Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

[Death Mountain]

That'd be ideal, yes thank you. Can you push away his bodyguard first?

 

[Xastrn]

Xast, can you quote from your case what the damning evidence against FML is?

I don't have to quote it. Pure logic works fine.

1. Our (unfair?) facebook chat log dump should have been a complete 100% clear. Even Red Ryu, our biggest opponent, has cleared us based on it. Anyone rational would think a timestamped conversation that was 2 hours long, followed by more conversation the following day, would clear us.
2. FML's response was to wobble and say I dunno 60-40 scum I'd say (even in public).
3. FML suggested we swing everything to Kary.
4. We agreed.
5. Within hours, Potassium started to swing attention to Kary, indicating that he likely had received info from FML to do so.
6. FML then separates from us saying the mob wants us and he won't stop them from killing us, despite the fact that the heat had dropped on us a little bit.

In summary:

FML knew we were town.
FML separated from us, allowing for the possibility of us getting killed, when he could have simply said we convinced him and/or focused on other targets that he preferred: Kary, for example.

 

[Xastrn]

That'd be ideal, yes thank you. Can you push away his bodyguard first?

1. Dabuz is in the back. We can't kill players in the back. (please read the rules carefully).
2. It's not ideal to kill dabuz right now, even if he is potentially scum. Nor is it ideal to kill ranmaru/DM right now, even if others think they might potentially be scum.
3. We have an almost completely confirmed scum in FML, with implications on Potassium if FML flips scum if we kill FML.

I'm more than happy to explore all sorts of possibilities for D3 once we get there, and to reread whoever we need to, but we might as well have a cop saying guilty on FML right now. Shooting on speculation is poor play if we have a 99% confirmed on FML.

I lean town on dabuz but will reread again based on flips and NKs if needed.
I lean scum slightly on DM, but will reread that whole slot based on flips and NKs if needed.
I read scum on Potassium, but will reread the whole GAME if FML flips town.

It's fine I guess if you guys want to discuss this stuff, but I think we'll have a lot of time for that when our pool is narrowed down on D3. Rereading on players that might get NK'ed anyways is pointless toDay, and meanwhile, we have a scum to kill in FML.

 

[Death Mountain]

So you want me to shoot dabuz?

If I could I would, but I wouldn't mind. But I just meant that I wonder what your thoughts on him now is. Do you agree/disagree with zen that he is doing better and that he should be left alone?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not moving off Dabuz if people are gonna shoot him unless I see a non false meta reason he is scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That'd be ideal, yes thank you. Can you push away his bodyguard first?

Asking Kary to shoot me?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

never said this though.

you need to talk to me face to face.

Did Orbo telll you he saw their role PM and that is was town.

If you did why did you not clear him off that?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't have to quote it. Pure logic works fine.

1. Our (unfair?) facebook chat log dump should have been a complete 100% clear. Even Red Ryu, our biggest opponent, has cleared us based on it. Anyone rational would think a timestamped conversation that was 2 hours long, followed by more conversation the following day, would clear us.
2. FML's response was to wobble and say I dunno 60-40 scum I'd say (even in public).
3. FML suggested we swing everything to Kary.
4. We agreed.
5. Within hours, Potassium started to swing attention to Kary, indicating that he likely had received info from FML to do so.
6. FML then separates from us saying the mob wants us and he won't stop them from killing us, despite the fact that the heat had dropped on us a little bit.

In summary:

FML knew we were town.
FML separated from us, allowing for the possibility of us getting killed, when he could have simply said we convinced him and/or focused on other targets that he preferred: Kary, for example.

Are you admitting you had it and you edited it out?

If you didn't then how could he clear you are town if you never put your role PM there.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If I could I would, but I wouldn't mind. But I just meant that I wonder what your thoughts on him now is. Do you agree/disagree with zen that he is doing better and that he should be left alone?

I don't have a strong opinion on dabuz. He's pretty null to me, and he's not very active. I see some things from him that are interesting, but I don't know whether to like them or not. I don't have any particular desire to keep him around, but i'm not in a hurry to shoot him either.

But my questions are about you. I thought you were very confident in dabuz being scum, right? So I don't get how you're saying 'you wouldn't mind' if I shot dabuz. Surely that's something that you want to happen?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

why would I lie about something like that.
as any alignment.
dont ****ing piss me off. That kinda stuff pisses me off. i'm mistaken, fine, But dont say I lied.

But if you did see their Role PM, why didn't you clear them?

Or were you under a different mindset?

 

[Death Mountain]

I don't have a strong opinion on dabuz. He's pretty null to me, and he's not very active. I see some things from him that are interesting, but I don't know whether to like them or not. I don't have any particular desire to keep him around, but i'm not in a hurry to shoot him either.

But my questions are about you. I thought you were very confident in dabuz being scum, right? So I don't get how you're saying 'you wouldn't mind' if I shot dabuz. Surely that's something that you want to happen?

Alright. Gotcha.

??? I don't see how either me or you shooting him dead matters. As long as he gets dead, regardless. I'm not like OMFG YOU TOOK MY CHANCE TO SHOOT HIM SO I COULD TAKE THE GLORY. I don't give a **** about that. Once Dabuz flips scum people can MAYBE start to understand what I'm saying.

It's more like a "I wouldn't mind if you shot him before me" but it''s not "I'm just gonna leave my gun here and don't mind if dabuz got shot but anyone can get shot"

 

[Death Mountain]

Asking Kary to shoot me?

Afraid?

The response is no anyways; I meant that, since we can't convince you, I was asking someone else if they could convince you to leave dabuz open

When did I mention meta as a reason for dabuz scum?

The further I advance my read, the more obv dabuz is scum; I don't even

 

[Death Mountain]

When did I mention meta as a reason for dabuz scum?

When you weren't here yet. (Ran gave meta, that obviously people don't see >_>)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Alright. Gotcha.

??? I don't see how either me or you shooting him dead matters. As long as he gets dead, regardless. I'm not like OMFG YOU TOOK MY CHANCE TO SHOOT HIM SO I COULD TAKE THE GLORY. I don't give a **** about that. Once Dabuz flips scum people can MAYBE start to understand what I'm saying.

It's more like a "I wouldn't mind if you shot him before me" but it''s not "I'm just gonna leave my gun here and don't mind if dabuz got shot but anyone can get shot"

I'm not trying to argue about who shoots him.

What I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of people who want to see you shot, but you don't seem particularly enthusiastic about shooting anyone.

You almost seem like you have given up. Do you want me to shoot you in this situation?

 

[Death Mountain]

I'm enthusiastic of shooting the guy that's already paired up and hugging someone and is loved and is protected forever and ever.

I just don't wave my gun around all day. I would just say "I'm gonna shoot you... scumguymcscum" and give them time to claim. Good guy letting the day actually have time to talk and not end like D1. I try to play it (I try >_>) smart with a gun.

Nope. I don't want to be shot mid-talking and mid-rajam catching up.

Let me ask you. What is concerning you (if you are concerned at all) about me? Do you want to shoot me?

 

[Death Mountain]

When you weren't here yet. (Ran gave meta, that obviously people don't see >_>)

oh cool So you guys have both meta and non-meta reasons; what else do you need?

Also Ryu, the answer is no but only for now, who knows, things may change in the near future

 

[Death Mountain]

I'm not moving off Dabuz if people are gonna shoot him unless I see a non false meta reason he is scum.

I'm willing to clarify my meta reasons if that's what really is holding you back and bring more evidence. If you are really town I want you to try and understand me here. Also consider I held a town read on Dabuz in Walmart, so I do think I can read him. So that goes into that as well.

 

[Death Mountain]

Seriously. NO QUICK SHOOTING. I DON'T GIVE A ****. IF YOU ARE TOWN, DON'T QUICK SHOOT. ONLY SCUM NOW BENEFITS FROM QUICKSHOOTING.

It's fine if you want to volunteer to shoot, but

1. You gotta ask the person to claim and give them time (and others to say stuff) to defend themselves.
2. You have to let others know that you want to shoot. IF THERE WAS A TOWN BOMB IN TOWN YOU WOULD BE MORE CAREFUL. We don't know if there is one or not cuz closed setup, but you never know.

So say something like

"I want to shoot you. I'll give you till this time as a deadline." Obviously give them enough time to be able to come in and say stuff. Don't be un-realistic. ****ING BE RESPONSIBLE.

Also, scummies shooting scummies is stupid. It outs Power roles and we get ****ed in the *** and we realize it too late. Sure, sometimes you can find scum red handed if you make them try to shoot you, but do we know that most of the scum team even have guns or not? Anyways, I think volunteering is better. But we all have to be smart. **** the system. Be responsible. We aren't in an Open BIM you know.

Say it with me.

**** the system. Be responsible. Save the Cheerleader. Save the World.

ALSO TO RYU, YOU SHOT SOUP AND GOT LUCKY. REMEMBER YOU MIGHT HAVE SHOT ME. IF YOU DID I WOULD HAVE BLOWN UP. SO NO. ASK PPL TO CLAIM. I was ABOUT to go off on you if you shot me. lol

I mean, this whole quote lines up with how I would play with a gun. I just don't go emotional and shoot like I did in my first BiM.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright. Gotcha.

??? I don't see how either me or you shooting him dead matters. As long as he gets dead, regardless. I'm not like OMFG YOU TOOK MY CHANCE TO SHOOT HIM SO I COULD TAKE THE GLORY. I don't give a **** about that. Once Dabuz flips scum people can MAYBE start to understand what I'm saying.

It's more like a "I wouldn't mind if you shot him before me" but it''s not "I'm just gonna leave my gun here and don't mind if dabuz got shot but anyone can get shot"

I don't like this post for the bolded.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm willing to clarify my meta reasons if that's what really is holding you back and bring more evidence. If you are really town I want you to try and understand me here. Also consider I held a town read on Dabuz in Walmart, so I do think I can read him. So that goes into that as well.

Considering your past posts on me, I sincerely doubt you would think I am town.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Do you want me to shoot you in this situation?

Can I answer this and you follow up?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Afraid?

I don't care, nor would Kary shoot me today.

 

[Death Mountain]

Considering your past posts on me, I sincerely doubt you would think I am town.

That's not the point. I'm trying to get you to see my view point, but you only care to look at the "if you are town" part.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That's not the point. I'm trying to get you to see my view point, but you only care to look at the "if you are town" part.

I saw your viewpoint, you're wrong and your misquoting to spin his play on that is gross.

 

[Death Mountain]

I saw your viewpoint, you're wrong and your misquoting to spin his play on that is gross.

Again with this. How am I 'misquoting'? What exactly is that? What does it mean when I say I'm willing to give more quotes?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Again with this. How am I 'misquoting'? What exactly is that? What does it mean when I say I'm willing to give more quotes?

I already answered all of this when I butted heads with you.

All you have done is quote his meta that people tried to lynch me on when I replaced into his slot in Wallmart.

 

[Death Mountain]

All you have done is quote his meta

Ah, so where is the part of me 'misquoting'? I thought you meant I purposely skewed a quote or something. (Because I didn't do that)

Your meta that was quoted in Walmart mafia, who quoted it? Was it skewed? How was it wrong? (Was it different?)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ah, so where is the part of me 'misquoting'? I thought you meant I purposely skewed a quote or something. (Because I didn't do that)

When you quoted his meta earlier.

Your meta that was quoted in Walmart mafia, who quoted it? Was it skewed? How was it wrong? (Was it different?)

Not my meta, Dabuz when he replaced out after the DDoS on day 2. People quoted his day 1 and called it scummy for what you are saying.

FML called it scum that game.

You quoted it, you skewed it here, it's wrong because it's not different to here,

 

[Death Mountain]

But I townread him that game. :s I'll look for those quotes to see what you are saying then.

I also didn't skew it.

 

[Death Mountain]

Also bbl, studying and classes till night time. So maybe I'll post tomorrow evening.

 

[Death Mountain]

I have an "skill" called Even Rhythm which allows me to attack on even days. The important thing to note here is that if I attack on an odd day, the day will end.

I noticed that Xastern was my counterpart in my #415 which is why my read on him suddenly changed. I believe Xastern has Odd rhythm and after his using the dragonstone I'm pretty sure as the dragonstones are used by manakete who have odd rhythm.

??? you can attack on odd days? Sorry not understanding the difference; you say that if you attack on an odd day, day will end. Does it mean that your attacks on even days don't end those days?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm enthusiastic of shooting the guy that's already paired up and hugging someone and is loved and is protected forever and ever.

I just don't wave my gun around all day. I would just say "I'm gonna shoot you... scumguymcscum" and give them time to claim. Good guy letting the day actually have time to talk and not end like D1. I try to play it (I try >_>) smart with a gun.

Nope. I don't want to be shot mid-talking and mid-rajam catching up.

Let me ask you. What is concerning you (if you are concerned at all) about me? Do you want to shoot me?

People are asking me to shoot you. What do you want me to do? What do you think should happen toDay?

I don't want to shoot you if you are town, but I am not convinced that you are town, either.

 

[Xastrn]

??? you can attack on odd days? Sorry not understanding the difference; you say that if you attack on an odd day, day will end. Does it mean that your attacks on even days don't end those days?

I'll answer this one since it applies to us both on opposite days, and I happen to be online right now.

If we attack on the correct days (odd for us, even for him), then the kill happens and the day ends as usual. See day 1. We are odd. We shot soup. Day ended.
If we attack on the incorrect days (even for us, odd for him), then no kill happens, and the day ends anyways. Essentially a no-lynch.

 

[Xastrn]

@Kary

What's your kill list, in what order right now? Who do you want to see dead the most, essentially?
Can you give a 2 sentence reason on each?

@Red Ryu: Same question.

 

[Death Mountain]

Kary, you opened this D2 very upset with what happened D1. From your #520 and onwards we can see this. In your #530 you said you had a town read on soup, and from your reaction at the beginning of toDay, it seems it was a strong read. But... how did it develop? Can you explain? Given that in your #113 (http://smashboards.com/threads/fire...hot-from-the-dark.341650/page-3#post-15940851) you had this statement:

"I haven't backed out of anything. I still don't like you pairing up, I still don't think it's pro-town. You asked me to give it a goddamn rest, and since we clearly have a difference of opinion, I decided not to push it any further."

we can see that your town read on soup wasn't so all the time. Can you detail the evolution of your soup read D1?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll get back to you on that.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Both heads busy and v/la today responses and stuff tomorrow prolly

 

[Death Mountain]

More from my read:

• #417: Xastrn's analysis of soup's #42 sells me on Xastrn town.

• #425: Care to explain? Is that a tell for soup? If yes, evidence?

• #430: Not understanding last part, the one about the question if he can kill ¿? Also, has soup lied before in the form of a fake V/LA?

• #437: Don't like the base of Zen's suspicion on Xastrn for his town read on Sokr based on 1 post meanwhile he put other players as inactive. Seems like it's Zen's small horse battle that won't let go:

- First, that Xastrn made an exception and gave more value to content than quantity in the case of Sokr: that's not really scummy. Does it deserve some heat? Probably. Be called scummy for that? Hold on there!

- Second, it's just an initial read of Xastrn; if he would keep it for a prolonged time, still based only on that single post, things would change of course. It's ok to inquire him for his read(s), but when people go as far as to call him scummy for that initial read things change.

• ugh, #440 seems sound. Let me check Zen a bit further

• #444: Why is Sokr using the same wording as Zen (edging)? In a way, it's "too blatant", so I'm going with Zen scum =/= Sokr scum

• #493: dabuz being mega-ninja while soup death was being executed. No postures? No what-happens-if-soup-is-town-or-scum? He did some questions earlier D1; did he follow any? Seriously dabuz is being me when I'm scum

Also, if anything, scummers are usually a lot more silent during flips, so, looking at the opposite, all this makes me feel even better with FML and Xastrn, despite he triggered the gun.

• Ryu didn't do anything D1; following his meta that's a bad thing

• Also, Zen went silent after separating from soup (other than asking something about Raz' weapon(s)); not a good sign

• #517: As per usual, explain

• #530: Good pressure from Kary on Zen; leads me to believe they're not both scum (check how that goes though). If they aren't, and considering 3 scum, it'd be dabuz, one of Kary/Zen, and one of Ryu/Kantrip.

• #539: Doing a re-read on Kantrip. Something about this post bothers me, and it's his claim that from page 1 he got a town read on soup. Checking in reverse, from last pages to first ones. He seems short-sighted, basically tunneling Xastrn; not getting involved with much players.

-#436: If he already has a strong town read on soup and scum read on Xastrn, what does he have to check on Xastrn's new case on soup? Wouldn't it be time to start working with people and convince them of his reads, and/or throw stances on other players, and/or just yell to move the discussion more towards Xastrn and less from soup, ...? Overall, this statement is weird considering both of his reads on soup and Xastrn look solid at this point

-#366: His main points on Xastrn. He is pretty much his 1st scum pick by far

-#348: Says he has no leads other than Xastrn. For the rest of D1 basically no one else is mentioned by Kantrip, besides Xastrn, soup, in term of reads. (Also, he doesn't explain further the reads mentioned in this post)

-#84 & #85: Kantrip's first posts in the game; from here he claims his town read on soup, which keeps 'till the end. Key here is to see how justified is his (strong) town read on soup: Kantrip talks quite a lot about "expected behaviors" regarding the kill mechanic; I like that he attempts to throw some reads though. As I see it, Kantrip's town read on soup is based on meta and that he sees soup's contradiction as something minor, probably poor choice of wording, and not-scummy. imo it would justify a town lean.

Back to #366:

I don't share the reasons, but I'm not seeing bad intentions from Kantrip in his case against Xastrn. After reading this, I don't feel as bad as at the beginning of all this write-up regarding Kantrip.

---

In conclusion, I'm just still leaving Kantrip in the null pile for now, with low priority. Felt a bad vibe reading his #539, did a full check of his D1, and things went from bad to kinda better. There is still the tunneling, which makes me keep him null. Wouldn't kill.

• #556: mmm that claim puts me on the fence; I've yet to think about the implications, and if anything, this just makes me want to kill dabuz in 1st place more than anyone else

• #576: Seriously? In fact, it makes sense as a balance measure in order to prevent scum from alpha'ing every single day

• #585: Ehrm... detail?

• #596: Zen scum =/= Kary scum solidified. Good observation by Kary btw. Note though that, if I'm seeing it right, Zen said he did it after seeing just soup separating, without including Raziek's shot. That'd give a bigger time frame to Zen, which just makes the whole issue look worse for him.

• #629: "If I read this right, that means any broken weapon will be publicly declared. Thats means there was an unbreakable weapon in the NKs. Xast killed Soup AFTER Soup declared he had the Falchion (which is an unbreakable weapon), Xast had a 180 that went from not wanting Soup dead to killing him in another posts 5 minutes later."

Underlined: Mega-fallacy. It only means that the weapon used in the NK didn't break. Could break after a second use. Or maybe the killer used another unbreakable weapon. Or maybe scum doesn't make the NKills with weapons, like day-kills are done. Several possibilities; why is dabuz considering only the option which makes Xastrn look the worst? Ah yeah because dabuz is scum

• #629 again: Last, mini-sized part: biased contrasts on the motives for Xastrn taking the shoot, giving excessive value to the weapons issue. Scummy imo, because the weak town-motivation he's presenting is easily dismissable with the basic, strong town-motivation of Xastrn simply wanting to kill scum, without caring about the much-less-important-compared-to-kill-scum weapons issue.

 

[Kantrip]

After a lot of thinking, I just can't look past FML's behaviour in his conversation with Xastrn, and everything they've been saying since then.

I see absolutely no way they can possibly be town with the manipulation in there, and the fact that the fb convo log didn't move them, and how they came up with an agreement to protect Xastrn then tossed them aside when people in-thread were ready to kill them. FML's reasoning was that they "couldn't protect him" from the mobs of people at his door but the truth of the matter is, FML could have protected him, no problem.

I am, I hate to say it, in agreement with Xastrn and his plan to have Kary shoot FML. If Kary refuses... I'll do it myself.

 

[Dabuz]

Not my meta, Dabuz when he replaced out after the DDoS on day 2. People quoted his day 1 and called it scummy for what you are saying.

FML called it scum that game.

You quoted it, you skewed it here, it's wrong because it's not different to here,

I'd also like to add that FML ended up being scum that game. DM, is there any other slot you're considering to shoot today?

I don't have to quote it. Pure logic works fine.

1. Our (unfair?) facebook chat log dump should have been a complete 100% clear. Even Red Ryu, our biggest opponent, has cleared us based on it. Anyone rational would think a timestamped conversation that was 2 hours long, followed by more conversation the following day, would clear us.
2. FML's response was to wobble and say I dunno 60-40 scum I'd say (even in public).
3. FML suggested we swing everything to Kary.
4. We agreed.
5. Within hours, Potassium started to swing attention to Kary, indicating that he likely had received info from FML to do so.
6. FML then separates from us saying the mob wants us and he won't stop them from killing us, despite the fact that the heat had dropped on us a little bit.

In summary:

FML knew we were town.
FML separated from us, allowing for the possibility of us getting killed, when he could have simply said we convinced him and/or focused on other targets that he preferred: Kary, for example.

Read the whole thing and the one thing I need to see eludes me, where did FML say he saw the role pm and thinks you are town for that?

The case is held together by whether or not FML confirmed to seeing the role pm stuff.