Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

[#HBC | Nabe]

^^^ Make a case. Who do you look at on CDubs flips?

 

[Luxor]

Cdubs is unreadable, unknowable, untraceable, unlikeable, unhateable, unsafe, unkillable. Getting stuff out of him is one of my priorities toMorrow.

 

[Rajam]

Continuing on Red Ryu:

350:

@Red Ryu: Nothing you pulled up showed or explained how I rode Zen's claims, which is what I asked you for

X1's response to Ryu's #346. I think it does show (346) a certain degree of X1 riding on Zen's case; I still don't know if it was a legit different focus on Gord or just a disguise to jump on Zen's case (since "making lists" doesn't seem like a strong case to sustain by his own, and I'm not sure about all this gambit thing)

Anyways, X1's response isn't good since he only discredits Ryu's case without actually analyzing one-by-one Ryu's points

357:

The second has you explaining little to nothing and ridingon Zen's vote for Gordy claim. Then again ypu tend to explain very little as is and just vote people.

I share this feeling about X1. He just responds in arrogant ways which don't help town

373:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12001060&postcount=77

Why are you asking him if it's dangerous? Afraid to take a stance on meta reads and how qualified they might be at this stage in the game? This is such an empty question that really serves no purpose other than to lead another player's direction of discussion, question his reads, and ultimately not take any stance and just appear to be contributing. Probably the scummiest post in the game up to this point.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12001196&postcount=84

Will you take a freaking stance on meta reads already? First you say "oh he's the scummiest based on what you've brought up", but then in the very same sentence say that using meta can be dangerous unless you're "absolutely sure of his intentions" (implying this is like, ever reliably the case). But wait, Zen's case is in large part meta. How the hell can you think his case makes Gordito clearly the scummiest player, when you JUST SAID that you think the methods he used are dangerous? Do you think Gord is actually scummy, or are you just trying to suck up to aggroZen? Are we ever going to get a clear stance from you?

^^^ 1000x this. You still haven't said anything on Gord and we're already on #373

385:

I've never been off Gord, Just because my vote isn't on him currently doesn't mean I don't want him lynched. I can more done in a week than just tunnel someone. I don't move at the 5 post per week pace you do so more info comes/can come to light. Right now I'm im between glg and os (no homo). Either of them I would want lynched.

Zen's defense. (Ryu's reactions pending)

420:

@Red Ryu's #346: Nowhere in that is showing how I rode Zen's case, I wanted to vote for gordito yes, but at no point did I say "Zen is right! Vote Gord!" or anything of the sort.

421: This + #420 is a detailed defense from X1, though he goes more into OS. Anyways, at this point I've noted that Ryu has only been accusing Zen and X1, mostly for being on Gord's case (@Zen because of his meta and being ready to lynch Gord, and X1 because of jumping on Zen's case, which, independent of if it is true or not, it's kind of irrelevant by now). I think at this point it's safe to establish that:
X1 mafia -> Ryu town or indy
Zen mafia -> Ryu town or indy
Ryu mafia -> X1 and Zen town or indy
I'll also retract what I said on my #407 about Gord town -> Ryu scum, and change it into Gord scum -> Ryu scum, because, again, Ryu has defended and mostly avoided Gord and the whole accusations made on him all this time

461:

I'm not understanding X1, it seems like he is pulling a two face asking for a quote of him riding it, I pulled the quote and he seems to be ignoring it all together.

Only when he needs to defend himself does he actually start contributing a lot more. At this point my main problem is how he jumped on with Zen so fast with barely much to back himself up. I might agree with Zen and Gordy also a candidate for a lynch, but your behavior jumping on and then afterwards has been very poor. Try and get as many people are possible on the lynch as if the end the day as fast as possible. Not really contributing to town posting very little info to help with scum hunts.

Your not helping town at this point and seem to be looking for quick lynch's and staying inactive only popping up when it benefits you only.

Vote: X1-12

I may not like how Zen, OS, and Gordy have played, but you have really been looking the most scummy of the bunch.

The X1-Ryu clash is getting dumb now. Both of you are getting too stubborn on this. Also, this post smells like a huge bus on Gord; me and ff were asking you a lot time ago your take on Gord; you avoided us all this time and now you say Gord is a lynch candidate, without any further addition of why? Also if you think Gord is a lynch candidate, why voting X1 then? just because he isn't admitting he wagoned on Zen's case? It's also very likely both X1 and Gord can't be mafia, so why, if Gord is scummy, worth a lynch, would you vote X1? Your final accusations on OS and Gord came outta nowhere as well

466:

@Ryu
If X1 is scum, who are his scumbuddies?

I'd like to see a response to this if you're willing to vote X1 instead of Gord or Zen when you said they are worth lynching

---

Will finish this tomorrow, I've to leave now (V/LA until tomorrow night). At the time I have a weak scum read on Ryu, his dispute with X1 is honest and some responses/questions too, but they're mostly irrelevant so it doesn't matter. No idea what would be his stances on players like adumbrodeus, Nich, Nabe, Raziek, Vult, Cdubs, because they appear nowhere. I'd say he isn't connected to Zen, X1, and probably FF, Luxor and BeatStick. He has also avoided Glyph after the RVS chit chat. Bland content, lack of relevant scumhunt, kind of inactive, and blatantly avoiding Gord and several issues (you don't see him addressing much on these 450+ posts so far) are his most remarkable scummy acts.

 

[Rajam]

Not willing to lynch toDay:
X1
Zen
BeatStick
Luxor
FrozenFlame

Willing to lynch the most:
Vult
Glyph/Ran
Probably Gord/glg (Need a reread)
Red Ryu

Anyone else not in these lists if really convinced by my fellow townmates

@Zen: I still think Ran is a good play. I admit I've skimmed a little his last posts, but I read his 517 and 519 and mostly, if not all of the questions there, are just focused to provoke wishy washy/OMGUS/WIFOMing reactions.

@Ran: You said my accusations on Glyph were dumb at the end of your 519. Give details, since I haven't seen you addressing my case. I don't know how lack of scumhunt, addressing easy issues (which is the same as saying bland content) and unnatural town reactions are dumb. Also, stop asking questions just because, most of them don't help at all.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not concerned about your lack of post numbers, it's content. Notice how when I have a gap I usually post a monster addressing a number of people with a good number of stances, why couldn't you do that, or ask questions, or something? The limited posts are bad, but the fact that they're only devoted to pushing such safe cases makes it worse.

You definitely didn't start against Zen, you said safe non-committal things against Zen till I started against Zen, that doesn't count as "starting a case".

X1 too, you didn't say anything about X1 till after he revealed it was a gambit and started receiving heavy suspicion and votes.

Very well, I'll work on being more like that.

I did go after X1 but that was because I thought his claim was bull.

Honestly can you tell me that he can pass it off as a gambit? Look how he has been pasting after that point, he hasn't changed he's still acting the same.

I have stances on over half the game. Need to update that list a bit granted.

Here you go:

Zen leans scum
Luxar probably scum
Nabe is probably scum.
Red Ryu is probably scum
X1 leans town.
Nich is probably town.
OS is leaning slightly town (wanna reread him before I give a firm opinion).
Beatstick leans town.
Rajam leans dumbtown.
Razeik leans town
giraffelasergun is probably town, possibly indy.
Everyone else is null atm.

That said, nabe-scum makes x1 leaning scum.
Luxar-scum and Zen-scum together are unlikely.

Well this answered my previous question.

Why is Luxor scum? giraffelasergun is town? Nich is town? Can you explain these and why you think these are such?

Did I say you should toss random votes? Votes are not the only way to take stances and when you DID take stances it wasn't until there was support behind them. Why not just take stances, why not ask questions if you don't know about people?

Did I say you should toss random votes? Votes are not the only way to take stances and when you DID take stances it wasn't until there was support behind them. Why not just take stances, why not ask questions if you don't know about people?

Your implying that it is, before Zen's claim he was scum on my list, X1 is still scum to me, Nich is looking really scummy and the only reason I dropped X1 for the moment was the soft lovers claim Zen made on why he know X1 is 100% town, while I'm still not sure this has truth to it I do think it is worth checking out. Unlike Nicholas1024 whom I seem to have little to no doubt after his explosion.

so yeah, I'm scum hiding.

Catching up tonight

Are you gonna?

Oh,

Hey guys its done

[collapse=Catch-up]lol. Its not done, sorry guys I'll have to do to tomorrow or something. If you want some X1Wisdom then Nabe is town, as is Nich (probably). Ranmaru is DEFINITELY town. Red Ryu/Raz are not bad lynch choices [/collapse]

That wasn't very well done.

True.

Although you said "Since people want quotes" why couldn't you explain that then? Like "Sorry I was on my phone, I'll post quotes soon"

Really? Ah, I see. I agree. I have yet to see him answer my questions. He says it was a gambit, and I asked if his gambit did well and what results it garnered. No response yet. Although now he says he is V/La. We can't pressure him while he is away.

So who else do you think is Scum, Red Ryu?

My breaks are about 15 minutes with a slow connection on my phone at that time, I didn't explain because my break was running short and I try to not be late back upfront from my breaks or lunches.

That was my bad, I live in WI which is where the Packer's are, the Packer's were going strong to make it into the super bowl, and well business at a grocery store gets hectic because of this. Part of it was me being annoyed because of the work I was doing with me coming back to people demanding quotes, so it was me not acting rationally in some ways.

Scum? Well.

X1, Zen, giraffelasergun, Nicholas1024.

When I list scum they are only people I am whiling to lynch otherwise they are in the middle.

X1 doesn't explain himself, he places votes and tries to stay on the low. He doesn't really defend himself on his claims except with the gambit claim which I find to be questionable, nothing before seems to even hint he was trying to do this. Zen's soft claim is the only reason I'm even questioning this idea for a lynch.

Zen's behavior early on is making me really question him, he is probably the lowest of the four on my list and I probably could take him off, however he is on here for one reason , X1. If his claim is wrong and X1 flips scum, I'm looking at him next. Otherwise he would be off the list.

giraffelasergun, has done little to nothing for town. It's his attitude to do little to nothing which is why I'm questioning him. Plus he is the fill in for Gordy right? That is adding more to the case. He's kinda just floating along compared to others.

Nicholas1024, his limited content on others and deliberately talks about not rereading, his assertive attitude is making me question him all around. He seemed to retort to insults and belittlement in his most recent post.

I'm really not happy at the way the game's going right now.


Have you noticed that I lack scum motivation as well? Blast it, if I were scum I'd have been tunneling on GLG/X1 the whole day to mimic the way I've played as town for the past 20 games.


I said in one of my very first posts that I was going to make a conscious effort to try NOT to tunnel this game. So yeah, compared to my normal play they'll look like that.


Says the person who pushes a deadline lynch on someone with several people hating him already (Beatstick and GLG already hated me, and Raz can easily be persuaded since I called him out as scum), who has admitted to being behind on the game, and is also by his own admission unavaiable to post for 12 hours (which is a lot at deadline) And that's not even mentioning the gord wagon you pushed for the first 20 pages. Yay hypocrisy...


So I went too far to avoid tunneling.


Because frankly, I need to reread, and I lack the motivation to do it. That's a constant problem for me regardless of alignment, and one of the reasons I usually tunnel so much (pushing the same points is a lot easier than going back to find new ones.)


I changed my mind after looking back at the evidence and judging it for myself. Also known as avoiding tunneling. Which I said I was going to do in one of my first posts. I'm really starting to question your intelligence and your towniness. (And in before Oh-my-gosh-you-suck accusations)


What exactly do you think I'm scum for again?


Because he's scum and by process of elimination? (Semi-serious here)


I have solid interaction with Gord/GLG, you, X1, Raziek, and have clearly aligned myself with Overswarm.


You're really pulling out all the stops out, aren't you?


I wanted to follow up some on my Raziek case. And not following up is something that you've just attacked me for. Still though, I think GLG > Raziek as a lynch at this point, so Unvote, Vote: GLG


Yay for bandwagoning on other's cases and accusing ME of doing the exact same thing.


Against the crowd? Look, both Overswarm and I were there long before you, so quit lying.


Are you sure you aren't describing yourself?


Again, I said in one of my first posts that I'm not available until 3:00ish on weekdays. There never was a chance for me to respond to this.

@Any other questions
Look, I'm sorry but you'll have to re-ask them.

By the way Zen, I should thank you in one way for attacking me. It's definitely given me some motivation.

I just looked through Red Ryu's 25 posts (a decent amount of which are fluff, and at least a third of which were in the past 24 hours), and I think wanting him dead is justified given how he's just lurked and avoided stances aside from popular ones (anti-Zen, anti-X1, and now anti-me). However, due to his lack of connections, I think he'd make better vig fodder, and that GLG is a much better D1 lynch.

I'll forgive the inactiveness, but not these posts and how it comes off.

These posts seem to try and discredit me for saying I've been posting more fluff and staying off the radar by avoiding stances.

Added to the fact he isn't trying to provide reasons and working with insults to do the job for him. This explosion seems to have some legit questions at the beginning but after that point it turns badly when he stopping putting out reasoning with more insults and one liners to not really give himself a good rebuttal. No real example mostly just personal attacks on me and Zen.

I'm keeping my vote on him.

@Rajam: your post is next it need a post by itself.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, here's a quick summary of the main accusations against me:

1)Defending Gord.
2)Me "tearing people down without making it look like he's tearing them down"
3) Meta accusations about me not tunneling.
4)General inactivity and failing to deliver on the reread.

Now look, regarding point 1), I fail to see how it's a scumtell at all. I admit that occasionally scum will defend a townie for townpoints, but that doesn't make defending someone scummy. After all, there are times when scum is active, does that make activity a scumtell? Of course not! No, for defending someone to be a scumtell, the defense itself has to be scummy. However, was my early-game defense on Gord really that scummy? Until Zen explained his logic behind attacking gord, the only accusation was X1's "standard tell" gambit, which he'll admit was just for reads and wasn't a valid attack (despite being presented as one). Can you guys really call me scum for defending someone against THAT?

Regarding point 2), that seems to be an issue with my playstyle more than anything else. Look, when I get frustrated I have a tendency to lose my temper and insult people. However, if that was truly indicative of alignment, I'd have to be scum in at least 70% or so of my games. (For example, check post#577 of Tree stump mafia where I totally lose it and blow up at rockin.)

As far as point 3) goes, the long and the short of it is, I'm trying to improve my game. Here's the critique I got from Kirby King in Mafia All Stars (my most recent game, I was town)

Nicholas1024
You're not a terrible player; you noted correctly that Gaston was not necessarily town even before alignment-switching shenanigans had been made public, and you had named Zen and GLG in a four-man scumteam by D2. Your real problem is that you're a massive tunneler, and that really hurts you even when you happen to be right. You lose credibility for not being willing to consider that you might be wrong, and since you are so often, in fact, wrong, no one ever has any reason to think you're right (even when you are). And to be honest, statistically speaking that reasoning probably works out in the long run--you got stuck on anyone you thought skimmed the thread and never let go; refuting doesn't help because historically you don't admit you're wrong anyway. You don't catch scum by going "aha, you skimmed, I caught you!" It's not like you were the only one doing it, but you didn't let go when people like J did. And then there was all the hemming and hawing over whether to lynch LL or GLG D1--all that going back and forth pretty much lost you any credit I think you could've claimed by being right about GLG in the first place, because you didn't really commit to either case.

I know my play doesn't match up with my previous town play, but that's because I'm consciously trying NOT to tunnel (and considering that you're the one who really hated my tunneling Zen, it seems VERY ironic that you're trying to lynch me for it!), and I said as much in my first post this game. Also, as for me not being able to do "reckless townie" as scum, I haven't been scum in ages. The last time I was scum was in Marathon mafia D2 (hardly a normal game, but I did pull off my usual tunneling self there). If you want to go back to a normal game (Not counting Mind screw and getting schooled, as I was effectively cult 90% of the time and they weren't exactly normal anyway), you need to go all the way back to Wonderland mafia! So, to assume I couldn't pull off reckless townie as scum just isn't justified.

Regarding point 4)... well, I've let this game slip. The fact is, I lack motivation, and there's not much reason for a townie to promise a reread and not deliver (aside from lacking motivation, as I've said.) However, I'd just like you to consider, what possible scum motivation is there for promising a reread and not delivering? You get tons of pressure once people realize that you didn't deliver on the reread, (like what's happened here), and you basically sabotage any credibility you had in the first place (of which I had a decent amount.) Also, I'm hardly alone in lurking, as we have about 4 or 5 other lurkers in this game.

@Zen
I have just one question for you. What are you going to do when I flip town? (Make that two questions, will you use a dunce-cap avatar on my townflip?)

 

[Xivii]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12046361&postcount=485

Regarding point 4)... well, I've let this game slip. The fact is, I lack motivation, and there's not much reason for a townie to promise a reread and not deliver (aside from lacking motivation, as I've said.) However, I'd just like you to consider, what possible scum motivation is there for promising a reread and not delivering? You get tons of pressure once people realize that you didn't deliver on the reread, (like what's happened here), and you basically sabotage any credibility you had in the first place (of which I had a decent amount.) Also, I'm hardly alone in lurking, as we have about 4 or 5 other lurkers in this game.

@Zen
I have just one question for you. What are you going to do when I flip town? (Make that two questions, will you use a dunce-cap avatar on my townflip?)

You wont flip town. However if you did, I would reorganize my thoughts from there and yes I would gladly use such an avatar :D

 

[Xivii]

"Also, I'm hardly alone in lurking, as we have about 4 or 5 other lurkers in this game."

 

[Vult Redux]

Do you think Zen is Town, Nich?

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'm not sure. His play is completely unlike what I've seen of town-Zen in the past (town-Zen is usually casual and more in the background), but even further from scum-Zen (even more in the background and semi-lurkish). I have a bad feeling that he's completely altered his scum-style after all stars to imitate "townie recklessness". It's just a hunch at this point, but something to keep in mind.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Stop framing things.

Gordito was scummy as hell, replaced out, and we got GLG who was also scummy. Nich is one of like 6 people that have been acting the exact same as him. There's no reason I've seen to single him out over someone like CDubs. Actually, I see more reason to look at CDubs because CDubs regularly posts "sorry about inactivity". You can't post "sorry about inactivity" and not post any content.

What I don't get is why aren't you trying to lynch me or cdubs right now instead of saying "I don't want to lynch nich?" I mean granted your vote is on me but instead of trying to convince people to look at other people and not nich you're just enforcing the fact you want to lynch not nich. Also, specifically, what reads do you think you'd be getting from lynching me?

@Red Ryu: I have done stuff for town, and I am attempting to do stuff as well.

@Nich w.r.t. 726:
Point 2: Just because it is part of your normal play style doesn't change the fact that its still scummy.
Point 4: Scum get an advantage by saying that they'll reread to make it look like they're active when they actually aren't, thats a wolf advantage.

@Beatstick: I was responding to luxor's point that I'm "nitpicky" and I was indeed satisfied with your answer to my question with regards to ran and rajam.

 

[Overswarm]

What I don't get is why aren't you trying to lynch me or cdubs right now instead of saying "I don't want to lynch nich?"

A lynch is better than no lynch. I'm almost completely reliant on both you and CDubs to present information, which you guys tend to not do. Someone has to die, and I do not approve of one of my few town reads being that choice; I definitely approve of people that have deserved it and have no redeeming qualities.

 

[Xivii]

Not willing to lynch toDay:
X1
Zen
BeatStick
Luxor
FrozenFlame

Willing to lynch the most:
Vult
Glyph/Ran
Probably Gord/glg (Need a reread)
Red Ryu

Anyone else not in these lists if really convinced by my fellow townmates

@Zen: I still think Ran is a good play. I admit I've skimmed a little his last posts, but I read his 517 and 519 and mostly, if not all of the questions there, are just focused to provoke wishy washy/OMGUS/WIFOMing reactions.

@Ran: You said my accusations on Glyph were dumb at the end of your 519. Give details, since I haven't seen you addressing my case. I don't know how lack of scumhunt, addressing easy issues (which is the same as saying bland content) and unnatural town reactions are dumb. Also, stop asking questions just because, most of them don't help at all.

ika:

 

[Luxor]

Zen's Day 1 activity as of late seems to me an almost EXACT parallel of X1's D1 in SC (X1 was scum). Seems normal townie early on, but then starts pushing hard for a lynch. There's even parallel use of pictures to encourage hammering. Still too early to say, but Zen's lost a lot of town points in my book as of late.

But I agree with the point, hammer Nich and let's move on. I'm hungry for new information.

 

[Overswarm]

I'd rather lynch Zen than Nich. -_-;;

WHY is everyone after Nich? I don't understand it at all. I haven't seen one post that is even remotely convincing. It's just a ton of groupthink off of bad thinking.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Nich w.r.t. 726:
Point 2: Just because it is part of your normal play style doesn't change the fact that its still scummy.

Um, yes it does. If you knew a player (Let's call him Frozenflame Player X) who lurked through 90% of his games, scum or town, would it make ANY sense to lynch him for lurking? Any sense at all?

Point 4: Scum get an advantage by saying that they'll reread to make it look like they're active when they actually aren't, thats a wolf advantage.

Not when they don't deliver on it. For crying out loud, did I get an advantage from it?

Zen's Day 1 activity as of late seems to me an almost EXACT parallel of X1's D1 in SC (X1 was scum). Seems normal townie early on, but then starts pushing hard for a lynch. There's even parallel use of pictures to encourage hammering. Still too early to say, but Zen's lost a lot of town points in my book as of late.

But I agree with the point, hammer Nich and let's move on. I'm hungry for new information.

So, you're not sure about Zen-town any more (the leader of my wagon), the rest of the wagon is mainly new players, it seems that I've successfully refuted the main points against me (aside from the reread issue), and you still want me dead?

Look, although I can sympathize with lynching for information (It's one of the reasons GLG would be a really good lynch, his playerslot has a lot more connections than mine does), lynching for scum should be our #1 priority, and do you really think I'm scum? We can still swing this lynch around, all we need are a few players that are willing to take a stand against the crowd and vote according to their convictions.

@Zen
So, your response to my defense is basically "I don't care, die anyway"? That seems an awful lot like tunneling, which is something you've really blasted me for in the past. I don't like it.

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm not sure. His play is completely unlike what I've seen of town-Zen in the past (town-Zen is usually casual and more in the background), but even further from scum-Zen (even more in the background and semi-lurkish). I have a bad feeling that he's completely altered his scum-style after all stars to imitate "townie recklessness". It's just a hunch at this point, but something to keep in mind.

Okay.

Yeah I am Nich gives me Town vibes. GLG has already claimed and has better points working against him so I don't see the contest here.

 

[giraffelasergun]

I'd rather lynch Zen than Nich. -_-;;

I could go for a zen lynch. Zen's more recent posts leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, if you're opposed to the nich lynch then why aren't you trying to form a new wagon?

 

[Luxor]

unvote vote Zen

I feel it in my gut.

 

[Beat!]

We'll never get someone lynched if we continue like this ._.

 

[Raziek]

Hmmm.... I don't want to dismiss it as "me disliking his playstyle", since I'd effectively be slapping scum blinders on myself, preventing me from looking seriously at Zen.

I don't like the way he's dealt with Nabe's questioning, and I'm beginning to distrust my initial read.

I'd be ok with a Zen lynch, but I'd much sooner lynch X1. Either gives information on the other's flip, so I'm not too picky.

If X1 flips scum, I feel like Zen would be town.
If X1 flips town, that gives me a null read on Zen, possibly town.
If Zen flips scum, not sure what to think on X1.
If Zen flips town, I think X1 would be scum.

I'd rather lynch X1, since I have a stronger scum vibe from him, but if Zen flips town or X1 flips scum, I think that pegs/clears the other.

 

[Xivii]

Ok yeah Luxor is town again. I had a feeling he would respond that way. Nich scum =/= Luxor scum.

@Zen
So, your response to my defense is basically "I don't care, die anyway"? That seems an awful lot like tunneling, which is something you've really blasted me for in the past. I don't like it.

Nich nyou never adequately responded to my #685

In your #726 you simply chose reasons that you felt best you could respond to even though most of it had nothing to do with my points:

1)Defending Gord.
2)Me "tearing people down without making it look like he's tearing them down"
3) Meta accusations about me not tunneling.
4)General inactivity and failing to deliver on the reread.

1. Is a bad point made by glg and we all know that.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by this? So it must not have come from me.
3.. I didn't include any meta accusations bagainst you, I simlply refuted YOUR META DEFENSE:

Hmmm.... I don't want to dismiss it as "me disliking his playstyle", since I'd effectively be slapping scum blinders on myself, preventing me from looking seriously at Zen.

I don't like the way he's dealt with Nabe's questioning, and I'm beginning to distrust my initial read.

I'd be ok with a Zen lynch, but I'd much sooner lynch X1. Either gives information on the other's flip, so I'm not too picky.

If X1 flips scum, I feel like Zen would be town.
If X1 flips town, that gives me a null read on Zen, possibly town.
If Zen flips scum, not sure what to think on X1.
If Zen flips town, I think X1 would be scum.

I'd rather lynch X1, since I have a stronger scum vibe from him, but if Zen flips town or X1 flips scum, I think that pegs/clears the other.

You are an idiot man. I don't want to be mean, but you are. It's like you've been taking OS lessons.

unvote vote Zen

I feel it in my gut.

You're not an idiot, you're just a noob and I can understand why you would become so wearisome from my #733. But this is an example of where meta is just absolutely wrong. Using meta from ANOTHER player from ANOTHER game to say that SOMEONE ELSE is scum is just bad bad reasoning. This is the kind of meta that is bad and screws people up.

X posted a pic there.
X was scum.

Z posted a pic here.
Conclusion: Z is scum!

You just can't do that. It's a complete disconnect. We are completely different people and things such as posting a pic and wanting someone lynched are such small factors that do not make a persons alignment at all. Look, read throguh my posts this game again. You might even want to look through my SC posts to compare. I had to fight so dam hard everytime for a lynch in SC and it feels like Rajam is deliberately avoiding Nich. Nich needs to be lyncheeeeddd. I promise you if he flips town we can lynch me tomorrow . No I don't because that would be dumb. Just vote Nich though.

 

[Raziek]

You are an idiot man. I don't want to be mean, but you are. It's like you've been taking OS lessons.

Going to explain why, or are you just going to be an ******* the entire game?

 

[Xivii]

What is it you do not like about my play? Why would you lynch someone based on their playstyle and not their alignment? You've done nothing this game and its like you have no thought process at all.

 

[Raziek]

Did you read my post at all? I said I can't just brush off things I don't like as "playstyle johns" in my head.

That doesn't mean that I necessarily think you're scum, that means that I need to make sure I'm not ignoring POTENTIAL tells by attributing things to your playstyle.

BASED ON THE INTERACTION BETWEEN YOU AND X1, I believe that if you flip town, X1 is scum. If he flips scum, you''re town.

I said I would be ok with a lynch on you, but I would MUCH PREFER X1. I think he's scum, but you'd also provide information.

I'm not lynching you BECAUSE of your playstyle, but your playstyle is making me question my reads. Why would you WANT people to hate you as town? All it does it stir up dissent, create confusion and arguments that detract from actual scum-hunting. YOU GAIN NOTHING BY BEING AN *******.

If you have a problem with something someone says, LOGICALLY DEAL WITH IT.

Don't call everyone idiots just because they say something you don't like.

 

[Luxor]

@Zen: The picture is not at all the only reason I think you're scum, it's the straw that broke the camel's back. When I commented on the picture I said, "Still too early to say, but Zen's lost a lot of town points in my book as of late-" I never implied that picture alone incriminated you. Every post you've made in the last 2-3 pages has stood out to me as scummy, and some of your earlier play does as well. Might do a post-by-post tomorrow.

Zen could use some more votes.

 

[Cdubs1987]

So it almost pains me to do this, but I agree with OS. I don't think the Nich lynch makes any sense.

I think Nich's #726 does a really good job of defending himself.

However, Nich has made one post that really stuck out to me implying he is scum. (#182)

@Overswarm
Regarding my earlier comment about an X1/Zen teamup, I didn't understand at the time why they were going after Gord (especially since X1 was practically begging to be lynched with that "standard tell" stuff.) Now that Zen's filled in his reasoning (a lot of which is meta), I understand where he's coming from, but at the time I just grouped them together.

Anyway, you seem to agree with me regarding X1, so why don't you help me start a wagon?

@X1
I don't like your play up to this point, and the way you claim the standard tell crap was a gambit for getting reads makes me uneasy. (Especially how you say you weren't even paying attention to Gord's posts when he was the center of it!) It feels too much like scum asking for a do-over to me. I want a full explanation from you on just how you determined town/scum from that.

@Zen
I think I'm convinced on gord-scum (the replacement request was really the last straw there). However, before we lynch him I want to check out X1.

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone pointed this out. Basically Nich is saying, "X-1 is scummy for pushing gord wagon real hard, but I still think gord is scum".

@ Nich. When saying this, were you assuming that X-1 was just trying to make it look like he was grilling his scum partner to then confirm him town?

Other than that post, I never quite got why GLG's "nich is defending me and therefore he is scummy" was taken seriouisly. Especially after I pointed that Beatstick was just as guilty of this, if not more guilty. I elaborated on this in post #400
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12033445&postcount=400

So then, in #401, GLG says

Beatstick's defenses(at least of the ones you quoted) are him saying he thinks I'm town and not that he's defending me, some wishy washy views(actually that makes me want to look at him more), and I guess the 83 is a defense. I must not have seen that and will probably look at beatstick more.

I wish I would have jumped on this when it happened. If saying you think some one is town isn't defending them, then please tell me what is. What I don't get, is why everyone is on Nich's case for his defenses, and not on Beatstick's. I really don't understand how he is at L-2. I don't see most of what he has done as very scummy. As far as inactivity and skimming goes, this is day 1. This is a 16 man game, we can wait until day 2 or 3 to see who is mostly inactive (I realize that means I am going to have to step my game up), and then get rid of people who seem unlikely to be helpful.

I think there are lynches we can make that gives us some info. I suppose if Nich did come up scum, we will get information from his lynch, but I'm not sure exactly how I'd make sense of it. If he came up town, it really wouldn't change who I'd like to lynch to much anyway.

Right now the people with votes on them are, Nich, Ryu, GLG and OS.

I want to say at this point in time I would be willing to vote X1, however I'm not sure we really have the time to do so, as it might be hard to get 9 votes in so little time. I feel like X1 coming up scum could give us some info, in fact if X1 were scum I would be willing to believe that OS is town. My reasoning for this is a slue of posts, such as OS post # 462

Originally Posted by Zεη

Then why did you vote x1 coming into the game?

Because his actions were scummy. In case you didn't notice, I've kinda been on his case the whole ****ing game. I don't think I'm exactly slinging my vote around like a cudgel and instead using it like a precise tool, focusing it on an individual who has been acting in a bad light.

but basically my reasoning comes from the way X1 and OS have been going at each other. This doesn't mean they CAN'T be scummates, but for right now I would certainly be more likely to believe OS is town if X1 is scum.

I'm not sure it is clear that X1 was running a gambit. I think the "standard tell" thing was an intentional lie, so that he could claim the whole thing was a gambit if pressure came off of Gord. I don't feel like finding the post right now, but I remember some one said that X1 has done the "standard tell" thing before and turned up scum.

As for Red Ryu, I think some of his posts illicit weak play, and not necessarily scum play. FF tore apart Ryu for his post 77

So Zen, are you saying part of your case is coming off personal experiance you have had with Gordy?

Don't you think that can be a bit dangerous as it falls under kind of a gut feeling kind of read?

Frozen said this is RYU trying to look useful while not actually offering anything. I think Ryu may just not have understood the usefulness of meta-ing. For right now, I would teaher vote GLG.

Gordy was scummy at the beginning, and I don't like GLG's attack on Nich. I believe we can get info from GLG's lynch. Of the four people with votes on them at this moment, GLG is the lynvh I support most aside from OS, but since I don't think I'm gonna get support to lynch OS today,


VOTE:GLG

 

[Xivii]

Raz quote everything you haven't liked about my playstyle or at least from when you started saying that. You keep saying you don't like my playstyle, but what is my playstyle? And the connection you're trying to make between me and x1
ir how town loses.

Explain how he is scum if I am town and how I'm town if he is scum.

Luxor such as? Also neither me or x1 is being lynched today because I can prove we are town so you are wasting our time and derailing from the best lynch we have.

 

[Xivii]

is *

 

[Overswarm]

Raz quote everything you haven't liked about my playstyle or at least from when you started saying that. You keep saying you don't like my playstyle, but what is my playstyle? And the connection you're trying to make between me and x1
ir how town loses.

Explain how he is scum if I am town and how I'm town if he is scum.

Luxor such as? Also neither me or x1 is being lynched today because I can prove we are town so you are wasting our time and derailing from the best lynch we have.

You're like ****ing Bill Clinton at the Lewinsky trials. You just keep asking people to define things that are obvious to everyone else, then never touch the subject unless you absolutely have to.

 

[Beat!]

I really don't think we should lynch Zen. He's implied more than once that he and x1 are masons or some kind of similar role, and I don't want to lynch someone who could potentially be cleared as confirmed town.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I don't really think it was necessary to call attention to that, Beat, that's a bit scuzzy.

Lol at the sudden rush and everybody now liking a Zen lynch. What changed? You're bringing up the same things I brought up 100+ posts ago. I don't know if you're skimming or scum (except GLG whose middle name is "Skimmy Jim") but get your heads out of your *****. This cannot have just occurred to you people now.

Lynch Nich. Raz can also go. Zen is not the play toDay. You're too late to that party.

 

[X1-12]

Yeah me and Zen are good friends


lol.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ok yeah Luxor is town again. I had a feeling he would respond that way. Nich scum =/= Luxor scum.

Buttering him up so he'll join your wagon on me again? Don't even try it.

Nich nyou never adequately responded to my #685

Fine, I'll do so now then.

Nich, tunneling is known as a town tell for you. So for you to say if you were scum, you would be tunneling is contradictory to the evidence of presented in the majority of your games.

As town, I do tunnel a lot. However, this is covered under point 3 from my last post. The advice I've been getting lately has been not to tunnel, and so I'm consciously avoiding tunneling. Also, what scum meta do you have on me? Very little. I've only been anti-town 5 times or so through my whole mafia career, three of which were hardly normal games(Marathon mafia D2, where I pulled off the whole tunneling as mafia thing quite well actually, Getting Schooled, Mind Screw I was cult in. To go back to a NORMAL game I was mafia in, you have to go all the way back to Wonderland mafia!)

Lack scum motivation? How would one be able to determine this?

Easy. You simply ask what motivation scum would have for promising a reread and failing to deliver (while occasionally posting some content, and reminding town about his promise.) Answer: ZERO.

We can determine that you lack town motivation because of your lack of scumhunting and your jumping on weak points. But to say that you have a lack of scum motivation is weird. We don't know that. If anything, the way you have been playing leans more towards a scum playstyle...

Covered above.

Not tunneling isn't the same as not persuing your thoughts and cases. Since you've been playing this way, it leads me to believe that you only mentioned this at the beginning because you knew you wouldn't be able to get away with your tunneling this game because you're scum. It's not easy to fake reckless town, and scum don't want that kind of attention.

So I withdrew too early to avoid tunneling. It's not exactly easy finding the right balance, and I'm getting my thoughts out there anyway. It's not like 80% of the game has made their own new case on another player.

None of this but the first line relates to the point at all. You're just rambling now which shows me you have no real line of thought, you're simply posing. As for why I am not the same as you: I've taken strong stances on various people.

And flipflopping drastically. You used to think GLG was scum and I was town, then you just swung a 180 out of nowhere.

-The only person that was pointing suspicion in your direction was glg.

Wrong, Beatstick was as well, and Raziek could likely be easily swayed (because he's new, and I'd just made a case against him). So that's an easy 4 votes for your wagon. You knew from my first post that my playstyle this game wouldn't match up with my previous town playstyles, you knew you had 12 hours at least to build a wagon against me, you knew I was behind on the thread, and you know from past games that I'm a threat when playing well. All of those factors made me a nice, sensible, and easy person for a mafiat to push.

-The only person pointing suspicion at Gord when I made my case was no one.

You're forgetting X1 (True, he was on it with a gambit for reads, not to lynch, but you weren't the first to give a reason to push Gord.) Besides, he's an easy person to attack, as Adumbrodeus stated a while back.

-Where as everything that you had mentioned on Raz had already been pointed out multiple times. Then you come in like you were making some whole new case.

So, I'm not allowed to post a case unless it's 100% new material? When I make a case, I'm going to use all the material available, whether it's new or not.

Also that line where you were like "I just searched thix guys posts and found some interesting things" (somethhng like that) is where I got my first major bit of suspicion on you. That whole line is basically saying " hey look at me I'm doing something gaiz".

So, would you prefer me not to contribute anything at all and just drop off the map? I hadn't the time/motivation to complete a full reread, so I did a scan of one player's posts to keep contributing in the meantime.

Furthermore, you had hardly commented on the things going on around you.

When you're behind on the thread, that happens.

It would make sense if you were scumhunting and making a catch up post and then wanted to reiterate the points on Raz, but you showed no sign of involvement anywhere else which shows me that you just randomly picked something you could put your vote on and show that you were here.

I saw something that caught my eye on his posts and did a search on them. You act like that's a scummy offense.

You don't have to go back. You can create new ones by asking questions and staying involved with current affairs.

When you have little to no grasp of half the game's alignment, a reread is rather helpful. (Although, admittedly this back and forth between me and my wagoners has definitely helped out my scum-dar some.)

I will wear the dunce hat if you flip town
But we don't really have to worry about that.

You're right, because I'm not getting lynched. (Although I'll look for a good pic just in case.)

The first 4 will be cleared upon your flip. You and OS' "friendship" is a scum gambit. You're both scum.

*Slow clap* Way to over-simplify. And what information would you get from my townflip?

In your #726 you simply chose reasons that you felt best you could respond to even though most of it had nothing to do with my points:

Actually, I'm pretty sure that was a good summary. But anyway, are you happy now?

1. Is a bad point made by glg and we all know that.

People were still repeating it, so I had to refute it once and for all.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by this? So it must not have come from me.

GLG again.

3.. I didn't include any meta accusations bagainst you, I simlply refuted YOUR META DEFENSE:

Please, you're using meta against me, don't try to deny that. Call it a refutation of your counter to my meta defense if you want to, but it amounts to the same thing.

As you see, never accused you for being scum because you are not tunneling.

Not in so many words. You said tunneling is a town tell for me. That implies that not tunneling is a scumtell.

I accuse you of being scum because you are going beyond "not tunneling" into being a worhtless stump trying to cruise by the day.

Even supposing that was true (which it isn't), it's not enough. Just look at the postcounts, there are plenty of people just cruising by the day. Are they all scum too?

4.Never said this either.

One of the reasons I'm getting heat was from accusations of lurking and failing to deliver on the reread. In fact, just look at the above quote! "Being a worthless stump trying to cruise by the day."

There was little sense in replying to this post because your whole defense was working off of false premices.

Nope. You just couldn't refute it, so you're trying to dodge it and claim that I never covered the important stuff.

All four of your reasons were false/things I haven't said. You just made up and chose reasons that you felt you could best defend against. Reply to my #685 not your own made up ****.

Does repeating yourself make your case better or something? Because I covered this above.

These are my initial statements:

Also why Nich should be the play, read through his posts:

-He lacks any town motivation.
-All of his "reads" are only semi-persued.
-The only case he has made was on Raz. Such an easy case to make...
-He should have been more on glg for his all his bs but instead he is playing more to the flow rather than building much of his own (other than Raz which had been gone over plenty already).
-He avoids commenting on what's going on in the general mix, pops up here and to stay active.
-He accused me of tunneling Gord and then flipped when I gave some pretty ****y reasoning (from outside perspective) and took Gord as scum like it really was a strong case until I and others dropped attention from him.

-The way I dropped the reread makes no sense for scum.
-Consciously trying to avoid tunneling in accordance with the critique I've received.
-Oh yeah, you're one to talk. The cases you made on Gord and me were pretty easy too.
- So, you agree GLG's spouting garbage, and you found Gord scummy, but you think he's town? Did I miss something? Anyway, I was trying not to tunnel.
- Would you rather me lurk completely? Look, I'm sorry for not delivering on the reread, but I made some attempt to contribute, and I'm not the only one to lurk this game.
- I changed my mind based on Gord's play, and the reasons you gave. If you were lying about the meta, all Gord had to do was say so.

And to add two more since then:

-Nich is trying to push the wagon on whoever he feels is the best chance at getting lynched. He told us himself that as scum he has attempted to put the attention on other lurkers, the "guys look I'm know im this, but playes X,Y,and Z are too!" defense.
-He switched to glg because I told him it was scummy not to be voting glg...

-Push the wagon? I said Red Ryu (who at the time had the most votes aside from me and would have made a nice scapegoat if I was so inclined) was vig fodder, not for the lynch. I've been on GLG since before he replaced in, and you're portraying it like I've flipped around madly.
-My Raziek vote was going nowhere, might as well put my vote where it would be useful.

Nich why do you think glg is scummy again? A full post or just quoting where you said it will be fine.

Well, there was the case against Gord (your meta + that "Don't lynch me till D3" post, and the inconsistencies in his posts (Like whether he understood you were serious or not coming right out of RVS).) Add to that the awful case GLG has made on me since then, and I feel that's enough reasoning.

Anyway Zen, are you happy now?

One last thing, even if X1 and Zen do make a mason claim, that's not enough to clear them. This is a Xiivi game, so I wouldn't be surprised if he included some gimmick like a traitor mason (Look up some of his past games, he's included some interesting roles, to say the least). Not to mention they could just be two scum corroborating each other (I don't feel it's likely though, as I think X1 is town ATM.)

@Nabe
Even if we are late to the party, does that make the points themselves invalid? We can swing the lynch around in the time we have left, so unless you have good reasons NOT to do so, shut up and switch wagons.

 

[Rajam]

Back from playing brawl

Request votecount

Will move on Nich now, I already have a posture on Red Ryu and I can finish my analysis later toDay or even toMorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nich: Are you implying that you've made a case? Are you implying that you've somehow done any work to get Zen lynched? Defending yourself and throwing out remarks about someone being scummy isn't.

What do you think of my 521? After evaluating that, contrast it with this -- Zen made the statement that he'll catch scum with some plan by D2. You don't want to ride that out and see what comes of it? It's one extra Day. You can see how you look focused on self-preservation right now, I hope.

What does everyone think of my 521? Why is all this anti-Zen sentiment cropping up 200 posts after it began? It consists of the same things I've been saying all game, but now that it's Nich on the chopping block and Nich v. Zen, it's suddenly a hot-button issue.

I will support a Zen lynch. But everybody who's currently supporting it is dragging back an issue that's already been addressed -- he's not going toDay, because he's promised content toMorrow. Supporting a Zen lynch now doesn't excuse you from acknowledging that your points have already been voiced. You're phoning in content, Nich especially, and backing it up with long angry posts. That's not going to fly.

 

[Vult Redux]

Last minute 180 wagons are silly and only serve to scramble the Town (generally; no objection to Zen lynch here).

I really don't think we should lynch Zen. He's implied more than once that he and x1 are masons or some kind of similar role, and I don't want to lynch someone who could potentially be cleared as confirmed town.

Scummy.

Wouldn't that make a GLG lynch appeal to you more since he already has claimed?

Zen has implied a lot of things iirc.

 

[Overswarm]

why does everyone want to lynch zen but no one is voting for him o_O

 

[giraffelasergun]

Because I'd rather lynch nich over zen, but I'd be okay with lynching zen.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

>____> Oh gosh GLG you really are scummy.
Stop being scummy please.