First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

So, you gonna update this list now that Marth had a significant buff, among many of the other FE characters that apparently have low rankings here?

 

So, you gonna update this list now that Marth had a significant buff, among many of the other FE characters that apparently have low rankings here?

We're probably going to see another two months minimum until the next tier list. Most likely more.

 

Where do I even begin with this?
Okay, I'm not a hardcore competitive Smash player and I don't know how to make a good tier list in general, but this just doesn't look right.
We should have waited after the 1.1.4 patch and DLC characters were released and then it'll probably be better than this.
Also why use all these letters on this tier? This list just makes the Japanese tier list look 100x better.

 

We're probably going to see another two months minimum until the next tier list. Most likely more.

Why would they make one two days before an update that literally buffed a majority of the characters? It made it obsolete as soon as it came out ಠ_ಠ

 

Why would they make one two days before an update that literally buffed a majority of the characters? It made it obsolete as soon as it came out ಠ_ಠ

It's not really obsolete. Marth's going to rise significantly, Roy's not going to budge because people still aren't playing him, Ike's going to move maybe one spot, and Bayo and especially Corrin aren't invalidating anybody relevant. That's it really.

 

Princess Zelda, Forever Alone....

And Bottom Tier.

Play SSF2. The one game where Zelda is good.

 

We should have waited after the 1.1.4 patch and DLC characters were released and then it'll probably be better than this.

Why would they make one two days before an update that literally buffed a majority of the characters? It made it obsolete as soon as it came out ಠ_ಠ

They had been working on this since December, before they knew when the 1.1.4 patch would come out. Might as well release what they had, even though it will change. It was just unfortunate timing.

 

Just my opinion. EDIT: Misread bashing.

Yoshi has no results whatsoever compared to everyone in mid tier. If he was top 15 good, he should be in every top 32/15 of every tournament ever. And he is not.

Wii Fit Trainer on the other hand has more results than Yoshi and she is actually good, has proof that she is good.

MK has a killer combo, good edgeguarding and dominates in most regions.

Pikachu only has 2 inconsistent players and Pikachu's struggle to kill and no high % combos at top level really shows.

Killager has Ranai. If he consistently was No.1 with Killager with all the top tier play Killager exploited at his max must be A tier, because the other Killager players are not exploiting killager correctly.

Ike is worse than the Pit Bros and Peach but he has better results than the other mid tiers so he is there.

Roy has no players, no results at all, he has horrid stats that make him combo food at any %, he gets gimped really easy, he can't approach, an he ironically can't kill. He has no ensured way he will kill you of something that is not a read or poor DI. Totally garbage tier.

DHD has japanese rep and they do well but doesn't change DHD s low tier. Dr. Mario is a good counterpick character.

Mii Brawler has no range, no kill moves that are reliable, no kill setups, past 60% he has no combos, his recovery is just as bad as Cloud's, terrible matchups across the board. Totally the worst character in the game.

I agree about Yoshi being horribly overrated. I don't recall much placements from WFT though. IIRC they're about the same overall (correct me if I'm wrong).

MK does have strong results, but the only person who really wins with him is Leo. Tyrant barely missed Top 8 at Genesis and Abadango flopped hard at the same tourney. And I'm assuming Leo doesn't have the guts to leave Mexico and prove he can fare well internationally.

(Just because he does well in Mexican nationals doesn't mean he will do well in other countries. An example from Melee: Kounotori did really well in Japanese Melee tournaments, but he couldn't perform well outside of Japan at all.)

Pikachu has one consistent player, and that is ESAM. Although I do agree he should be lower; this is Brawl Pikachu placement debates all over again.

Ranai is the only internationally dominant Villager, though Ryuk and MJG do come close.

Like I said in an earlier post, the only results Roy had was ZeRo winning ONE tournament with him, but he used primarily Diddy anyway. Agree on that one.

Doc does have a reasonable niche, but Nairo used him on ESAM like Armada used Young Link on Hungrybox in Melee.

And Mii Brawler... Hey, Dapuffster, where the hell did you go?

 

Well, since everyone and their grandma is posting their opinions on the tier list, I might as well join in:
's too low, as I feel his projectiles can outcamp a good chunk of the roster.
's too high. Sure, he has good tools like Limits and Blade Beam, but his grabs and recovery are both garbage, and his combos aren't great (not terrible, but not quite up to snuff with the other high tiers).
's a little too high. He has good projectiles, but he has the hardest time closing stocks without getting in your face.
's way too low. He's still incredibly sluggish, without a doubt, but his absurd damage output combined with his useful up-air and good shield-breaking ability still makes him a threat in neutral.
's a bit too low, as he still has the mobility to catch up with most of the high tiers, even if his combos and damage potential aren't that great.
feels too low to me, but that's only because I've gotten good enough at landing tippers and especially landing counter punishes and edgeguards that I get better results than I probably should. 's fine where she's at relative to Marth, but if Marth were to move up or down, I imagine Lucina would follow suit.
's too low. Much less lag on his attacks in patches plus decent edgeguard and approach games - not to mention Ryo's results with him.

Other than that, a good start without a doubt, even if it does feel more like a 1.0.6 list with the addition of the new DLC characters.
That's my 2 cents. Coming from someone at the lower middle end of the skill line, take my opinions with a grain of NaCl (or KBr for the particularly toxic )

Cloud's situation is like Roy's situation a month back. He hasn't been thrown off the hype train yet.

 

I agree about Yoshi being horribly overrated. I don't recall much placements from WFT though. IIRC they're about the same overall (correct me if I'm wrong).

MK does have strong results, but the only person who really wins with him is Leo. Tyrant barely missed Top 8 at Genesis and Abadango flopped hard at the same tourney. And I'm assuming Leo doesn't have the guts to leave Mexico and prove he can fare well internationally.

(Just because he does well in Mexican nationals doesn't mean he will do well in other countries. An example from Melee: Kounotori did really well in Japanese Melee tournaments, but he couldn't perform well outside of Japan at all.)

Pikachu has one consistent player, and that is ESAM. Although I do agree he should be lower; this is Brawl Pikachu placement debates all over again.

Ranai is the only internationally dominant Villager, though Ryuk and MJG do come close.

Like I said in an earlier post, the only results Roy had was ZeRo winning ONE tournament with him, but he used primarily Diddy anyway. Agree on that one.

Doc does have a reasonable niche, but Nairo used him on ESAM like Armada used Young Link on Hungrybox in Melee.

And Mii Brawler... Hey, Dapuffster, where the hell did you go?

Leo got problems with his VISA, and he had the guts to challenge ZeRo. Hopefully when it happens, it won't end up like Chillin VS Leffen. Dapuffster quit because people wouldn't let him play Mii Brawler.

 

They had been working on this since December, before they knew when the 1.1.4 patch would come out. Might as well release what they had, even though it will change. It was just unfortunate timing.

I mean, if they had been working on this since December, and the Cloud update obviously changed the characters again (alongside Bayonetta and Kamui both being announced in December), they should have figured the final patch would change characters again. They quite obviously started after Cloud came out, but why release a tier list when they were well aware that one more patch was coming? That is why I see this unexpected list as irrelevant. They DID know a patch was coming, and they should have assumed it would bring forth character changes.

 

on the release day of v1.1.3, they announced that 1.1.4 would add the last DLC characters and balance patches. besides, this tier list was only relevant for one day, as it was released a day before 1.1.4. why did they spend time working on a tier list for a version that they knew wasn't the final version?

 

Yoshi is probably higher then that. Villager is better then Ryu TBH and Cloud should be higher then Sheik because he has a sword Kappa. All Sword people are top top tier right? no?

*sits down in shame*

 

Update:
A: Bayonetta
B: Corrin

 

Update:
A: Bayonetta
B: Corrin

What in particular puts this week old characters on those positions?

 

And Mii Brawler... Hey, Dapuffster, where the hell did you go?

1111 Mii Brawler is not the same character as 2122 Mii Brawler. I main the latter and tournaments will not let me use it. Just FYI.

 

More and more regions use the free mii rule. I think it will be the standard at some point (how it should be)

 

What in particular puts this week old characters on those positions?

I saw Event Hubs.

 

I saw Event Hubs.

That site is not reliable.....

 

That site is not reliable.....

So true. I remember when I looked at that place for tiers. I was a huge idiot...

 

Leo got problems with his VISA, and he had the guts to challenge ZeRo. Hopefully when it happens, it won't end up like Chillin VS Leffen. Dapuffster quit because people wouldn't let him play Mii Brawler.

Thanks for the info. I guess Leo is the Leffen of Smash 4 now

1111 Mii Brawler is not the same character as 2122 Mii Brawler. I main the latter and tournaments will not let me use it. Just FYI.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot you used customs. I only ever saw one video of your Mii and it had the 2122 set. Everyone knows 1111 to be terrible anyway for all three Miis

 

****ING J TIER

 

Now that Corrin and Bayonetta have been released is there at least plans to revise the tier listing?

 

To everyone complaining about when this tier list came out, it's answered here: http://smashboards.com/posts/20820648

It also explains why the list goes to J. (Spoiler: it's "aesthetics and shouldn't be read too far into")

But if it bothers people so much, here I made this:

(See, it's not any different...)

 

I personally don't think Zelda is the Worst Character. She actually has good combos and kill power with sweetspots, but her frame data is terrible. I would put her in 3rd worst, above Ganon and Jigglypuff. J

 

I won't repeat myself forever, but, does it really matters if Zelda is the worst, 2nd worst, or 5th worse? She is garbage, and all the characters in her tier are garbage too, the order is irrelevant.

 

Wow, Corrin and Bayonetta are so bad they're not even on the list. Heck, they're not even released yet! That just shows how trash they are.

Put em in da trash mate

 

I won't repeat myself forever, but, does it really matters if Zelda is the worst, 2nd worst, or 5th worse? She is garbage, and all the characters in her tier are garbage too, the order is irrelevant.

Thing is though, if we choose not to fairly evaluate lower-tiered characters or place them accurately, we invalidate the whole point of a tier list. You might as well have "Good Tier" "Not As Good Tier" and "Bad Tier" and not rank any characters except good tier and the first quarter of not as good tier at that point. A tier list is a tool created so that people can have a common understanding of where characters stand in relation to each other. If your not going to place Zelda where she belongs, why bother placing anyone else where they belong?

 

I expected this place to be more salty

 

With so many characters and so few people playing most of them, I imagine that the lower half of mid-tier and all of the lower tiers will eventually become pretty arbitrary. Nonetheless, curious to see how this develops over the next year or so.

 

Roy is certainly not C-Tier. Definitely belongs in B+, especially after 1.1.4. Would have made more sense in B+ in 1.1.3 too. Top Smash players like Zero have said Roy fits in high tier, so it makes absolutely no sense to put him in low tier.

 

Roy is certainly not C-Tier. Definitely belongs in B+, especially after 1.1.4. Would have made more sense in B+ in 1.1.3 too. Top Smash players like Zero have said Roy fits in high tier, so it makes absolutely no sense to put him in low tier.

Zero also changes his mind at a drop of a hat, ex Bayonetta "top 15-20" *day later* "might be the best" he is not always reliable nor does he play Roy. Also Roy has no results to speak of.

 

Roy is certainly not C-Tier. Definitely belongs in B+, especially after 1.1.4. Would have made more sense in B+ in 1.1.3 too. Top Smash players like Zero have said Roy fits in high tier, so it makes absolutely no sense to put him in low tier.

And ZeRo later made a video saying that he massively overhyped Roy... Nobody believes that Roy's a high tier anymore. Basically a meme at this point.

 

And ZeRo later made a video saying that he massively overhyped Roy... Nobody believes that Roy's a high tier anymore. Basically a meme at this point.

Memes are top tier! Though I'd say he's high or mid tier, certainly not low though.

 

Though I'd say he's high or mid tier, certainly not low though.

...Uh, why? Only thing he has going for him is raw damage per hit. Many characters above him do more damage with true combos and have real advantages besides that like easy kill confirms anyway. I'd sooner put him in bottom tier then mid.

 

...Uh, why? Only thing he has going for him is raw damage per hit. Many characters above him do more damage with true combos and have real advantages besides that like easy kill confirms anyway. I'd sooner put him in bottom tier then mid.

He has great knockback, a good combo game, and nice damage. Also, Flare Blade is great for edgeguarding. Then again, why am I discussing tiers? Tiers are for nerds! Any character can win given the right player.

 

He has great knockback, a good combo game, and nice damage. Also, Flare Blade is great for edgeguarding. Then again, why am I discussing tiers? Tiers are for nerds! Any character can win given the right player.

It's nice to see that, for all the differences between Melee and Smash 4, a skilled Roy can still beat any Fox.

 

He has great knockback, a good combo game, and nice damage. Also, Flare Blade is great for edgeguarding. Then again, why am I discussing tiers? Tiers are for nerds! Any character can win given the right player.

Knockback isn't so great outside of point blank hits. Fsmash for example won't kill until 170% in a good position unless you get the sweetspot. Doesn't have any way to kill outside of getting a sweetspot as far as I can tell.

Last I heard Flare Blade didn't do squat for edgeguarding because there's no hitbox on the sword. Can't barely go offstage because of his recovery.

Combo game is above average... And he gets combo'd waaaay above average.

You came here to argue about Roy's position on the tier list, so it's pretty clear you care. Any character can win with the right player, but can also lose with the right player too. Due to his position I don't see Roy getting the right player any time soon...

 

It's not really obsolete. Marth's going to rise significantly, Roy's not going to budge because people still aren't playing him, Ike's going to move maybe one spot, and Bayo and especially Corrin aren't invalidating anybody relevant. That's it really.

Bayo beats Cloud with a giant iron hammer. As more Bayo's appear, some matchups might make certain characters less relevant. I still think cloud is a reaally outstanding character, but matchups mean a lot, as prevalent with characters like Ness.

 

Knockback isn't so great outside of point blank hits. Fsmash for example won't kill until 170% in a good position unless you get the sweetspot. Doesn't have any way to kill outside of getting a sweetspot as far as I can tell.

Last I heard Flare Blade didn't do squat for edgeguarding because there's no hitbox on the sword. Can't barely go offstage because of his recovery.

Combo game is above average... And he gets combo'd waaaay above average.

You came here to argue about Roy's position on the tier list, so it's pretty clear you care. Any character can win with the right player, but can also lose with the right player too. Due to his position I don't see Roy getting the right player any time soon...

Well, I may have come here to spread a little salt too. It's far too easy to mess with tier list lovers. Me, I don't believe in tier lists. They're pointless. A character is like a tool, and while most tools are different from one another, anyone can do equally well with the right tool.