First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

Well, I may have come here to spread a little salt too. It's far too easy to mess with tier list lovers. Me, I don't believe in tier lists. They're pointless. A character is like a tool, and while most tools are different from one another, anyone can do equally well with the right tool.

Actually no, not all of the tools available are as good as each other. If we get into a fight and you pull out a knife and I pull out a gun my tool is much better than yours. In the same way, if it's a game of Smash and I pick Shiek and my opponent picks Ganondorf, I am inherently at an advantage because my tool is better.

A tier list is made in order to quantifiably rank the tools available in a game, taking into account their strengths, weaknesses, and particularities, in order to serve as a common base of knowledge. Not "believing" in tier lists is basically saying that every character is just as good as the rest, and I'll listen to that argument when Zelda, Ganon, and Jiggs become national threats.

 

Actually no, not all of the tools available are as good as each other. If we get into a fight and you pull out a knife and I pull out a gun my tool is much better than yours. In the same way, if it's a game of Smash and I pick Shiek and my opponent picks Ganondorf, I am inherently at an advantage because my tool is better.

A tier list is made in order to quantifiably rank the tools available in a game, taking into account their strengths, weaknesses, and particularities, in order to serve as a common base of knowledge. Not "believing" in tier lists is basically saying that every character is just as good as the rest, and I'll listen to that argument when Zelda, Ganon, and Jiggs become national threats.

Guy holding the gun has poor accuracy, guy holding the knife has excellent accuracy and nails him in the neck in one throw. By tool, he meant the player, not the weapon.

 

Kirby is not low tier. There is absolutely no way at all.

 

Guy holding the gun has poor accuracy, guy holding the knife has excellent accuracy and nails him in the neck in one throw. By tool, he meant the player, not the weapon.

Well, I may have come here to spread a little salt too. It's far too easy to mess with tier list lovers. Me, I don't believe in tier lists. They're pointless. A character is like a tool, and while most tools are different from one another, anyone can do equally well with the right tool.

I'm pretty sure he meant character. While yes, a skilled user can win with a weaker tool, it doesn't change the fact that his tool is weaker.

 

The list will be updated, so no need to be worried about Corrin and Bayonetta's placement.

 

>marth g tier
>can PAL ken combo
gg no re

 

Top tier is all women; Super Smash Sisters confirmed.

Sheik is a guy lmao

 

Sheik is a guy lmao

I pray that is sarcasm.

 

Sheik is a guy lmao

Should we tell him people?

you haven't played zelda oot all the way through have you? or did you forget that zelda disguises herself as shiek. Zelda is not "secretly a transgender and shiek is her way of coming out". In the context of the game, it was a disguise purely out of necessity to fool ganon and his troops. So trying to use some argument that shiek is a transgender won't work, because someone who's transgender usually isn't hiding and posing as the opposite of their biological sex to save their life, in fact its actually the other way around, often just like homosexuals they're hiding the fact that they're a transgender for fear of discrimination, so they try to keep up the image of what they're biological sex is, until they finally feel the courage to come out.

Likewise alll the smash games refer to shiek as female, so even if you try to cling to the argument that she's a male in oot bc she refers to herself as one(again, all in an effort to hide from ganon, as we all saw what happened immediately after she blew her cover in the temple of time) in the context of smash, she's 100% verified to be female, not only did brawl give her far more femine features, she's also referred to directly as a she.

And seeing as this is a smash bros tier list/topic, and not about oot, it's safe to say that without question, shiek is a female here.

 

It makes me sad how low DDD is, even though it's true

I also don't agree with Wario being over characters like Greninja, Ike, Toon Link and Olimar.

 

Kirby is not low tier. There is absolutely no way at all.

I wouldn't really think so either, but part of it may have to do with him not being able to approach.

 

I wouldn't really think so either, but part of it may have to do with him not being able to approach.

His up special is pretty pressuring at times.

 

The fact that I still see people referring to this list like it means anything makes me laugh...

 

ok...

my only problems are that roy is way too low and cloud is a little high. Cloud certainly is good, but so is roy...

 

ok...

my only problems are that roy is way too low and cloud is a little high. Cloud certainly is good, but so is roy...

Cloud is really good, though. Whenever I play him, my friends get scared cause I am the best among my group and I utilize every strength he has. I am not gonna lie, when I play a good Cloud, I get scared, too. I feel like he has too many options when in the hands of a player beyond tournament level.

 

I agree with zero. It's too early for a tier list, especially when we don't have all the characters

not really, actually having an early tier list is cool to see how the meta evolved
especially seing diddy downgrade and rosalina go up

 

ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING LIKE THEY KNOW **** ABOUT COMPETITIVE SMASH LMAO

people that dont even know what a Meta Game is

 

Ok, I know Kirby has a terrible neutral, but it's really his only big flaw besides his weight. What's more, his neutral issue can be SIGNIFICANTLY helped by copying a decent neutral-B projectile, and fortunately, many high-tier characters like ,, and have excellent moves for Kirby. He's mid-tier at worst.

Also RIP in top 5...

 

Can someone please tell me why Marth is so low but Roy is higher please I'm kinda confused here they're acting like Marth is still bad no man not counting the corrin and bayo patch he still had buffs all up him ass he's not low he should be a high mid tier D tier maybe

 

I can't wait to see how the end of summer tier list is going to look. I'm betting a lot will change on it and it'll be fun comparing.
But for now it's just nice having a base to work off of (solid or not).

 

Cloud is really good, though. Whenever I play him, my friends get scared cause I am the best among my group and I utilize every strength he has. I am not gonna lie, when I play a good Cloud, I get scared, too. I feel like he has too many options when in the hands of a player beyond tournament level.

Like I said, he is good, but Roy is really good as well. Cloud suffers in recovery, and his combos aren't very long. Roy has average recovery, many combos, both Cloud and Roy have extreme power, but they both get comboed easily.

I think Corrin is the best swordsman though, he has more range than both, better recovery than both, many combos, killpower (Uair and counter omg), and doesn't fall as fast, so she doesn't get comboed as easily. I use female Corrin so I refer to her as "she."

 

I think jigglypuff and zelda should be switched

 

Why in god's name is Lucas in low tier

 

It's a hard life as a Ganon main...

 

This list is 2 patchs in the past and dons't have Bayonetta and Corrin. We need a new one!

 

>Sheik gets nerfed
>Zelda gets buffed
>Zelda becomes S Tier
>Sheik becomes J Tier

 

Hey its cool. Keep putting Toon Link lower than he is. Makes it worse when people lose to him that way.

I'm posting late, but I don't like to follow my main-bias. TL seems fairly placed.

 

>Sheik gets nerfed
>Zelda gets buffed
>Zelda becomes S Tier
>Sheik becomes J Tier

?

 

>places Lucas bellow G&W
>Motherboy has footstool combos on him and half the cast

Lol ok.

Lucas is too good so the people had to put him low on the tier list so that nobody would play him.

 

Can someone please tell me why Marth is so low but Roy is higher please I'm kinda confused here they're acting like Marth is still bad no man not counting the corrin and bayo patch he still had buffs all up him *** he's not low he should be a high mid tier D tier maybe

Roy's reverse tipper allows him a more aggressive playstyle, and he isn't so heavily dependent on staying at one range that he can focus on racking damage more easily.

 

So when do you guys plan on updating this? It was out of date within a week.

 

wheres bayonetta

 

wheres bayonetta

This Tier List was made for patch 1.1.3, which was before Bayonetta and Corrin were released, that's why they aren't there.

 

oh k

 

I feel that Mewtwo should go much higher and that Wii fit Trainer should be last place

 

I feel that Mewtwo should go much higher and that Wii fit Trainer should be last place

WFT's not that bad. But Mewtwo, with his new buffs from 1.1.5 (two patches after this tier list), as well as Abadango winning Pound, needs to go higher for sure.

 

Roy's reverse tipper allows him a more aggressive playstyle, and he isn't so heavily dependent on staying at one range that he can focus on racking damage more easily.

Not really, no. There's no advantage to having the more powerful hitboxes up close, and they failed at balancing Roy around the reversed hitboxes too.

 

Not really, no. There's no advantage to having the more powerful hitboxes up close, and they failed at balancing Roy around the reversed hitboxes too.

So does the tier list just have them completely wrong then?

 

So does the tier list just have them completely wrong then?

Not entirely... Marth was still terrible at the time, so it's not like Roy being above Marth was insane. Roy was put way too high though, and outside of him getting any buffs he and Marth are probably going to switch places next tier list.

 

There are a couple characters that are too low... Like Kirby, Mewtwo, Ganondorf, and Marth.....