Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

[Xivii]

[collapse=Zen #1202]

Scum
Ran: Grimy as hell. I feel like he is trying to keep the appearance of his town meta (posting a lot), but I don't feel like he is actually trying to read into anything. I don't expect town ran to just ignore posts which he has clearly been doing. Such as when he first came in and ignored the entire page because he felt it was just "me defending against stuff". If that were the case, why ignore it??? Why would he not read into it?

It seems like you're skimming hard core and not really being analytic. Like it doesn't seem like you're trying to find out anyone's alignment, but rather are just sticking to the reads you started out with. As I said in the quote above, you completely ignored a page once day 2 started until I told you to go back and actually read it. And you've shown to do this a second time as well:

True. I haven't. I didn't even notice a Kary case from you. :s Especially your Xastrn case, as I was catching up and would read it later. I'll read them and give thoughts once I do.

I townread Kantrip, Kary, FML, that's about it. What I mean by 'my reads not likely changing' is I would narrow it down to the nulls. Obviously I want to keep my townreads, but I am willing to re-assess them if I have to. I don't think this is the time for that, yet I'll look at your cases still.

[/collapse]

I was catching up. Two cases from someone I townread, isn't something of interest to me when I want to focus more on things I find suspicious. Consider I'd rather get into the game to play, rather than read all of the damn cases and especially the walls. I play this way all the time. I look for what's important. I didn't think you actually posted anything interesting for me to read further into. I wanted to talk reads, but what you said wasn't much. I don't see how this is telling. This is not the first time I have skimmed. (Nor the last, especially when catching up)

Day one of D2 you had already caught up as shown by your pre-death read posts. So not being caught up isn't the issue. It was then when you were posting without reading the other things that were going on around you. I had to direct you to do so. As for day three of D2, I'll give you that yesterday you were catching up after the irl night, but what bugs me is that what your defense here is completely contradictory to the belief you've shown:

Now, I'm wondering. Why do you keep posting when you still have to catch up post wise? I think it clutters the thread when there are more important matters (your reads). It's hard for people to really not talk about you when you haven't caught up yet when it comes to reads and your direction. When I think 'direction' I think who you think is scum today, not why scum decided to kill who they may have killed. I'm also wondering how you are progressing with re-reading (Dabuz especially, since you are doing that first). I'm being patient, but I am still curious at how you are doing this.

#877

You call Xastrn out for the exact same reasoning you're defending your self with here.

[collapse=Zen #1202]Your dabuz stuff is so weak man. Both Ruy and FML agree with this. You're basing your read completely on meta that doesn't line up which Ruy already went into. And you're ignoring your other "strong" scum read (Sokr) because you "trust Kantrip's read". That's not progressive at all and is a complete cop out.[/collapse]

Underlined, I don't see how or why you put this in. This doesn't help support your point, because Ryu hasn't given any evidence, nor has FML.

You can't base this on anything, because neither you nor Ryu can back it up with actual evidence. You are also very wrong when it comes to my read on him, it's not just meta, but his play here that concerns me, and I have shown that. I think the problem is no one is looking at him as hard as I am. "Oh, his play is fine" is all I get. You have a problem with a guy trying to talk more about Dabuz, but when Dabuz isn't even trying to focus on his scumread, oh he's just fine. Come on now.

It does support my point because Three people disagree with your supposed meta which is what you're using for your accusation. And no, you haven't shown it, I asked you about it yesterday and all you gave me was this: #1080, #1081.

Also, look at this:

I agree with you on sokr and dabuz, disagree with xastrn. Did you read my reasoning?

You say what I say is weak on Dabuz, but it's basically the same thing as I put in my catch up. This is interesting to me, because it shows that you actually are trying to **** on me when the time is right, instead of actually explain why you think my dabuz reasoning is weak and suspicious, and you don't actually say you agree with it here. Yet you don't, and you simply agree with Ryu, who also has just disagreed without really explaining why. I have shown the evidence. You can't just say "Yeah it's exactly the same" when I see it differently, and have SHOWN IT to be different.

I'm willing to re-evaluate Sokr if Kantrip can read him very well. He's currently on the backburner for now. I am also developing other reads too. I think it's wrong for you to say that I am not. For example, you. I ask for you to talk reads with me, but you tell me "later" and only come back with this. You are doing much less than I am. This is the only action here that I can 'read' from. It's also interesting for you to tell me you find my case on Dabuz weak when you yourself had agreed with my initial scumread on him. I'll give an updated reads list later on, including you, sokr, ryu, and fml. (Kantrip, I will also look into your cases on kary/xastrn and include those thoughts in there too) And guess what, I'm still waiting on reads from Xastrn, who has rl stuff to contend to.

Let's look at this chronologically,

-You post saying dabuz hasn't done much
-I agree
-dabuz picks it up (his xast posting)
-you call it scummy for having a scum read on xast
-dabuz picks it up more
-You stick to your original reasoning

 

[Xivii]

Dammit accidentally hit post before the end:

Let's look at this chronologically,

-You post saying dabuz hasn't done much
-I agree
-dabuz picks it up (his xast posting)
-you call it scummy for having a scum read on xast
-dabuz picks it up more (his kantrip xast posting)
-You stick to your original reasoning (The xast dabuz connection disappears?)

You see what I mean? Your READ is not dependent on the evidence, your evidence is dependent on the read. You keep making up new reasoning for it and sticking to it.

 

[Kantrip]

@Ran: All the posts you made when you first replaced in... when did you write those?

 

[Xastrn]

You're not getting the part where you guys have NO confirmation that you even have role counterparts.

You ever heard of the Neighbour role? You get private communication with another player but your alignments are not confirmed to each other? You gonna say that having one town and one scum neighbour is ******* modding? Or is there some arbitrary caveat that makes my example different than what's going on here? You and Zen don't have private communication or the hint that the other even exists, all you have is the same passive ability, just on different Days. Hell, you don't even know if you have THAT because safe-claims exist! You do know what a safe-claim is, right?

Potassium, I believe we've already stated that people being disrespectful doesn't fly with us. I'll answer your question anyways.

Yes, we know what neighbors are. We also know what Masons are. And paranoid gun owners. And insane docs. And princesses. And any number of other common roles.

Zen compared our pairing to being some kind of weak Masonry. You are comparing it to neighbors. I'll go ahead and talk game design, even though Red Ryu hates it, because people keep challenging us on this point.

Both Masons and Neighbors exist in order to provide town and scum with weak informational roles. They are similar in function, but vastly different in execution. Masons are commonly told that their partner is town. This provides town with two confirmed townies from the start of the game, and allows the paired players to run gambits to catch scum so long as they keep their Masonry secret. Many mods consider Masons to be about as effective to town as a full cop. In order to weaken this, some masons are not told whether their partner is town or not. While nine times out of 10 this is still the case, it creates some sense of doubt in the Mason pairing which weakens the role.

Neighbors, on the other hand, are a complete toss up. Townies have no way of knowing whether or not their Neighbor is scum, they simply get to communicate privately. This makes Neighbors a little swingy in execution, as they can be used for both town and scum benefit.

THIS game, meanwhile, already has a neighboring system in place. Players are given the choice of who to pair up with, creating temporary neighboring situations. Neither side can really know if the other person is scum or not, but they can talk and gather information.

BiM games traditionally have more than one cop in order to make up for the extreme swing of the setup. Town need informational roles in order to make better informed kills, because this is a game that tempts people to make uninformed kills more freely. Just look at how Soup tried to Han Solo yesterDay, followed by Raz killing in retaliation, followed by me stealing the kill, followed by RR trying to quickkill us toDay. This is a swingy setup that can snowball into disaster for town. We need informational roles to clear townies and prevent these situations from happening.

Now, onto Zen and our roles. We know for a fact that two players received role PMs (fake or otherwise) describing the Odd/Even mechanic. There's an implied pairing within the setup of this design. We also know that pairing up allows for special communication between all players, meaning that adding genuine Masons into the game wouldn't quite fit with the design already in place. That's why Zen described our paired roles as "weak Masons." Our roles are designed to go together. They're designed to seek each other out. It's the most logical choice in the world. We may not be told that our counterpart is town, but in true Mason fashion, I think 9 times out of 10, we can rely on that being the case. I think this is even MORE likely thanks to the ability to end Day phases without a kill.

Circus's choice to create on Odd/Even Rhythm pairing isn't just a logical game design choice. It's a DAMN GOOD ONE. It's clever, well thought-out, and provides town with information in a largely swing-heavy setup.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

@Mod: when is deadline ?

 

[Xastrn]

Day 2 begins! Deadline is set for Friday, November 8th, at 7:00pm EST.

[color=98fb98]Not until the end of the week. We've got plenty of time.[/color]

 

[Sokr]

Zen, have you talked about your thoughts on the possibility of you and xast being town/scum? If not, talk to me.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

He's on the backburner. I'll re-read him and give my further developed read on him.

Who do you want to shoot toDay, then? How confident are you?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Same question for Kantrip and Sokr, actually:

Who do you want to shoot toDay, then? How confident are you?

 

[Xivii]

@Sokr​

#1203​

 

[Xivii]

Ran the main thing that I don't like about your play is that you're not putting in the effort to develop reads on people. Your excuse is that you yourself were waiting for other people to give reads. But man come on with this:

Two cases from someone I townread, isn't something of interest to me when I want to focus more on things I find suspicious.

How in the actual duck does you town reading Kantrip make his cases not of interest???? This should be the exact opposite. You should be wanting to read the cases on people. Especially when you said yourself that you had a scum lean, Xastrn, on one of the people he made a case on.

And since you've had a null read on me wouldn't it make sense to read the interaction between his harping on me at the start of the day? And not just passing it off as not of interest.

Zεη said: ↑

I can't. Read through this last page. You're posting but not reading >.>​

If it's on the last page than yeah. I thought it was more you defending yourself and other interactions. >_> I'll go read your posts.

​

 

[Sokr]

Thanks Zen.

Xastrn, why did you clarify dragonstones?

Kary, who would I shoot? Probably Ran. I'm liking Zen's case against him and I'm still trying to sort things out wrt reads on other people.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Kantrip or kary need to shoot ran imo, or kantrip shoukd shoot kary

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip or kary need to shoot ran imo, or kantrip shoukd shoot kary

Would really really like to have Kary make toDay's shot. Forgot he hasn't used his action.

I take it you agree with Zen's case?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I like it yea.

 

[Kantrip]

What needs to happen toDay:

Kary shoots Ran

What needs to happen toMorrow:

Kary separates from Zen
FML separates from Xastrn
Zen trades Beaststone to Xastrn
Xastrn trades Beaststone back to Zen
I pair with FML

 

[Xivii]

What needs to happen toDay:

Kary shoots Ran

What needs to happen toMorrow:

Kary separates from Zen
FML separates from Xastrn
Zen trades Beaststone to Xastrn
Xastrn trades Beaststone back to Zen
I pair with FML

I think Kary should switch with me today. Scum aren't going to kill me seeing as I can't kill tomorrow. Would rather have him the protective slot. And it will also put me in the position to trade tomorrow.

 

[ranmaru]

Day one of D2 you had already caught up as shown by your pre-death read posts. So not being caught up isn't the issue. It was then when you were posting without reading the other things that were going on around you. I had to direct you to do so. As for day three of D2, I'll give you that yesterday you were catching up after the irl night, but what bugs me is that what your defense here is completely contradictory to the belief you've shown:
#877You call Xastrn out for the exact same reasoning you're defending your self with here.

I think this is more of an annoyance rather than a tell. It's as simple as "Ran, you skimmed >_>" I always do that when catching up. Again, let me re-iterate this statement. I catch up, and then the new pages aren't as interesting to me, because I just want to talk first and just get a stream of consciousness flowing.

On that, he was obviously still catching up. So instead of always popping up in thread, finish catching up so people can understand your directions better. That doesn't relate to your point, which is simply skimming. I always skim. I already told you that I looked through it, why the hell would I waste my time looking further unless 1) Someone said "There is something important there or 2) I just got interested in re-reading.

It does support my point because Three people disagree with your supposed meta which is what you're using for your accusation. And no, you haven't shown it, I asked you about it yesterday and all you gave me was this: #1080, #1081.

There you go! You just defeated your own point. Thanks. Seriously though, I did show you. What the hell do you think is my response, that you didn't even respond to anyways? Those three people didn't actually give evidence, and I am always willing to give MORE if needed to clarify. I think this also comes down to a misunderstanding.

Let's look at this chronologically,

-dabuz picks it up more

Let's look at this specifically. You say you agree with my suspicion, but find it odd that he 'picks it up' and I don't change my read. Should I? I have reasons for not changing my read. Right now he's just re-reading, he isn't really pushing on Xast when he found some mechanic thing that might be suspicious to him.

Anyways, obviously if scum have played bad, they would try to 'pick up' their play, so I say "Well I see he may be trying to get into the game more so he isn't viewed as scum", but I don't say that is the reason for keeping my scumread on him. I'm just not relieved of my concern.

This is why I asked Dabuz about why he is re-reading Kantrip.

 

[Kantrip]

I would rather not put Kary in the protective position because I specifically don't like him and know for a fact he won't be Night Killed since there are people willing to kill him. Maybe not many, but it's a thing so scum won't go for him. I would much rather he takes toDay's shot.

 

[Kantrip]

@Ran: All the posts you made when you first replaced in... when did you write those?

ten characters.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ran: All the posts you made when you first replaced in... when did you write those?

Since the start of night time. I had classes and martial arts in between, so I finished it friday morning.

Who do you want to shoot toDay, then? How confident are you?

Dabuz. Very confident. Seeing as how you 'voted' Dabuz yesterday, how do you feel about Dabuz right now?

 

[Kantrip]

Since the start of night time. I had classes and martial arts in between, so I finished it friday morning.





Dabuz. Very confident. Seeing as how you 'voted' Dabuz yesterday, how do you feel about Dabuz right now?

I forget, did you replace in before Night phase?

 

[Xivii]

I would rather not put Kary in the protective position because I specifically don't like him and know for a fact he won't be Night Killed since there are people willing to kill him. Maybe not many, but it's a thing so scum won't go for him. I would much rather he takes toDay's shot.

Nah don't like.

 

[Kantrip]

Has Xastrn commented on the Ran case yet?

 

[ranmaru]

I forget, did you replace in before Night phase?

I did. I got replaced in around 4:00 PM I believe. But night time happened (when I got home), and I was like DANG IT. So I was mad a quickshot happened, and I used that motivation to start catching up RIGHT THAT MOMENT.

 

[Kantrip]

Nah don't like.

If Kary switches spots with you rather than taking toDay's shot, I shoot you.

 

[Xivii]

Ran I'm sticking to my read on you. What is your read on me?

 

[Xivii]

If Kary switches spots with you rather than taking toDay's shot, I shoot you.

I like this better than Kary shooting.

 

[Xivii]

I WANT you to shoot. Both you and Sokr now have backed down from shooting, Janky as duck.

 

[Kantrip]

I like this better than Kary shooting.

You do realize that makes Kary vulnerable at Night too, right? Without an active unit to support, he wouldn't be safe anymore.

And I'm serious.

And if Kary refuses to take the shot without switching with you, I shoot him.

Ran, what class are you?

 

[ranmaru]

Ran the main thing that I don't like about your play is that you're not putting in the effort to develop reads on people. Your excuse is that you yourself were waiting for other people to give reads. But man come on with this:
How in the actual duck does you town reading Kantrip make his cases not of interest???? This should be the exact opposite. You should be wanting to read the cases on people. Especially when you said yourself that you had a scum lean, Xastrn, on one of the people he made a case on.

And since you've had a null read on me wouldn't it make sense to read the interaction between his harping on me at the start of the day? And not just passing it off as not of interest.

I am putting in the effort. Time, dude. Frickin time. I have much less of it, and I'm on borrowed time right now. When I saw a BIG LONG CASE by Kantrip, I was like "Yeah, skip for later, catching up". That's IT. There is no "YOU SHOULD HAVE" there. Also keep in mind from the beginning, I was going to focus on my other reads, but I could only really focus on Dabuz. Look at this quote:

"Xastrn is a tough cookie to crack. He posts alot, so I focused on a brief over-view of his play, and I see Kantrip has alot on him which I'll let him focus on."

That's what I said. I still feel that way. I didn't want to read the walls between rake and him, but I only read the beginning to get a feel. Then I just focused on the players I thought were suspicious. That's how it goes in catch up land.

Nope, I was focusing on scumreads. With null reads I'd interact/ask questions and just wait on what the slot does in the future.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran, what class are you?

Wyvern Rider.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran I'm sticking to my read on you. What is your read on me?

Scum.

 

[Xivii]

You do realize that makes Kary vulnerable at Night too, right? Without an active unit to support, he wouldn't be safe anymore.

And I'm serious.

And if Kary refuses to take the shot without switching with you, I shoot him.

Ran, what class are you?

If you do this, you will be acting in an anti-town fashion. Do you agree that Xastrn is now confirmed town seeing as he was able to use dragonstones? And do you agree that I will be confirmed as well upon me trading beaststones? To kill someone that can 100% prove that they are town would be anti-town to the greatest degree of maximum. I will not allow Kary to shoot. You are shooting today, whether it be me or Ran.

 

[Kantrip]

If you do this, you will be acting in an anti-town fashion. Do you agree that Xastrn is now confirmed town seeing as he was able to use dragonstones? And do you agree that I will be confirmed as well upon me trading beaststones? To kill someone that can 100% prove that they are town would be anti-town to the greatest degree of maximum. I will not allow Kary to shoot. You are shooting today, whether it be me or Ran.

What's stopping scum from having those weapons, exactly?

 

[Xivii]

We've gone through this, the only possible way that Xast and I can be scum is if we are scum together or if one of us has a safe claim. Otherwise we would not have known the language/details of each others roles. Xast proved that his isn't a safeclaim when he used his dragonstones. Mine will be proven upon me trading.

 

[Kantrip]

We've gone through this, the only possible way that Xast and I can be scum is if we are scum together or if one of us has a safe claim. Otherwise we would not have known the language/details of each others roles. Xast proved that his isn't a safeclaim when he used his dragonstones. Mine will be proven upon me trading.

The dragonstone and Odd Rhythm can exist without the other.

Proving your weapon does not prove your skill.

 

[ranmaru]

Zen, can you respond to my response. I'm interested in hearing what you say.

 

[Kantrip]

I realize Xastrn has proven to us he is a manakete.

Grima is a manakete.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kantrip WTF