Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

[#HBC | Kary]

Ran how does Zen scum fit into your other reads?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Unsure what kind of purpose kantrips **** has.
Or how he is sure grima is evrn in the game.

 

[ranmaru]

It's like this.

Ryu/Zen/Dabuz scum, FML null and I want to throw bricks at his face for hating me for every little thing.

That's how it fits. I just don't have concrete things to show as I need time for that.

 

[Kantrip]

Having Zen publicly trade with Xastrn toMorrow will alleviate some of my fears, and take up both of their actions. Xastrn has already used his weapon. You and Ran are the other two slots I don't like, Kary. I want you to take the shot.

 

[Kantrip]

Unsure what kind of purpose kantrips **** has.
Or how he is sure grima is evrn in the game.

I'm not and I'm being distracting. Zen isn't my focus right now but every time I see him or Xastrn call the other confirmed town I get mad.

What I'm worried about right now is Kary and Ran.

 

[Kantrip]

It's like this.

Ryu/Zen/Dabuz scum, FML null and I want to throw bricks at his face for hating me for every little thing.

That's how it fits. I just don't have concrete things to show as I need time for that.

Zen scum and not Xastrn? Or do agree with people who say they have to be the same alignment?

 

[Kantrip]

Ran are Steel Axes your weapon?

Can you use any others?

 

[ranmaru]

What I'm worried about right now is Kary and Ran.

If you are worried about me, state your qualms and I'll respond. Or at least say what you think about my and zen's interaction. You are a town read to me but you can't just sit idly by and say "Yeah Ran is the direction because everyone agrees with it".

I'm currently feeling misunderstood here.

 

[ranmaru]

Zen scum and not Xastrn? Or do agree with people who say they have to be the same alignment?

Remember I said that I think it's possible one is scum and the other isn't. And yeah, if zen flipped scum I would think Xast to be town.

 

[Kantrip]

If you are worried about me, state your qualms and I'll respond. Or at least say what you think about my and zen's interaction. You are a town read to me but you can't just sit idly by and say "Yeah Ran is the direction because everyone agrees with it".

I'm currently feeling misunderstood here.

I'm asking you questions right now and not at all set on you being the direction.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran are Steel Axes your weapon?

Can you use any others?

Steel axe and no other.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I'm not and I'm being distracting. Zen isn't my focus right now but every time I see him or Xastrn call the other confirmed town I get mad.

What I'm worried about right now is Kary and Ran.

We agree then

 

[ranmaru]

I'm asking you questions right now and not at all set on you being the direction.

Yeah but I don't think my role is what is giving you a concern, amirite?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Would really really like to have Kary make toDay's shot. Forgot he hasn't used his action.

Why does it matter that I take the shot? Are you just hoping that I end up without a weapon to use?

I would rather not put Kary in the protective position because I specifically don't like him and know for a fact he won't be Night Killed since there are people willing to kill him. Maybe not many, but it's a thing so scum won't go for him. I would much rather he takes toDay's shot.

Now, you don't know for a fact anything about Night Kills, right?

And if you're so confident I'm not going to die, then it doesn't matter if I'm protected, right?

If Kary switches spots with you rather than taking toDay's shot, I shoot you.

What the **** is this? So you think that I'm scum with Zen now?

:/

 

[Kantrip]

Remember I said that I think it's possible one is scum and the other isn't. And yeah, if zen flipped scum I would think Xast to be town.

Mmmm.

I am very solid on the fact that Xastrn and Zen are NOT both scum. I do not think they are a scumteam, as that would involve Circus to have linked their safe-claims from the start, and that is ******* modding to force the scum to connect themselves to each other by safe-claims. Either they are both town, or only one is scum. This means at least one of them legitimately believes that their corresponding roles make them counterparts and, as a result, almost confirmed town to each other. Between the two of them, I would buy Xastrn believing this so whole-heartedly over Zen buying it (I don't see Zen as that trusting, but maybe I'm wrong). I may have been wrongly tunneling Xastrn all this time, and they may, in fact, be town.

 

[ranmaru]

I'll give more concrete thoughts on Zen/Ryu/Dabuz (mostly zen ryu) later tonight. I have martial arts soon.

I also will have Rajam hydraing with me. He's catching up. :D

 

[Xastrn]

Having Zen publicly trade with Xastrn toMorrow will alleviate some of my fears, and take up both of their actions. Xastrn has already used his weapon. You and Ran are the other two slots I don't like, Kary. I want you to take the shot.

Are you saying you don't think I'm scum anymore?

Also, I responded to your objections about Zen/Xastrn being the same alignment. I'd love it if you responded instead of just hopping off to other players. Makes it look like you don't have an answer to a well-reasoned argument so you're trying to ignore it. (i.e. scumbuckets)

Also also, why are you so curious in what weapons people have?

 

[Kantrip]

Why does it matter that I take the shot? Are you just hoping that I end up without a weapon to use?



Now, you don't know for a fact anything about Night Kills, right?

And if you're so confident I'm not going to die, then it doesn't matter if I'm protected, right?



What the **** is this? So you think that I'm scum with Zen now?

:/

That is exactly what I hope. If Ran flips scum, it won't be a problem because we hit scum. But if Ran is town, I want it to be you taking the shot because you're basically confirmed scum to me at that point. As it stands now I'm already trying to decide between the two of you. Being able to choose both of you in a way, is a small victory I'll gladly take.

 

[Kantrip]

Are you saying you don't think I'm scum anymore?

Also, I responded to your objections about Zen/Xastrn being the same alignment. I'd love it if you responded instead of just hopping off to other players. Makes it look like you don't have an answer to a well-reasoned argument so you're trying to ignore it. (i.e. scumbuckets)

Also also, why are you so curious in what weapons people have?

No, I don't. I think I ninja'd you
I'll look for that response again and get back to you on it.
Ties into my setup speculation. I asked Zen for a different reason than I asked Ran. For Ran it's more that if he dies we want to know what his killer inherited.

 

[ranmaru]

Either they are both town, or only one is scum.

I agree with the latter. It's more of "Zen seems much more malicious than Xastrn" thing. Zen was a bit quiet, but has only really GOTTEN a case when I got here. I still want your thoughts on the case though, and where you are going with your questions.

Now I'm out.

DIPPPPP

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So you seriously think that Xast is town, but I as scum have decided to call him town all game. Why would I do that.

And you think I'm scum for fence sitting, when if I was scum, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just push a weak slot like Ran, or dabuz, or Sokr. Why would I sit on my hands as scum, when I could probably get any of them killed, no problem.

Ok thanks bye.

 

[Kantrip]

Are you talking about this post you responded to Sokr with?

Basically this comes down to good game design.

The mod sits down to build a game themed on Fire Emblem, and sees that there is an Odd Rhythm and Even Rhythm power in the game. He knows that mafia runs on a daily cycle and that some mods give players powers that only work on odd or even numbered days. This makes the Rhythm powers fit perfectly into a game of mafia. Because this is a BiM game, his most logical choice is to make the odd and even number affect daykills.

Now, he has a choice. Does he make the roles 2 townies, 2 scum, or town/scum? Two townies makes sense because it creates two players who compliment each other and will naturally seek each other out during the day. The pair-up mechanic encourages us to pair with the opposite day person, so we can always be protecting a town kill. Two scum makes sense because it forces certain scum to make kills on certain days. This would help balance some of the swing of BiM by limiting when scum can and cannot daykill. These are the two most logical and well-designed options.

Town/scum, meanwhile, creates a bit of a ******* mod scenario. The townie will see his has an Odd or Even Rhythmed character and immediately think he must have a counterpart out there in town. The scum will see his role and/or fake claim, see that none of his scummates have the same, and assume there is a townie out there looking for a partner. This creates a situation where the scum's fake claim not only provides a way to hide the fact he's scum, but actively deceives the town player about the design of the game in general.

Dastrn and I (and Zen too) have chosen to trust that Circus wouldn't screw with our heads by introducing a bit of *******y into an already swingy setup. That's why we say we must either both be town or both be scum.

As far as why we think people should believe we are town? The added power of being able to end the Day by attacking on the wrong day is just too OP for scum to have. No lynches almost always work in scum's favor, and allowing them to create a no-lynch without even breaking a weapon would be totally overpowered.

(Wi-Fi is back!)

This is getting into way too much WIFOM for me to entertain.

 

[Xivii]

Ran will do later.
FML do you not think it's odd that Kantrip has been playing up how we was going to kill and is avoiding it? Him and Sokr are both refusing to attack. Is this not odd to you?

 

[Kantrip]

So you seriously think that Xast is town, but I as scum have decided to call him town all game. Why would I do that.

And you think I'm scum for fence sitting, when if I was scum, it would be the easiest thing in the world to just push a weak slot like Ran, or dabuz, or Sokr. Why would I sit on my hands as scum, when I could probably get any of them killed, no problem.

Ok thanks bye.

Are you kidding me? Xast town has always made the possibility of you scum more likely. I even said in my case that by mentioning and maintaining your townread on Xastrn (who was very likely to die without your help, remember), you could be doing what you did with soup all over again, where you can have a retrospect correct read.

 

[Kantrip]

Ran will do later.
FML do you not think it's odd that Kantrip has been playing up how we was going to kill and is avoiding it? Him and Sokr are both refusing to attack. Is this not odd to you?

Why are you trying to appeal to FML and influence his answer? Try asking a straight question rather than trying to guide him into thinking I'm scummy.

Kary, you should claim your class.

 

[Xastrn]

Ninja'd

@Potato: Trying to help you along to believing both Zen and I are town: Zen was the one who brought up the power to end the Day without a kill. Do you think scum would voluntarily offer this information if they couldn't back up the claim? Do you agree that if scum COULD back up this claim, that it would be a totally OP power to put in scum hands? Wouldn't that imply that Zen is town?

It sounds like you still aren't completely sold on our mechanics analysis. I get that a lot of people don't LIKE it, but do you think our reasoning is faulty? Do you disagree that its at the very least more LIKELY that Circus would design the game without a misdirection of a town/scum pairing?

 

[Kantrip]

Also when did I play up that I was going to shoot? I want Sokr to separate from me so I had the option to, and the threat was out there, but when I realized Kary could do it I thought that better.

I will shoot Kary if he refuses though

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Listen.

Why would I want to defend him. How does that help me, as scum? No-one is going to say, 'Oh Kary must be town, he was right about this read'.

You think my game plan, as scum, is to just defend as many townies as I can?

 

[Kantrip]

Ninja'd

@Potato: Trying to help you along to believing both Zen and I are town: Zen was the one who brought up the power to end the Day without a kill. Do you think scum would voluntarily offer this information if they couldn't back up the claim? Do you agree that if scum COULD back up this claim, that it would be a totally OP power to put in scum hands? Wouldn't that imply that Zen is town?

It sounds like you still aren't completely sold on our mechanics analysis. I get that a lot of people don't LIKE it, but do you think our reasoning is faulty? Do you disagree that its at the very least more LIKELY that Circus would design the game without a misdirection of a town/scum pairing?

I think that Zen could possibly not have the ability to end the Day. Or maybe he does, but it's 1-shot. The knowledge of the ability definitely suggests one of two things:

1. That he has your counterpart role and is town
2. That his safe-claim is your counterpart role and he is scum

That's not what matters to me right now, though. I am content with having him trade his weapon to you toMorrow, and I am focusing on Ran/Kary right now.

Could you please comment on Ran/Kary as well?

 

[Xivii]

"Wish Xast wasn't hiding behind FML, Ryu isn't the only one who wants to shoot"
"FML seperate from Xast, Sork separate from me"

 

[Kantrip]

Listen.

Why would I want to defend him. How does that help me, as scum? No-one is going to say, 'Oh Kary must be town, he was right about this read'.

You think my game plan, as scum, is to just defend as many townies as I can?

That was my point though. You didn't defend soup and you're not defending Xastrn. You have even acknowledged you are neutral to them dying and that you can't present it. I'm sure you thought Xastrn would die without your help, and you would get townpoints for being one of the only people to townread him.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

That is exactly what I hope. If Ran flips scum, it won't be a problem because we hit scum. But if Ran is town, I want it to be you taking the shot because you're basically confirmed scum to me at that point. As it stands now I'm already trying to decide between the two of you. Being able to choose both of you in a way, is a small victory I'll gladly take.

Also, this. You're going to shoot me, if I don't shoot Ran. But if I Switch with Zen, you're going to shoot Zen?

How does that even help you.

 

[Kantrip]

"Wish Xast wasn't hiding behind FML, Ryu isn't the only one who wants to shoot"
"FML seperate from Xast, Sork separate from me"

That's only the threat of a shot. Never did I outright say I was going to shoot. And even if I did, actions speak louder than words. If I say I'm going to shoot and don't, I probably do all that intentionally, and there are town reasons to do so.

Also you might want to read that post again.

 

[Kantrip]

Also, this. You're going to shoot me, if I don't shoot Ran. But if I Switch with Zen, you're going to shoot Zen?

How does that even help you.

Because Zen controls the switching, and if he cares more about his own life than his own there is a big problem.

(His alignment is the only one he knows for sure, he should not be sacrificing himself for you unless you're scum mates)

 

[Xivii]

You've been implying it all day lol.

 

[Kantrip]

Should be if he cares more about your life than his own*

 

[Xivii]

Because Zen controls the switching, and if he cares more about his own life than his own there is a big problem.

(His alignment is the only one he knows for sure, he should not be sacrificing himself for you unless you're scum mates)

No I don't? Kary is up front.

 

[Kantrip]

You've been implying it all day lol.

Welcoming to using a tool at my disposal to my advantage.

But now I'm actually going to shoot Kary.

Kary claim your class.

 

[Xastrn]

More Ninjas!

@Potato: I don't think Kary is the play today. I recall a few people in thread pointing out that Kary tends to get in loud arguments during mafia as town, which is exactly what happened at the beginning of the Day. Keep in mind that SEVERAL players were tunneling us at the beginning of the game, and Kary was mostly pissed that Dastrn wasn't answering his questions fast enough. Kary was among the first tunnelers to back off and say he didn't want us dead, which was unnecessary when RR and you were still chomping at the bit for us to hang. Scum didn't really have any reason to slow down what appeared to be an easy lynch.

You've been setting up a false dichotomy between us and Kary for awhile now, and I don't see why it's any more valid than an RR/Xastrn or Potassium/Xastrn dichotomoy. All of you tunneled us today. I don't see why Kary deserve special treatment in that regard. If you were to kill Kary and he flipped scum, that wouldn't make us town. And you killed Kary and he flipped town, that wouldn't make us scum.

Allowing town to get stuck in that kind of thinking just leads to more mislynches and a win for scum.

 

[Kantrip]

No I don't? Kary is up front.

Oh yeah, my bad.

I was confused. You only said that you would rather have Kary switch with you and my shoot you than let Kary shoot.

This still doesn't make any sense.