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Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

Kantrip

Kantrip

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dabuz said:
I'd also like to add that FML ended up being scum that game. DM, is there any other slot you're considering to shoot today?





The case is held together by whether or not FML confirmed to seeing the role pm stuff.
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Do you not see the facebook chat telling, even without the role PM stuff?

There are also undertones of manipulation in their conversation, where FML tries to get Xastrn to set himself up against Ruy (a strong townread of FML) or Kary for a TvS ultimatum. Assuming Kary is town and FML is scum, that would make Xastrn responsible for getting either Ruy (town) or Kary (town) lynched, causing Xastrn to be in more trouble and FML not to even be held accountable for it. This is grimy.

There's also the point in time where Xastrn gets FML to agree to protect them. FML should have held to this because they should have had a solid townread on Xastrn at this point, yet when asked again they were still iffy and ended up saying "60/40 scum/town read." The only reason they agreed is because Xastrn offered them soup's unbreakable weapon. This is also really gross from them.

It all adds up to a lot more than whether or not Orbo actually saw the PM.
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

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I'll be the first to admit I have thought FML was town all game and this 180 came with a lot of thinking and reluctance, but I just can't see it any other way.

@Sokr: What do you think, man?

@dabuz: Who do you want dead?

@Kary: Would you shoot FML?
 
Dabuz

Dabuz

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@Pot: The thing is, FML has been playing pro-town so all this stuff is a shock, if they saw the role stuff it's a condemning case.

Ran or you, or FML if they saw the role stuff.
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

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dabuz said:
@Pot: The thing is, FML has been playing pro-town so all this stuff is a shock, if they saw the role stuff it's a condemning case.

Ran or you, or FML if they saw the role stuff.
Click to expand...
So the other stuff in the conversation isn't condemning? Not even slightly damning? Making you doubt your read, at least?

You think Xastrn could have faked that facebook log (the one post-role PM, specifically)?
 
Sokr

Sokr

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@Potassium: I'm not even sure anymore. I have to reevaluate almost all of my reads. FML's dropped to town lean from me (but that hinges on the re read I plan on doing), and some other reads have been shuffled around.
 
Dabuz

Dabuz

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Potassium said:
So the other stuff in the conversation isn't condemning? Not even slightly damning? Making you doubt your read, at least?

You think Xastrn could have faked that facebook log (the one post-role PM, specifically)?
Click to expand...
It does make me iffy about the slot, just not enough to do a 180 on my read.
 
Dabuz

Dabuz

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Red Ryu said:
Tell me how to build and lane as dragon knight if ya know.
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DK is one of my best heroes ^^

Generally you want to start with a soul ring recipe, 1 or 2 set of tangos, maybe a potion, and then branches. From there you build Soul Ring first then Power Treads. The steam guides give you lots of options to build from afterwards including chrysalis, maelstrom, ect. so just build according to what you need since DK is versatile.

If you want a kill lane you start stun then level up breath -> passive -> breath -> passive -> ulti and from there doesn't matter as long as you max skills and save stun for last.

If you can't get a kill lane, with with HP regen passive -> Breath -> Stun -> passive -> breath -> ulti -> same as above.

When it comes to actual laning, use your fire breath with soul ring to consistently harass, your HP regen means Soul Ring won't be a hindrance. You can generally be pretty ballsy with CSing and harassing because of once again, that HP regen passive. You're also a really strong fighter against physical damage heroes in lane due to your armor so feel free to harass them or go for kills.

DK can play in any lane well but I prefer him in offlane (solo or duo).

Aaaaand I completely got distracted and forgot this is a mafiascum thread :X
 
#HBC | Kary

#HBC | Kary

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So I didn't think this whole chat log debacle was going to affect my reads. I figured I could chalk it up to another thing I didn't like about Xastrn's play.
I even saw Xast say 'hey Kary shoot FML' and I was like 'LOL NOPE'.


Then I make the effort to actually read the thread, and it turns out there's some pretty serious questions against the FML slot.

On one hand, there's stuff that's obvious when you think about it, like why FML would separate if they thought Xast was town.
On the other hand, there's the absurd- like how you could look at 3 hours worth of chat logs and say to yourself that it doesn't prove anything one way or the other.


So I'm kinda just sitting here wondering how this game would have gone without this ****storm to deal with. In some ways I feel as though I'd rather the game just ended here, and we could all see how we did.

And I am really pissed off.


But I imagine the right play is to shoot FML here, unless they have some incredibly thorough explanation coming right up.

And I am really pissed off.
 
Dabuz

Dabuz

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FullMetalLynch said: ↑
Actually i just read the entire thing, i think you forgot to include the sou[ case to us first but i'll check again.


I can confirm the fb thing but confirming the timestamps is useless lol, Me saying : this timestamp good, isnt gonna get people off your throat :/. Plus im tired.​

833

Said he read the entire FB chatlog, that's enough for me since idk how anyone couldn't see town Xast after reading it all.
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

Ranmaru|Rajam
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Kary said:
People are asking me to shoot you. What do you want me to do? What do you think should happen toDay?
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Wait for Rajam to finish catching up, and for me to say more stuff, first of all. Basically let me try. I think Dabuz should be shot, but I'll take a look at the FML qt and comment on that. Yet I'm dipping as I'm on break from doing homework.


dabuz said:
I'd also like to add that FML ended up being scum that game. DM, is there any other slot you're considering to shoot today?
Click to expand...
True. I actually townread FML because of RAKE, and I scumread FML in the other game due to Orbo's opportunism and other things. My scumreads are the same, Ryu/Zen/Dabuz, but I'll look at the FML chat later and give thoughts.
 
Xastrn

Xastrn

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Death Mountain said:
True. I actually townread FML because of RAKE, and I scumread FML in the other game due to Orbo's opportunism and other things. My scumreads are the same, Ryu/Zen/Dabuz, but I'll look at the FML chat later and give thoughts.
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You're going to have to explain that scum team, because it's bonkers considering all that's going on. FML is 100% scum, so you're off on one already. We are essentially cleared town, and zen sort of comes along with us in most people's eyes, and if he's not, then you have to make a pretty big leap of faith. It's MUCH more likely that he's with us than that he is scum.

I don't have a HUGE problem with RR or dabuz being called scum, but they are honestly much closer to town than scum in our book.

You should really read that FML chat before you do ANYTHING else, because it's the biggest thing going on in this game currently.
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

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Potassium, I don't know your current reads, but, is your #809 still up? (specially what you say in the very last quote) What do you think of the time between posts when soup death happened?

Also Ryu, I'm back now so let me know when you're online again
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

Ranmaru|Rajam
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I mean the time lapsed between one post and the next one; for example your #1625 came 14 minutes after my #1624
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

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Xastrn said:
If Zen were to flip scum, btw, then this is a poorly designed game. I'd be bothered at Circus for screwing up the odd/even mechanic if he gave one half to scum and left us on a wild goose hunt for the other half only to screw us in the end. (Again, believe us or don't about the role. Time will tell, and you'll probably find a way to justify yourself for being wrong and somehow it being our fault.)
Click to expand...
ok, but remember this rule: if you rely on flavor, you'll get burned. Try to read Zen independent of this claim thing. I myself have designed games in the past with roles designed to burn those who rely on flavor, so don't put Zen 100% town just because of his claim.
 
Xastrn

Xastrn

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I agree that flavor alone shouldn't be what clears someone, but this argument isn't about flavor. It's about game design. They are distinct. We've explained this maybe 3 times already in this thread, but our role was designed to get us to search for the even counterpart. We have the skill to end any even day with no lynch simply by using the Attack command. We did NOT breadcrumb this. In fact, if you read our facebook chat log, you'll see that we not only discussed this skill, but actually said we would NOT share it ever, until it was very clearly in town's favor to do so.

Zen claimed early D2 after seeing our breadcrumbing regarding ODD and EVEN in our first 2 posts, among a few others when we dropped those breadcrumbs again. The trick is that he not only claimed the EVEN mechanic, but ALSO claimed the ability to end days early. Considering that we have that ability but never said anything, we believe that he has that ability explicitly.

Now follow this logic:

1. If Zen can end any odd day without a lynch, then scum has the ability to every other day.
2. If scum can skip every other day, then they get 2 NKs in a row every night.


Can you imagine a game design scenario in which scum could have this ability without it being completely broken in their favor?

Now, on top of that, do you think it's likely that we were set up to hunt for our even counterpart but this was designed purely to F with us and potentially swing game in scum's favor? BiM is already SUPER swingy. Adding swingy mechanics is NOT a sign of a progressive BiM design. This game is very clearly a move towards a better BiM design
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

Ranmaru|Rajam
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Xastrn said:
Can you imagine a game design scenario in which scum could have this ability without it being completely broken in their favor?
Click to expand...
I can imagine something worse: scum having an ability in which they can kill town and end a day!



oh wait....
 
Sokr

Sokr

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Xastrn, you have to realize that (assuming Zen was scum) if he ended a day without explanation, he'd most likely be killed the next day. Consider this scenario:
>mislynch D1
>town dies N1
>scum ends D2
>town dies N2
>scum who ended D2 dies

If we have a three man scum team then both sides have lost a third of their people. That's not too OP.

Side note: I didn't include the second N1 kill because we don't know scum did that.
 
Xastrn

Xastrn

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Ok, so feel free to defend the design. Zen could end D3 with no lynch. That means that scum gets N2 kills and N3 kills before we get to lynch anyone.

Does this sound like something the mod would build into the game?

Now imagine if we had happened to have 2 potential lynch candidates day 1, 1 scum, and 1 town. If Zen had "shot" the scum, it would have fizzled, no weapons would break, and then the day would have ended.
Then we could have argued if the target had a 1-shot shield or something during D2. Then we are still stuck with our 2 candidates. If we kill the townie, then D3 gets skipped AGAIN by Zen, and we end up down 5 or 6 townies with very little chance to win, if any. This would all have been completely possible if Zen had this ability. That would be a sign of horrible game design, and would be a completely plausible design.

There is NO WAY that Circus designed this game with scum having an ability to skip EVERY OTHER DAY. It just can't be possible.

Now if this was a claim in isolation, then we could just call BS. But since we can confirm that we have the exact pair ability AND because we are cleared at this point, it is almost certain that Zen is town.

Can you tell me if you believe my logic makes sense, in more than 1 line? I want to hear your analysis of this entire point. Spend some time on it. If you're honestly advocating for lynching Zen in this situation and if you HONESTLY believe FML is NOT scum, then you have a LOT of explaining to do. The less you do, the more likely you are scum yourself.

**********************


Isn't our deadline tonight at midnight? If so, our shot should go off VERY SOON, and definitely at FML.

It's time. I'll wait.
 
Death Mountain

Death Mountain

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ok, this is the thing. I read something along the lines that FML is like confirmed scum ¿? Without knowing the detail, I want to ask you something:

Can you copy-paste the FULL conversation you had with FML in the private qt? I know you quoted something in #743, but, again, I'd like to see the full 100% of it. Just a simple full copy-paste. If you want to take out the timestamps I don't care, just don't lose time giving format to the thing (You can make a subsequent post for that). It needs to be as fast as possible after this post. GO GO GO
 
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