Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia | GAME OVER: Not Equal To The Challenge

[ranmaru]

I talked about it to try and show people it was possible to get something out of it if you do it right. Xast had nothing to do with it
60/40split leaning scum

It's the same damn thing. And back then you were twisting my words too. It's basically "Well I didn't know what role could possibly be tied to this... but I just remembered this skill, that might be tied to it". So yeah, it's the same damn thing.

Reasoning?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Where did Zen claim?

Did he claim Yarne?

http://smashboards.com/threads/fire...ot-from-the-dark.341650/page-18#post-15957236

 

[ranmaru]

You were just entertaining that a vig might have shot ryker. Now you say it is scum. Interesting change of words.

This is also pretty grimy. Like what the heck FML.

 

[Xastrn]

Well I don't remember who else played FE:A, so I thought it was nice to leave there, but whatever. No, it's the same. I never did like that he shot (when it conflicts with his own rules). This simply means there is also a possible scum motivation for it.

Xastrn's reads are taking a while to come up. I say we establish a deadline for him to do so.

The deadline won't rearrange my life. Sorry. I have a terribly important job interview tomorrow, and I can't begin to describe how badly I need this job right now, so here I am getting caught up and trying to put the dabuz case together and keep up with RL obligations and then xatres' wifi goes down at his rich roommate's house and HE can't post either.
I SHOULD be spending all of tonight in Visual Studio working on some likely C# sample programs they will ask me to create on the fly, but instead I'm reading another 200 posts in this game, and trying to work on my dabuz read. So if you'll excuse my insistence, BE PATIENT. I'm working on it, and trying to balance a lot of things on my shoulders at once.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

How is that grimy when you changed how you were describing the event from a town related role to a scum related one?
The reasonjng is in rakes post quiting ryus case. Im not gonna circle jerk with you right now ran.

 

[Xastrn]

Potassium, can you explain how you knew it was Yarne? I'm not accusing you of anything other than knowing the FE world. What do you know about yarne that made you guess that?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Ebwop-Like tk change the explanation behind that to sometbi.g completely different means you were thinking about something completely different while making those posts and my posts simply yook the logical implications from your posts and wordi.g and laid it out./done

 

[ranmaru]

How is that grimy when you changed how you were describing the event from a town related role to a scum related one?

It's grimy because you were trying to twist my words, when logically my conclusion was 'raz prolly was vigged'. It's also grimy because you were implying there was scum motivation for me to say that ryker was vigged, when I don't even think alignment goes into saying if ryker got vigged or raz did.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

See my ninja,vigging is town aligned where as you then changed it to scum.

 

[ranmaru]

I never changed it.

 

[ranmaru]

I assumed a vig killed one of them, or ... yeah, vig. Unless scum double killed somehow.
Why? Cuz Ryker. Raz? Prolly vig.

Lime green, notice how I said one. Take in the underlined.

Because [wifom]. We won't ever know why scum decided to kill ryker. Easy to just assume it was because he was ryker and he'd build steam and scum don't want that.

No change. /referree

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Why: Because they were a threat to scum somehow? Who gets richer, scum? If a town vig shot, scum get richer and the vig stays dumb. (<3 vig) Who sinks lower? Obviously town cuz we lost two town.
g.

Because [wifom]. We won't ever know why scum decided to kill ryker. Easy to just assume it was because he was ryker and he'd build steam and scum don't want that.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Emphasis should have been put on "scum decided to kill ryker"

 

[Kantrip]

http://smashboards.com/threads/fire...ot-from-the-dark.341650/page-18#post-15957236

Indeed he did.

Interesting. Thanks Kary.

 

[Kantrip]

Potassium, can you explain how you knew it was Yarne? I'm not accusing you of anything other than knowing the FE world. What do you know about yarne that made you guess that?

Yarne is a Taguel, which is the race that gets the Even Rhythm skill.

 

[ranmaru]

Emphasis should have been put on "scum decided to kill ryker"

My post right before yours just demonstrates that I have been saying that Ryker was mostly killed for being ryker, by scum, and raz prolly by vig. That post is directly answering Xastrn's question. Also notice the if when it comes the vig. Yeah. GG

 

[ranmaru]

Anyways, procrastination time. Anyways, if you disagree, I'm gonna drop it now. I think I have clearly debunked what you were saying there. >_>

 

[Kantrip]

@Zen: What is the name of your weapon?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

mfw this is what we are dragging the day out for

 

[Kantrip]

mfw I have reasons let me ask my questions

 

[Kantrip]

Red Ryu I know you want me to shoot Xastrn dead right now, but what was your opinion of the Kary case again?
Shown below for convenience.

For someone who so doesn't want Xastrn dead, you really aren't trying hard to stop it, nor do I really see you pursuing your own scumreads.

- - -

Even early on, with Kary's interaction with soup, he went on after the huge distraction to conclude "soup might be scum." No commitment to a read, even after all that arguing.

Now, with Xastrn, I see Kary spending a lot of his time bickering with a Xastrn who thinks he is scum, yet he holds on to a townread on Xastrn. However, he isn't making an active effort to try to get people to see what he's seeing, and is instead seeming indifferent to the fact that Xastrn is very close to being shot.

I find that Kary's scumread on Zen, who claimed his Even Rhythm Power before Xastrn claimed Odd Rhythm, is very strange. For Xastrn to be town and Zen to be scum, that would mean that Zen would need to have Xastrn's exact role counterpart as a safe-claim. I know Kary is considering this because he just answered to me that he thinks that could be the case. Otherwise, how would scum-Zen know the caveats of town-Xastrn's role, that he had not claimed yet?

Kary has been asking a lot of questions without follow-up and has been neglecting to pursue his scumreads. I've seen a lot of posts from Kary asking questions to a lot of different slots, but I haven't seen him do anything with their responses (or lack thereof). He doesn't have any solid reads to show for all his "effort", which concerns me.

While I am guilty of doing the same thing, Kary's dwelling on how he knew soup was town after soup's death is indeed scummy, there's no denying that. I fear that Kary is remaining complacent regarding Xastrn's death while keeping a townread on them, just so that he can do this again toMorrow if Xastrn flips town.

My problem with Kary, put simply, is not what he's doing. It's what he's getting out of what he's doing.

I liked his page 1 interaction with soup. It looked TvT to me as an outsider as it reminded me of arguments I have had with soup when we were both town.
I didn't like how Kary didn't even get a read on soup out of all of that, and it became a pointless argument that was a distraction and a waste of space/time.

I like how he's asking lots of people questions.
I don't like how he's not following up on these questions, nor is he getting any solid reads out of them.

I like how he's active.
I don't like how, despite his activity, we don't really know what his stances are because they're so weak or, in some cases, non-existent.

I like how he's been calling Xastrn out on all his bull****, and how I agree with almost everything he says when arguing with Xastrn.
I don't like how he maintains a townread on Xastrn in spite of all this arguing, yet doesn't push this townread, seeming neutral to Xastrn dying.

I have had a consistent scumread on Xastrn all game, and it's gotten stronger and stronger over time, rather than faltering. That said, I could be tunneling on someone who is just super mechanical town. My problems with Kary are a legitimate concern, even though I've liked everything he has had to say all game.

Sokr, either switch or separate. I want to be in front.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I really don't know why people think Raz got vigged, He wouldn't have been my first shot at all.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

mfw I have reasons let me ask my questions

does this help u catch scum.


y/n ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I really don't know why people think Raz got vigged, He wouldn't have been my first shot at all.

I dont even know why it's a topic. Dead is dead

 

[Kantrip]

does this help u catch scum.


y/n ?

Yes.

I really wish we were paired already.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Yes.

I really wish we were paired already.

Random question: Should i consider ran scum again ? I realize i've called him dumbn town but his posts just dont add up to me. Call it a gut feel but it's still almost like he's posting big without the meat in it you know Not exactly a kary fan either

 

[Kantrip]

I've got Ran sitting at null while I try to sort through my mixed feelings in the Zen/Xastrn/Kary pool. I don't know what to make of his play tbh

 

[Kantrip]

Xastrn and Sokr, comment on my Kary case also please.

 

[Xivii]

Beaststones, why?????

 

[Xastrn]

Can someone TL;DR #374?

I thought it was obnoxious that he didn't respect my post enough to read it and then claimed to just skim it.
Scummy. (there was a wave of this behavior 24 hours ago too that felt scummy from some other players, who have since regained their cool and played rationally.)

Your case against RR is activity based :3


Content wise, what do you think about FML? I understand you like post counts, but in all honesty, I feel like if myself or anyone made one lots of one liners for the next 4 pages, you'd be town reading them through the roof.

Teases me a bit in the first line, replying to me saying I'll be mad if anyone pretends my RR case is activity based again. Hence his smile face.
His question on me was one gauging my interest in FML, based on his high volume of activity. It wasn't a very worthwhile question, but I understand where it came from, since people thought that activity was the only thing I cared about. NULL

Not buying this. I forget, did you have any reason to think Raz is scum?

This is his first post of D2. He linked a post we made D1 speculating about scumteams based on soup's flip. Of course, he had the advantage of seeing the flip before reacting. I don't have a read based on this comment. I'd say null, but really, there's nothing to read other than he didn't believe our post, meaning he thought we were likely scum at that point.

Why?

Kary and Pot's #530 and #534 look grimy to me as they are passing the blame despite the fact that Soup made the really idiotic decisions he did under pressure and he got himself killed.

The first sentence in Pot's #539 is pretty much hindsight.

@Ranmaru: Agree about Sokr, especially after his 354 where it looked like he wanted someone who "agrees" with him as an excuse to have a safe push. Also don't like how he didn't answer my question in 364.

Anyway, everyone look at


If I read this right, that means any broken weapon will be publicly declared. Thats means there was an unbreakable weapon in the NKs. Xast killed Soup AFTER Soup declared he had the Falchion (which is an unbreakable weapon), Xast had a 180 that went from not wanting Soup dead to killing him in another posts 5 minutes later.

This was his reasoning:



I can't recall Xast saying he has a scum read on Raz so that suspicion is grimy and as others have pointed out before, it would make sense to not use his kill when someone else was willing to. However, as scum it makes perfect sense because if there is a sword using scum team member, they can use the unbreakable weapon.

This leads me to believe that Xast saw the opportunity to get an unbreakable weapon and that the reason there was no weapon break is because Soup's Falchion was used in the NKs.

Controversially, his town reasoning is weak and he can't use the weapon (unless he dual wields stones and swords which is unlikely based on flavor) so he has to either keep the weapon to himself or if he wants town to be able to utilize an unbreakable weapon, he has to take a risk and give it to someone who he can't be 100% sure of alignment wise. Doesn't make sense.

Thoughts?

Reasonable thoughts at the beginning. Soup is responsible for his own own death more than anyone.

His point regarding us scooping that weapon was not a bad speculation. To answer the question, no, Raz was not in our scumlist. He was right in the middle of the pack for both of us in the hydra. When I say that, I don't mean all null reads. I mean some town reads and some scum reads. He bounced around my list a lot. I mentioned him to Xatres a few times as a potential scum and we couldn't land on anything conclusive and had our attention elsewhere: RR and soup, and pawn to whatever level of energy one can put towards a 2-post player.
When Raz tried to make the shot that fizzled, Xatres made a judgment call based on the odds and guessed that Raz might be scum and if not, scum was likely to shoot soup to bus and we didn't want to see that risk take place. It wasn't necessarily about Raz, although he was proof of the concept: Raz's attempted shot represented how quickly someone could just fire off fast. Which is why we asked Zen to NOT separate yet. Foolish play by him to do so, and he's admitted it in hindsight I think.

Dabuz's respect for intellectual integrity led him to question his own case midstream, mentioning that we of course couldn't wield a lord's sword, and that left some ambiguity in the air.

TOWN read on this post. He was intelligent, looked at both sides of the issue, and still made a case, right or wrong, and then asked for feedback.

My read on him before was something along the lines of: Fine with him but not liking how safe he's playing. That didn't really change for me until the kill.

Responds to a question regarding why his stance on us changed. He responded rationally. NULL read on this.

Yes.

simply states that he has a scum read on me.

Never blatantly stated it but i'm implying it here. He was trying to play a lot based on statistics and wasn't pushing on deductive reasoning but because I was fine with his slot I just wanted to see where his mind was at without the safety of all the numbers stuff.

Good thoughts. Townie type thoughts.

**********************************************

All in all, I'll say my overall read on dabuz is likely town. I like his critical thinking, his willingness to post good thoughts no one has posted yet, but refusal to LOCK IN hard on those thoughts when there was still ambiguity about how to read them. Yes, he landed seemingly on a scum-read on me, and that's fine. We should all have reads that have reasons, and he mentioned his. Not strongly, but passively, he mentioned his reasons for his read.
I'm just seeing a somewhat lurky (but fits his meta according to you all) townie.

 

[Xivii]

Hmm.

What did he say day 1?

What you mean his read on Xast through D1? Scummy.
http://smashboards.com/search/180974/

(so much easier than going through and quoting, thank you whoever mentioned the search bar. Didn't know it could be used for individual threads.)

 

[Kantrip]

Sokr's read on Xastrn wavered actually. He had a phase D1 where he thought he was scum, and a phase in D1 where he thought he was town.

 

[Xivii]

Sokr's read on Xastrn wavered actually. He had a phase D1 where he thought he was scum, and a phase in D1 where he thought he was town.

You posted something a bit ago saying that it's gone from town, scum, town right? Can you show where it was town? The first time he even mentioned the possibility of Xast town was when FML asked if he would shoot (as I recall).

 

[Kantrip]

My bad, he says he sees town doing the same things he is doing and changes his read to null. I don't think he ever actually has a full-on townread on Xast.

http://smashboards.com/threads/fire...hot-from-the-dark.341650/page-8#post-15944844

 

[Xivii]

Definitely makes me less weary.

 

[Xastrn]

For someone who so doesn't want Xastrn dead, you really aren't trying hard to stop it, nor do I really see you pursuing your own scumreads.

- - -

Even early on, with Kary's interaction with soup, he went on after the huge distraction to conclude "soup might be scum." No commitment to a read, even after all that arguing.

Now, with Xastrn, I see Kary spending a lot of his time bickering with a Xastrn who thinks he is scum, yet he holds on to a townread on Xastrn. However, he isn't making an active effort to try to get people to see what he's seeing, and is instead seeming indifferent to the fact that Xastrn is very close to being shot.

From what I'm gathering from you all, Kary does this whole bickering and tunneling thing sometimes and gets ANGRY ALL CAPS ZAAAAARG sometimes when he's town. Yeah, it was dumb, and wasted everyone's time, and I should have disengaged from the argument sooner. But apparently that's not a scummy kary play. I dunno. I'm leaning on others here for meta. Xatres mentioned this to me specifically. It appears that he just hated my play and wanted my death whether he was town or scum. That HAS to be true for at least one person on my back, since there are 3 or 4 piled on at various levels of commitment. Someone was raging and funneling and was still town. It could be Kary or RR or EITHER. I dunno.

I find that Kary's scumread on Zen, who claimed his Even Rhythm Power before Xastrn claimed Odd Rhythm, is very strange. For Xastrn to be town and Zen to be scum, that would mean that Zen would need to have Xastrn's exact role counterpart as a safe-claim. I know Kary is considering this because he just answered to me that he thinks that could be the case. Otherwise, how would scum-Zen know the caveats of town-Xastrn's role, that he had not claimed yet?

This is baffling to me too. Anyone should see that the role Zen and I are claiming is OP broken metaknight and beyond in the hands of scum, as we could skip every other day for the win. I can't see how you can separate Zen and I into two different teams. I'm so confident he's town because I'm REALLY sure I read my role PM accurately! I know I'm town, and I can't IMAGINE how he could be scum if I'm town. You'd have to believe I'm lying about my role and my breadcrumbing all day was fake and zen made up the nolynch part of our role and I still lied along even though I'm town....super sketchy. We're either both town or both scum. Get used to it guys.

Kary has been asking a lot of questions without follow-up and has been neglecting to pursue his scumreads. I've seen a lot of posts from Kary asking questions to a lot of different slots, but I haven't seen him do anything with their responses (or lack thereof). He doesn't have any solid reads to show for all his "effort", which concerns me.

While I am guilty of doing the same thing, Kary's dwelling on how he knew soup was town after soup's death is indeed scummy, there's no denying that. I fear that Kary is remaining complacent regarding Xastrn's death while keeping a townread on them, just so that he can do this again toMorrow if Xastrn flips town.

These are good thoughts, and xatres and I have discussed them. I may have mentioned these thoughts to FML in private too. I can't remember.

My problem with Kary, put simply, is not what he's doing. It's what he's getting out of what he's doing.

I liked his page 1 interaction with soup. It looked TvT to me as an outsider as it reminded me of arguments I have had with soup when we were both town.
I didn't like how Kary didn't even get a read on soup out of all of that, and it became a pointless argument that was a distraction and a waste of space/time.

I like how he's asking lots of people questions.
I don't like how he's not following up on these questions, nor is he getting any solid reads out of them.

I like how he's active.
I don't like how, despite his activity, we don't really know what his stances are because they're so weak or, in some cases, non-existent.

I like how he's been calling Xastrn out on all his bull****, and how I agree with almost everything he says when arguing with Xastrn.
I don't like how he maintains a townread on Xastrn in spite of all this arguing, yet doesn't push this townread, seeming neutral to Xastrn dying.

I saw TvT in that page 1 and 2 argument as well.
I feel the same on point two. He should be following up more on questions. I think he's still recovering and catching his breathe from trying to chase me all day on Saturday. I'm just too fast!
I agree on point 3.

I disagree on point 4, naturally. I don't think my posts toDay have been BS, and I don't see how you can agree with him on nothing, since he didn't really make any case that had any meat behind it, just like you said. He was being active, but there was no substance there. There was nothing to agree with, essentially, except for your read that we were scummy, which he doesn't believe any more anyways.

I can understand why he'd be neutral on me dying toDay. My slot has been a frustrating one for some players who dislike mechanics discussions, and mechanical play that is pretty rote and standard, when the meta here has seemed to have fallen apart into everyone thinking they are a hero or have godlike read capabilities. Mafia here has become the following:

LOOK INTO MY EYES. I CAN TELL IF YOU'RE SCUM IF YOU JUST LET ME LOOK INTO YOUR EYES.

Being neutral on me dying is understandable. It's just not rational. We have to bank on our kill toDay. I believe that we are lost if we mislynch toDay. We will likely be down 5 or 6 townies with no scum caught. Kary should feel unsafe right now. If I get lynched and flip town, he's getting hit hard D3. Him and RR, and to a different extent and for a different reason FML. (I'll get to that tomorrow. good lord I'm tired. and there's too many posts to make.) If Kary is town, he has to know that a mislynch toDay probably means another mislynch D3...and we're done. He should be really wary to shoot, which he is. But he should feel very strongly that we shouldn't shoot fast. And NO ONE except scum should be willing to just take a shot and hope for the best.

We've been described as too pro-town to be town, too strong to be scum, too weak to be town, too mechanical to be scum, so mechanical we must be town, etc. Everyone has had all these big ideas centered primarily around ME. I'll be honest: I NEVER wanted to be in the front of this game.

I have had a consistent scumread on Xastrn all game, and it's gotten stronger and stronger over time, rather than faltering. That said, I could be tunneling on someone who is just super mechanical town. My problems with Kary are a legitimate concern, even though I've liked everything he has had to say all game.

Sokr, either switch or separate. I want to be in front.

Yes, sir. you are tunneling on someone super mechanical. This is how I play other games too. Ask a broomer. I'm notorious for a spreadsheet in a broom game. I was even scum that game and I still had this master spreadsheet about if we kill so and so and use this ability on so and so, what are the results....It's been a joke back there for like 3 years now.

 

[Xastrn]

If anyone has anything else they need from me, I'll try to reply in the late morning. Otherwise, I hope you guys play smart and move slow. I'll have a LOT more to say by the end of Monday.

 

[Kantrip]

Beaststones, why?????

Are you capable of using Stones

and your weapon is called Beaststone?

 

[Xivii]

Are you capable of using Stones

and your weapon is called Beaststone?

I'm only capable of using beaststones and yes it is called beaststone.

 

[Sokr]

Xastrn, I'm still unclear as to why you think you and Zen have to be on the same team. I know you addressed it but I didn't follow. Why can't one of you be town and the other a safe claim? Keep in mind that if one of you has the safe claim, that person won't necessarily have the even or odd day shenanigans. They'd merely be claiming to have that. Zen, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well.

Potassium, I'll get to your case on Kary either today or tomorrow. Depends on if I fall asleep or not.