Floaties need a counter-pick stage.

[onionchowder]

On the topic of Battlefield and Dreamland -- Battlefield's top platform is actually higher than Dreamland's. I hate that stage as Doc.

 

[The Star King]

In fact, BF is also too non-neutral.

No stages. Just have theory smash battles. I'll Yoshi DJC counter anything your frame perfect Fortresses can throw at me.

All those people who theorycraft in the tier list thread but aren't actually good at the game will finally accomplish something!

 

[the_CAM_factor]

more stages, please stop taking them away. i like fun

 

[Divinokage]

I will defend the last remaining stages with my life!

Floaties need a CP huh? How about you L2 play your character better than you wouldn't complain nearly as much as to which stage you are playing on. If you can't learn how to use the stage to your advantage then that's your own shortcoming as a player. You should be able to have a good chance vs anyone on any stage to beat someone no matter the stage. If you really don't like a stage then ban it!! Simple as that.

 

[Purpletuce]

You can't always ban it, what about best of 5 sets?

Current stagelist is bad IMO.

 

[Bones0]

I'm all for more stages, talking some 11 stage list. . . maybe even some shorter matches more stages (I think Bones0 had this idea?)

Actually. . . let us also adopt Swiss -> bracket, per Bones0's recommendation. . .

All T.O.s are now Bones0.

Bones0 for president.

The stage list right now is fine. PS is borderline because of transformations (NOT because it's bad for floaties), but all 5 of the neutrals are extremely fair and balanced enough that no one should be complaining even if there are no bans. If you can't win on a stage, it's not because of the matchup. Shorter matches are dumb. The match length we have now is great. What we need are universal bo5 sets. The fact that newbies get **** seeds and go 0-4 for the day is pretty awful. Especially since playing bo5 adds almost nothing to the tournament being run. I've actually made gentleman agreements with multiple people in my pool and multiple bracket matches to play bo5 instead of bo3, and the TOs never notice because the real time consumption of pools comes from getting everyone where they need to be. As far as Swiss, I'm no expert on all of the technicalities of how it works, but anyone who reads about it to get the general idea should realize pretty quickly it's way better than pools. The pools we have no are just dumb because it's so predetermined. The seedings used in pools rarely change after the pool has been played, so all you've done is waste time to reproduce your seeds. If you have a method where players face equally or at least more-equally matched players, suddenly you get some relevant results to base seeds off of.

 

[ShroudedOne]

After some thought, I think Stadium should stay in. That's literally Peach's ONLY bad stage. Wtf, why are we so whiny.

She is REALLY GOOD on every other stage.

And the elements of the stage itself aren't as drastic as I thought. So there. I'm defending PS. Shoot me now.

 

[Kal]

Wtf, why are we so whiny.

****ing this, man. Except extend this to the QQ about almost every stage and the nonsense arguments people make so that they can have their way. And also that people never do it for something that would actually be ****ing awesome, like getting rid of Falco.

 

[Xyzz]

Do not remove my favourite punching bag please

 

[EPsilon933]

Wtf, why are we so whiny.

Mind if I quote this too?

The stage list right now is fine. PS is borderline because of transformations (NOT because it's bad for floaties), but all 5 of the neutrals are extremely fair and balanced enough that no one should be complaining even if there are no bans. If you can't win on a stage, it's not because of the matchup.

and this

As far as Swiss, I'm no expert on all of the technicalities of how it works, but anyone who reads about it to get the general idea should realize pretty quickly it's way better than pools. The pools we have no are just dumb because it's so predetermined. The seedings used in pools rarely change after the pool has been played, so all you've done is waste time to reproduce your seeds

Swiss is so legit. Everyone plays lots of tournament games. So fun

 

[Purpletuce]

The stage list right now is super balanced except for PS if you ask me, and I've never considered it a huge difference, and I haven't really seen a case where the better player lost the match (let alone the set) due to the stage. However, with the 5 that we use being so balanced, I think PS is the one I like least, just because there are so many silly things about it, if we're going to play on that stage, why not also include other fun, but less concrete stages, such as Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Mute City, Kongo, etc.?

I also like the idea of having a secondary stagelist that has more diverse stages for more laid back players, and either player could opt toward the more restrictive current MBR stagelist (or a 5 stagelist).

Just my 2 cents. . .

Although I'm relatively green, and my opinions may change as I mature, so to speak, in smash.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't think I will ever comprehend pools and swiss and all that nonsense.

 

[EPsilon933]

Swiss

I don't think I will ever comprehend pools and swiss and all that nonsense.

Imagine a single elimination bracket

At the top is everyone all in 1 group and each person fights 1 other person

Winners of their games go to 1 side of the bracket and losers go to the other

Keep repeating that until everyone's in a group of their own

The look at scores and see who wins


I think I explained that right?

 

[Kal]

I'm not a fan of swiss alone because the drama and tension of grand finals are lost, but I think swiss should replace pools.

 

[Purpletuce]

I bet if you did swiss alone and watched the matches, you could make a grandfinals, but I'm a fan of swiss -> double elimination

 

[Kimimaru]

What we need are universal bo5 sets. The fact that newbies get **** seeds and go 0-4 for the day is pretty awful. Especially since playing bo5 adds almost nothing to the tournament being run. I've actually made gentleman agreements with multiple people in my pool and multiple bracket matches to play bo5 instead of bo3, and the TOs never notice because the real time consumption of pools comes from getting everyone where they need to be. As far as Swiss, I'm no expert on all of the technicalities of how it works, but anyone who reads about it to get the general idea should realize pretty quickly it's way better than pools. The pools we have no are just dumb because it's so predetermined. The seedings used in pools rarely change after the pool has been played, so all you've done is waste time to reproduce your seeds. If you have a method where players face equally or at least more-equally matched players, suddenly you get some relevant results to base seeds off of.

I can't agree more with this. Best of 5 sets also allow a player to recuperate from a bad first game much easier than a best of 3.

 

[EPsilon933]

I'm not a fan of swiss alone because the drama and tension of grand finals are lost, but I think swiss should replace pools.

What would you think about like a swiss to double elimination bracket hybrid? Oh, I didn't read your entire post

 

[Kal]

What would you think about like a swiss to double elimination bracket hybrid? Oh, I didn't read your entire post

That's what I meant. We only use pools to seed a bracket, and I think replacing pools with swiss for the same thing would be better.

 

[KishPrime]

People try to argue that they're not jank as can be, yet I've never heard of even two people who play together that keep Mute City or RC on random. It just doesn't happen from what I can tell.

Just wanted to say that we do...but you probably would've guessed that. Man, I love this game.

But I don't really like this thread otherwise, so I won't be participating.

 

[ORLY]

i only came in here because kishprime was the last poster

and i knew it was about RC / Mute / Brinstar being awesome

i'm voting for the kishes in the upcoming presidential election

 

[KishPrime]

<3 ORLY

Scarduzio forever.

Also you left out MK2/Japes/GG/Floats/more.

 

[Master WGS]

Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats. Poké Floats.

 

[Bones0]

I also like the idea of having a secondary stagelist that has more diverse stages for more laid back players, and either player could opt toward the more restrictive current MBR stagelist (or a 5 stagelist).

I'd be fine with that. It just sounds like a default gentleman's agreement built into the rule set.

Just wanted to say that we do...but you probably would've guessed that. Man, I love this game.

But I don't really like this thread otherwise, so I won't be participating.

I can't hold it against you since you're probably just senile. How you managed to run a spectacular tournament that reinvented the way we look at RR top 8 is beyond me.

 

[KishPrime]

I can't hold it against you since you're probably just senile. How you managed to run a spectacular tournament that reinvented the way we look at RR top 8 is beyond me.

People have long confused brilliance with eccentricity.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Kinda related to the thread since its about stages. Is there a legit reason why we dont use great bay? The only things I could think of is the bottom of the platform havin a big bounce and potential camping, which camping like that can already be done by floaties/projectile campers at need on any stage they want. ON that train of thought though, we already have rules against obvious stalling tactics like that and it could simply be amended for that crap if need be.

Other than what I said, I just dont see a legit reason why this stage is banned unless I'm missin somethin big. i'd love to be proven wrong, just throwin the idea out there.

 

[Bones0]

You can circle camp ridiculously easily. Fox specifically can just side-B under the stage if they go above, or run over top if they go under, which is hard enough for some characters. Also, the turtle is random and has no ledges.

 

[rawrimamonster]

You can circle camp ridiculously easily. Fox specifically can just side-B under the stage if they go above, or run over top if they go under, which is hard enough for some characters. Also, the turtle is random and has no ledges.

Somehow I knew you'd be the one to respond lol.

Turtle is a given but we've dealt with stage changes in PS and moving stages like rainbow cruise for reasons I have no IDEA WHY (that stage is just horribad). Stalling tactics like fox's circlejerk camping can easily be included into stalling rules. Other than that theres no horribad reason (like RC) for this stage to stay banned. I mean really, spacies despite their speed and camping can easily be taken advantage of due to the small ledges being near the edges. Somewhere where most of the time they dont wanna be. The campability of turtle which im sure will be mentioned will be no different than the fire stage change on PS, ppl just camp it out till the thing changes. Then they face the need to get back which can be abused. Patience is key.

I mean if we can deal with crap like zebes and its acid and bad ledges, for a time mute city, and other crap...well yknow where i'm goin with this. Great bay is a lot less crappy by comparison. Only reason I see ppl hating it is they're makin my avatar's face and saying "NO I hate change! >=(!"

Pluses:

-No damaging stage hazards, only "hazard" is turtle which gives a obv warning and stays up for a set amount of time.
-potentially good stage for floaties (related to topic)
-most of the stage is unchanging meaning more time for players to think rather than needing to adapt to changes aside what is obviously to the side of the level, a giant turtle thats hard to miss.
-opens up another stage for play

negatives:

-underside of the main platform has explosive knockback
-camping/planking can be a problem, can devolve into stalling (which can be taken care of by TO's)

 

[Bones0]

How do you determine if Fox is stalling or just getting out of a bad situation? The only stalling rules we have are no rising pound, no Peach bombing walls, and no repetitive BF wall-jumping. Even those have some very iffy determinations. For instance, the infamous match where Hbox beat Armada by 1% on DL. At the end Hbox jumps up into the corner and does a single rising pound, but what if he had jumped out earlier and done 2 or 3 or 5 or 10? How many times can you rising pound before it's considered stalling? You can complain about someone rising pound over and over, but ultimately they could just say they were taking their time recovering because you were on the ledge covering their options. These bans are really soft bans more than anything. I don't think I've ever heard of any of them EVER being enforced. It's just too subjective and hard to deal with. I could pause during a match vs. any Jiggs player as he pounds back towards the stage and call the TO over to DQ him for stalling. There's no way the TO can make a call unless he was watching, and even if for some reason he was, it goes back to the points above about there being a gray area.

Even if we could create a rule that objectively banned circle camping on TB, the rest of the map is still horrible. The fact that we've put up with worse stages for longer is pretty meaningless since it's largely accepted that those stages are no longer legal. Jungle Japes was by far the closest to neutral of every other stage (except maybe Green Greens and the other non-64 Kongo Jungle), but it was banned way before all the other cps. The tournaments that allow ANY cps outside of the 5 neutrals and PS/KJ ALWAYS give at least one ban so players will never have to deal with this stuff anyway. All it does is force bad characters to waste their ban on a stage that becomes unplayable if a faster character wants it to be.

Most importantly, it DOES have a stage hazard that damages players. ;D

 

[Scidadle]

Uh... oops >.<

 

[Scidadle]

but it does exactly what a CP should do.

... /thread

CPs aren't supposed to give you an advantage. That's why you were counter-picked to the stage.

flat zone son

Lmao.

I like KG64. I just wish you couldnt go through the bottom of the stage. Then I would be all for making it a CP stage.


I really think Brinstar Depths is a really balanced and fair stage.

PS can be really gay sometimes. Mainly the transformations. But I feel like most of the time if PS ****s you up it wasn't actually PS ****ing you up, it was you ****ing up.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

I think PS is completely fine as a CP. You get ample warning before it transforms, you know what it will transform into, and if you don't like the transformation it's really easy to just wait it out. The transformations aren't even THAT bad. Imagine if PS2 was in melee. That would be awful.

 

[ShroudedOne]

For the life of me, I do NOT understand why Brawl players defend Stadium 2. That is an inherently TERIBLE stage. At least our Stadium doesn't have transformations that change the freaking gravity...

 

[Deleted member]

For the life of me, I do NOT understand Brawl players.

you set yourself up for that one lol

why is this still a thread?

 

[Cactuar]

General discussion is funny.

 

[Mahie]

For the life of me, I do NOT understand why Brawl players defend Stadium 2. That is an inherently TERIBLE stage. At least our Stadium doesn't have transformations that change the freaking gravity...

On another note, P:M's Pokémon Stadium 2 is perfect. Same lay out as PS1 but no transformations.