses an up B OOS, he dies. With no glide, FLUDD will probably wreck his new up B too. I've heard tornado has increased ending lag? Shoot him at the end and force him to go helpless, or just shoot him off the stage.

Luigi: FLUDD's water halts green missile, and if he goes for an up B and misses, he either dies or takes a free punish.

Ness: Shoot him so his PK Thunder misses.

Zelda/Sheik: If you FLUDD the startup of their up Bs, they will never sweetspot the ledge. If you FLUDD their landing with their up Bs, they get pushed up into the air in helpless. Death or punish either way.

Villager: Jump at him with your back towards him. If he tries to go really low with balloon trip, Dair and pop his balloons. If he tries to fly over you, FLUDD him off of the other edge, or he takes a punish and is put back into the same situation. If he tries to go straight towards the ledge with balloon trip, shoot him and force him to miss. What's he going to do?

Olimar: same as villager, except even more limited.

Pikachu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP2TOzPBRIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93m2PzwaEjg

Pit/Dark Pit: I already feel bad for these two. Shoot them mid up B and drastically alter their flight plans.

Rosalina: shoot her mid up B. Laugh.

 

[PikaSamus]

Well, looks like we got a damaging FLUDD in Mario's Scalding FLUDD custom attack! I never understood why it didn't do damage in the first place, as it damaged enemies in Sunshine. I also thought the same about Squirtle's Water Gun, but Squirtle drew one of the many short straws for this game.

 

[MarioMariox2]

I do get your point, and I agree that FLUDD isn't completely useless, but I have to agree with A2 and say I'm more comfortable with the Brawl vids going to the Brawl character discussion.

That said, FLUDD range buffs, how will it affect dashing to cape and how far you can push 'em?

 

[!BSP]

The game is basically brawl 2.0. I'll replace the brawl vids if I can find other footage or make some myself. The only problem is that most people don't know how FLUDD can be useful, so I may have to do it.

I'm putting the theory in my 2nd post in the OP. maybe people will try it in the demo.

As for your question, mario is faster himself, so he shouldn't have problems getting to them in time to cape. The buffed pushing power may eliminate the need to cape in most situations. We ll see.

 

[Captain Norris]

The game is basically brawl 2.0. I'll replace the brawl vids if I can find other footage or make some myself. The only problem is that most people don't know how FLUDD can be useful, so I may have to do it.

I'm putting the theory in my 2nd post in the OP. maybe people will try it in the demo.

As for your question, mario is faster himself, so he shouldn't have problems getting to them in time to cape. The buffed pushing power may eliminate the need to cape in most situations. We ll see.

It isn't Brawl 2.0.

 

[gamer8]

Hey guys, I've been wondering about Mario's Fludd customizations mostly and how good they might be and saw them for the first time in a stream really early in the morning. http://www.twitch.tv/fslink/b/569465422 at 2:17:00 he had scalding Fludd and high pressure Fludd as well as a few other Mario customs he showed off. I'd like to hear what you think of his Fludd customs especially.

 

[!BSP]

It isn't Brawl 2.0.

You are correct. I just saw how FLUDD interacts with Pikachu's skull bash. It's going to be hilarious.

 

[Opana]

Fludd seems to affect momentum a bit more, I mean using it on a spin attacking LINk makes him rocket into the sky.This makes it much easier to caper them, and the cape seems a bit different too.

The cape seemed more effective the second time I used it too, so I'm curious what's going on there.

 

[!BSP]

It did the same thing in Brawl, but I agree about the pushing buff. I used it on Pikachu the other day mid-quick attack and he shot extremely high into the air.

 

[Opana]

It did the same thing in Brawl, but I agree about the pushing buff. I used it on Pikachu the other day mid-quick attack and he shot extremely high into the air.

Well, I'm sure this'll have some use at least, maybe in doubles. Thanks for the input though, I appreciate it.

 

[Opana]

It's possible to air dodge slide off then use fludd while still being able to recover.

 

[BSP]

I've gotten to play around with fludd against the demo characters. It destroys villager and Link, and is quite a pain as Mario or Pikachu. It's not the best against MM, but it still makes him lose horizontal distance with his up B.

It was so bad vs villager that my buddy started saying " I wonder how you're going to punish me this time."

I could easily force him to miss the ledge unless he went super low. Once he was helpless, he couldn't risk trying to mix me up because I kept FLUDDing him past the ledge. He just starting falling straight to me. Free punish and reset.

 

[mega5657]

Ugh I had no idea fludd was angleable. I've been holding in the down direction when I use it, angling it sharply down and barely getting any range. Now I can actually use it o_o