Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What is the difference between you supporting your read on Hipster Samurai based on a feel and Gord's feel on you?

Quite simple.

You can't start pressure on someone based on a feel. You can use it to look into why you have a scum feel on that person, but ultimately, if you can't back a scum feeling up with evidence, it's not going to do anything.

Seeing someone as town, however, is more personal. It's true; you can't defend someone who is town with just a feeling, but you can think he's town because just a feeling.

So what it comes down to is
Kuz asked me why I think Hippie is town, I say a feeling. My justification for thinking he's town. I don't have to pursue others with my feeling.

Gorf pressures me, and when he's asked why he thinks I'm scum, he says a feeling. A feeling is only personal justification. You can't pursue others with your feeling.

Bear with me if it's unclear.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If you have a scumfeel on someone, you usually scour their posts for where it comes from to see if it holds merit and to see if you caught scum.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Seriously Gorf you have 3 pages of posts in this thread when I search for you so I'll get to you later. I've got a deadline to catch for now.

 

[July]

Quite simple.

You can't start pressure on someone based on a feel. You can use it to look into why you have a scum feel on that person, but ultimately, if you can't back a scum feeling up with evidence, it's not going to do anything.

Seeing someone as town, however, is more personal. It's true; you can't defend someone who is town with just a feeling, but you can think he's town because just a feeling.

So what it comes down to is
Kuz asked me why I think Hippie is town, I say a feeling. My justification for thinking he's town. I don't have to pursue others with my feeling.

Gorf pressures me, and when he's asked why he thinks I'm scum, he says a feeling. A feeling is only personal justification. You can't pursue others with your feeling.

Bear with me if it's unclear.

No that's very clear, thank you.

 

[Rajam]

Up to post #200

Up to this point is hard to determine who is more useless; kuz or Hispter. kuz is sorta scummy and not doing much, and Hipster reacts super-defensive to anything, and I agree with July that he isn't giving much connections because... he just focus on himself

Seriously I'm reading this and I'm just like...

wtf

Did you even SEE this playerlist? The only people that would work on would be Joey, Soup and [July/Rajam/Circus/DarkHouse]. Those last 4 cuz I know jack about them.

Also hi I'm European.
Maybe you know me better as Xonar.

You still have 6 people there, which, excluding yourself, is half the roster... Anyways, what kind of special info do you expect to find in a scum role pm that could lead to anything? What did you want to see regarding DH?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Is it that hard?

DH got the nightkill options wrong.
Why in the lord's holy name and soul and heart and spirit and stuff would a SCUM get the SCUM actions wrong? I wanted to see the PM to see if his action is classified as an "incap" or a "night kill" (or something along those lines). Would it be "night kill", then it's less significant. If it said "incap" then I could basically give DH the town pass without any thought.

See, I usually HATE having to spell these things out. Seriously, jeez, think for yourself.

 

[Rajam]

Up to #240

Ryker, I like Kuz more in the Kuz v Ryker because you're basically saying his logic is really flawed and you're getting on him for that, but I liked the logic and agreed with it.

Besides the logic side of it, though, Kuz really isn't giving any evidence behind his stances, like when he said "for reasons already stated" even though the only reasoning he has is "Hipster is scum because he is"... o_O. Yeah... I think I was wrong on choosing the Kuz side of this XD.

So are you going to waste all of D1 with wishy washy stances or are you going to man up and give some scum reads this game?

lmao Dooms needs more votes

I'm not being vague. Ryker totally picked up on it.

Also, I'm far from an everyone pleaser. I promised Ryker I would buy his reads with an action thus I voted Gorf. Besides that, I don't like Gorf, so I guess I'm okay with it.

That said...

Bad fake distancing to give the impression that he's trying to distance while he's actually just pretending to distance?

How'd that be? you haven't explained why you didn't like Gorf before iirc

Also @ the picture: what kind of explanation is that for taking away a posture? You're trying to make it seem like it's not a big deal to plain lie on a read. I don't like it. Explain your real read on Ryker and why did you lie on the 1st place

Why are you basing a scum read on a player based on your own meta? That's a fallacy and you should know better. With the other arguments taking place before this post I'm surprised you only felt the need to focus on Xonar. What Xonar did is null and should be treated as such.

So tell me, Ryker, why do you find Gorf scummy? Is it because he doesn't agree with how you're going about things or is it because you think he's my scummate trying to defend me. Either way, this vote is gross. Its clear that Gorf is implying he thinks you're incorrect town while trying to jerk a connection based scum read when you don't even know my alignment is the definition of flimsy. If you actually want to make a convincing argument, come back with something based on Gorf's actual play, which hasn't been scummy.

So, why don't you tell us who is scum instead of commenting on who's null and/or town?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Been distracting myself. Smash tonight. I close at work tomorrow. I will try and find time to play laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate tonight or at some point tomorrow. Leave whatever needs to be addressed after this post to ensure it is addressed.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is day 1.2 Vote Count (7/13) Deadline is December 13th 11:59PM CST

1. th3kuzinator [0]
2. brosuke [2] JO_OEY, Gorf,
3. Raziek [0]
4. Ryker [0]
5. JO_OEY [1] Rajam,
6. Gorf [1] Ryker,
7. KevinM [1] Brosuke,
8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01) [0]
9. July [2] Hipster Samurai, th3kuzinator,
10. Rajam [0]
11. Circus [2] KevinM, Soupamario,
12. Dark_Horse [0]
13. Soupamario [0]

~

Incap count (most votes)

Th3Kuzinator [4] July, KevinM, Gorf, Circus
Hipster Samurai [5] Dark Horse, Hipster Samurai, Ryker, Brosuke, Soupamario,

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

...

Damn it Bro you really did respond to, like, holycrapwhattheeff... I mean, I guess it's time to respond... Here we go...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't see how I have been weak at all. Could you elaborate?

Well, in that situation alone, your stance was calling Hipster town off of a feeling. When asked about it, you said that his play was just not like how scum would play (which you've STILL yet to justify). And then, you flip flopped onto another subject that I can't quite remember, I think it may have been Circus town (which in and of itself is a ridiculous stance, seeing how he was just about nonexistant)? That is just an example of how you've seemed to be operating this entire game. Make a statment, brush it off, throw another one into left field, and it seems like that statment from left field is to distract from the original.

I don't see this as incriminating.

Would a scum whom heavily discussed who to incap forget half of one of the best players in the game?

You don't really believe this statment to be the reason he's town... do you? Cuz if that's true than KevM saying he forgot Soup was in the game (I'm not looking it up, I just know it's somewhere in this thread) clears his name... Correct? I mean, same logic amirite?... OH WAIT THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It's such a drag reading Hipster v July cuz it's just so long... Yea I know I'm whining but it's 1:30 AM and I just saw The Sitter and came home kinda disappointed.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

As far as your 400 goes:

Although I disagree with a fair amount of the stuff you're saying wrt KevM scum, I'll let em get to that. I can see where you're coming from with the response, and that post alone def. seems more townie than what the rest of your play feels like.

Although I DO agree with this:

This is kinda off to me. Asking who Dark House would incap? That's not hunting for scum. It just seems aimless. What's gonna grow out of this?

I'll unvote for now, but IstillGMEOY mang.

What do you think of what Rajam has on Dooms?

 

[Circus]

We should probably let HipSam die toDay.

Ryker, why do you like HipSam better than Kuz? Like, gimma a pro and con list for 'em or something.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

...

Damn it Bro you really did respond to, like, holycrapwhattheeff... I mean, I guess it's time to respond... Here we go...

You know me baby. Gotta do what you gotta do.

Well, in that situation alone, your stance was calling Hipster town off of a feeling. When asked about it, you said that his play was just not like how scum would play (which you've STILL yet to justify). And then, you flip flopped onto another subject that I can't quite remember, I think it may have been Circus town (which in and of itself is a ridiculous stance, seeing how he was just about nonexistant)? That is just an example of how you've seemed to be operating this entire game. Make a statment, brush it off, throw another one into left field, and it seems like that statment from left field is to distract from the original.

Have you seen my post regarding feelings? I honestly can't just pinpoint what seems town in his posts to me, I'm just saying that the way he's asking questions, scumhunting and posting in general seems like a towny trying to contribute, help and find scum.
Anyways, on the overall point you're making here, I can see where you're coming from, but you should know, even though it didn't pan out like it so far, I prefer to keep my information outside of mafia's grasp.

When it comes down to it, though, I'll give you my stuff on my 'original' statement AND on my 'left field' statement.

You don't really believe this statment to be the reason he's town... do you? Cuz if that's true than KevM saying he forgot Soup was in the game (I'm not looking it up, I just know it's somewhere in this thread) clears his name... Correct? I mean, same logic amirite?... OH WAIT THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

I don't agree with the comparison. I'll possibly look into him some more, though.

What do you think of what Rajam has on Dooms?

I feel like he's making lemonade with a 1 inch lemon. It's tunneling quite hard, but I wanna know what comes out of it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

We should probably let HipSam die toDay.

Ryker, why do you like HipSam better than Kuz? Like, gimma a pro and con list for 'em or something.

Hey man why don't you do this for us?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@brosuke: Why would you reveal your gambit? You seemed to reveal it almost immediatley after being questioned.

On another note, I decided to do an ISO on joey, and...Jesus christ.
[COLLAPSE="[quote="Dooms, post: 13765447"]I have no idea how it works, but Kuz is a bro for life so my vote will probably be going to him :3c.[/QUOTE]

Claims that he will go with kuz. Somewhat understandable, as this is very early on in the game.

If one of the people that is uncap'd is scummy, then we can only lynch them.

If neither of them are, then we should vote someone else that is scummy to go with the person that doesn't get uncap'd.

Those are just my obvious (very obvious) thoughts, though haha.

Giving out advice. Notice how he does nothing to enforce this, just... "Throws it out"

I like Kuz more in Kuz v Ryker.

Lack of any explanation whatsoever, unless you count his first post.

Is this a joke, or am I missing something with the term "incapped" or "uncapped"...?

Just commenting on what incapped/uncapped means.

Gord you will always be my leader .

Says he will follow gorf. No explanation given.

You're an idiot.

See below

(That was a joke post saying that I was about to catch up if you couldn't tell.)

Confirms that both this post and the last are completley useless. the "showing that it is about to catch up" part doesn't add up, either.

Why did you rush this? >.>'

Oh, so you did it on purpose?

(Sorry, it's 12:45 and this stuff is EVEN LESS obvious to me when it's 12:45 am.)

Isn't that a contradiction with what you said with the math analogy?

o_O'.

All of these are questions about gord's instastance. I'll give him credit, this one actually seems like h's half-contributing

I like Kuz more than Ryker. I didn't realize that KevinM v Ryker was a thing, but I like KevinM. I like Ryker in Ryker vs Gordito, though.

I'll elaborate on re-read.

No stances given again.

Too early in the game for me to tell you that. I'll tell you after D1 is over.

Claims to do well after day one, which shows scum trying to survive.

Ryker, I like Kuz more in the Kuz v Ryker because you're basically saying his logic is really flawed and you're getting on him for that, but I liked the logic and agreed with it.

Besides the logic side of it, though, Kuz really isn't giving any evidence behind his stances, like when he said "for reasons already stated" even though the only reasoning he has is "Hipster is scum because he is"... o_O. Yeah... I think I was wrong on choosing the Kuz side of this XD.

Extremley wishy-washy post. Starts of with liking kuz, then says that he doesn't like kuz

Vote: Brosuke

Uhhhhhhh no.

That vote was awful ._.'!

No explanation

I don't see any reasoning behind his KevinM vote, and it honestly just looks like a worthless OMGUS vote.

I was also confused as to why he chose Kuz, but after he explained that, it isn't bothering me anymore.

I didn't like his conversation with Kuz, either. I don't see any reason that a townie would out right lie about their stances in a TvS/TvT/SvS situation.

I'd post more, but I'm at a library and preferring to do other things than play mafia .

The only bit of explanation we get from joey.

This post alone has made me want to re-read.

I'll have analysis of some people today/tomorrow. I need to catchup and re-read everything.

Doesn't explain how that post made him reread.[/COLLAPSE]

When you take a good look at it, joey is almost certainly scum. He has almost never explained his stance (he has only once), Has kept his opinion of someone throughout the day with almost little to no reasons, he has posted fluff on several occasions, and he has barley been here at all.

As such,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eobuu-IexvI

Unvote, Vote: Joey

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

@brosuke: Why would you reveal your gambit? You seemed to reveal it almost immediatley after being questioned.

Keeping the gambit going would net me jacksh.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Now that I just realized that we have 2 days until the deadline, I feel like I have to bring up (again), why we need to lynch and uncap.

Like I mentioned before, and especially after day 1, not lynching gives mafia control of all the kills. Mafia will have enough information to determine who they think can die and who they think will live. Sure, less people might die, but in the long run, more townies will be dead if we give up our lynches.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

We should probably let HipSam die toDay.

Ryker, why do you like HipSam better than Kuz? Like, gimma a pro and con list for 'em or something.

Terrible post.

Letting me die is an atrocious idea.
Keeping Kuz alive at the expense of us is an even more atrocious idea.

You also make a very solid lynch - cavalier attitude will not make up for the lack of everything you're providing.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Xonar, the way you're trivializing the tells you've been giving as "misunderstandings" is pretty misleading. Apparently everything you've been inconsistent about has either been a "misunderstanding", a "gambit" or "already resolved". Only, from an objective point of view it would be very, very generic to let that slide. Especially when you add pictures that say things like "I lied" into your posts it's really hard to believe that it's an actual misunderstanding. You're trying to make things look as if you did them on purpose with your open implications of lying and playing gambits to make them look less suspicious. That's quite the opposite of a "misunderstanding" unless you caused it on purpose which would still be quite a suspicious thing to do.

If it was a failure in communication why do you try to brush off things as intentional trickery?
If you lied and played gambits on purpose why are you saying there was a misunderstanding?

Something doesn't add up here.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Only, from an objective point of view it would be very, very generic to let that slide.

Silly typo here. It's meant to say "generous" instead of "generic".

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Something doesn't add up here.

You tell me.

I honestly think you're reaching here. Give me something to work with because this isn't anything I can respond to.

If it was a failure in communication why do you try to brush off things as intentional trickery?

Because the intent and purpose of it is misunderstood (by DH in this case). I honestly don't see what a scum would have to gain, you tell me.

If you lied and played gambits on purpose why are you saying there was a misunderstanding?

See above.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm calling BS on that one.

Between your original post, and your EBWOP, july had made no change.

This for example is pure misunderstanding.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@brosuke: Why would you reveal your gambit? You seemed to reveal it almost immediatley after being questioned.

On another note, I decided to do an ISO on joey, and...Jesus christ.
[COLLAPSE="

Claims that he will go with kuz. Somewhat understandable, as this is very early on in the game.



Giving out advice. Notice how he does nothing to enforce this, just... "Throws it out"



Lack of any explanation whatsoever, unless you count his first post.



Just commenting on what incapped/uncapped means.



Says he will follow gorf. No explanation given.



See below



Confirms that both this post and the last are completley useless. the "showing that it is about to catch up" part doesn't add up, either.









All of these are questions about gord's instastance. I'll give him credit, this one actually seems like h's half-contributing



No stances given again.



Claims to do well after day one, which shows scum trying to survive.



Extremley wishy-washy post. Starts of with liking kuz, then says that he doesn't like kuz



No explanation



The only bit of explanation we get from joey.



Doesn't explain how that post made him reread.[/COLLAPSE]

When you take a good look at it, joey is almost certainly scum. He has almost never explained his stance (he has only once), Has kept his opinion of someone throughout the day with almost little to no reasons, he has posted fluff on several occasions, and he has barley been here at all.

As such,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eobuu-IexvI

Unvote, Vote: Joey

Ehh, this is kind of reaching in certain places mang. I don't disagree that joey's been pretty scummy, but there's just a lotta bad points in here ._.

But DH DOES make a point: the deadline's creeping up on us. I'm fine with lynching any of Brosuke/Joey/inactives atm.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Gorf stance on KeviM.

Kuz what about July?

Gorf, while you're at that, make your vote useful.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

@mod

Add a "not voting" thing please

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sure also will be prodding people since some might need it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gorf stance on KeviM.

His play is weird to me. Although I dont like where his vote is, or much of what hes doing, i cant see scum being as observant of some of the shiz he has (regardless of my opinion on what hes observed). If KevM was scum, id think itd be way safer for him to, for example, voice a side in kuz v ryker upon opening. But he def hasnt been helpful. Id be fine lynching em to avoidML. Will explain more if necessary when i get to a computer.

 

[Circus]

Hey man why don't you do this for us?

Nah, not until Ryker talks to me about it at least. I want to see him defend HipSam.

Vote: Ryker

Come out and play, champ.

Terrible post.

Letting me die is an atrocious idea.
Keeping Kuz alive at the expense of us is an even more atrocious idea.

Do I infer correctly from this language that you think Kuz is scum?

You also make a very solid lynch - cavalier attitude will not make up for the lack of everything you're providing.

I would make a "very solid" lynch due to how little content I've provided? So you're not hunting for real scum then, huh?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Not gonna let you get away with that today, Circus.

Give us stances, connections; something concrete.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Unsure who i want to lynch now, mulling HipSam and mulling Jerkus.

 

[Dooms]

Oh crap this game.

I'll have something up before deadline if I'm not dead lol.

 

[Dooms]

By the way:

 

[Dooms]

There was supposed to be a image like this:

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Joey I'm going to hate being on your wagon but if you don't shape up I'm gonna have to lynch ya mang

 

[Circus]

Unsure who i want to lynch now, mulling HipSam and mulling Jerkus.

Just let HipSam die if that's the way you're leaning.

Not gonna let you get away with that today, Circus.

Give us stances, connections; something concrete.

Here's some stances.

Ryker's suspicion of Gorf was bull**** and KevinM's suspicion of me was bull****. From my point of view, looks like faked content and stances from both of 'em. With that said, aside from me being wary of both of them, they have nothing in common. But I could see either of them go toDay.

HipSam's looking for any scapegoat he can possibly find. How this isn't totally transparent to everyone is beyond me. Why does anyone want to uncap him? I'm particularly curious to read what Ryker has to say about it.

I've got leaning town reads on you, July, Gorf, Soup, and D. Horse.

Wouldn't mind a Joey lynch either.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Vote someone who's not V/LA.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Or keep your vote on Ryker if you really want him dead but I'd disapprove.

 

[Circus]

Ryker's 408 doesn't suggest to me that he's currently V/LA. Just rather busy. ****, if that counts as V/LA, then I've been V/LA since the game started.